So sick of being from Pakistan

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[Balthier]

I'm so fuckin sick and tired of being from fuckin Pakistan. I got married a few months ago, and applied for family reunification with my wife. But it takes time to process the case. Therefore I've decided to visit my wife in Pakistan in September, but that starts the fun part, and then I am not even thinking of ramadan (which I figured would be the biggest obstacle, but far from it).

Anyway, my parents have a house in Pakistan in a village. Yeah its one of those big houses you see in many Pakistani villages, from where people emigrated to the west. I have no desire to stay at this village. And the house is occupied by my aunt, her husband, their eldest son and his wife and kids. Their son, my cousin, is your regular mullah type, and in addition likes to talk unnecessary crap. So there is another reason not wanting to stay at this house.

Last time I visited my wife in Pakistan, we rented a house in a small town, and stayed their on our own, which was great, because I did not have to put up with other people trying to control our life, and tell us what to do all the time, although that did occur to some extent, but mostly I avoided it. But us staying on our own, caused a huge commotion, because my aunt's youngest son is married to my sister, therefore the people staying at my mother's house, complained to him that I disrespected them by not staying at that house, and how that got people talkin (how awesome is rural Pakistan, eh?)

Also my wife's sister in-law aruged with her in-laws while I was there, and went around tellin people how my wife had uprooted me from my "family", and decided to stay at a seperate house. Now remember, this is my aunt and her family who is in question here, not even my own family (even then I would have prefered to stay on my own).

So when I'm going to visit my wife now, and want similar accommodations as last time, its causing a huge commotion. Its like I'm commiting a crime by wanting to visit my wife. First of all my mother is upset with me because she is bound by her cultural background, which means that she wants me to stay at her house, otherwise I will disrespect my aunt and her family. Of course staying at this house, means staying at a freakin village, and be highly dependent on others for the smallest task. Plus I would not be able to freely be with my wife. And others would have way too much input on how we shoudl spend the day.

Second, my aunt and her family will be pissed because I will for some fuckin strage reason disrespect them by not staying at their house.

And third, my in-laws are upset, because I asked them to find a house I can rent, and this makes them the culprits in their eyes. As they are trying to uproot me from my "family" (notice the quotation marks, THEY ARE NOT MY FUCKIN FAMILY!).

I can't even visit my wife, without everyone and their bother having a say in where and how I should stay with her. Its fuckin tragicomical.

Ps english is not my first language.

[osmanthus]

Sounds like you have a great script there if you can get someone to pay you a stack of money for it and produce the thing.
Bugger to actually have to live it though. I can see why it would drive you nuts. Good luck with them.

[IsLame]

Where are you from?

[King Tut]

I know how you feel man. But its good to know your wife is supporting of you.

[PeruvianSkies]

I hate Pakistan's stupid traditions too. It makes no bloody sense why they don't want you and your wife to have some bloody alone time!

Is there any chance you can both rent a separate house but stay at your aunts every now and then? Is there any room for compromise?

[Nour]

How 'bout this?  Tell them that you really want to start a family of your own but that you are uncomfortable doing it with your wife under the same roof as your family lest someone accidentally pops their head into your room while you are having your 'private moment', therefore you need the privacy in order to be able to do the act which will produce the children which I am sure they are eagerly expecting from you and your wife.

I may not be Pakistani, but I've spent a month in a dusty Punjabi village there and agree that a lot of the customs really do SUCK!  Pakistan is a bad society for individualists and women in general.  I hate seeing how the culture of bribery, lying and hypocracy coupled with Islamic fundamentalism turns perfectly sane individuals into complete arseholes!

I whish you the best of luck Balthier.

[Q-Man]

Ps english is not my first language.

Don't know why you felt like you needed to mention that. No major spelling or grammatical errors, nor awkward use of the language-- in print form, at least, it sounds like a natural and accurate use of the English language. I would have just assumed you were a native speaker if you hadn't said otherwise.

turns perfectly sane individuals into complete arseholes!

Hey Nour, you're an American-- quit using those limey versions of words. It's "assholes". For shame, Nour, for shame.

[Mixu Paatelainen]

What I really hate about Pakistani culture is "izzet" and "besti" (respect and shame) are such a big deal and your post just screamed that. People are opposed to you renting a house because they think that people will think badly of them as they will assume they did not let you stay in their house . It is all about social standing.

[IsLame]

Hey Nour, you're an American-- quit using those limey versions of words. It's "assholes". For shame, Nour, for shame.

