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 Topic: I'm Rashna, new to CEMB

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  • I'm Rashna, new to CEMB
     OP - February 01, 2009, 05:00 AM


    Hi everyone, I'm Rashna Jilla. I came across this site when I grew interested in religions and apostasy.
    My mother's family is  Bohra Muslim . My nani, her mother had been married once before when she was 15 and my maternal grandfather was her second husband, and she says that her first marriage was very bad. In addition, the Bohras have female circumcision and she keeps saying that she suffered badly due to it. I don't think the Bohra female circumcision is harmful,I'm very friendly with some of of my mom's younger relatives, and they say they didn't suffer due to it, but I'm not sure. I think that she became sort of an apostate due to all this, and didn't bring my mother and her sister up very religiously.Bohras have a sort of colorful burkha, and while she wore that, she actually insisted that my mom and aunt dress as they please. She's always complaining about something or the other. My maternal grandfather,  is a pretty devout Muslim as well as a very mild mannered person, and my grandmom runs the house as she pleases.

    My father's family is Zoroastrian. My father wasn't particularly religious when he met my mom, although when my maternal grandfather began insisting that he convert to Islam, he had refused. Neither my mom nor my grandmother insisted on a conversion, and they finally married according to India's Special Marriage Act, which allows people of two different faiths to wed without changing their religions.

    I've got a brother two years older to me, and a baby sister 12 years younger to me. After my brother was born, my father suddenly became concerned that Zoroastrians were a great ancient faith as well as a dwindling population today so it was his duty to raise his kids in that religion.  My mother didn't particularly object so we were being raised Zoroastrian, but as both my parents didn't particularly believe in God, both of us didn't either.

    Later I read the Zed Avesta, and it was a collection of primitive myths, some eternally valuable collection of ethics, some misogyny and some control tactics like Heaven and Hell. I also read the Koran and it was the same.My school's Bible teacher certainly made me dislike the Bible, and thanks to her, some of my Christian classmates also became skeptics. Religion isn't just about books however, and the quality of a faith  depends upon the quality of its followers. The Zoroastrians are some of India's most educated and successful citizens, with almost complete gender equality while the Muslims are quite the opposite. I also prefer my Zoroastrian festivals, acquaintances and relatives to my Muslim ones, although I don't believe in God. My dad is the more fundamentalist of my parents though, he keeps telling me that I should marry a Zoroastrian man and have loads of kids. I think he'll be somewhat disappointed if I end up not marrying a Zoroastrian, although he'll surely come around. I intend to marry whoever I like.

    World renowned historian Will Durant"...the Islamic conquest of India is probably the bloodiest story in history. It is a discouraging tale, for its evident moral is that civilization is a precious good, whose delicate complex order and freedom can at any moment be overthrown..."
  • Re: I'm Rashna, new to CEMB
     Reply #1 - February 01, 2009, 05:21 AM

    Good for you Rashna. Welcome addition to CEMB, glad for you to grace us with your presence. Where are you located, if I may ask? India, UK, other?

    I chose to get circumcised at 17, don't tell me I never believed.
  • Re: I'm Rashna, new to CEMB
     Reply #2 - February 01, 2009, 05:28 AM

    Good for you Rashna. Welcome addition to CEMB, glad for you to grace us with your presence. Where are you located, if I may ask? India, UK, other?

     

    India, in a boarding school. My brother is also in this school. My father's in the Indian Foreign Services, and my mom and baby sis are with him in the country where he is now.

    World renowned historian Will Durant"...the Islamic conquest of India is probably the bloodiest story in history. It is a discouraging tale, for its evident moral is that civilization is a precious good, whose delicate complex order and freedom can at any moment be overthrown..."
  • Re: I'm Rashna, new to CEMB
     Reply #3 - February 01, 2009, 05:33 AM

    Cool. So how does that work? Do you get time off in the summer to visit your family, are you there until you finish High School?

    I chose to get circumcised at 17, don't tell me I never believed.
  • Re: I'm Rashna, new to CEMB
     Reply #4 - February 01, 2009, 05:41 AM

    Cool. So how does that work? Do you get time off in the summer to visit your family, are you there until you finish High School?

