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Theme Changer

 Topic: Scientific Miracles in the Qur'an?

 (Read 55636 times)
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  • Scientific Miracles in the Qur'an?
     OP - June 15, 2009, 11:56 AM

    Can anyone post any scientific miracles they have heard Muslims claiming are found in the Qur'an.

    Here are 4 to start you off:

    1. The Qur'an describes fertilization and embyonic growth before such things were known

    2. The Qur'an describes Iron as coming from outer space before this was known.

    3. The Qur'an describes the moon's light as reflected light before this was known.

    4. The Qur'an describes the fact that salt water and fresh-water do not mix before this was known.

    I would like to make a list of the "Top Ten" and then I will consider whether or not to make a video about them.
  • Re: Scientific Miracles in the Qur'an?
     Reply #1 - June 15, 2009, 12:08 PM

    I have listed excerpts from by blog - also Ghazali has a great section in his work, which you will find in the cut & paste area of the ex-muslim section..

    5)  How is man created?  There are many contradictory accounts of how this occurred.

    It tells us "we are created from earth (11:61), sometimes from dry clay (15:26,28,33, 17:61, 32:7), sometimes from nothing (19:67), sometimes not from nothing (52:35), sometimes from wet earth (23:12), or from mire (38:71), sometimes from water (25:54, 21:30, 24:45), sometimes from dust (3:59, 30:20, 35:11) or even sometimes from the dead (30:19, 39:6)".

    The beauty of such multifaceted science, is you might strike it lucky with one

    6) the earth is flat

    7) A believer eats in one intestine whereas a non-believer eats in seven intestines. Muslim Vol. III, Nos. 5113, chapter DCCCLXII

    Number 592: Narrated Abu Huraira: I heard Allah's Apostle saying, "There is healing in black seed for all diseases except death."

    9)  Here the Prophet Mohammed advocated using camel?s urine and milk as medicine:

    According to Anas, Volume 8, Bk 82, No794: Some people from the tribe of 'Ukl came to the Prophet and embraced Islam. The climate of Medina did not suit them, so the Prophet ordered them to go to the (herd of milch) camels of charity and to drink, their milk and urine. They did so, and after they had recovered from their ailment (became healthy) they turned renegades (reverted from Islam) and killed the shepherd of the camels and took the camels away. The Prophet sent (some people) in their pursuit and so they were (caught and) brought, and the 90 Prophets ordered that their hands and legs should be cut off and that their eyes should be branded with heated pieces of iron, and that their cut hands and legs should not be cauterized, till they die.

    10) A man came to the prophet and said, ?My brother has got loose motions (diarrhea). The Prophet said, Let him drink honey. The man again (came) and said, "I made him drink (honey) but that made him worse" The Prophet said, ?Allah has said the Truth, and the abdomen of your brother has told a lie?. Bukhari  Volume 7, Book 71, Number 614

    11)  The discovery of the healing properties of dipping flies in one?s food as described in this hadith: Number 673: Narrated Abu Huraira: Allah's Apostle said, "If a fly falls in the vessel of any of you, let him dip all of it (into the vessel) and then throw it away, for in one of its wings there is a disease and in the other there is healing (antidote for it) i e. the treatment for that disease."

    Conclusion
    If you study the Quran and Arabic History, much of the Quranic science is based around ancient Arabic folklore and based on many prevailing pagan rituals at the time.  The few of the correct claims were actually already extant among the prevailing religions (such as Christianity) and  philosophers of the earlier times.  

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  • Re: Scientific Miracles in the Qur'an?
     Reply #2 - June 15, 2009, 12:10 PM

    Isn't there something about a Pharoah's body being found that's supposedly predicted in the Qur'an?

    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Re: Scientific Miracles in the Qur'an?
     Reply #3 - June 15, 2009, 12:23 PM

    2 more:

    12)  The Quran says a baby is born by a sperm turning into a blood clot, and then into a lump. Out of the lump, bones are formed and then on the bones flesh is placed.
    (Actually organs and flesh are the first that begin cellular division and formation. Later, as the child grows, bone structures begin to develop along with organs and flesh.)
     
