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Theme Changer

 Topic: Praying 50 times a day

 (Read 10622 times)
  • 12 Next page « Previous thread | Next thread »
  • Praying 50 times a day
     OP - November 26, 2009, 02:56 AM

    So, I heard this story: Originally, Allah had intended to demand muslims to pray 50 times a day. But Mo and Moses went into heaven to haggle with Big Al and brought him down to five times a day.

    Is this a genuine story? Do people actually believe that? And how do they live with all the inconsistencies? For example, if this haggling only happened during Mo's time, but there were Muslims before Mohammed, then did those previous Muslims actually pray 50 times a day?
  • Re: Praying 50 times a day
     Reply #1 - November 26, 2009, 03:10 AM

    I heard about something similar to that as well. I wish I could remember exactly. Google is not helping.

    tea and cake or death!!!

    "Dear Josh, we came by to fuck you, but you were not home. Therefore... you are gay."  Ghost World
  • Re: Praying 50 times a day
     Reply #2 - November 26, 2009, 03:12 AM

    Quote
    Sahih Bukhari (Book of Authentic Hadith)
    Book 8

    345. Narrated Abu Dharr: Allah's Apostle (SAW) said, "While I was at Mecca the roof of my house was opened and descended, opened my chest, and washed it with Zam-zam water. Then he brought a golden tray full of wisdom and faith and having poured its contents into my chest, he closed it. Then he took my hand and ascended with me to the nearest heaven, when I reached the nearest heaven, Gabriel said to the gatekeeper of the heaven, 'Open (the gate).' The gatekeeper asked, 'Who is it?' Gabriel answered: 'Gabriel.' He asked, 'Is there anyone with you?' Gabriel replied, 'Yes, Muhammad is with me.' He asked, 'Has he been called?' Gabriel said, 'Yes.' So the gate was opened and we went over the nearest heaven and there we saw a man sitting with some people on his right and some on his left. When he looked towards his right, he laughed and when he looked toward his left he wept. Then he said, 'Welcome! O pious Prophet and pious son.' I asked Gabriel, 'Who is he?' He replied, 'He is Adam and the people on his right and left are the souls of his offspring. Those on his right are the people of Paradise and those on his left are the people of Hell and when he looks towards his right he laughs and when he looks towards his left he weeps.' Then he ascended with me till he reached the second heaven and he (Gabriel) said to its gatekeeper, 'Open (the gate).' The gatekeeper said to him the same as the gatekeeper of the first heaven had said and he opened the gate. Anas said: "Abu Dharr added that the Prophet (SAW) met Adam, Idris, Moses, Jesus and Abraham. He (Abu Dharr) did not mention on which heaven they were but he mentioned that he (the Prophet (SAW)) met Adam on the nearest heaven and Abraham on the sixth heaven. Anas said, "When Gabriel along with the Prophet (SAW) passed by Idris, the latter said, 'Welcome! O pious Prophet and pious brother' The Prophet (SAW) asked, 'Who is he?' Gabriel replied, 'He is Idris.' The Prophet (SAW) added, "I passed by Moses and he said, 'Welcome! O pious Prophet and pious brother.' I asked Gabriel, 'Who is he?' Gabriel replied, 'He is Moses.' Then I passed by Jesus and he said, 'Welcome! O pious brother and pious Prophet.' I asked, 'Who is he?' Gabriel replied, 'He is Jesus.' Then I passed by Abraham and he said, 'Welcome! O pious Prophet and pious son.' I asked Gabriel, 'Who is he?' Gabriel replied, 'He is Abraham.' The Prophet (SAW) added, "Then Gabriel ascended with me to a place where I heard the creaking of the pens." Ibn Hazm and Anas bin Malik said: The Prophet (SAW) said, "Then Allah enjoined fifty prayers on my followers. When I returned with this order of Allah, I passed by Moses who asked me, 'What has Allah enjoined on your followers?' I replied, 'He has enjoined fifty prayers on them.' Moses said, 'Go back to your Lord (and appeal for reduction) for your followers will not be able to bear it.' (So I went back to Allah and requested for reduction) and He reduced it to half. When I passed by Moses again and informed him about it, he said, 'Go back to your Lord as your followers will not be able to bear it.' So I returned to Allah and requested for further reduction and half of it was reduced. I again passed by Moses and he said to me: 'Return to your Lord, for your followers will not be able to bear it. So I returned to Allah and He said, 'These are five prayers and they are all (equal to) fifty (in reward) for My Word does not change.' I returned to Moses and he told me to go back once again. I replied, 'Now I feel shy of asking my Lord again.' Then Gabriel took me till we reached Sidrat Muntaha (lote tree of the utmost boundary) which was shrouded in colors, indescribable. Then I was admitted into Paradise where I found small (tents or) walls (made) of pearls and its earth was of musk."


    Is this a healthy Hadith?  Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy
  • Re: Praying 50 times a day
     Reply #3 - November 26, 2009, 03:16 AM

    Quote
    Then he brought a golden tray full of wisdom and faith and having poured its contents into my chest, he closed it.


