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Theme Changer

 Topic: Death Threats

 (Read 6624 times)
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  • Death Threats
     OP - May 27, 2009, 12:57 PM

    The National Student has discovered that a death threat made during an atheist event in Leeds is the latest example of ongoing opposition and alleged prejudice towards atheist societies on campus.

    During an event held between April 19th - 25th called ?Rationalist Week 09? organised by Leeds University Atheist Society and billed as ?the country?s largest atheist festival? a member of the society allegedly received a face to face death threat.

    It is said the student, who wished to remain anonymous, was threatened while patrolling outside the festival tent at night. The victim in question has decided not to go to the police, but police in Leeds are now investigating vandalism that also occurred during the event.
    This is the second death threat received by the society, the last one being made by university?s Muslim society member?s state. They believe that this most recent threat may have also been made by the same people.

    The previous death threat was made because the Leeds University Atheist Society wanted to show material in a debate about free speech that was deemed offensive to Islam, in this case the infamous Danish cartoons.

    News of the death threat and vandalism in Leeds came on the same day that the Southampton University Atheist Society were finally permitted, after 2 months extensive blocks from their Muslim Society and SU, to hold a debate on the limits of free speech.

    The debate was only permitted with police presence and security guard searches of student attendees, who claimed they were treated with suspicion and made to feel like they?d done something wrong.

    The Pro Vice Chancellor attended and thanked the Atheist Soc for making a vital contribution to campus life by standing up for freedom of speech.

    The process started two months ago Southampton Atheist Society sought to run a debate about freedom of speech featuring a screening of Geert Wilders? controversial anti-Islamic short-film ?Fitna?.

    The university?s Muslim Society launched a petition which gained much support gathering 180 signatures against the event.

    In response the students? union intervened in the running of the event putting some conditions on the Atheist Society for them to be allowed to proceed. The atheists had to hire security guards when traditionally, Southampton societies don?t charge students for anything and have no income, and the event could only take place with police presence.

    The motives of the atheists were also questioned - it was suggested that they wanted to show the film to stir up religious hatred and debate the validity of Islam. These accusations were met with outrage from members of the Atheist Society.

    Between February and April it seemed possible that the Atheist Society was going to collapse due to public pressure.

    However, Jens Christensen, President of the Atheist Soc made persistent efforts to claim that freedom of speech and whether or how it should be limited was the subject of the debate and nothing more.

    Eventually the screening went ahead on Tuesday April 21, the same week in which Leeds Atheist Society received further death threats.

    It is claimed that before entering the venue, some of the 20-25 students had food and drink confiscated and were frisked by police and security.


    Muslim students were invited to the event but none attended on the evening. The event began with a speech by the Pro Vice Chancellor, Debra Humphris, outlining what the event was about and appealing for good conduct with no violence.

    The debate concluded that there should be no limits on free speech, although suggested that the vulnerable could be manipulated by propaganda like Fitna.
    A second year physicist called Joss concluded: ?You can?t get rid of hateful ideas by silencing them - that just drives them underground where they get worse. It?s only by hearing these ideas that you can reply to them with counter arguments.?

    In response the Muslim Society are responding with a talk called ?An Intellectual Response to the Concept of Freedom of Speech?.

    The Atheist Society have set up a joking petition to allow the event to go ahead without any fuss.
    Speaking at the debate Jens Christensen, said, ?I advocate free speech because it is pragmatically observed to be a good way of doing things. Good ideas tend to resonate more than bad ones, and hence our civilization benefits from everyone being able to speak freely. ?Hate speech? is a sub category of ?free speech?, typically it is intentionally offensive, based almost solely on personal opinions and designed to rally one population at the expense of another. The problem is that almost all opinions fielded about society from the most banal comment on public spending to the vile rantings of a white supremacist would fall somewhat into this category, and so the very act of judging if language counts as hate speech is subjective. Who is it offensive to??

    ?We can?t really judge it by its inoffensiveness to a majority, since then a racial slur against a minority would really not an issue.?

    Chlo? Clifford-Frith, AHS Press Officer told The National Student that she believes atheist and agnostic students are experiencing prejudice on campus, ?One of the reasons the AHS exists is to support uni groups who experience these problems. The level of suspicion with which the atheist societies have been treated in both cases is sadly quite common and a readily understood prejudice. There is a popular idea at present is that religious beliefs should be protected from criticism, because the religious are easily offended. This is misguided, not to mention rather patronising to religious people, because while human beings inherently deserve respect, ideas are open for debate. This a crucial aspect of a free society.?

