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Theme Changer

 Topic: Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"

 (Read 283283 times)
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  • Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1380 - September 04, 2014, 08:12 AM

    And therein lies the problem Yeez.

    The Theistic God is posited as being eternal. Monotheists will not grant the idea that their God could have been brought into existence. In asking a Muslim,Christian or Jew to explain what caused their God, you are misunderstanding their position.

    http://commonsenseatheism.com/?p=6113

    I know there is a problem and that is fine with me as long as   That eternal bacterial viral meme god of their brain doesn't put out these social/economical/political rules to human race but they just go round and around that statement  "Everything which begins to exist has a cause of its existence."

     They can spend their fucking boring life around that silly statement  AS LONG AS THEY BURN ALL OOOOLLD STUPPID RELIGIOUS BOOKS  and start with new book new hypothesis and new inquiry

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1381 - September 04, 2014, 08:24 AM

    Cheesy
    perfect

    My mind runs, I can never catch it even if I get a head start.
  • Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1382 - September 04, 2014, 08:31 AM

    Cheesy
    perfect

     Cheesy Yap mock them and move on..  RASCALS ..

    You know I  am reading a fascinating book by  Dr. Lisa Randall.. "Warped.  Passages unraveling the mysteries of the universes hidden dimensions"    interesting book. you should read it if you get a chance..


    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1383 - September 04, 2014, 08:39 AM

    Will do, this is also a fascinating book : http://www.amazon.co.uk/Prisoners-Dilemma-Neumann-Theory-Puzzle/dp/038541580X

    My mind runs, I can never catch it even if I get a head start.
  • Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1384 - September 04, 2014, 08:42 AM

    "Wrapped Passages unraveling the mysteries of the universes hidden dimensions"    interesting book. you should read it if you get a chance..


    Did you mean warped instead of wrapped?

    My mind runs, I can never catch it even if I get a head start.
  • Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1385 - September 04, 2014, 08:44 AM

    Did you mean warped instead of wrapped?

    yes you are right it is warped....

      Hmmm that "wrapped passages " is perfect  in describing  religious books  and the silly statements in them...

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1386 - September 04, 2014, 05:10 PM

    Quote
    ***

    If faith in God is lost then the whole edifice comes crashing down. Gone is hope, dreams, angels, prophets & paradise and instead the stark reality of our condition and mortality becomes painfully clear and this is something man doesn't want to face. So the believer has a strong incentive to cling on to faith in God. He doesn't want to die, so he creates the idea that death is simply a door to a new life - the real life. That although this life is temporary, the next life is everlasting. This life is full of pain, struggle and suffering, but the next life is full of pleasure, joy and happiness. It is a concept that has become deeply embedded in the human psyche.

    So he will use every means possible to preserve that which guarantees him immortality. Performing mental gymnastics to "prove" whatever is necessary to ensure his everlasting happiness. Blame himself and his own shortcomings if something doesn't make sense, rather than question his beliefs.

    I have to admit that I do pity him and I am hesitant to take away that comfort blanket from his tight grip, when it makes him happy. But at the same time I fear the damage it does in dulling and paralysing his faculties.

    Perhaps we should leave people in their delusions. Perhaps it is impossible to completely free them from myths. They serve a purpose. Since God is the greatest of these delusions then it is from faith in him that people derive the greatest pleasure. The believers fight with the "Sword of God" and no matter how many times they are defeated, humiliated and crushed they will not stop believing that God will bring them victory. If not in this world, then in the next.

    Some people seem to think that those of us who doubt God's existence, do so simply on the basis that we can't see him. They point out that there are innumerable things one can't see but we know they exist, such as radio waves, sound waves, ultraviolet light, micro organisms, etc… Men of religion mock when someone says he disbelieves in God because sees no evidence for him, and reply sarcastically: "Then you don't believe in Hong Kong because you can't see it."