     

    I visit my family once every summer, but seldom in the Christmas holidays. It meaning boarding school works beautifully once you're used to it. Friends become family, but in the beginning I felt very homesick. I had my brother though, and I was always closer to him than my parents, so it was better for me. I'm in this school till I finish High School, and then I'll go off to University somewhere.

    Perhaps living with my parents in Bangladesh, and now in an African country would've been more pleasant, but I don't know.

    World renowned historian Will Durant"...the Islamic conquest of India is probably the bloodiest story in history. It is a discouraging tale, for its evident moral is that civilization is a precious good, whose delicate complex order and freedom can at any moment be overthrown..."
  • Re: I'm Rashna, new to CEMB
     Reply #5 - February 01, 2009, 05:56 AM

    How long have you been in boarding school? I always thought it would be exciting. Very large school? In town, or nearby a town you can mess around in?

    I chose to get circumcised at 17, don't tell me I never believed.
  • Re: I'm Rashna, new to CEMB
     Reply #6 - February 01, 2009, 06:00 AM

    Hi Rashna. Welcome to our humble abode.

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: I'm Rashna, new to CEMB
     Reply #7 - February 01, 2009, 06:06 AM

    Hi Rashna. Welcome to our humble abode.

    He means welcome to the pirate ship. Yes, welcome!  parrot

    "Poor human nature, what horrible crimes have been committed in thy name!"
    - Emma Goldman
  • Re: I'm Rashna, new to CEMB
     Reply #8 - February 01, 2009, 06:16 AM

    Arrrrrr!

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: I'm Rashna, new to CEMB
     Reply #9 - February 01, 2009, 07:32 AM



    привет!

    Don't know much about Bohras other than that they are a group of the Ismaili branch of the Shia version of the Muhammadan formulation of the millatu Ibrahim originally vouchsafed to Adam (upon whom be peace). But I read some Asghar Ali Engineer back in the day Smiley


    The language of the mob was only the language of public opinion cleansed of hypocrisy and restraint - Hannah Arendt.
  • Re: I'm Rashna, new to CEMB
     Reply #10 - February 01, 2009, 07:38 AM

    Cool book cover.

    Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West. bunny
  • Re: I'm Rashna, new to CEMB
     Reply #11 - February 01, 2009, 07:55 AM

    Why the Russian, Abdalwali? Just cuz?

    I chose to get circumcised at 17, don't tell me I never believed.
  • Re: I'm Rashna, new to CEMB
     Reply #12 - February 01, 2009, 07:59 AM

    Potomo chto....mne nravica.

    Yeah. Just cuz.

    And Just Ice was good back in the day. Kool N Deadly - now that was a great album - especially that one with KRS on it and Lickin Lyrics.

    Peace!!!

    The language of the mob was only the language of public opinion cleansed of hypocrisy and restraint - Hannah Arendt.
  • Re: I'm Rashna, new to CEMB
     Reply #13 - February 01, 2009, 09:01 AM

    Welcom Rashna, its very nice to meet you  Smiley



    Quod est inferius est sicut quod est superius,
    et quod est superius est sicut quod est inferius,
    ad perpetranda miracula rei unius.
  • Re: I'm Rashna, new to CEMB
     Reply #14 - February 01, 2009, 09:21 AM

    Hi Rashna. Welcome to our humble abode.

    He means welcome to the pirate ship. Yes, welcome!  parrot

    Pieces of eight, pieces of eight, Awk! parrot

    Religion is ignorance giftwrapped in lyricism.
  • Re: I'm Rashna, new to CEMB
     Reply #15 - February 01, 2009, 09:53 AM

    Thanks for the welcome everyone.

    How long have you been in boarding school? I always thought it would be exciting. Very large school? In town, or nearby a town you can mess around in?


    I've been in a boarding school for almost three years now. Its exciting sure, but somewhat less exciting than Enid Blyton's boarding schools. Not a very large school, less than 500 people study here. Near a town, but we have pretty strict timings, so can't mess about much.

