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Theme Changer

 Topic: Hello people

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  • Re: Hello people
     Reply #360 - January 15, 2010, 02:24 PM


    Hey Debunker, I'm not angry - typed words on a computer screen are not manifestations of anger - nor is concentrated and specific ridiculing of the inanity of Islam, especially in the context of slavery - these words are typed in a spirit of love for slaves, humanity, and impish delight in the (metaphorical) skinning and frying of the stupidity of these aspects of Islam, its claims of eternal truth, and all apologetics for it. This shit is fun Afro



    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Hello people
     Reply #361 - January 15, 2010, 02:24 PM

    Do you really think we are arrogant, if we are willing to go with evidence?   And this arrogance deserves eternal punishment?  Muslims dont even accept evidence, when it comes to evolution.  Can we then call them even more arrogant, and would I then feel comfortable with them being tortured in a potential after-life? Answer is no.  
    Again I could understand this better if it was a manmade religion, i.e. threatening people to believe, because Muhammed never had a personal relationship with an angel or an invisible sky god.But you know this collection of atoms is conscious & can feel pain. Its also the way non-believers are stigmatised as inherently bad & arrogant people, and deserving of this eternal torture.  Why do you think a whole generation of Muslims are not so accepting of disbelievers.  

    What do you put the resultant culture of Islam down too?  You blame bad muslims, but I believe muslims are no different genertically to others.  It can only come down to the religion.


    Islame,

    first of all, thanks for discussing a different point... now before I answer you, do you believe that there is something in each one of us (along with other animals) that is beyond nature? yes/no? Please I want a straight answer... either yes or no.

    A googolplex is *precisely* as far from infinity as is the number 1.--Carl Sagan
  • Re: Hello people
     Reply #362 - January 15, 2010, 02:25 PM

    hello sky,

    The verse obviously doesn't say this... the circumstances of the revelation of that verse do... remember, it was only revealed after the wives launched a revenge campaign against their husbands. It really is nothing more of a suspended sentence to solve that particular problem... of course, you don't agree, you never do, I know.

    regards.


    We had a discussion whether quran is for all times or not . I have to admit that I couldnt convince you properly. Anyway I dont wish to debate that claim here. For the time being I assume that only some quran is for all times.Coming to the topic at hand  I think that revelation of a verse for a particular context doesnt necessarily imply that it cannot be for future generations and thats why I  raised this question here after reading your stance against wife beating.For e.g the verse regarding concept of banning adoption was revealed in a particular context and till date muslims believe in it I suppose.So we see that a verse revealed in a particular context can also be  applicable for future so my point is that just because this verse related to beating was revealed in a specific context cannot be a concrete evidence to make a claim that its only for Arabs and not for future.IT can mean that its for Arabs of those times as a solution for that problem as well as for the future generations.
  • Re: Hello people
     Reply #363 - January 15, 2010, 02:30 PM

    Hey Debunker, I'm not angry - typed words on a computer screen are not manifestations of anger - nor is concentrated and specific ridiculing of the inanity of Islam, especially in the context of slavery - these words are typed in a spirit of love for slaves, humanity, and impish delight in the (metaphorical) skinning and frying of the stupidity of these aspects of Islam, its claims of eternal truth, and all apologetics for it. This shit is fun Afro





    Beloved Billy, I'm glad to learn that you are not angry. In fact, I'm happy that you are having fun... after all, that's what forums are really for: having fun. Now, I have explained everything I wanted to explain to YUNUS about slavery in my first post in this thread... of course, I don't expect those who already made up their minds to be convinced of anything... I'm just having fun and quite frankly, the subject of slavery is getting too old for me...

    How about you join me and Islame in our discussion about Hell? New subject, more fun.

    A googolplex is *precisely* as far from infinity as is the number 1.--Carl Sagan
  • Re: Hello people
     Reply #364 - January 15, 2010, 02:32 PM

    @ sky

    apples and oranges, dear sky, apples and oranges.

    A googolplex is *precisely* as far from infinity as is the number 1.--Carl Sagan
  • Re: Hello people
     Reply #365 - January 15, 2010, 02:32 PM

    On the topic of slavery, this is a pretty cool painting:

    (Clicky for piccy!)


    You know, that would really make for good role play...  I like the theme...

    "Modern man's great illusion has been to convince himself that of all that has gone before he represents the zenith of human accomplishment, but can't summon the mental powers to read anything more demanding than emoticons. Fascinating. "

    One very horny Turk I met on the net.
  • Re: Hello people
     Reply #366 - January 15, 2010, 02:36 PM

    That painting mesmerizes me.

