Famous Muslim to infamous Murtad

[IRC Chat]

 IRC Chat

Web interface
IRC

Blue AceMysticMulti_CEMBOmega_MobileOutlineOmega_TPTP_V097_Default Mult

[Mixu Paatelainen]

Welcome and well done on leaving Islam!

I'm not gonna lie, I had never heard of you previously but I just looked you up on youtube!

Could I ask you how old you are? And how old were you when you became Muslim? Its just you seem quite young and seem to have had some remarkable experiences for one so young!

People say "you need God, He doesn't need you". Doesn't seem like it.

That is so true!

[Omaar Khayaam]

One of the most common reasons I've heard for Christians converting to Islam, is that they have a hard time coming to terms with the trinity and original sin. Islam offers them a pure monotheism without any other mystery attached to it. There is also the notion that every child is born without sin and hence there is no need to accept the blood of Christ.

[Infidel]

People say "you need God, He doesn't need you". Doesn't seem like it.

Ditto 

Also welcome to the forums. Well done on publicising about your apostasy, I wish I could do it as well. It will make people understand that there are indeed apostates and that they have experienced Islam and didn't like it. Cuz all of them will say that people who apostate are those who has not experienced Islam.

[awais]

Its Muslims like this that make me sick to my stomach, and they are so fucking hypocritical. I GUARANTEE you, that maybe 1 month before she left Islam, the same people who wrote that article said things about KimDonesia such as "MASHALLAH she is an amazing muslim, Alhumdulilah, she is knowledgable and so sincere MASHALLAH MASHALLAH MASHALLAH" But when she left they say the exact opposite. Those motherfucking cunts, it just shows their true colours.

Reminds me of this, which I predict would happen to me if I came out:

Bukhari, 55. Kitab al-Anbiya, #546

Narrated Anas:
...
"O Allah's Apostle! The Jews are liars, and if they should come to know about my conversion to Islam before you ask them (about me), they would tell a lie about me." The Jews came to Muhammad and 'Abdullah went inside the house. Muhammad asked (the Jews), "What kind of man is 'Abdullah bin Salam amongst you?" They replied, "He is the most learned person amongst us, and the best amongst us, and the son of the best amongst us." Muhammad said, "What do you think if he embraces Islam?" The Jews said, "May Allah save him from it." Then 'Abdullah bin Salam came out in front of them saying, "I testify that there is no god but God, and that Muhammad is the Messenger of God." Thereupon they said, "He is the evilest among us, and the son of the evilest amongst us," and continued talking badly of him.


I converted because I believed in Tawheed and everything that came with it. Don't dismiss that for Kim or anyone else.

[Manat]

Just read the article from the link on your facebook account

http://www.quranclub.net/2009/11/cleaning-up-kimdonesias-mess.html

particularly this bit:
Cleaning up KimDonesia's mess
 
by The Soul Of A Rose on Wednesday, November 18, 2009
Photo source.As Salamu Alaykoum dear brothers and sisters!

What is going on?

Two YouTube users, KimDonesia and TheVintageGoth, left Islam. We don't know much about TheVintageGoth, so here we'll talk about Kim.

This incident wouldn't be worth writing about if it wasn't for its potential to create fitnah and confusion.

About KimDonesia
KimDonesia produced a lot of loose Islamic material, built a large audience around her looks, and then all of a sudden dropped Islam.

She was advised by many, whilst she was a 'Muslim', not to put up videos that attract the male audience to her physical assets. We did our best to advise her about her un-Islamic behavior, yet she responded with rude and offensive comments.

Why did she exactly convert to Islam?
It is not clear, but we know that she didn't know much about the religion. Our guess is that:

?She either converted for personal reasons (to please someone or a group of people).
?Or all of this was a set up to harm Islam. The Quran mentions this old trick.

 

Its a shame that you only get to see the true colours of these people after leaving islam, if you seen it before you might have bolted earlier.

The same old same old.  She / he never believed, she was a fitnah / sinner, and it was a conspiracy anyway.  I honestly don't know how the west gets anything done, seeing as how we are all engaged, at all times, in conspiracies large and small against Islam.

[Manat]

I think some Europeans/Americans just want to explore outside their own comfort zone - something new and unfamiliar. I think that actually shows a lot of courage. For many it is a part of growing and exploring and for others it reflects a disillusionment or alienation from their own culture/faith etc... or just simply naivety.

I think a lot of it is just that many people get bored of the familiar and want to try something new. Unfortunately before they know it many are trapped into it as Islam tends to suck you in bit by bit and deeper and deeper, without one realising it.

Islam is "new" and different in the sense that it isn't Christianity, but it's still very much a comfort zone thing.  Islam is Abrahamic - the same characters, the same stories (or so you think), the same invisible sky friend.  The beliefs as far as the five pillars and the articles of faith really aren't that far off at all. It's the traditions and practices and the social constructs that are really out there.  Becoming Wiccan or getting into Theravada Buddhism or even Mormonism is really, really different than what you are familiar with, as the average westerner.