    World renowned historian Will Durant"...the Islamic conquest of India is probably the bloodiest story in history. It is a discouraging tale, for its evident moral is that civilization is a precious good, whose delicate complex order and freedom can at any moment be overthrown..."
  • Re: I'm Rashna, new to CEMB
     Reply #16 - February 01, 2009, 10:03 AM







    Later I read the Zed Avesta, and it was a collection of primitive myths, some eternally valuable collection of ethics, some misogyny and some control tactics like Heaven and Hell. I also read the Koran and it was the same.My school's Bible teacher certainly made me dislike the Bible, and thanks to her, some of my Christian classmates also became skeptics. Religion isn't just about books however, and the quality of a faith  depends upon the quality of its followers. The Zoroastrians are some of India's most educated and successful citizens, with almost complete gender equality while the Muslims are quite the opposite. I also prefer my Zoroastrian festivals, acquaintances and relatives to my Muslim ones, although I don't believe in God. My dad is the more fundamentalist of my parents though, he keeps telling me that I should marry a Zoroastrian man and have loads of kids. I think he'll be somewhat disappointed if I end up not marrying a Zoroastrian, although he'll surely come around. I intend to marry whoever I like.

    ================

    Can you elaborate more on the misogyny and gender equality?

    did u mean that the book is misogynistic while ppl ain't?





    Welcome abroad  Smiley

    "I'm Agnostic about God."

    Richard Dawkins
    ==
    "If there is a God, it has to be a man; no woman could or would ever fuck things up like this."
     George Carlin == "...The so-called moderates are actually the public relations arm of Al-Qaeda and the Islamic Republic of Iran."  Maryam Namazie
  • Re: I'm Rashna, new to CEMB
     Reply #17 - February 01, 2009, 10:09 AM

    Welcome to the community Rashna!

    I am quite new too, I joined last week, It's a nice place with lot's of friendly members bunny

    I hope you like it!  Wink
  • Re: I'm Rashna, new to CEMB
     Reply #18 - February 01, 2009, 10:24 AM

    Can you elaborate more on the misogyny and gender equality?

    did u mean that the book is misogynistic while ppl ain't?

    Welcome abroad  Smiley


    Thanks, Emerald. Well, both the book and the people following it in ancient times were somewhat misogynistic. Obedient and devoted wives were greatly praised. In addition, menstruation was considered badly, and a result of the lust produced in women by Jahika, an evil feminine spirit. Women were secluded for those few days and their ritual pollution was apparently due to Nahush who's also an evil feminine spirit. This went on till 150 years ago.
    These beliefs were not included in the Gathas, which are the words of Zarathustra, but they were sanctioned by the priesthood nevertheless. Of course, what a prophet preaches and what people practice often turn out differently.

    Also Zoroastrianism divides the world into dual forces-the good Ahura Mazda and the bad Ahriman. Ahura Mazda is the One God, while Ahriman is Satan's equivalent, but both are depicted as almost equal in power. Women were depicted as morally weaker and more prone to Ahriman's bad influences.Polygamy was allowed.
     
    BTW, yes Zoroastrians are extremely egalitarian just like many Scandinavian Lutherans are very egalitarian even though Martin Luther believed (amongst other things) in killing "witches." Of course, many Scandinavians consider themselves non believers, while Zarathusthis still cling to their faith, maybe because there're so few of them.

    (edit, awais: I fixed your quote tags, it was buggin' me.)

    World renowned historian Will Durant"...the Islamic conquest of India is probably the bloodiest story in history. It is a discouraging tale, for its evident moral is that civilization is a precious good, whose delicate complex order and freedom can at any moment be overthrown..."
  • Re: I'm Rashna, new to CEMB
     Reply #19 - February 01, 2009, 11:34 AM

    Welcome Rashna.  The independence of your mind at 14 surprises me.  I suppose the boarding school helps in this respect, as I found myself surrounded by adults & family at that age yearning to be seen as a separate entity. 

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: I'm Rashna, new to CEMB
     Reply #20 - February 01, 2009, 11:35 AM

    Welcome, Rashna I have been so impressed by your maturity and insight at such a young age.

