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Theme Changer

 Topic: 75% of muslim converts leave Islam

 (Read 51939 times)
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  • Re: 75% of muslim converts leave Islam
     Reply #30 - October 14, 2009, 07:36 PM

    Some people dont know which religion they have to follow.They have more doubts.So they listen to some preachers and change to some religion uselessly like watching different Movies.  whistling2 Complete Time waste...
  • Re: 75% of muslim converts leave Islam
     Reply #31 - October 15, 2009, 06:16 AM

    Some people dont know which religion they have to follow.They have more doubts.So they listen to some preachers and change to some religion uselessly like watching different Movies.  whistling2 Complete Time waste...


    I was always interested in how these scholars like AHM and HY converted to Islam. Was it an intellectual move or a reaction to something in their life?

    I'm not sure about Abdal Hakim Murad, but Hamza Yusuf's conversion sounds very reactionary. He had a car accident at around the age of 16/17, which made him look at death head on and make those decisions. He started studying world religions at that point and even looked at Buddhism. But note this, he like the "idea of god", so started to look at the monotheisms.

    From this I noticed that you have to be inclined towards a belief in god in the first place to make that sort of move. I've only ever come across half a dozen or so atheists who have gone the other way and adopted a faith. An example id Alister Mcgrath.
  • Re: 75% of muslim converts leave Islam
     Reply #32 - October 15, 2009, 05:54 PM

    of the converts i have met, they either turn out to be alot more serious about their religion than those born into it, otherwise they seem quite ignorant. most of the converts i know have made this choice in regards to marriage, so its hard to say how much faith theyve really invested in it.

    +1

    Seems they become more muslim then muslim or they just never cared to begin with.

    "Ask the slave girl; she will tell you the truth.' So the Apostle called Burayra to ask her. Ali got up and gave her a violent beating first, saying, 'Tell the Apostle the truth.'"
  • Re: 75% of muslim converts leave Islam
     Reply #33 - October 15, 2009, 06:58 PM

    I've noticed that a lot of converts in the West tend to be black. Any reason?

    Take the Pakman challenge and convince me there is a God and Mo was not a murdering, power hungry sex maniac.
  • Re: 75% of muslim converts leave Islam
     Reply #34 - October 15, 2009, 07:01 PM

    why do you think that is?

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: 75% of muslim converts leave Islam
     Reply #35 - October 15, 2009, 07:02 PM

    Actually I don't. In fact I know that dawah groups go out of their way to target black communities. I have met many eager zealous black converts. I feel like telling them about the hadith where Mo described them as raisan heads and other where they are called ugly as well as the role of Muslims in the slave trade.

    Take the Pakman challenge and convince me there is a God and Mo was not a murdering, power hungry sex maniac.
  • Re: 75% of muslim converts leave Islam
     Reply #36 - October 15, 2009, 07:19 PM

    I suspect its a reactionary thing against Western culture, which they see as a historical & modern oppressor.

    Whether its true or not is a different matter, but thats what I think..

    My Book     news002       
    My Blog  pccoffee
  • Re: 75% of muslim converts leave Islam
     Reply #37 - October 16, 2009, 04:56 AM

    This is one of the most intriguing topics to me: why and how subjugated peoples embrace and then perpetuate the ideologies of those who dominate/d over them, instead of subverting or rejecting those dominating and often sadistic ideologies. It's something I'm studying in university as well. Here's an interesting paper on the topic of, specifically, the situation in Africa:

    Quote
    As Professor Daniel Mangera notes, the cultural genocide of Africa began in the seventh-eighth century AD, when the Arabs forced Islam and slave trade on Africans. The Arabs were followed by their arch rivals, the Europeans, in the 15th century. Under the pretext of checkmating Arabic slave trade and saving African heathens, the Europeans introduced Christianity to the continent. Professor Mangera further points out that Africa's indigenous religions, unlike their Christian and Islamic counterparts, were not proselytizing and never led Africans to use force to convert or impose their beliefs on others. According to another African scholar, Professor Ali Mazrui, of the three principal religious legacies of Africa - indigenous, Islamic and Christian - the most tolerant is the indigenous tradition.

    Africa did not have religious wars prior to the introduction of Christianity and Islam. This is because indigenous African religions (and therefore cultures) were neither universalistic - seeking to conquer the whole of the human race - nor competitive - in bitter rivalry against other creeds. The grand designs of Christianity and Islam, the two most universalistic religions in the world, have always been to convert the entire world according to their images. The crusades and jihads that tore apart Europe and other areas of the world for centuries testify to the incredible thirst for conquest and domination that has characterized both the Christian and Islamic creeds. For instance, the Bible's Old Testament prods Christians to embark on imperialistic conquests of other nations and even to incite racist sentiments in the following lines: When the Lord your God brings you into the land which you are entering to occupy and drives out many nations before you (...), when the Lord delivers them into your power and you defeat them, you must put them to death (...). (...) you must not intermarry with them, neither giving your daughters to their sons nor taking their daughters for your sons. (Old Testament, Deuteronomy, 7: 1-3) Africans, unlike the Arabs and Europeans, developed community religions that left so much freedom of association to individuals that most of the religious practices remained community-based, familial or even individual, and did not, in most cases, expand beyond village, ethnic or tribal constituencies. When they did expand, indigenous African religions did so, more in the form of borrowings than of cultural impositions.