Best to differentiate as an ass means something different; Any of several hoofed mammals of the genus Equus, resembling and closely related to the horses but having a smaller build and longer ears, and including the domesticated donkey. (http://www.thefreedictionary.com/ass)

Calling someone a donkey hole doesnt have the same affect

[IsLame]

What I really hate about Pakistani culture is "izzet" and "besti" (respect and shame) are such a big deal and your post just screamed that. People are opposed to you renting a house because they think that people will think badly of them as they will assume they did not let you stay in their house . It is all about social standing.

Also because it means you would prefer not to spend time with them.  It may be true, but is difficult to swallow!

[Nour]

So ironic since backbiting and gossip are frowned upon in Islam yet it seems that gossip is what underpins Pakistani society...

And Q-Man, I use American spelling or limey spelling depending on my mood.  Today I'm in a limey mood!

[PeruvianSkies]

I just had a huge rant on my lj about stupid cultural expectations. I've been home from uni for a few days and I've been yelled at a couple of times already for breaching my boundaries Not sure how I'm going to cope in Pakistan, or even the rest of the summer holidays. I hate this culture.

[IsLame]

I've been home from uni for a few days and I've been yelled at a couple of times already for breaching my boundaries

So what are these huge boundaries you have broken and why are you bothering to go to Pakistan?  I hope they are not planning to marry you off!

[King Tut]

I just had a huge rant on my lj about stupid cultural expectations. I've been home from uni for a few days and I've been yelled at a couple of times already for breaching my boundaries Not sure how I'm going to cope in Pakistan, or even the rest of the summer holidays. I hate this culture.

You are going to Pakistan?

[King Tut]

Don't worry, if they send you to Pakistan, I'll be there too, I am going in a few weeks, I will come rescue you, like they do in the Indian movies!

[spiral dive]

Ahh, seems like a lot of people here are having trouble with Pakistani cultural expectations.

My aunt is involving my mum (her sister) in a lot of drama....same old same old.

[RIBS]

What I really hate about Pakistani culture is "izzet" and "besti" (respect and shame) are such a big deal and your post just screamed that. People are opposed to you renting a house because they think that people will think badly of them as they will assume they did not let you stay in their house . It is all about social standing.

Totally agree with you Aliadiere...

I am not from Pakistan and I think what you just said is true for all Muslim-Tradition based societies anywhere in the world. Whenever I visited a place that have relatives and they found out about me, Hell will break loose!!! I think they not become upset out of generosity (at least not all of the times) but rather afraid of what will the people say... Literally that was what someone told my face to face. He said, you are staying at a hotel and we live here? WHAT WILL PEOPLE SAY? and boy did he make a mistake!!! ......

I snapped at him and did not let it go!! I told him right away, "So it is not that you wished that we stayed at your place because you wanted us to stay with you and chat and have fun, but only because you are afraid from the peoples Gossip?"... He apologized and said that he did not mean it that way...

Anyways, some cultures are terrible especially when combined with illiterate customs that you are not used to!!

[PeruvianSkies]

So what are these huge boundaries you have broken and why are you bothering to go to Pakistan?  I hope they are not planning to marry you off!

They're not huge boundaries, they are tiny and I get yelled at for it anyway! The other day I was helping my mum clean the kitchen, I missed a spot or two that I didn't notice as they were so faint. My mum with her super vision spotted them immediately, yelled at me and just did the cleaning herself! She asked me what my future husbands family is going to think of her for not teaching me properly! Fuck that! I aint cleaning for no one!

When I was a kid I always hung around my male cousins because the girls were so damn boring. Mum constantly had a go at me for that. I didn't care though.

There's loads of other small and big things that piss me off.

Pakistan is a holiday. I haven't got a choice not to go there. Dad wont marry me off though, he's against forced marriages. I have saved the number for the forced marriage unit just in case anyway

[IsLame]

I have saved the number for the forced marriage unit just in case anyway

  you can never be too safe

[Nour]

Good thinking Peruvian!

They're not huge boundaries, they are tiny and I get yelled at for it anyway! The other day I was helping my mum clean the kitchen, I missed a spot or two that I didn't notice as they were so faint. My mum with her super vision spotted them immediately, yelled at me and just did the cleaning herself! She asked me what my future husbands family is going to think of her for not teaching me properly! Fuck that! I aint cleaning for no one.

If I were in your shoes I would tell my mum that I would never marry a man who expected me to be his domestic servant because only a REAL man would help his missus around the house.  Isn't that what the Holy Prophet (pbuh)did?

When I was a kid I always hung around my male cousins because the girls were so damn boring. Mum constantly had a go at me for that. I didn't care though.