    ?Student Unions may feel pressured to automatically side with religious groups because of the current trend, and religious groups are increasingly demanding immunity from having their ideas discussed. It should be noted that in both incidents neither of the Muslim Societies were actually even being targeted for criticism.?

    She also explained that there are many examples of such prejudice on campus and in wider society, ?Leeds have experienced death threats, vandalism, theft and SU discrimination in the past. Warwick Atheists were also stripped of their ?Best New Society? award and prize money in 2008 after a complaint that a poster for one of their talks was offensive. The award, but not the prize money was returned some months later. Some societies have experienced problems with their SUs refusing to ratify their existence. Again, this is symptomatic of a wider suspicion of people who profess to be atheists - as if there is something threatening about not believing in a god or gods. Even Prof Richard Dawkins, when attempting to set up the charitable educational foundation ?The Richard Dawkins Foundation for Reason and Science?, had his forms returned to him with the suspicious question: ?Please explain how ?science? has benefited humanity?!?

    Still under the banner of AHS atheist students are looking to expand the voice of non-religious students on campus. It is their aim to help at least 15 universities hold a ?Rationalist Week next year and regardless of the problems the Leeds event has been considered a success.

    The Leeds event ran for 24 hours a day for 7 days in a large tent baring a ?there is no god? sign over the entrance. It was the festival?s third year and it is expected, once again, to draw crowds of hundreds across the week. Events can even be watched online via a live webfeed.

    A programme of interfaith and other educational events included ?It?s Only Water? - concerning homeopathic medicine, a church service to the cult god the Flying Spaghetti Monster and the ironic ?Why are evil dictators always atheists??.
     

    http://www.national-student.co.uk/pages/uk_news/atheists_hit_with_death_threats.html

    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Re: Death Threats
     Reply #1 - May 27, 2009, 01:07 PM

    Fitna? :shakes head:
  • Re: Death Threats
     Reply #2 - May 27, 2009, 01:14 PM

    Ah, ISoc. How I miss university.

    While I never got death threats, I used to get plenty of abuse off ISoc members when I was an editor for the student newspaper on campus. They didn't like articles published that were "islamophobic", which basically meant anything that refered to Islam but didn't shower it with praise.
  • Re: Death Threats
     Reply #3 - May 27, 2009, 01:54 PM

    Ah, ISoc. How I miss university.

    While I never got death threats, I used to get plenty of abuse off ISoc members when I was an editor for the student newspaper on campus. They didn't like articles published that were "islamophobic", which basically meant anything that refered to Islam but didn't shower it with praise.


    Which University did you go to?

    The unlived life is not worth examining.
  • Re: Death Threats
     Reply #4 - May 27, 2009, 01:57 PM

    Wow, this is really quite exciting! Maybe I should get more involved with my Student Union. They had an election recently and I just completely ignored it because I assumed it was just all not-worth-bothering-with-stuff, like, the sort of stuff a JCR for a Hall of Residence do. Hmmm.

    Can I ask, how many people on this forum go to University? And which University?

    The unlived life is not worth examining.
  • Re: Death Threats
     Reply #5 - May 27, 2009, 02:15 PM

    It may not be a good idea for people to start posting which universities they currently go to. It's a small world, especially with regards to issues like apostacy.
  • Re: Death Threats
     Reply #6 - May 27, 2009, 02:45 PM

    I think it's time ex-muslims start to come out of the closet a bit more as long as they are safe. Hassan has done it quite well Smiley Anybody up for starting an Ex-muslim Soc at uni? Tongue
  • Re: Death Threats
     Reply #7 - May 27, 2009, 03:41 PM

    I think it's time ex-muslims start to come out of the closet a bit more as long as they are safe. Hassan has done it quite well Smiley Anybody up for starting an Ex-muslim Soc at uni? Tongue


    Do you go to uni? If so, please tell which.

    The unlived life is not worth examining.
  • Re: Death Threats
     Reply #8 - May 28, 2009, 12:10 PM

    The university?s Muslim Society launched a petition which gained much support gathering 180 signatures against the event.