    13)  Semen comes from your back  Huh? 

    'Nutfah' (semen) is mentioned in verse 86:6, is the fluid issued from between the loins and ribs, not, as we know today, from the testicles. This reflects the mistaken view of Hippocrates still prevalent at the time of Muhammad.
     dance

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  • Re: Scientific Miracles in the Qur'an?
     Reply #4 - June 15, 2009, 12:34 PM

    14)  Another lauded example is when the Quran  states that the embryo behaves like a leech, and is similar to "a piece of chewing gum"

    Leech like behaviour would be inherently obvious during birth with to the umbilical cord being attached to the baby, and the bleeding when it is removed.

    Regarding chewed gum, I wonder if any small, not fully formed, organism could be described in this way.

    None of these facts would be considered as miraclulous predictions if they were read with the same integrity as you would expect from a serious piece of research. 

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  • Re: Scientific Miracles in the Qur'an?
     Reply #5 - June 15, 2009, 12:34 PM

    Isn't there a part of the Qur'an which says that the sun and moon cannot catch up with each other, or something like that?  Allah never heard of eclipses, obviously.   Tongue

    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Re: Scientific Miracles in the Qur'an?
     Reply #6 - June 15, 2009, 12:42 PM

    The Quran predicting the speed of light.

    Big Bang

    Round Earth

    Planet orbits

    Formation of petrol
  • Re: Scientific Miracles in the Qur'an?
     Reply #7 - June 15, 2009, 01:18 PM

    Isn't there something about a Pharoah's body being found that's supposedly predicted in the Qur'an?


    The Qur'anic verse "We shall save you in your body this day, so that you may become a sign to all posterity." (Koran: 10:92) is used by scholars to claim that Islam predicted the discoveries of mummies of ancient Pharaohs in the last couple hundred years.

    Knowing Islam is the only true religion we do not allow propagation of any other religion. How can we allow building of churches and temples when their religion is wrong? Thus we will not allow such wrong things in our countries. - Zakir Naik
  • Re: Scientific Miracles in the Qur'an?
     Reply #8 - June 15, 2009, 01:39 PM

    The Qur'anic verse "We shall save you in your body this day, so that you may become a sign to all posterity." (Koran: 10:92) is used by scholars to claim that Islam predicted the discoveries of mummies of ancient Pharaohs in the last couple hundred years.

    Talk about stretching a translation!

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  • Re: Scientific Miracles in the Qur'an?
     Reply #9 - June 15, 2009, 01:41 PM

    I have read Muslims claim Islam mentions somwhere the moon being split in half. And then they claim that science has proved that it has been split in half indeed.

    Do not look directly at the operational end of the device.
  • Re: Scientific Miracles in the Qur'an?
     Reply #10 - June 15, 2009, 01:43 PM

    I have read Muslims claim Islam mentions somwhere the moon being split in half. And then they claim that science has proved that it has been split in half indeed.

    moon looked whole to me last time i checked  Huh?  Whoever broke the moon in half should go into the naughty corner.

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  • Re: Scientific Miracles in the Qur'an?
     Reply #11 - June 15, 2009, 02:34 PM

    moon looked whole to me last time i checked  Huh?  Whoever broke the moon in half should go into the naughty corner.

    I didn't quite get it either :S

    Do not look directly at the operational end of the device.
  • Re: Scientific Miracles in the Qur'an?
     Reply #12 - June 15, 2009, 02:40 PM

    moon looked whole to me last time i checked  Huh?  Whoever broke the moon in half should go into the naughty corner.

    http://apod.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap021029.html
    That indent is used as 'proof' Roll Eyes
  • Re: Scientific Miracles in the Qur'an?
     Reply #13 - June 15, 2009, 03:09 PM

    I have read Muslims claim Islam mentions somwhere the moon being split in half. And then they claim that science has proved that it has been split in half indeed.