    Iblis has mad debaterin' skillz. Best not step up unless you're prepared to recieve da pain.

  • Re: Hello people
     Reply #367 - January 15, 2010, 02:37 PM

    Billy dear, calm down... why are you so angry?

    like i said before it was really unfair when your enemies are given the right to enslave Muslims falling in the Battle field, while Muslims were supposed to release them only to fight them in another battle.

    Like I said before, why did allah or his so called prophet not come with the geneva conventions? Why was it that non muslims came up with those conventions?

    Oh please, don't get me started on grave worship.... ummm? Wait! Are you an ex-Muslim who used to worship graves? Anyway, a 1000+ verses said to pray to God alone.. it doesn't get any clearer than that.

    Yea right. I didn't worship graves, however the people who according to you 'worship' graves don't think they're worshipping them, to them they're not considering the grave allah and that makes it ok to them. They just consider it praying respect to the grave and not 'worshipping' them. If there were any verses specifically saying don't bow to graves they wouldn't do so. However the topic here is slavery. There are no verses denouncing slavery and the abolishing of slavery came from the west.
  • Re: Hello people
     Reply #368 - January 15, 2010, 02:39 PM

    Beloved Billy, I'm glad to learn that you are not angry. In fact, I'm happy that you are having fun... after all, that's what forums are really for: having fun. Now, I have explained everything I wanted to explain to YUNUS about slavery in my first post in this thread... of course, I don't expect those who already made up their minds to be convinced of anything... I'm just having fun and quite frankly, the subject of slavery is getting too old for me...

    How about you join me and Islame in our discussion about Hell? New subject, more fun.


    Darling, slavery is sooo yesterday  Grin

    Yo dude, its not a question of the mind being made up about something, I mean we're not talking about who is better - Maradona or Pele, knowhatImsayin. Slavery sucks the devil's cock, all those who apologise for it suck the devil's cock too, any religion that institutionalised and post facto renders apologia for slavery......well, you get the drift.




    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Hello people
     Reply #369 - January 15, 2010, 02:41 PM

    do you believe that there is something in each one of us (along with other animals) that is beyond nature? yes/no? Please I want a straight answer... either yes or no.

    no.
  • Re: Hello people
     Reply #370 - January 15, 2010, 02:48 PM

    Darling, slavery is sooo yesterday  Grin

    Yo dude, its not a question of the mind being made up about something, I mean we're not talking about who is better - Maradona or Pele, knowhatImsayin. Slavery sucks the devil's cock, all those who apologise for it suck the devil's cock too, any religion that institutionalised and post facto renders apologia for slavery......well, you get the drift.






    Billy, Billy, Billy, dear Billy. Ok, so you're still hung up on the subject of slavery. So, how about you answer me this question. Imagine yourself in a time where people enslaved people falling in battle... would you acept that they can enslave you but you cannot enslave the fallen warriors? yes/no?

    If you answer with yes, then what would you do with those captives? release them so that they can join a future battle against you? yes/no?

     

    A googolplex is *precisely* as far from infinity as is the number 1.--Carl Sagan
  • Re: Hello people
     Reply #371 - January 15, 2010, 02:51 PM

    @ Islame

    it's really a simple yes/no question, what's taking you so long? Our friend liberated even answered in your place, he can't wait for you to answer a simple question.

    anyway, I'm waiting.

    A googolplex is *precisely* as far from infinity as is the number 1.--Carl Sagan
  • Re: Hello people
     Reply #372 - January 15, 2010, 02:52 PM

    Quote
    Billy, Billy, Billy, dear Billy. Ok, so you're still hung up on the subject of slavery. So, how about you answer me this question. Imagine yourself in a time where people enslaved people falling in battle... would you acept that they can enslave you but you cannot enslave the fallen warriors? yes/no?

    If you answer with yes, then what would you do with those captives? release them so that they can join a future battle against you? yes/no?


    Same as how the NATO troops act right now. The enemy soldiers are made POWs (prisoners of war) but not enslaved. They might be released later or tried in a court and jailed. However they will not be sold as slaves and cannot be (legally) tortured or killed without a fair trial. They retain all the rights of a free human being, whereas a slave can be killed at any time for the amusement of his/her master. If the soldiers had any families who were civilians such as women/children they will in most cases be freed.