    But disbelief in God has nothing to do with such a ridiculously simplistic level of understanding. We doubt God's existence because no-one can verify that he exists. We don't need to see Hong Kong or radio waves or micro-organisms to know they exist because others have seen them and studied them and tested them and verified them from multiple sources. If I am ever in doubt about their existence I can conduct my own scientific experiments to verify them myself. I can visit Hong Kong if I suspect global conspiracy to hide the fact that Hong Kong doesn't exist. However when it comes to God you cannot find one witness in the whole world who has seen or spoken to God. You cannot find one single scientist who has scientifically established God's existence. Nor can you verify these claims yourself, either by travelling to a place to meet God, or by conducting your own experiments to establish his existence. Furthermore you see in the world around you a world that runs by itself with no interference or intervention.

    ***

    "Can there be doubt about God, the creator of the heavens and the earth?" (14:10)

    Yes there can! And not just one doubt but many doubts. How great are the doubts about him - Most High is He!

    They claim that there is no "doubt" about the existence of God. That belief in the "One True God" is a natural instinct; "Fitrah", humanity's natural disposition which God has created us with. But if that were true then why have religious scholars down the ages toiled and laboured to produce libraries full of arguments trying to establish that God exists? Why have they not written volumes about the existence of the sun? Mankind has never declared war against or persecuted or committed atrocities upon those who deny the existence of the sun. If God's existence was "without doubt" as they claim, then why the need for arguments, proofs and evidences? That which is "without doubt" has no need for these things. One only needs to present arguments and proofs where there is doubt. That which has no doubt is not in need of proof.

    Yes, man has a tendancy and need for a crutch. These feelings increase in times of crisis and insecurity. The desire for a crutch reveals an inner psychological need. It reflects an underlying existential crisis that human beings have at one time or another experienced ever since they became self-aware beings and began to think beyond the mechanics of survival. When they started to think in the abstract and pose questions about their existence.

    All this is not evidence of a God, nor is it evidence of the need for a God. It is merely the reality of our evolution. God is a reduntant addition invented by man during his evolution as he developed the capacity for introspection and abstract thinking - in a world that was dangerous and frightening - where he sought help to survive in anyway he can. Appealing to the forces or spirits in nature. To gods that were more powerful than the gods of a hostile tribe. To a God who was bigger & stronger than them all! It is a concept we have become deeply emotionally attached to and find impossible to let go of. It is a refuge for the poor, weak, destitute and deprived who are powerless and so seek a powerful gaurdian full of love, care and affection, who will right the wrongs, bring justice, security & peace. But when they find he doesn't bring anything except more suffering, they do not leave him, no, they blame themselves and increase their devotion and give each other the "good news" of the reward to to come that shall be all the greater for their suffering.

    It never occurs to them that there is no-one listening to their prayers. That this God they are asking for help is their own invention. Born out of their despair and loss of hope in the bitter reality that they find themselves in. They live in a waking dream. The dream of Paradise which contains that which no eye has seen nor ear has heard nor has occured to the mind of man. The Houris will come running to meet them and welcome them in to their palace in heaven where servants will fulfil every command. A beautiful illusion and an when an illusion embeds itself into the mind it can be so sweet, so powerful, that it replaces reality.

    ***



    Oh boy!   that book must sound better in Arabic language ..  Each statement is a Gem..    But I disagree with author on these words..
    Quote
    Gone is hope,..................... when god is gone from their brain


    Why hope is gone when god is gone??  ..... No..No.. there should be more hope in home.. more dreams.. better things to do in life than bending ass up in to sky..

    Quote
    Perhaps we should leave people in their delusions............

      
    No..no I will not leave them to their delusions..

    I want  to use them.. I want to use their time that they waste in delusions..   They can keep their god thing.. allah thing whatever thing and start with their new religious  book ., But I want to erase all these stupid 1000 year old  books  written by  some  cave dwellers  whose level of intellect is less than that of  2nd grader  in this  21 st century...

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1387 - September 04, 2014, 05:59 PM

    But I disagree with author on these words..
    Why hope is gone when god is gone??  ..... No..No.. there should be more hope in home.. more dreams.. better things to do in life than bending ass up in to sky..


    He's echoing the believers perspective, Yeezy. He has made it clear in several places that he believes religion should be discarded.

    No..no I will not leave them to their delusions..