    Stupid Gabriel. Doesn't he know that wisdom goes into the head, not into the chest. No wonder, Mo is short on wisdom...  Cheesy
  • Re: Praying 50 times a day
     Reply #4 - November 26, 2009, 03:16 AM

    So, I heard this story: Originally, Allah had intended to demand muslims to pray 50 times a day. But Mo and Moses went into heaven to haggle with Big Al and brought him down to five times a day.

    Is this a genuine story? Do people actually believe that? And how do they live with all the inconsistencies? For example, if this haggling only happened during Mo's time, but there were Muslims before Mohammed, then did those previous Muslims actually pray 50 times a day?


    It is one of those many narratives developed over the centuries that explain an issue to the unwashed masses. The problem is when there are idiots out there who turn a few narratives around and claim they're factual events even though there is no basis for such claims.

    "It's just a job. Grass grows, birds fly, waves pound the sand. I beat people up." - Muhammad Ali
  • Re: Praying 50 times a day
     Reply #5 - November 26, 2009, 03:20 AM

    I actually find it quite amusing.  parrot

    tea and cake or death!!!

    "Dear Josh, we came by to fuck you, but you were not home. Therefore... you are gay."  Ghost World
  • Re: Praying 50 times a day
     Reply #6 - November 26, 2009, 03:43 AM

    I went to one of my in-law's housewarming parties and ended up in a room with all the men and the imam who came (to bless the house I presume) was telling this story. I found it quite incredible the idea that moses would actually try and haggle with god, and succeed at it. The moral is don't complain about 5 because it could have been worse.

    My style is impetuous, my defense is impregnable and I'm just ferocious. I want your heart. I want to eat your children. Praise be to Allah." -- Mike Tyson
  • Re: Praying 50 times a day
     Reply #7 - November 26, 2009, 04:59 PM

    yes, as well as the fact that Moses was more in tune with his people, than the the ominicient creator.

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: Praying 50 times a day
     Reply #8 - November 26, 2009, 05:38 PM

    I went to one of my in-law's housewarming parties and ended up in a room with all the men and the imam who came (to bless the house I presume) was telling this story. I found it quite incredible the idea that moses would actually try and haggle with god, and succeed at it. The moral is don't complain about 5 because it could have been worse.


    To me the moral is: Moses was more merciful than Allah. Allah was mean bastard and was bad at bargaining! Moses win, Allah fail! bunny

    ...
  • Re: Praying 50 times a day
     Reply #9 - November 26, 2009, 05:45 PM

    This is why Allah hates the Jews. He's still pissed off for being tricked by Moses like that.

    Iblis has mad debaterin' skillz. Best not step up unless you're prepared to recieve da pain.

  • Re: Praying 50 times a day
     Reply #10 - November 26, 2009, 08:22 PM

    I remember the first time I heard this I thought the ex-muslims here were pulling my leg.   wacko  How does religion get away with being so blatantly ridiculous?

    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Re: Praying 50 times a day
     Reply #11 - November 28, 2009, 03:29 AM

    This whole thing sounds like the whole story of how there were "originally" hundreds of commandments, which were reduced to 10: http://therefinersfire.org/original_commandments1.htm (fundie christian site)

    Quote
    Allah ...said, '...My Word does not change


    Except for when it does. As just demonstrated in this here hadith.  Cheesy

    "Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused."
  • Re: Praying 50 times a day
     Reply #12 - November 28, 2009, 10:23 AM

    Quote
    The Prophet (pbuh) recalled: ? On my way back I passed by Moses and what a good friend to you he was! He asked me how many prayers had I been ordained to perform. When I told him fifty, he said, 'Prayer is a serious matter and your people are weak, so go back to your Lord and ask Him to reduce the number for you and your community.' I did so and He took away ten. Again I passed by Moses and he said the same again; and so it went on until only five prayers for the whole day and night were left. Moses again gave me the same advice. I replied that I had been back to my Lord and asked him to reduce the number until I was ashamed, and I would not do it again.http://www.globusz.com/ebooks/Mohammad/00000025.htm


    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: Praying 50 times a day
     Reply #13 - November 28, 2009, 10:28 AM

    This whole thing sounds like the whole story of how there were "originally" hundreds of commandments, which were reduced to 10: http://therefinersfire.org/original_commandments1.htm (fundie christian site)

    Except for when it does. As just demonstrated in this here hadith.  Cheesy

    the original set sound more like the pecularities of Islam & the hadith:-

    P184 Deuteronomy22:8 Build fence on roof, remove potential hazards from home
    N331 Leviticus18:8 No relations with one's father's wife  Afro

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: Praying 50 times a day
     Reply #14 - November 28, 2009, 09:47 PM

    Stupid Gabriel. Doesn't he know that wisdom goes into the head, not into the chest. No wonder, Mo is short on wisdom...  Cheesy

    Bukhari is pretty solid, except of course when he is inconvenient.  Wink

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Praying 50 times a day
     Reply #15 - November 29, 2009, 07:36 AM

    Bukhari is pretty solid, except of course when he is inconvenient.  Wink


    I'd love to do a documentary entitled:

    Sahih Bukhari: An inconvenient truth

    Tongue

    "It's just a job. Grass grows, birds fly, waves pound the sand. I beat people up." - Muhammad Ali
  • Re: Praying 50 times a day
     Reply #16 - November 29, 2009, 11:57 AM

    Sahih Bukhari for confirming the age of Aisha, murder of apostates as well as some of Muhammed more heinous crimes.  Sahih Bukhari is Islams gay bishop / mistress hiding in the closet. 