    They just do it for the hell of it! They don't see a difference between something which they disagree with and something which should be banned, in which case they're just plain immature. It's like when I read people who say "This book is great! Everybody should be compelled to read it!" Or what?! Get shot?! Or vice versa when they say "This book is horrible. Should be banned."

    Either that or they're actually clever and using their democratic freedoms to be snidy bastards and get their own selfish way. Don't they understand how serious freedom of speech is?

    Quote
    In response the Muslim Society are responding with a talk called ?An Intellectual Response to the Concept of Freedom of Speech?.


    I guess they don't... So they're actually publicly declaring that they're against free speech? Okay I'll cross out the bit about them being clever. They're definitely NOT clever, just plain immature.

    The unlived life is not worth examining.
  • Re: Death Threats
     Reply #9 - May 28, 2009, 12:55 PM

    Quote from: J4m3z
    Quote
    In response the Muslim Society are responding with a talk called ?An Intellectual Response to the Concept of Freedom of Speech?.


    I guess they don't... So they're actually publicly declaring that they're against free speech? Okay I'll cross out the bit about them being clever. They're definitely NOT clever, just plain immature.


    Yes, all ISocs are quite public about their opposition to free speech. Sometimes is just blatent; "this is offensive to our religion so it must be banned". The ones better versed in PR "We support free speech, but........this is just too offensive/we can't possibily support this/I feel intimidated by this" (delete as appropriate)
  • Re: Death Threats
     Reply #10 - May 28, 2009, 01:38 PM

    Quote from: J4m3z
    Quote
    In response the Muslim Society are responding with a talk called ?An Intellectual Response to the Concept of Freedom of Speech?.


    I guess they don't... So they're actually publicly declaring that they're against free speech? Okay I'll cross out the bit about them being clever. They're definitely NOT clever, just plain immature.


    Yes, all ISocs are quite public about their opposition to free speech. Sometimes is just blatent; "this is offensive to our religion so it must be banned". The ones better versed in PR "We support free speech, but........this is just too offensive/we can't possibily support this/I feel intimidated by this" (delete as appropriate)


    Yeh, I think most Isocs are of the PR kind who want to look appealing.

    Mr. Silly, do you still have any connections with the universities you went to? Were thinking of doing some kind of E-Isoc  Wink

    The unlived life is not worth examining.
  • Re: Death Threats
     Reply #11 - May 28, 2009, 01:43 PM

    I have some limited  connections, but these fade as people move out and on from universities. What did you have in mind?
  • Re: Death Threats
     Reply #12 - May 28, 2009, 02:13 PM

    I have some limited  connections, but these fade as people move out and on from universities. What did you have in mind?


    Just the idea of starting a society of some sort. Just try and connect with other Ex-Muslims on campus (if there are any)

    The unlived life is not worth examining.
  • Re: Death Threats
     Reply #13 - May 28, 2009, 11:42 PM

    So there was one dude patrolling and another dude who made a death threat-- why didn't the dude patrolling call some other atheists from inside and have the dude making the threat bundled?

    fuck you
  • Re: Death Threats
     Reply #14 - May 30, 2009, 11:36 PM

    So there was one dude patrolling and another dude who made a death threat-- why didn't the dude patrolling call some other atheists from inside and have the dude making the threat bundled?


    Seems to me that Atheists arent violent like some religious groups can get.


    We keep hearing about how Jack Straw or the French government have mentioned the veil and our doing so puts us in the same boat as them. How so? I want a ban on the burka, neqab and child veiling.

    you can either defend women or you must defend Islam. You can’t defend both

    - Maryam Namaze
  • Death Threats
     Reply #15 - October 22, 2014, 01:39 PM

    Fuck, my little brother is studying there.

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Death Threats
     Reply #16 - October 22, 2014, 04:47 PM

    Why did I have the impression you were the only child?  Huh?

    "The healthiest people I know are those who are the first to label themselves fucked up." - three
  • Death Threats
     Reply #17 - October 22, 2014, 04:55 PM

    Why did I have the impression you were the only child?  Huh?

    because the guy is weird and sensitive.. and wants to be good to every one.

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Death Threats
     Reply #18 - October 22, 2014, 04:59 PM

    Damn it, yeezevee you beat me to it! Cheesy

    Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. - Terry Pratchett
  • Death Threats
     Reply #19 - October 23, 2014, 03:59 AM

     Cry

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Death Threats
     Reply #20 - October 23, 2014, 04:00 AM

    I'm the oldest of four.