    Again, his book is clearly all about shattering those delusions Wink
  • Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1388 - September 06, 2014, 12:44 PM

    Ohffff look at these gems from that book..
    " I have no problem with anyone who says they believe in God - so long as they don't try to claim it is more than just a belief. " ........... If you were to say to me that the existence of the universe leads you to believe there is a creator - I will not argue with you. That is your right. I have no problem with that."....

    ........... As Voltaire said: "Doubt is an uncomfortable position, but certainty is an absurd one.” ......

    "Underlying everything man does is a survival instinct. It helped his species endure against all odds in cruel and brutal environments. A survival instinct does not have the ability to weigh up long term pros and cons of a particular course of action, it must act immediately and snatch whatever tools are at hand, to ensure survival. This survival instinct found belief God a useful psychological coping tool. What are heaven and Houris other than just comforting consolations for this wretched, tragic creature called man?"


    ......................Would that I knew what existence is? Does existence even have a meaning? But this question cannot be answered. It is a mystery and will remain a mystery. The playground is known, but the player is unknown. The game is a competition between the known and unknown. ..................

    ........

     Damn   those words of that book/translation are as good as that of "God Delusion" without knowing/ going in to Science

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1389 - September 06, 2014, 01:26 PM

    Once again thanks for translating this abu ali.

    When I eventually come out I will recommend this to every muslim who wants to know why I left Islam and wants to understand my position.


    Once this book gains popularity it's going to start shattering the beliefs of so many muslims. And thats not even an exaggeration.



    In my opinion a life without curiosity is not a life worth living
  • Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1390 - September 06, 2014, 01:48 PM

    What marks it out as being an important book imho is:

    1.  That it comes from an Arab

    2. And an ex-Muslium - rather than Arab Christians etc...

    3. That it treats the Qur'an as human literature

    4. It is written in a fairly sympathetic way - at least he comes across as an insider, someone who was once a devout Muslim, rather than an outsider just bashing Muslims.

    It's drawback is only one - but it will be the one it will get hammered for by Muslims - the author is unknown!

  • Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1391 - September 06, 2014, 02:33 PM

    Quote
    Just trying to think about if there is a backlash lol - which if it does get circulated widely is quite possible.

     

    Well if there is backlash, we got your back shaykh !    Afro


    In my opinion a life without curiosity is not a life worth living
  • Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1392 - September 07, 2014, 06:40 AM

    "It's drawback is only one - but it will be the one it will get hammered for by Muslims - the author is unknown!"

    It is a reality that an author would remain anonymous, for safety reasons?
  • Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1393 - September 07, 2014, 07:16 AM

    I get that being anonymous when writing an actual academic paper or whatever is an issue, but in all honesty what does it matter if the author is anonymous in this case. It doesn't affect the content the least, so what is there to be hammered? So if the author had put his name Ahmad bin Ahmad, what difference would there have been if the person wasn't already known from the beginning? Using pseudonyms isn't unusual among authors.

    "The healthiest people I know are those who are the first to label themselves fucked up." - three
  • Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1394 - September 07, 2014, 11:40 AM

    If this gets popularity you can bet your balls that iERA will try to write some sort of counter attack to it.

    I do think Hamza Tzortzis will fail miserably when trying to counter an argument made by someone knowledgeable about the language.


    In my opinion a life without curiosity is not a life worth living
  • Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1395 - September 07, 2014, 12:02 PM

    What marks it out as being an important book imho is:

    1.  That it comes from an Arab
    2. And an ex-Muslium - rather than Arab Christians etc...
    3. That it treats the Qur'an as human literature

    4. It is written in a fairly sympathetic way - at least he comes across as an insider, someone who was once a devout Muslim, rather than an outsider just bashing Muslims.

    It's drawback is only one - but it will be the one it will get hammered for by Muslims - the author is unknown!