    Welcome!  Afro
  • Re: I'm Rashna, new to CEMB
     Reply #21 - February 01, 2009, 01:06 PM

    Hi and welcome Rashna. My wife also went to boarding school in India at one of the Jesus and Mary schools in Bangalore. The convent nuns there were pretty fanatical according to her

    We are in favor of tolerance, but it is a very difficult thing to tolerate the intolerant and impossible to tolerate the intolerable.

    -George Dennison Prentice
  • Re: I'm Rashna, new to CEMB
     Reply #22 - February 01, 2009, 01:13 PM

    Hiya Rashna.  Welcome.   Smiley

    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Re: I'm Rashna, new to CEMB
     Reply #23 - February 01, 2009, 02:36 PM

    Thanks for the welcome everyone!

    @ abdalwali, Ashghar Ali Engineer is a very nice man, the opposite of that offensive Zakir Naik, and just as knowledgeable.The Bohras are pretty tolerant Muslims-they follow a syncretic sort of Islam where reincarnation also has a place.

    The Bohras are also closely associated to the Ismailis, as you've rightly pointed out. Even the Ismailis are pretty tolerant, their leader Aga Khan's daughter Zahra Aga Khan is married to a British Anglican who didn't convert to Islam.

    @ Emerald it may interest you to know(if you didn't know already) that many Muslim scholars believe that the veil originated in Pre Islamic Sassanid and Byzantine empires.Elite Zoroastrian women veiled and were secluded in harems, even the Persian King wore a veil to sheild his face in public. Opinions vary about whether ordinary women ever veiled and the paintings of the period show plenty of unveiled women going about their daily lives.There is no evidence of Zoroastrian women in Indian veiling, not in the recent past and not even in the remote past, so this practice was probably restricted to the upper classes and royalty.

    The worst thing effecting Zoroastrian women IMO was the rigorous menstruation and purification rituals, there was a sort of tiny hut outside the house, just large enough for women to sleep in where they spent their menstruating days. Those huts mostly didn't even have windows. Anything they came into contact with was considered polluted.

    My paternal grandmother tries to gloss over this fact, she says that it was due to the fear of epidemics in ancient times, and even male Zoroastrian priests (women couldn't be priests-yet another discrimination!) were made to stay away from temples if they had a bleeding wound, but such rigorous purification rituals weren't like anything men had to go through.

    Some stuff are very common to all faiths - wives are advised to be obedient rather than the other way round can be seen in the Zend Avesta just like Paul's advice to women,women are somehow more prone to sin and the temption from the Devil and his cohorts and this too can be seen in Eve tempting Adam as well as Zarathushthi women supposedly menstruating due to evil feminine spirits,  and all this makes for a fascinating comparative study for someone who has the time or the inclination. I know that women's rights' in religion or lack thereof interest you Emerald, maybe you could write something about all this.

    World renowned historian Will Durant"...the Islamic conquest of India is probably the bloodiest story in history. It is a discouraging tale, for its evident moral is that civilization is a precious good, whose delicate complex order and freedom can at any moment be overthrown..."
  • Re: I'm Rashna, new to CEMB
     Reply #24 - February 01, 2009, 04:27 PM

    Welcome Rashna, nice introduction.

    "Ask the slave girl; she will tell you the truth.' So the Apostle called Burayra to ask her. Ali got up and gave her a violent beating first, saying, 'Tell the Apostle the truth.'"
  • Re: I'm Rashna, new to CEMB
     Reply #25 - February 01, 2009, 04:47 PM

    Welcome Rashna! Thanks for joining this forum, you certainly are a smart gal with a nice attitude. I imagine squeezing your cheeks right now Tongue

    I'm curious, how do you access the internet? Does your school provide WLAN for pupils with private notebooks, or do you have some kind of internet-cafe there?

    German ex-Muslim forumMy YouTubeList of Ex-Muslims
    Wikis: en de fr ar tr
    CEMB-Chat
    I'm on an indefinite break...
  • Re: I'm Rashna, new to CEMB
     Reply #26 - February 01, 2009, 08:12 PM

    Rashna - you appear to have had exposure to many different religions - what are your current beliefs?