A lot of us were told that we could "still be Americans / British / etc and be Muslim" and that our lives didn't require that much change - just don't drink or eat pork.  People who convert to Islam by and large do not know how much change is demanded - not just by dominant versions of Islam, but by the Muslims themselves.  If you look at our dawahganda societies, the literature they give out, the "conversations" they have with people don't cover these issues at all.  You certainly aren't told, as an interested non-muslim, that some Muslims consider sitting on couches & chairs to be bida, that TV, music, etc are haram or considered very doubtful, that racism is rife in the community and that as a convert you will be held to stricter standards of behaviour.  I don't know about Kim or others, but I certainly was told many, many times that wearing hijab is a private choice and that it wasn't that important, that faith was, etc. and then suddenly once you're past the shahada you're slammed as a whore, fake Muslim, disobedient, etc for not wearing jilbab your first day out the gate.

http://ofglitnir.wordpress.com/2008/09/17/for-what-reason/

[Hassan]

http://ofglitnir.wordpress.com/2008/09/17/for-what-reason/

Excellent article - thanks 

[Manat]

Yes, I think so in some cases. The sense of being part of a supportive community with a strong sense of unity.

I think the fairy tale of unity can be quite interesting to some people, but in reality you see a lot more cohesion and support in different Christian sects than you do in Muslim ones.  Although, when people weren't paying attention to Islam that much, the Muslims did a good job of selling the image of the ummah to people.  I think now that divisions are more out in the open.

I was Muslim for many years before I ever had anything to do with Muslims.  It was clear from the start that I was not going to be welcomed, and any time I tried to approach the masjid I was rebuffed due to gender or race.   It was the salafis who proved to be most accepting and striving for that true brotherhood, in my life experience (of course, then they fell a part in a storm of recrimination and mutual condemnation and bayans and all that -- but it was based on ideology and not gender or race or economic status, like in the other masjids).

[Manat]

i agree with you hassan, sometimes its about trying something new, when i was a muslim i met new converts who kind of felt elevated by simple things in islam like "washing their private parts with water after they urinated"

When I first learned about istinja, I thought 'What the fuck?' but now I see how sensible it is.  The thing is, even though Islam teaches it, it's fairly widespread in Eastern cultures, from what I know.  I don't know if bidets are used widely in Europe, but they're definitely not on this side of the pond.  It just makes sense.  In America, they now market these wipes to clean yourself with.  So you pay $3 for a box of wipes, using paper, plastic, and the chemicals, when you could install a hose like in the Arab countries or use a lota and use the water from your sink for free - without the packaging and plastic and purchasing refills. 

..or one convert to islam from christianity i know said the reason he converted to islam was that in christianity he only went to church on sundays and he thought to himself God deserves to be worshiped more than once a week so he embraced islam because he gets to praise his "creator" 5 times a day...

I think seeing the hypocrisy of many Christians and Christian churches - sinning six days a week, then turning around and getting all pious on Sunday - is something that drives people away, and some of those people see in Islam a vision where you connect with god everyday, not just on Sundays.  Of course, they don't know or realize that a lot of Muslims are hypocrites too - hypocrisy doesn't know a religion, but I can see where people who believe in god get fed up with the attitudes of some members of different sects that they can do whatever they want and treat people however they like as long as they ask Jebus for forgiveness on Sunday. 

[Manat]

Excellent article - thanks 

 

[Manat]

That is what I admire about the Islamic communities that surround us in neighbouring countries, the way family is important to them.  Traditionally we are also like that, although things are changing.

In my younger years, when Salafism was really strong, I personally saw that, and the desire for discipline seemed to be the big reasons that people were Muslim.  For those who don't know, Salafism in America was very strong in the ghetto areas.  Sometimes it would be the only masjid in town or the only one where they spoke English.  In some cities in the US, they controlled the entire Muslim community, and I lived in one of those cities.  The only version of Islam was their version. 

There was so much emphasis on order and proper patriarchal families, and this longing to achieve these things, but in reality, the uprbringing that people brought with them into Islam and the atmosphere of the neighbourhood were there and were not going away.  Our masjids were in the hood and the jamaat was afflicted with hood problems.   Especially in the 1990s when crime was really out of control and crack and heroin were flooding the streets.  A lot of people became Salafi Muslims and came from families where parents were in prison or dead or on drugs and they were raised in the system or by a grandparent, etc.  Islam offered order, discipline, structure, consistency, but people didn't realize - you don't throw away your problems when you take your shahada.  I  knew so many people who couldn't stay married more than two months or so.  Most of my friends were married and divorced multiple times, they had children with different men, they were on welfare, they were in "polygamy", and so on.  Umar Lee.com had a series of post examining the problems of the culture that was admired by a lot of people, even though he's sort of a tosser himself.  When I met Muslims who were born into the Nation and then raised in the Warith Deen version of Sunni Islam, it was the first time I met American Muslims who were middle class, had stable jobs, education, families, etc. 