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Death Threats
     Reply #21 - October 29, 2014, 04:16 PM

    Surely, the majority of people attending university in the UK would actually be atheist? Am I misunderstanding something about this age group?
  • Death Threats
     Reply #22 - October 29, 2014, 04:55 PM

    Yes. There are plenty of very religious people at Universities. Muslims are common, and some are very intelligent academically. I personally attended Bath and I remember going along to a Christian group (not many Muslims there). I went along because of a redheaded Irish girl who I loved. But I was amazed at how big the Christian society was, how devoted they all were to Jesus, and how intelligent they all were.

    Btw, I got nowhere with the Irish girl. I was young and my talents were raw and then unrefined. Plus, it's true what they say about girls from her county: you can take the girl out of Cork, but you can't take the cork out of the girl.

    Hi
  • Death Threats
     Reply #23 - October 29, 2014, 04:56 PM

    Fuck, my little brother is studying there.

    you can always call him and find out how things are for your kleine bruder  grin12
  • Death Threats
     Reply #24 - October 29, 2014, 05:28 PM

    Yes. There are plenty of very religious people at Universities. Muslims are common, and some are very intelligent academically. I personally attended Bath and I remember going along to a Christian group (not many Muslims there). I went along because of a redheaded Irish girl who I loved. But I was amazed at how big the Christian society was, how devoted they all were to Jesus, and how intelligent they all were.

    Btw, I got nowhere with the Irish girl. I was young and my talents were raw and then unrefined. Plus, it's true what they say about girls from her county: you can take the girl out of Cork, but you can't take the cork out of the girl.


    Haha. I have some (lack of) experience in that direction also.

    I don't doubt there are religious people attending university but my perception of the age group generally is that most of them (you?) are atheist I'm disappointed if I'm wrong about that. My thinking was (and I do concede that atheists never organise) that it shouldn't be that hard to get lots of people to that meeting to say loud and clear why they think free speech is a good idea.
  • Death Threats
     Reply #25 - October 29, 2014, 05:42 PM

    Ah, I missed the word majority. But I don't even think it is a majority in some Uni's. Bradford for instance.

    Hi
  • Death Threats
     Reply #26 - October 29, 2014, 05:49 PM

    Haha. I have some (lack of) experience in that direction also.

    I don't doubt there are religious people attending university but my perception of the age group generally is that most of them (you?) are atheist I'm disappointed if I'm wrong about that. My thinking was (and I do concede that atheists never organise) that it shouldn't be that hard to get lots of people to that meeting to say loud and clear why they think free speech is a good idea.


    They do organise and say stuff to that effect but then get dis-affiliated from their union, especially if they critique Islam.

    Case in point: The University of Reading

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2212992/University-atheist-society-ordered-freshers-fair-displaying-blasphemous-pineapple-called-Mohammed.html

    http://freethoughtblogs.com/godlessness/2013/10/04/reading-university-has-banned-its-atheist-society-why-because-they-named-a-pineapple-muhammad/

    Quote
    Reading University has banned its atheist society. Why? Because they named a pineapple Muhammad
    Gillian Gibbons, a teacher from Liverpool who worked in Khartoum, was arrested in 2007 for naming her class teddy bear Muhammad. Authorities detained her in a police cell, and a court sentenced her to fifteen days in prison and deportation. This was a comparatively lenient decree: Gibbons, charged triply with insulting religion, incitement of hatred and public contempt for religious beliefs, might have faced forty lashes for these under Sudanese law.

    A year ago as freshers’ fair took place at Reading University, its atheist society sought to raise awareness of blasphemy laws’ global effects, citing the Gibbons case specifically. To pique passing first years’ interest as a conversation-prompter, they wrote the name Muhammad on a post-it note and stuck it to a pineapple, assuming no doubt that this exhibit’s surreal whimsy couldn’t possibly be viewed as aggressive, prejudicial or intolerant. They erred in thinking so: after the best part of a day passed without signs of trouble, a representative of Reading’s student union (who ran the fair) informed them a number of complaints had been received, adding the earnest but Pythonesque instruction, ‘Either the pineapple goes, or you do.’