Ugh!  Right after I got married I used to go with my hubbie to visit his friends as I had just moved to the UK and knew no one.  I quickly grew tired of being relegated to the kitchen with the Stepford Wives.  I can only handle so much talk about babies and weddings!  How boring and supercilious these women's lives seemed to me.  Although I had a pretty average American childhood compared to most overly sheltered British Asian women (and men) that I know I might as well have been brought up in the hood in Compton, L.A. as far as they were concerned because I didn't have mummy housewife at home 24/7 to cook and clean for me when I came home from school.

[Balthier]

Thanks for the feedback guys. The biggest threat to a pakistani marriage, is undoubtely the family surrouding the married couple. My wife does understand and support me, but at the same time, she does not want to upset anyone. She proposed that I should wait until October, because then my mother can accompany me, and we can all stay at my mother's house, which would not upset/offend anyone, (apart from ME, but who am I to be concerned about my own well being, its not like I am someone important in my own life, right?). I do not want to stay at a village, and be totally dependent on others to get away from the village.

The thing is, I want some alone time with my wife, we just got married, and we have not spent much time with each other, why can't people accept that we need our privacy? The only reason they can not accept it, is because "people will talk/gossip". In that case, I should just go hide behind a fuckin sofa or under a bed, and refuse to come out, because people might talk badly about my decisions in MY life, so why not just play it safe.

Where are you from?

I am from Punjab and europe. Born and raised in europe, while my parents are from punjab, Pakistan.

Is there any chance you can both rent a separate house but stay at your aunts every now and then? Is there any room for compromise?

I will stay at my mother's house the first night. Also, I visited them six to seven times, which is more times than I visited my in-laws, last time I was in Pakistan. So I am already compromising. I also spent 3-4 days traveling around with them. I've also never said that I do not approve of them staying at my parents' house. Its not my house, so why would I care who stays there, as long as those persons have my parents' permission, its their and the owners of the house's business.

[Balthier]

Sorry about the double post, just figured no one would be interested in reading one very long post.

Don't know why you felt like you needed to mention that. No major spelling or grammatical errors, nor awkward use of the language-- in print form, at least, it sounds like a natural and accurate use of the English language. I would have just assumed you were a native speaker if you hadn't said otherwise.

I felt like clarifying it, as I was quite upset when I wrote that post, so I figured I might have made a few errors here and there.

Also because it means you would prefer not to spend time with them.  It may be true, but is difficult to swallow!

I do not mind spending time with them, I just do not want to spend too much time with people I do not have much in common with though, thats just awkward, and they expect me to think and behave like them, ie be 110% updated on everything thats going on in each and every memeber of our family's private life. Which cousin is doing what, with whom, and at what time etc. Its none of my business, why would I care about that? I don't know all the ins and outs of every cousin/uncle/aunt's private life, as I simply don't want to know about others private business.

But of course you come off as dimwitted in the fantastically intelligent society that is rural Pakistan, if you do not know each and every miniscule detail of others private life.

[PeruvianSkies]

Good thinking Peruvian!

If I were in your shoes I would tell my mum that I would never marry a man who expected me to be his domestic servant because only a REAL man would help his missus around the house.  Isn't that what the Holy Prophet (pbuh)did?

I really wanted to say that but I can barely speak punjabi, my mum doesn't speak much english either so we have a huge language barrier.

Ugh!  Right after I got married I used to go with my hubbie to visit his friends as I had just moved to the UK and knew no one.  I quickly grew tired of being relegated to the kitchen with the Stepford Wives.  I can only handle so much talk about babies and weddings!  How boring and supercilious these women's lives seemed to me.  Although I had a pretty average American childhood compared to most overly sheltered British Asian women (and men) that I know I might as well have been brought up in the hood in Compton, L.A. as far as they were concerned because I didn't have mummy housewife at home 24/7 to cook and clean for me when I came home from school.

I don't understand why they don't break out of it! I always seem like one of the few who feels this way

[IsLame]

I really wanted to say that but I can barely speak punjabi, my mum doesn't speak much english either so we have a huge language barrier.

+ cultural barrier - makes it very difficult to keep a happy status quo

[Balthier]

These people right out refuse to progress. Whats wrong with wanting to stay on ones own, when you are newly wed? The worse part is that everyone are able to see it from my point of view, but yet they try to oppose me, because they are bound by their cultural background, and are very weary of what people might say about them, because they too, do talk negatively about others, when those people do something that don't conform to whats considered conventional in rural Pakistan.

Why not just stop talking crap about others, and just fuckin get on with your own fuckin business instead? Live and let live.