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Praying 50 times a day
     Reply #17 - December 21, 2014, 03:01 PM

    Ding Ding Ding, did someone mention 50 times a days lol. we have only 24 hours in a day- that's fairly 2 times an hour. give us your imagination how can this be achieved  grin12
  • Praying 50 times a day
     Reply #18 - December 21, 2014, 04:02 PM

    Isn't it the case that days were longer then? As explained to us by those describing the amount of time it takes for light to traverse the universe, dinosaurs, etc.

    50 times a day would be reasonable in those circumstances?
  • Praying 50 times a day
     Reply #19 - December 21, 2014, 04:04 PM

    I would say very reasonable  Cheesy
  • Praying 50 times a day
     Reply #20 - December 21, 2014, 04:19 PM

    This is a well-known and oft-repeated hadith.

    But it's so blindingly obvious to me now that these are the words of a human being.

    If there is some-sort of wise & all-powerful god out there, why on earth would he go to the trouble of creating intelligent beings simply so they can prostrate to him every half an hour.

    It is man who wishes to worship an all-powerful god and it is man who wishes to have this god on his side and pleased with him.
  • Praying 50 times a day
     Reply #21 - December 21, 2014, 04:53 PM

    How can you haggle with an all-knowing God? he would know Mohammed would come back to ask for less, why not just give him 5 in the first place?The story is pretty amusing anyway.
  • Praying 50 times a day
     Reply #22 - December 21, 2014, 07:16 PM

    Moses actually did quite a bit of haggling with God in the Torah. God was always threatening to destroy all the people and make a new nation from Moses's descendants and Moses was always giving him reasons not to (mostly having to do with "What will the neighbors think?"). 

    Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil, for I have a sonic screwdriver, a tricorder, and a Type 2 phaser.
  • Praying 50 times a day
     Reply #23 - December 21, 2014, 07:18 PM

    lol
  • Praying 50 times a day
     Reply #24 - December 21, 2014, 07:45 PM

    Whenever I think of haggling, all I think of is the scene from Life of Brian.  Grin
  • Praying 50 times a day
     Reply #25 - December 21, 2014, 08:10 PM

    Moses actually did quite a bit of haggling with God in the Torah. God was always threatening to destroy all the people and make a new nation from Moses's descendants and Moses was always giving him reasons not to (mostly having to do with "What will the neighbors think?"). 


    The whole thing is bizarre, so the daily prayers are not some wise, beneficial schedule given to us from Allah but just a random number set because Mo kept complaining. Who knows, maybe the polygamy and concubine thing came about because Moe simply kept complaining to God that the Muslims are horny and want to get laid more.
  • Praying 50 times a day
     Reply #26 - December 21, 2014, 08:13 PM

    Guys, this is just hadith so it can't display any flaws about Islam. Only the parts that are essential to worship can be taken as binding, literal truths.  Grin

    how fuck works without shit??


    Let's Play Chess!

    harakaat, friend, RIP
  • Praying 50 times a day
     Reply #27 - December 21, 2014, 09:43 PM

    This is a well-known and oft-repeated hadith.

    But it's so blindingly obvious to me now that these are the words of a human being.

    If there is some-sort of wise & all-powerful god out there, why on earth would he go to the trouble of creating intelligent beings simply so they can prostrate to him every half an hour.

    It is man who wishes to worship an all-powerful god and it is man who wishes to have this god on his side and pleased with him.


    Have you ever read the Preacher graphic novel series, yaa Abu Ali? It's backdrop is more or less Christo/Judeaic mythology, Islam is not mentioned once that I remember, but it explores in great detail the idea that God was insecure and lonely, and that's the reason he created the universe and demanded that people worship him, despite how terrible and awful the world is. In the end of the series, God gets gunned down along with all of his angels  grin12

    إطلب العلم ولو في الصين

    Es sitzt keine Krone so fest und so hoch,
    Der mutige Springer erreicht sie doch.

    I don't give a fuck about your war, or your President.
  • Praying 50 times a day
     Reply #28 - December 21, 2014, 09:48 PM


    إطلب العلم ولو في الصين

    Es sitzt keine Krone so fest und so hoch,
    Der mutige Springer erreicht sie doch.

    I don't give a fuck about your war, or your President.
  • Praying 50 times a day
     Reply #29 - December 21, 2014, 09:55 PM

    Have you ever read the Preacher graphic novel series, yaa Abu Ali? It's backdrop is more or less Christo/Judeaic mythology, Islam is not mentioned once that I remember, but it explores in great detail the idea that God was insecure and lonely, and that's the reason he created the universe and demanded that people worship him, despite how terrible and awful the world is. In the end of the series, God gets gunned down along with all of his angels  grin12


    Haha sounds interesting - I will look it up  Afro
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