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: I'm Rashna, new to CEMB
     Reply #27 - February 01, 2009, 11:30 PM

    Welcome Rashna!


     Greetings

    Atheism is a non-prophet organization.

    The sleeper has awakened -  Dune

    Give a man a fish, and you'll feed him for a day Give him a religion, and he'll starve to death while praying for a fish!
  • Re: I'm Rashna, new to CEMB
     Reply #28 - February 02, 2009, 07:50 AM

    Rashna - you appear to have had exposure to many different religions - what are your current beliefs?


    I'm not very sure of my current beliefs, one thing I know is that I don't believe that any one religion has all the answers or any one religion's holy book was dictated by God. I'm almost certain that they were the works of men (not women) who desired to codify the moral values that they held and announced to people that these came from their God or gods so that they'd be more acceptable, and so that they could announce more dire consequences for breaking them. They also spun stories of Heaven and Hell so that those who didn't believe would be scared into believing. In case even that didn't work, quite a few religions (mainly the Abrahamic ones from what I know) claimed that God has given them the right to kill those who don't believe, so punishment for apostasy wasn't postponed to the Hereafter, it would be doled out right now.  Hammurabi also claimed that his code came from the god Baal. They were also woefully ignorant of science and how the physical world works, but humans then just like today wanted answers to why the world is the way it is, so they cooked up elaborate creation myths with supernatural incidents. I also think that people have a fear of death, both their own death and the death of their loved ones and they'd like to believe that they'd exist forever. Religion gives them this sense of immortality-that there'd be a better place where they'd eventually go to where everything would be all right, the wicked would be punished etc. However as times and morals changed, and they've changed drastically in the last 200 years, people were left to explain how come a just and loving God came to propound such misogynistic, barbaric and unscientific beliefs. They resolved this in different ways, Christians' claimed Jesus made a whole new set of laws, disregarding parts of the OT which they previously believed, or explaining Jesus' fables as meaning something differently, or simply dodging the question. Muslims claimed that Islam ultimately came to abolish slavery etc.

    I'd also like to add that I have a somewhat more negative opinion of Islam as it currently exists than other faiths. I see a lot of Muslims sticking to the most barbaric and obscurantist interpretation of their faith, regular acts of terrorism perpetrated in the name of Islam, and accomplishing little good.Quite a few Muslims also seem to believe that the world owes them more than they owe the world. Thats' why perhaps to many Muslims its perfectly all right to demand a separate Muslim homeland and divide the Indian sub continent driving out millions of non Muslims from  what became Pakistan and Bangladesh, but if a few million Jews  settle in a tiny piece of land called Israel, the global Muslim ummah, as far off as Malaysia is outraged. 

    I'm not a Christian, and I've come across many very fanatical Christians but I do realise how many excellent schools and charitable institutions are run by people who believe in such (to me) unbelievable stuff like Trinity. However, I'm certainly not an Ali Sina devotee, I acknowledge that there're many nice, extremely tolerant Muslims like my mom and her family, and I don't think a complete Islamic reformation is impossible.

    Welcome Rashna! Thanks for joining this forum, you certainly are a smart gal with a nice attitude. I imagine squeezing your cheeks right now Tongue

    I'm curious, how do you access the internet? Does your school provide WLAN for pupils with private notebooks, or do you have some kind of internet-cafe there?

     

    Thanks Aziz! We have a sort of what you call an internet cafe in our girls' hostel. On the second floor of our girls' hostel, we have some 45 computers with internet access. Practically all of us have Orkut and Facebook accounts, and we do some of our our school projects on the computer.

    World renowned historian Will Durant"...the Islamic conquest of India is probably the bloodiest story in history. It is a discouraging tale, for its evident moral is that civilization is a precious good, whose delicate complex order and freedom can at any moment be overthrown..."
  • Re: I'm Rashna, new to CEMB
     Reply #29 - February 02, 2009, 07:56 AM

    I liked your summary and assessment on religion, Rashna and find myself in agreement with everything you said.  Afro
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