    According to a statement the group made which hit the press:

    They seized the pineapple and tried to leave. However, the pineapple was swiftly returned, and shortly was displayed again, with the name Mohammed changed to that of Jesus.

    Shortly afterwards, the second RUSU staff member returned and ordered [us] to leave the Freshers’ Fayre. At this point, a group of around five students, some of whom self-identified as Muslim, approached the stall and began to criticise us, asking and telling us to remove the pineapple. Though these students mainly engaged in discussion, one removed the label from the pineapple without our permission.

    As the RUSU staff member merely raised his voice and shouted at the [society] president when he attempted to explain our position, we were ultimately forced to leave the venue. However, several other societies at the Fayre offered to continue distributing our leaflets, and we continued to hand out leaflets outside the venue until we were again asked to leave by RUSU staff members, this time accompanied by RUSU security staff.
    ‘Our Freshers’ Fayre’, the student union commented, ‘is an inclusive event for all students. As the societies [sic] actions were causing upset and distress to a number of individual students and other societies attending we took the decision to ask them to leave.’

    Defending the society’s expulsion on grounds of inclusivity seems Orwellian in the extreme. It’s true events can’t and shouldn’t be equally inclusive of women and misogynists, homophobes and queer people, Muslims and the far right’s anti-migrant racism – but this wasn’t an anti-Muslim display. It wasn’t a depiction of Mohammad as a suicide bomber, for example; it wasn’t a placard blaming Sweden’s Muslim populace for its rape statistics; it was a tropical fruit emblazoned with a so called prophet’s name, so as to start discussions about blasphemy and free expression. (The atheist society, when the English Defence League planned a demonstration on their campus earlier this year, soon organised a counter-protest. The EDL themselves were acting in response to the Muslim Society at reading hosting a talk by Abu Usamah at-Thahabi, a supporter of queer and LGBT people’s violent murder. The event was proscribed, but only due to fears of violence; while the Muslim Society’s views on tropical fruit remain unknown, no action against them seems to have been taken.)

    Reading’s student union, after this, took disciplinary action against the atheist society, issuing it in spring term this year with an official warning. According to Rory Fenton, president of the National Federation of Atheist, Humanist and Secular Student Societies (who really, seriously need to fix their name), ‘the union then updated their behavioural policy to forbid societies from causing “offence” to other students or even to members of the wider local community. The policy offers no definition of offence, creating in essence a blasphemy ban.’

    In order to continue operating under the union’s auspices, the society was asked to sign an agreement to avoid causing offence in future. They declined to do this, quite understandably for a body whose central premise is that other people’s most cherished views are wrong, and have now been disaffiliated. The atheist society, officially speaking, no longer exists – while it still meets and recruits, union officials have now informed committee members they consider it dissolved, removing financial support for the group’s activities, room-booking privileges for events and rights to a table at freshers’ fair. (A few days ago, as autumn term began, members stood outside the premises to advertise.)

    The union has, in effect, banned atheist societies – banned anyone, specifically, who won’t abide by a faith’s religious taboos which they don’t practise and who won’t refrain from violating vague ideals of non-offensiveness through benignly blasphemous displays.

    This is cause for extreme concern.

    What’s more concerning is that judging by events this week in London, it isn’t alone.

  • Death Threats
     Reply #27 - October 29, 2014, 05:51 PM

    Haha. I have some (lack of) experience in that direction also.

    I don't doubt there are religious people attending university but my perception of the age group generally is that most of them (you?) are atheist I'm disappointed if I'm wrong about that. My thinking was (and I do concede that atheists never organise) that it shouldn't be that hard to get lots of people to that meeting to say loud and clear why they think free speech is a good idea.


    Plus students are perhaps generally too nice and polite to take on religion?

    Hi
  • Death Threats
     Reply #28 - October 29, 2014, 05:52 PM

    Sorry, Lily sounds like she is making more sense...

    Hi
  • Death Threats
     Reply #29 - December 23, 2014, 11:26 PM

    Hehe, two of my best friends (one Muslim and one Sikh) were telling me the other day that Hindus believe in "lots of stupid gods with ten arms and shit".

    They BOTH then, (with straight faces) went on to assert that there is only ONE god, thereby refuting themselves.

    I am better than your god......and so are you.

    "Is the man who buys a magic rock, really more gullible than the man who buys an invisible magic rock?.......,...... At least the first guy has a rock!"
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