AC Grayling: Religion in it's death throes

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- Iblis
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AC Grayling: Religion in it's death throes
OP - March 01, 2010, 07:42 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pE-RtzHrkyw

AC Grayling has such a melodious voice. It's like he's singing to me. But you don't need to do that AC baby, you had me at "death throe".

Quote from: thinkfree on September 28, 2010, 03:58 PM
Iblis has mad debaterin' skillz. Best not step up unless you're prepared to recieve da pain.
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Re: AC Grayling: Religion in it's death throes
Reply #1 - March 01, 2010, 07:59 PM

I haven't watched it, but I don't think religion is in its death throes. I think religion will persist. Its just a question of managing and curbing its hostility to the spaces in society in which individual conscience and equality flourishes, free from the poking fingers of religion.

"we can smell traitors and country haters"

Quote from: arX on April 30, 2011, 11:33 PM
God is Love.
Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.
- panoptic
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Re: AC Grayling: Religion in it's death throes
Reply #2 - March 01, 2010, 09:26 PM

Religion persists as long as necessary - for as long as the religious reflex of the world remains, so does the world of religion. But it is within the latter relation that the 'death of religion' is to be realised - when religion becomes merely a form of personal consciousness is when religion no longer has a stake in human affairs and is effectively abolished. And in that light one is tempted to side with Grayling, for what is really taking place is the systematic undermining of secularism - part and parcel of the entire counter-revolution against the working-class, the greatest it has ever known - and not its post-script. The terrible future which this reaction may portend is, nonetheless, uncertain, but not something I will dwell upon.

"...every imperfection in man is a bond with heaven..." - Karl Marx
- Mughal
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Re: AC Grayling: Religion in it's death throes
Reply #3 - March 02, 2010, 12:40 AM

Word religion means a way of life or a system of beliefs, customs, traditions or rules etc, however it means different things to different people. To some it is mainly about supernaturalism. This form of religion will persist for as long as ignorance persists and ignorance will persist because we are all born ignorant and so long as people remain ignorant religion will thrive. On the other hand as people become more and more knowledgeable so religion loses its hold on them. It is a sea-saw with religion on one side and the knowledge on the other.

People who use religion to exploit others will continue trying different tricks to keep religion going because they do not want a world in which they cannot unduly exploit others to their advantage. Human rights and exploitation are also related.

Religion as a moral force based on commonness in humanity for its good not god is absolutely necessary if we wish to see a better world. So it is to our benefit that in this sense we keep the religion alive and keep pushing for better and better human values till they become universal.

So if we keep pushing for freedom, secularism, democracy, human rights and separation between religion (heavenly dictates) and state we are bound to end up with a true and original sense of religion ie a way of life by people for the good of the people. So we must fight on to expand golden rule.

I am a student of quran and islam and not an exmuslim.
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Re: AC Grayling: Religion in it's death throes
Reply #4 - March 02, 2010, 05:45 AM

Hi Mughal may I direct your attention to this link http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=8931.0 ., in that post there is link of Bill Warner's article., I am just curious, if you were to write that article what would you change in it?

with best wishes
yeezevee

Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything
I renounced my faith to become a kafir,
the beloved betrayed me and turned in to a Muslim
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Re: AC Grayling: Religion in it's death throes
Reply #5 - March 03, 2010, 07:54 AM

Hello yeezevee, I usually write about islam in two respects. As a false religion or as an opponent of freedom, secularism, democracy etc etc.

The reason for first kind of writing is to educate people about islam in general so that they may be able to see the falsehood islam really is. The idea is to get muslims out of superstition for their own good so that they could progress and prosper.

The other is to educate muslims about coexistence and its necessities. This I do to help muslims see the problems if they do not let go islamic fascism. The war cannot be avoided between muslims and nonmuslims without muslims accepting nonmuslims as equals.

So any writing that is similar in objectivity I support it otherwise not. As we come from muslim tribes and families we cannot support others against our people for their unduly exploitative agendas.

I support nonmuslims against muslims only if they share the goals and take reasonable steps to achieve them. Like bringing education and democracy to muslims and going to wars against such elements amongst muslims who oppose the necessary change by force.

I do that because in my view without really strong external pressures muslims will never change.

regards and all the best.

I am a student of quran and islam and not an exmuslim.
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Re: AC Grayling: Religion in it's death throes
Reply #6 - March 03, 2010, 10:43 AM

Thank you for that wonderful response dear Mughal
Quote
I usually write about islam in two respects. As a false religion or as an opponent of freedom, secularism, democracy etc etc.

The reason for first kind of writing is to educate people about islam in general so that they may be able to see the falsehood islam really is. The idea is to get muslims out of superstition for their own good so that they could progress and prosper.

The other is to educate muslims about coexistence and its necessities. This I do to help muslims see the problems if they do not let go islamic fascism. The war cannot be avoided between muslims and nonmuslims without muslims accepting nonmuslims as equals.

That is/was very clear to me as I am reading you for almost 7 years or so.. lol.. dear Mughal., We know what to do and how to educate Muslim folks., Off course we can do that in Mosques or public., that is very unfortunate.. But there is lot of progress due to web., So I am optimistic..

Quote
So any writing that is similar in objectivity I support it otherwise not. As we come from muslim tribes and families we cannot support others against our people for their unduly exploitative agendas.

That is an extremely important point which needs further discussion dear Mughal., Let us take some practical examples of others WHO ARE/WERE not Muslims or related to Muslims exploiting the with ulterior motives and agendas.. It would be nice to take some examples and people who do such things..

Quote
I support nonmuslims against muslims only if they share the goals and take reasonable steps to achieve them. Like bringing education and democracy to muslims and going to wars against such elements amongst muslims who oppose the necessary change by force.

Could we do that without going to war?

Quote
I do that because in my view without really strong external pressures muslims will never change.

external pressure means what? I mean what kind of pressure is needed? These guys explode anything you talk against Islam, Islamic history, Prophet and Quran.

So can we do that change in Islamic societies without touching or talking against Islam, Islamic history, Prophet of Islam and Quran.

Thanks for your wonderful and educational posts
yeezevee

Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything
I renounced my faith to become a kafir,
the beloved betrayed me and turned in to a Muslim
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