    Instead of being a miracle, that one should go down as a Quranic Fallacy

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  • Re: Scientific Miracles in the Qur'an?
     Reply #14 - June 15, 2009, 07:45 PM

    As if by divine providence - on a forum where I said Muhammad wrote the Qur'an - I was rebuffed with the "Scientific Miracles" of the Qur'an that is was impossible for Muhammad to know... impossible!

    http://www.themuslimzone.com/showthread.php/makes-you-sure-islam-true-3187.html?p=25480

    Ukhti (Her user name)

    where did you come up with such a belief?

    it is utterly impossible for Muhammad to manufacture such a book

    I ask you, the Qur'an and its many scientific evidences

    How did Muhammad (saws), an uneducated shepeard, a man born in the desert, a man that could not read or write, how in the world, could he produce something such as the Qur'an, which makes such clear and astounding scientifc statements?

    Did he have a telescope? Some kinda x ray vision? Super powers? How did he recieve such knowledge that was just discovered 25, 30 years ago?

    How did he know that the oceans have a barrier between them to seperate the salt and fresh water?
    What about the many planets that are swimming in orbits? How did he know that? How did he know that the embryo started out as a clot hanging to the wall of the uterus of the mother? & I can go on and on and on, how did he know that?

    impossible

    impossible
  • Re: Scientific Miracles in the Qur'an?
     Reply #15 - June 15, 2009, 07:46 PM

    My reply:

    Most Arabs were illiterate - but it did not stop them producing oral literature, such as the great qasidas of pre-islamic poetry. The young apprentice poet would learn from the master his phrases and imagery and did not need to write things down. It was a society that learnt literature by heart (Hifz) and not writing.

    The fact that Muhammad could not read or write is irrelevant.

    As for the claims of scientific facts there is no claim that cannot be shown to be false - either it was known about or it depends on dubious tafsir - or both.

    The Salt water/Fresh water one for example was written about by Aristotle many years before Muhammad:

    "The drinkable, sweet water, then, is light and is all of it drawn up: the salt water is heavy and remains behind," (Meteorology Book 2 Chapter 2)

    Regarding Embryology, Greek physicians, such as Galen already described a similar process as that in the Qur'an - in fact it looks suspiciously plagiarized from Greek books where diagrams of the embryos development have been drawn.

    As for verses about swimming in orbits, the words used simply don't mean orbits and even if they did - again it would not contradict known beliefs that the planets etc... moved round in orbits, (though they believed everything moved around the earth which was the centre of the universe - and there is nothing in the Qur'an that contradicts this false belief.)

    Oh and please do go on and on...

  • Re: Scientific Miracles in the Qur'an?
     Reply #16 - June 15, 2009, 07:55 PM

    Listen - I would like to make this video about the scientific miracles... BUT... I am really LAZY and just a cursory building of evidence that I can already see is out there - just makes me feel I can't be bothered (I said I was lazy didn't I?).

    Sooooo.... if anyone is really keen for me to make this vid you can do TWO things for me and I will do it.

    1. Make a list of the 10 most important scientific miracles.

    2. Search the debunks that are out there (i.e. faithfreedom has most of them covered - answering-islam has a few good articles too - also there are the youtube vids by people like philhelenes and others...)

    Personally I have NEVER thought much of these so-called scietific miracles so they have never loomed large in my mind - and so I have no personal motivation to make such a vid.

    I do however appreciate that many Muslims seem to find such evidence important.

    So if others can help me - I'll do it.

    But if no-one can be bothered - then neither can I  grin12



  • Re: Scientific Miracles in the Qur'an?
     Reply #17 - June 15, 2009, 08:01 PM

    I'd quite enjoy doing the research of how to debunk them, personally.  Its up to ex-muslims to pinpoint which ten are the most important though, I wouldn't have a clue.

    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Re: Scientific Miracles in the Qur'an?
     Reply #18 - June 15, 2009, 08:09 PM

    I'd quite enjoy doing the research of how to debunk them, personally.  Its up to ex-muslims to pinpoint which ten are the most important though, I wouldn't have a clue.