    NATO troops are denied all these rights if they're captured by the taliban but they still (legally have to, and in most cases do) respect their rights when they capture the taliban.
  • Re: Hello people
     Reply #373 - January 15, 2010, 02:56 PM

    Billy, Billy, Billy, dear Billy.


     Grin

    *mwah*



    Ok, so you're still hung up on the subject of slavery.


    Au contraire bro - you seem very hung up on it - as your irrelevant apologtics yes / no 'context' based question above shows.

    Now, as far as slavery and being hung up goes - I am only interested in hanging from a rope the moral void and abyss at the heart of Islam's claims of immutable truth and eternal perfection in the light of its horrific apologia and institutionalisation of slavery. Hang 'em high  Afro









    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Hello people
     Reply #374 - January 15, 2010, 03:02 PM

    billy, you dissapoint me.. no answer to simple questions.

    A googolplex is *precisely* as far from infinity as is the number 1.--Carl Sagan
  • Re: Hello people
     Reply #375 - January 15, 2010, 03:05 PM

    @ liberated

    Quote
    Same as how the NATO troops act right now. The enemy soldiers are made POWs (prisoners of war) but not enslaved. They might be released later or tried in a court and jailed. However they will not be sold as slaves and cannot be (legally) tortured or killed without a fair trial. They retain all the rights of a free human being, whereas a slave can be killed at any time for the amusement of his/her master. If the soldiers had any families who were civilians such as women/children they will in most cases be freed.


    Irrelevant because both sides respect the same rules (well, kinda).

    Quote
    NATO troops are denied all these rights if they're captured by the taliban but they still (legally have to, and in most cases do) respect their rights when they capture the taliban.


    captured by the Taliban? Are you saying those people keep captured soldiers alive?

    A googolplex is *precisely* as far from infinity as is the number 1.--Carl Sagan
  • Re: Hello people
     Reply #376 - January 15, 2010, 03:06 PM

    Islame,

    first of all, thanks for discussing a different point... now before I answer you, do you believe that there is something in each one of us (along with other animals) that is beyond nature? yes/no? Please I want a straight answer... either yes or no.

    No

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: Hello people
     Reply #377 - January 15, 2010, 03:08 PM


     
    Are we just atoms?
    [/b]
     
    To scientists, this universe is made up of energy/matter, space and time. To scientists, humans, animals, forests, rocks and deserts are simply made of stardust.
     
    What is stardust? It's a term that refers to all the elements in the Periodic Table.
     

     
    Everything, dead or alive is made of these elements... but why the term stardust? It's because these elements have been cooked (and are being cooked) in the hearts of stars and when these stars die, they explode into dust (a mixture of these elements). From this dust, planets like Earth with everything on it are created.
     
    So man is created from stardust. But being made of stardust, how is man different from all other creation? The fact is, even without any advanced knowledge in biology, the similarities between man and other animals are rather remarkable. Man eats, drinks, defecates, urinates, sleeps, ages, and dies like all other animals... and like many animals man has 4 limbs, 5 fingers, two eyes, two ears, etc. What sets man a world apart from any other animal is 3 things: Man is bipedal, can speak, and most importantly, man is a million times more intelligent than any other animal.
     
    Yet, amazingly man shares more than 90% of his genes with many animals... In fact, any human being shares about 99.9% of his genes with any other human being. Man shares 99% of his genes with Chimps, and 97% of his genes with rats.. on the other hand, and quite surprisingly, man shares 50% of his genes with a banana tree. But in light of the fact that everything comes from the same Periodic Table, that everything dead or alive shares the same origin (stardust), it is rather amazing that, despite of all the similarities, Man is very different at least when it comes to his intelligence.
     
    But are we really just stardust? What seperates intelligent beings from dead matter all around us? Our bodies, the whole lot of us are just a big walking clump of atoms? Isn't it rather obvious that there is something beyond nature, beyond matter?  
     
    Forget about "us". How about our pets? Are they just too sophisticated machines, composed of infinitely amazing combination of atoms and that their feelings, emotions and awareness are solely the end result of brain chemistry?
     
    Is it because of sophisticated chemistry, we feel alive?
     
    How can we (and other intelligent animals), while we are formed from the same stardust (Periodic Table) as everything else in this universe, how come ONLY we (and intelligent animals) have non-material attributes like awareness, emotions and feelings?
     
    Chemistry is only a necessary (but not sufficient) condition to having feelings, emotions and awareness. All of these side effects of the brain chemistry are in themselves non-material.
     