     It is very simple to hammer Abbas Abdul Noor and  Hasan Radwan.,

    ******************/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/***********

    Assalamu alaikum brithers and sister,  and Jazakillah khair just passing by

    Both these  guys  hammer Abbas Abdul Noor and  Hasan Radwan were never Muslims.,  I think they are haters of Islam and probably Coptic Christians disguised as Muslims..    and  these two guys are  nothing but crazy Christians crazy christian liars  finmad

    Allah hoo Akbar..    
    Oh! Allah give some brain to these haters..
    Oh ! allah  make them as believers  ..
    other wise other wise..
    HELL FIRE TO THEM  finmad

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1396 - September 07, 2014, 02:52 PM

    This book is groundbreaking. It says a lot that governments want to ban it. People like Hamza may try to refute it, but that is to be expected.It cuts into his bottom line and the snake oil he is selling, while Abu Ali knows exactly what kind of upheaval this book could cause so he remains humble, cautious, and anonymous.

    Though I do wonder what someone like Usama Hasan might say about it. Call him misguided as you will, but I do at least sense an element of sincerity in his attempts to reinterpret the Quran. I'm no great judge of character, but I would love to hear his take on this book. I doubt it would be as superficial as Hamza and iERA would be.
  • Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1397 - September 07, 2014, 03:24 PM

    Quote
    People like Hamza may try to refute it, but that is to be expected.It cuts into his bottom


    This made me chuckle, before reading the next word!
  • Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1398 - September 07, 2014, 03:35 PM

     Cheesy
  • Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1399 - September 08, 2014, 05:59 PM

    I took a bit of a liberty with this last piece by adding a preamble about Satan. I felt the chapter was missing something as he just dived into looking at verses.

    Since my name is going to be on it, I think I'm allowed a certain discretion.
  • Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1400 - September 08, 2014, 06:02 PM

    I took a bit of a liberty with this last piece by adding a preamble about Satan. I felt the chapter was missing something as he just dived into looking at verses.

    Since my name is going to be on it, I think I'm allowed a certain discretion.


    Could you make it clear that it is a translators commentary in certain parts through the use of colour or what-have-you so that others cannot claim it has been for want of a better term bastardised?
  • Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1401 - September 08, 2014, 06:06 PM

    I took a bit of a liberty with this last piece by adding a preamble about Satan. I felt the chapter was missing something as he just dived into looking at verses.

    Since my name is going to be on it, I think I'm allowed a certain discretion.

    I think it is going to be stellar  book and you being an author/not just a translator, With your life experience and background you should able to slip in few of your own chapters in to the book ..

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1402 - September 08, 2014, 06:13 PM

    Could you make it clear that it is a translators commentary in certain parts through the use of colour or what-have-you so that others cannot claim it has been for want of a better term bastardised?


    Yes, good idea.
  • Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1403 - September 09, 2014, 07:54 AM

    Hey Lily, I've put the "translators note" in italics with a heading at the top - could you check out that last piece I did again and tell me if you think that's OK?
  • Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1404 - September 09, 2014, 07:56 AM

    Or anyone else give me some feed back about it.

    i.e. is the bit I added necessary? Useful? or not needed?
  • Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1405 - September 09, 2014, 08:26 AM

    It is useful Abu, think it provides an introduction to the section in a clearer way instead of just launching in to it.

    One of the most absurd and childish myths found in both Islam & Christianity is that of the evil bogey man doer who misleads, tempts and encourages man to sin.

    Would that be better?

    Chapter 15

    Part 2

    God & Satan: Two Sides of the Same Coin.

    Translators note:
    "We said to the angels: Prostrate to Adam. So they did prostrate except Iblis; he was not of those who prostrated... (Qur'an 7:11-25)

    One of the most absurd and childish myths found in both Islam & Christianity is that of the evil bogey man doer who misleads, tempts and encourages man to sin. This creature who God created and made amongst the most honoured creatures in the holy company. He was present during the theatrical moment when God asked everyone to bow down to man. Satan refused and so God cursed him and sent him away. Though clearly not far enough, because he sneaked back into heaven to tell Adam and Eve to go and eat from the tree that God forbade them from approaching. God then reproaches Adam and Eve and sends them both down to earth, where Satan has promised to lie in wait for them and their children and mislead, tempt and seduce them.