    Brilliant - then go for it Cheetah - you can start with Embryology which is probably number one. Don't worry about any Arabic stuff - just post what you find - I will correct anything I need to Smiley
  • Re: Scientific Miracles in the Qur'an?
     Reply #19 - June 15, 2009, 08:10 PM

    Brilliant - then go for it Cheetah - you can start with Embryology which is probably number one. Don't worry about any Arabic stuff - just post what you find - I will correct anything I need to Smiley


    OK.   Afro

    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Re: Scientific Miracles in the Qur'an?
     Reply #20 - June 15, 2009, 08:48 PM

    I'm in, I'll have a go at listing my top ten out of what has been listed here.

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  • Re: Scientific Miracles in the Qur'an?
     Reply #21 - June 15, 2009, 09:12 PM

    Here they are - I have split them down into logical headings & sub-headings, so they dont number exactly 10.

    1) Big Bang
    2) Universe - earth at its core, The Qur'an describes Iron as coming from outer space before this was known.
    3) Moon - splitting in half of moon, moon's light as reflected light before this was known
    4) Earth - flat or round, with mountains that act as pegs, salt water is denser, describes the fact that salt
    water and freshwater do not mix
    5) Mans creation - clay, mire, dust, water or from the dead?
    6) Embryology - sperm production, and zygote formation, and similarity to a chewed gum & a leech
    7) Medical - camels urine, black seed & fly's wings as antidotes

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  • Re: Scientific Miracles in the Qur'an?
     Reply #22 - June 15, 2009, 09:32 PM

    The claims of embryology in the Qur'an originated with Professor Keith Moore, a former professor of Anatomy at the University of Toronto, Canada, who at one stage worked at the King Abdulaziz University in Jeddah, Saudi Arabia.  In the early 1980s this man produced a special edition of his standard textbook on embryology after claiming that he was ""astonished by the accuracy of the statements that were recorded in the 7th century AD, before the science of embryology was established"

    He has since achieved a similar level of fame among muslims as Maurice Bucaille, although like Bucaille, he never converted to Islam despite having apparently proven that the Qur'an was the word of God.   Roll Eyes

    Some info about him here....

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keith_L._Moore

    There's so much wrong with the claims Moore made, I'll just leave it till tomorrow to organise and summarise it all, I'm too tired tonight.  (In a nutshell, Mohammed plagiarised it all off Galen, including all Galen's mistakes).  In the meantime, this video might be of interest......

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=64Hpk8qiOWk&feature=channel_page

    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Re: Scientific Miracles in the Qur'an?
     Reply #23 - June 15, 2009, 09:47 PM

    good video  Afro

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  • Re: Scientific Miracles in the Qur'an?
     Reply #24 - June 15, 2009, 10:07 PM

    A great idea, Hassan  grin12 I can only contribute intermittently at the moment but would love help whenever I can get onto Internet.

    A question to all, though - should the number miracles be included as scientific miracles?

    I think it would be really useful to debunk all that rubbish, as i think it's really pernicious. I'm not a 100% sure that my partner really believes the Qu'ran is direct from God - he tends to evade the question somewhat -  but I do remember that that he was really impressed when he learned about the number "proofs"  for the book's "divine" origin. For those, like him and myself, who are pretty allergic to maths and numbers, it's sooooo easy to befuddle, impress and convince using this baloney.
    i did find a very concise, elegant debunking site - but will have to search for it again. That is if you think it useful to include the subject?

    Meanwhile, here's a site I just found - you may already know it - found it funny as there are 10 "new" miracles listed at present - maybe more tomorrow.... who knows

    http://miraclesofthequran.com/


  • Re: Scientific Miracles in the Qur'an?
     Reply #25 - June 15, 2009, 10:39 PM

    A question to all, though - should the number miracles be included as scientific miracles?

    I think it would be really useful to debunk all that rubbish, as i think it's really pernicious. I'm not a 100% sure that my partner really believes the Qu'ran is direct from God - he tends to evade the question somewhat -  but I do remember that that he was really impressed when he learned about the number "proofs"  for the book's "divine" origin. For those, like him and myself, who are pretty allergic to maths and numbers, it's sooooo easy to befuddle, impress and convince using this baloney.