    I wonder if scientists view it as some sort of a rule, an unbreakable taboo, that despite KNOWING and EXPERIENCING non-material phenomena every second of our awareness, we should robotically repeat that there's nothing beyond nature? Is it some sort of a religious belief that they subscribe to?
     
    Or is it that any scientist MUST see the clothes on the emperor's naked body, or everyone else would think them a fool?
     
    Non-material attributes cannot be solely dependent on the material world, and thus a non-material element is indeed missing from the picture.
     
    Take the most basic emotion, FEAR for example. All humans/monkeys/zebras/etc, if they saw a charging lion they'd feel fear. Without the required chemistry in your brain, however, you cannot feel fear. Yet the emotion of fear itelf is non-material... it's a manifestation of awareness (of our existence, for example)... When you are asleep, you aren't aware, but when cortisol rises to a certain level in your body, melatonin vanishes, etc, etc you wake up... you become aware.
     
    Material is necessary but not sufficient, required but not everything. Awareness, attention and conscienceness are only manifestations, or evidence for this missing element that is beyond nature, beyond the Periodic Table, beyond the STARDUST. Many religions give this element the name, SOUL.
     
    If we were merely electrons/protons/neutrons, then there's no reason whatsoever for us to be aware of our own existence, for example.
     
    You can prove a hypothesis wrong, by giving only one example contradicting it. The hypothesis that the natural world (all by itself) accounts for all phenomena is proved wrong by giving the example of us being aware of our existence.
     
    Remember: ALL the natural world is simply energy/matter and while these are necessary for us to be aware of our existence, these aren't sufficient.
     
    But what is the SOUL according to Quran?
     
    [17:85] And they ask you about the soul. Say: The soul is of the commands of my Lord, and you are not given aught of knowledge but a little.
     
    Indeed, no matter how much we know, it'll always be a drop in an infinite ocean.

    A googolplex is *precisely* as far from infinity as is the number 1.--Carl Sagan
  • Re: Hello people
     Reply #378 - January 15, 2010, 03:09 PM

    thanks, Islame

    jus give me 15 minutes to answer your previous questions.

    A googolplex is *precisely* as far from infinity as is the number 1.--Carl Sagan
  • Re: Hello people
     Reply #379 - January 15, 2010, 03:09 PM

    Can I ask you a direct yes/no direct question in return?

    Here it is, Iblis put it perfectly before

    He's not angry, but apologists are rather frustrating because they go around in circles.

    Look the basic point your missing is that Islam is supposed to be a universal, immutable set of laws. Meaning for all times, and all places. Giving these ridiculous rationalisations is besides the point.

    Is slavery wrong or not according to Islam? Yes or no? Answer is no, Islam recognizes slavery as an institution. You cannot change that simple fact.

    And that simply makes Islam obviously not universal right away, because the rest of mankind has obviously moved beyond Islam and the west is far superior to Islam because they abolished slavery. An act which is against Islam since Islam makes slavery halal.


    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: Hello people
     Reply #380 - January 15, 2010, 03:16 PM

    Please note my answer was no before, but this was in response to whether I believed it or not. I am an agnostic, I am not what you call 'arrogant' enough to be 100% sure about something that is unseen.

    I like this direct answer game. Can I have another go?

    Do you believe Islam is 'God's' religion, or do you know 100% that is.

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: Hello people
     Reply #381 - January 15, 2010, 03:21 PM

    Can I ask you a direct yes/no direct question in return?

    Here it is, Iblis put it perfectly before



    Ans. No.

    Explanation: Muslims couldn't have been put at a disadvantage. The ENTIRE world practiced it including their enemies. PLUS emancipation was highly recommened and alms were supposed to be spent to free slaves.

    A googolplex is *precisely* as far from infinity as is the number 1.--Carl Sagan
  • Re: Hello people
     Reply #382 - January 15, 2010, 03:22 PM

    billy, you dissapoint me.. no answer to simple questions.


    "no answer to simple simpleton questions"

    ^^^ just corrected that for you mate.




    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Hello people
     Reply #383 - January 15, 2010, 03:22 PM

    Please note my answer was no before, but this was in response to whether I believed it or not. I am an agnostic, I am not what you call 'arrogant' enough to be 100% sure about something that is unseen.

    I like this direct answer game. Can I have another go?

    Do you believe Islam is 'God's' religion, or do you know 100% that is.


    Yes.

    Elaboration: I am 100% sure the Quran is the word of God, as for every thing else, it's in the gray area.