    Now if God knew Satan would turn evil - which he must have - why did he create him? The only answer can be that God intended all this to happen. Nothing can happen unless Allah wills it, nor can it happen if it is not in God's plan. So God wanted him to turn evil and wanted him to sneak around misguiding humans. Satan for his part seems to think he can prove something to God. Which is very odd to say the least, since Satan knows he's dealing with an Omnipotent and Omniscient Being, so therefore he knows he stands absolutely no chance. It is said he wants to take as many of mankind down to Hell with him. But how that would give him satisfaction when he is being eternally tortured is beyond me. It's hard to understand what a supposedly intelligent being who had first hand experience of this omnipotent God was thinking? A bad move indeed. But one that God clearly intended him to make, so he could fulfil his grand plan. Now an impartial observer might say that it is God who is the wicked one here, while Satan is simply a pawn in his game. But far be it for me to suggest such a thing!

    So what is this grand plan? To test man so that believers can be separated from unbelievers. The former to paradise, the latter to Hell. Though this was of course not for God's benefit, because he already knew. It was for our benefit so we can't complain we weren't given a chance. Though if he didn't create the bad people in the first place there would be no need for anyone to complain, so I don't see the purpose of this whole charade? Also if it's true that, Shaytan could still rebel against God even though he was in heaven then couldn't this same problem arise amongst those who go to heaven? Or will God take away their free-will? Or perhaps those in heaven - having been tested here on earth - will be of such a good nature that they will never rebel? If so, couldn't God have spared us this pantomime by creating them that way right from the start? No need for Devils, sin, tempting, burning fire, roasted skins, hooked rods of iron, or vats of boiling oil. Or is God incapable of doing that?

    _____________________________

    When one reads the Qur'an it is hard to avoid the conclusion that Satan is a very necessary character. The villain to God. Someone who can be blamed for evil. It does seem at times if Satan and God are just two sides of the same coin. In fact the Qur'an often applies the same attributes to both God and Satan. For example, misguidance:

    God
    "And God misguides the wrongdoers, and God does whatever he wants." (27:14)
    "God guides who he wants and misleads who he wants." (35:8 )
    "And he who God misguides, he will have no-one to guide him." (13:33)
    "Do you want to guide he who God has misguided." (4:88)


    Iblees
    "Do not follow desires for he (shaytan) will misguide you from the path of God." (38:26)
    "It is written that whomsoever takes him (shaytan) as a friend/helper, then indeed he will misguide him." (22:4)
    "Shaytan wants but to misguide them a far misguidance." (4:60)
    "Indeed he (shaytan) has misguided from amongst you a great multitude can you not use your mind?" (36:62)

    Making bad actions seem good:

    God
    "Those who don't believe in the next life, We have made seem good to them their actions." (27:4)
    "Likewise we made seem good to every nation their deeds." (6:108)

    Iblees
    "And Shaytan has made seem good to them what they used to do." (27:24)
    "He (Iblees) said: 'My Lord, since you have seduced me astray, I will surely make (disobedience) attractive to them on earth, and I will seduce them all astray." (15:39)

    I'm confused? Who is the one who misguides people? Who is the one who makes evil deeds seem good?

    There are other bad attributes that God shares with the Devil. For example in that last verse (15:39) we see that both seduce people astray. Also Fitnah (temptation): "We have certainly tempted those before them." (29:3) - "Oh children of Adam, do not let Shaytan tempt you." (7:26)

    Thus misguidance, making bad seem good, seduction and temptation are all evil attributes shared by God and Iblees, according to the text of the Qur'an. So what is the difference between them? Are they not just two sides of the same coin? God being the good side, while Satan is the bad side.

    If you are in any doubt about that, then take a look at this long verse, and see if you can distinguish between God, Satan, Angels and devils.