    You're thinking of stuff like this?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivan_Panin
    http://cs.anu.edu.au/~bdm/dilugim/panin.html

    Standard rubbish. Can be applied to any text with similar "miraculous" results. Try it on a trash novel and see how you go.  Wink

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: Scientific Miracles in the Qur'an?
     Reply #26 - June 15, 2009, 10:44 PM

    Yes, actually the number miracle seems to be one of the most popular ones at the moment, so cheetah add that one on too.

    He is my debunk of it, based on your help last time:

    Quote
    Christians have done the same with the Bible, Jews with the Talmud, along with Dan Brown fans with the Da Vinci Code too.  They all point to one thing in my opinion, and I will try to explain it with the help of some analogies.
    Attempts to find cryptograms in Shakespeare's works, which tended to report results only for those passages of Shakespeare for which the theory produced a positive result. This could be explained as an example of the fallacy because passages which do not match the theory have not been accounted for. The fallacy could also be an explanation for cryptograms in the Bible.
    You may be familiar with the Hong Kong telephone directory or the Texas sharpshooter analogy (about a cowboy that fire a round of bullets at a barn door, then draws the target around the bullets to show how good he is with the gun).  They are fallacies related to the clustering illusion fallacy which refers to the tendency in human cognition to interpret patterns in randomness where none actually exist.

    Michael Drosnin once made a challenge with this statement:
     
    "When my critics find a message about the assassination of a prime minister encrypted in Moby Dick, I'll believe them." (Newsweek, Jun 9, 1997)

    After reading the evidence in this thread http://cs.anu.edu.au/~bdm/dilugim/moby.html we might come to the conclusion that Moby Dick really predicted the assassinations of famous prime ministers.


    The numerological miracle of Edgar Allan Poe's poetry  

    The following example is an expansion of one first presented on USENET

    For this example, we will use numerical values for English letters assigned using the same pattern as used for Arabic, Greek and Hebrew.

    A=1 B=2 C=3 D=4 E=5 F=6 G=7 H=8 I=9
    J=10 K=20 L=30 M=40 N=50 O=60 P=70 Q=80 R=90
    S=100 T=200 U=300 V=400 W=500 X=600 Y=700 Z=800

    We will analyse the famous first line of Poe's classic poem "The Raven":

    Once upon a midnight dreary, while I pondered, weak and weary

    * There are 7x7 letters.
    * The first and last words sum to 202x7, of which the first letters contribute 80x7.
    * The consonants in words starting with a consonant sum to 537x7.
    * The consonants in words ending with a consonant sum to 485x7, of which 192x7 comes from the odd length words and 293x7 from the even length words.
    * The consonants in words 2,4,6,8,10 sum to 177x7.
    * There are 7 words ending with consonants.
    * There are 3x7 consonants in words of even length.
    * Considering words 1,3,5,7,9,11:
    * There are 3x7 letters.
    * The even (2,4,6..) letters in each word total 138x7.
    * The last letters of each word total 205x7.
    * The first and last letters of each word total 51x7x7.
    * Considering the verb "pondered":
    * The first letter has value 10x7.
    * The vowels have total value 10x7.


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  • Re: Scientific Miracles in the Qur'an?
     Reply #27 - June 15, 2009, 10:46 PM

    Here's a funny pic I got from FFI...  Cheesy


    .
  • Re: Scientific Miracles in the Qur'an?
     Reply #28 - June 15, 2009, 10:46 PM

    Absolutely osmanthus !!!  Afro
    It is in fact so easy to debunk - but seems to impress a lot of people - that's why I think it would be worth including - I'm sure Hassan could come up with some kind of comedy approach - a comedy of errors, maybe.
  • Re: Scientific Miracles in the Qur'an?
     Reply #29 - June 15, 2009, 11:28 PM

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fKGurZJO3hM&feature=PlayList&p=CAA8469DB92717D7&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=8

    please read my blog, read how islam will win
    the clash of civilization.

    http://www.xanga.com/hfghj23458654fgha
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