    A googolplex is *precisely* as far from infinity as is the number 1.--Carl Sagan
  • Re: Hello people
     Reply #384 - January 15, 2010, 03:23 PM

    "no answer to simple simpleton questions"

    ^^^ just corrected that for you mate.




    I'm sure you're a lot smarter than me billy... thanks for the correction and for not answering.. I'm enjoying my time with Islame now.

    A googolplex is *precisely* as far from infinity as is the number 1.--Carl Sagan
  • Re: Hello people
     Reply #385 - January 15, 2010, 03:25 PM

    @ Islame

    it's really a simple yes/no question, what's taking you so long? Our friend liberated even answered in your place, he can't wait for you to answer a simple question.

    anyway, I'm waiting.

    Sorry, I was having my dinner

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: Hello people
     Reply #386 - January 15, 2010, 03:30 PM

    @ Islame

    this is my answer to some of your previous questions, then I'll get into the main subject (eternal hell)

    Quote
    Its also the way non-believers are stigmatised as inherently bad & arrogant people, and deserving of this eternal torture.  Why do you think a whole generation of Muslims are not so accepting of disbelievers.

      

    Well, what can I say? they clearly ignore these verses:

    060.008
    God does NOT forbid you respecting those who have not made war against you on account of (your) religion, and have not driven you forth from your homes, that you show them kindness and deal with them justly; surely God loves the doers of justice.

    060.009
    God only forbids you respecting those who made war upon you on account of (your) religion, and drove you forth from your homes and backed up (others) in your expulsion, that you make friends with them take them as Walis, and whoever makes friends with them takes them as Walis, these are the unjust.  

    4:140
    And indeed He has revealed to you in the Book that when you hear Allah's communications disbelieved in and mocked at do not sit with them until they enter into some other discourse; surely then you would be like them; surely Allah will gather together the hypocrites and the unbelievers all in hell.


    Quote
    What do you put the resultant culture of Islam down too?  You blame bad muslims, but I believe muslims are no different genertically to others.  It can only come down to the religion.

     

    Latinos are not Muslims and they are no better than they are... by the way, ever heard of a country called Oman? They are amonst the nicest people you'll ever meet and they are Muslims. Corruption is the root cause for the behavior of Muslims.

    A googolplex is *precisely* as far from infinity as is the number 1.--Carl Sagan
  • Re: Hello people
     Reply #387 - January 15, 2010, 03:31 PM

    I'm sure you're a lot smarter than me billy.


    Don't be so tough on yourself dude.


    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: Hello people
     Reply #388 - January 15, 2010, 03:35 PM

    Yes.

    Elaboration: I am 100% sure the Quran is the word of God, as for every thing else, it's in the gray area.

    You know 100% that is the word of God?
    To qualify,
    - you know as a100% fact that it is the word of God
    - you know as a100% fact that there is only one God
    - you know as a 100% fact that this Muhammed was his messenger and through his disciples he managed to transfer  these words 30 years later without err to this book called Quran i.e. without mistake, extra additions/ommisions by man


    Please, to clarify, again answer yes or no


    My Book     news002       
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  • Re: Hello people
     Reply #389 - January 15, 2010, 03:44 PM

    @ Islame

    this is my answer to some of your previous questions, then I'll get into the main subject (eternal hell)
     

    Well, what can I say? they clearly ignore these verses:

    060.008
    God does NOT forbid you respecting those who have not made war against you on account of (your) religion, and have not driven you forth from your homes, that you show them kindness and deal with them justly; surely God loves the doers of justice.

    060.009
    God only forbids you respecting those who made war upon you on account of (your) religion, and drove you forth from your homes and backed up (others) in your expulsion, that you make friends with them take them as Walis, and whoever makes friends with them takes them as Walis, these are the unjust. 


    4:140
    And indeed He has revealed to you in the Book that when you hear Allah's communications disbelieved in and mocked at do not sit with them until they enter into some other discourse; surely then you would be like them; surely Allah will gather together the hypocrites and the unbelievers all in hell.



    but they are just words in a book revealed by a random man to none believers.  I am sure you would fel the same way about another set of words by another man that were put into a book

    Quote
    Latinos are not Muslims and they are no better than they are... by the way, ever heard of a country called Oman? They are amonst the nicest people you'll ever meet and they are Muslims. Corruption is the root cause for the behavior of Muslims.

    Have you ever wondered why the muslim world lags behind the rest of the world.  If we are all born the same, then it can only be down to the religion and its resultant culture that causes these problems.  No?

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