    "They followed what the devils recited in the reign of Solomon. Solomon did not disbelieve, but the devils disbelieved, teaching man magic and that which was revealed to the two angels of Babylon, Harut & Marut. They (two) did not teach it to anyone till they had said: We are only a temptation, therefore do not disbelieve. And from these two (angles) people learned that by which they cause division between man and wife; but they can't harm anyone with it, save by Allah's permission. They learn that which harms them and does not profit them. And surely they do know that he who trafficketh therein will have no portion in the Hereafter; and surely evil is the price for which they sell their souls, if they but knew." (2:102)

    Now tell me in truth - Did the devils do anything worse than these two angels? Now as we know the evil devils follow the orders of Satan, while the angels follow command of God - they don't have free will. So to put it another way, has Satan done anything worse than God? God who sent down from heaven these two angels on a special urgent mission with the specific task of teaching people magic. Why? So that they could learn how to split up a man from his wife and learn that which harms them and does not benefit them? If you say it is to test man, then what is the difference between God's testing and Satan's misleading? What makes one bad and the other good?

    Who is the criminal here? The one who practiced magic or the one who incited and induced them to do so, when otherwise they wouldn't have - nay, couldn't have!

    And what is the point of the angels saying: "We are only a temptation, so don't disbelieve." Does it mean they are not in any way responsible for what the people have done? Isn't that just like: "The likeness of Satan when he says to man; 'Disbelieve!' but when man disbelieves, he (Satan) says; 'I am innocent of what you!'" (59:16) What is the ruling on those who spread mischief in the Qur'an? "And do not spread mischief in the land after it has been made good." (7:56)

    Why would the angels teach people magic that can be used to split up a husband from his wife? What was the magic supposed to be used for? Getting the household chores done a bit quicker, like the 'Sorcerers Apprentice.' Couldn't God see it would only end badly? Of course God is omniscient so he knew people would use the magic to split apart couples that he has ordered to be joined, even though that is precisely what he really hates: "Those who… split apart that which God has ordered to be joined, and who spread mischief in the earth, they will be the losers." (2:27) In fact he curses them and will send them to Hell. "Those who… split apart that which God has ordered to be joined, and who spread mischief in the earth, they are the ones who upon them be a curse and for them will be the evil abode." (13:25)

    I am utterly baffled by these verses and don't know how they sneaked into the text of the Qur'an. Even though of course the Mufassirun are able to find limitless meanings to it.

    As for Satan, man created him to help him solve the problem of evil. The problem of a perfectly good God and a world that contains evil. The devil in this case becomes very much the other side of the coin of God. But it doesn't solve the problem. Just as adding imperfections to God's perfections, doesn't solve the problem. They only raise more problems. As for Satan, it is time we consigned him to antiquity where he belongs with other myths and legends that man invented.


  • Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1406 - September 09, 2014, 08:28 AM

    I thought the notes were an appropriate enhancement of the chapter. You are right to add your commentary as it adds to what are already fantastic points, rounding them out perfectly.  I really enjoyed this section, particularly the insight into the verse of the angels Harut and Marut. It is impossible to distinguish the rolls of Allah and his angels from the rolls of Shaytan and his devils. We can’t thank you enough for translating this. Having this available in English is huge.
  • Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1407 - September 09, 2014, 08:31 AM


    One of the most absurd and childish myths found in both Islam & Christianity is that of the evil bogey man doer who misleads, tempts and encourages man to sin.

    Would that be better?



    I understand the choice of the word boogie man. If I can speculate as to Abu Ali’s intentions, I think it draws the reader’s attention to the similarities between the two supposed diabolical beings and leaves them to wonder why they accept one myth and reject the other.
  • Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1408 - September 09, 2014, 08:37 AM

    I changed it to Satan - thanks for the feed back guys - I really appreciate it  Afro

    The  book is without doubt an outstanding and very important book. It is however a draft - as it says nashra tajribiyya - and it is clear that is the case as I translate it as some bits need a little tidying up. As I say I have taken the liberty to do this, though this is the first time I have added a piece of my own.

    I just feel such an affinity to the book, I want it to have the full impact the author clear wanted it to have.
  • Discussion about "My Ordeal with the Qur'an"
     Reply #1409 - September 09, 2014, 08:39 AM

    I understand the choice of the word boogie man. If I can speculate as to Abu Ali’s intentions, I think it draws the reader’s attention to the similarities between the two supposed diabolical beings and leaves them to wonder why they accept one myth and reject the other.



    Spot on HM  Afro

    But I changed it anyway - out of respect to Lily Smiley
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