[proudmuslim]

i read your blog here, and i am not one to judge...i know sisters that have taken hijab off, and as shocking as it may feel, in the end, the person has the exact same personality....the only thing you did wrong was go so public about your opinions of islam then sit here today and take them back....so i guess what im trying to say is put yourself in a muslims pair of shoes and see the other side of the ball. You say muslims are being hypocrites, yet arent you by saying you believe in this then take back your opinion of the religion? Just somthing for you to think about....

[Mixu Paatelainen]

i read your blog here, and i am not one to judge...i know sisters that have taken hijab off, and as shocking as it may feel, in the end, the person has the exact same personality....the only thing you did wrong was go so public about your opinions of islam then sit here today and take them back....so i guess what im trying to say is put yourself in a muslims pair of shoes and see the other side of the ball. You say muslims are being hypocrites, yet arent you by saying you believe in this then take back your opinion of the religion? Just somthing for you to think about....

That is not being hypocritical. That is changing one's mind and opinion about something.

[IsLame]

i read your blog here, and i am not one to judge...i know sisters that have taken hijab off, and as shocking as it may feel, in the end, the person has the exact same personality....the only thing you did wrong was go so public about your opinions of islam then sit here today and take them back....so i guess what im trying to say is put yourself in a muslims pair of shoes and see the other side of the ball. You say muslims are being hypocrites, yet arent you by saying you believe in this then take back your opinion of the religion? Just somthing for you to think about....

Have you ever changed your mind about something - how did you punish yourself afterwards?

[Hassan]

i read your blog here, and i am not one to judge...i know sisters that have taken hijab off, and as shocking as it may feel, in the end, the person has the exact same personality....the only thing you did wrong was go so public about your opinions of islam then sit here today and take them back....so i guess what im trying to say is put yourself in a muslims pair of shoes and see the other side of the ball. You say muslims are being hypocrites, yet arent you by saying you believe in this then take back your opinion of the religion? Just somthing for you to think about....

Does the same apply to the very many Muslim converts who went public about becoming Muslim and do a great deal more than Kim to promote their new beliefs?

Why is it wrong to say publicly you are a Muslim then say publicly you are not?

Is it a sin to change your mind?

[ExKimDonesia]

Welcome KimDonesia, I mean EX-KimDonesia lol. I know this was late. We are all glad you joined here and not that stupid faith freedom website. If you need any help from us, please let us know and we would love to be of help

Thanks. Faith Freedom seems a little biased to me. Full of converts to Christianity, though correct me if I'm wrong. One delusion to another. 

[ExKimDonesia]

Welcome and well done on leaving Islam!

I'm not gonna lie, I had never heard of you previously but I just looked you up on youtube!

Could I ask you how old you are? And how old were you when you became Muslim? Its just you seem quite young and seem to have had some remarkable experiences for one so young!

That is so true!

I decided to convert to Islam when I was 15-years-old... I converted when I was 16, and I am now 18 and a fresh murtad. Chyeahhh.

[ExKimDonesia]

Ditto 

Also welcome to the forums. Well done on publicising about your apostasy, I wish I could do it as well.

Trust me... It's not fudgin' easy at all. Hate mail and death threats left and right.

[RIBS]

Trust me... It's not fudgin' easy at all. Hate mail and death threats left and right.

Don't worry Kim, mostly these threats are just bubbles! But still annoying I agree! Welcome to the forums by the way! 

[ExKimDonesia]

The same old same old.  She / he never believed, she was a fitnah / sinner, and it was a conspiracy anyway.  I honestly don't know how the west gets anything done, seeing as how we are all engaged, at all times, in conspiracies large and small against Islam.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BuPiOSF3ByI

Hey, speaking of apologetics, I heard a new one today. According to the video above, I and a fellow possibly-an-apostate were actually being paid by a non-Muslim company to act as Muslims then cause Muslims to doubt Islam by apostating publicly.

Oh yeah, it's true... Allah told her that there are non-Muslim organizations spending all their wealth just to stop Islam from spreading. Haha. Funny.  

Though, I'm flattered that they think my acting's that good. In reality, I can't act for shit.

 

(Post modified due to the video showing up in a weird place.)

[ExKimDonesia]

That is not being hypocritical. That is changing one's mind and opinion about something.

Exactly. I say this all the time, but the human mind is constantly evolving. Nothing is permanent. What one believes today may not be what one believes tomorrow. I don't see how uncontrollable change of heart is hypocritical. That's like saying converts to Islam are hypocrites because now they're saying they believe in Islam, when they didn't before.

[ExKimDonesia]

Don't worry Kim, mostly these threats are just bubbles! But still annoying I agree! Welcome to the forums by the way! 

Pleasure to be here.

[ExKimDonesia]

Does the same apply to the very many Muslim converts who went public about becoming Muslim and do a great deal more than Kim to promote their new beliefs?

Why is it wrong to say publicly you are a Muslim then say publicly you are not?

Is it a sin to change your mind?

Apparently so. 

[IsLame]

I don't see how uncontrollable change of heart is hypocritical. That's like saying converts to Islam are hypocrites because now they're saying they believe in Islam, when they didn't before.

Good point 

[RIBS]

Hey Kim, is that you in the avatar? I like the pink heart.