    Sadly, Africans abandoned their tolerant tradition and instead embraced religions of intolerance that now turn them against one another. Africans abandoned their own gods and embraced false gods. They bought into the nonsense peddled by European missionaries that their religions were heathenish and that they did not know God until the Europeans introduced the concept to them! Regrettably, the deadly religious clashes in Nigeria, the Christian-Islamic war in Sudan, the North-South schism that led to the civil war in the Ivory Coast, plus numerous other religion inspired conflicts in Africa today, are damning testimony to the fact that Africans have now integrated the cultural aggression and intolerance characteristic of Western and Arab holy warriors and missionaries.


    Full text here: Religious Intolerance in Africa

    "Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused."
  • Re: 75% of muslim converts leave Islam
     Reply #38 - October 16, 2009, 07:43 AM

    Possibly because of the effects of their submission and the perception that their conquerors are far more advanced then they are.

    "Modern man's great illusion has been to convince himself that of all that has gone before he represents the zenith of human accomplishment, but can't summon the mental powers to read anything more demanding than emoticons. Fascinating. "

    One very horny Turk I met on the net.
  • Re: 75% of muslim converts leave Islam
     Reply #39 - October 16, 2009, 03:21 PM

    This is one of the most intriguing topics to me: why and how subjugated peoples embrace and then perpetuate the ideologies of those who dominate/d over them, instead of subverting or rejecting those dominating and often sadistic ideologies. It's something I'm studying in university as well. Here's an interesting paper on the topic of, specifically, the situation in Africa:


    The nobel prize winning Nigerian writer Wole Soyinka writes about this in a book I read, about the history of Islamic slavery in Africa, and how people are in denial about it, especially in the Arab and Islamic world.

    Its astonishing, isn't it, that Malcolm X and Muhammad Ali could both be taken in by Islam. An astonishing programme of denial and outright lies has kept this aspect of history oppressed.

    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: 75% of muslim converts leave Islam
     Reply #40 - October 16, 2009, 04:12 PM

    Malcom X told in one interview how some white looking Arabs treated him better when he went to the Middle East. It could be his anecdotal experiences that lead him to project them into an ideology, failing to look at the bigger picture.

    On the other hand it's also not uncommon for Christian sects to embrace the idea of universal brotherhood. I've seen black Christains also on youtube slamming Islam.





    "God is a geometer" - Plato

    "God is addicted to arithmetic" - Sir James Jeans
  • Re: 75% of muslim converts leave Islam
     Reply #41 - October 18, 2009, 02:09 AM

    They one's I see around look a little smug, holier than thou too. The really like to wear ridiculous clothes; the kind of stuff I hardly ever see a Turk or a Moroccan wear.

    Most nominal Muslims I know think they are pathetic.

    It's a bit like becoming a Christian and starting to wear a mixture sandals, the typical Pilgrim father hat and a medieval monks robe...


    Converts are under a type of intense pressure that other Muslims may not receive.  You are told that you have to change your name, and throw away your culture in order to be a true Muslim, that sort of thing.  I'm sure we all know the sorts of things that the umma says about white Muslims who don't dress in robes and thobes (spy, CIA agent).  If you're a woman in western clothes, your sisters and brothers say you're still dressing like the loose whore you were before you converted.  Really, it is a wonder anyone stays in the umma longer than a few weeks - and most probably don't.  Those who do are the ones who try their hardest to change everything about themselves to 'please Allah' like their new Muslim 'friends' are telling them they must. 


    But this isn't unique to Islam though; I remember a Jewish friend who said that all converts go through a stage of hyper sensitivity where they are concerned whether they would be accepted and how others perceive them if they make a mistake.

    It depends on whether you go mainstream Islam though - if you're sitting out on the fringes like I am, you're not going to feel that intense pressure to conform to the archetype of a perfect Muslim.

    "It's just a job. Grass grows, birds fly, waves pound the sand. I beat people up." - Muhammad Ali
  • 75% of muslim converts leave Islam
     Reply #42 - July 18, 2013, 10:46 PM

    ex converted here. I say for me, its down to experience. also I didn't know a lot about islam when I joined. yep barberellie is right, people of dawah are allowed to make up false "good" speech and acts toward potential converts like its okay to do sins etc all that in order to soften such potential converts' hearts into thinking that they can be all that as a muslim. then once they r in, they'd be warned if they left the religion, they'll be killed. I seriously like didn't know things about islam before my embrace lol. these people of dawah are very good liars/actors though and maybe should get Oscar Tongue
  • 75% of muslim converts leave Islam
     Reply #43 - July 18, 2013, 10:49 PM

    well I meant I knew about god/allah and believed but I thought it were gentle religion as well, know what I mean?
  • 75% of muslim converts leave Islam
     Reply #44 - July 18, 2013, 10:55 PM

    I was always interested in how these scholars like AHM and HY converted to Islam. Was it an intellectual move or a reaction to something in their life?

    I'm not sure about Abdal Hakim Murad, but Hamza Yusuf's conversion sounds very reactionary. He had a car accident at around the age of 16/17, which made him look at death head on and make those decisions. He started studying world religions at that point and even looked at Buddhism. But note this, he like the "idea of god", so started to look at the monotheisms.

    From this I noticed that you have to be inclined towards a belief in god in the first place to make that sort of move. I've only ever come across half a dozen or so atheists who have gone the other way and adopted a faith. An example id Alister Mcgrath.



    mine was reactionary. something happened. its all bs now anyway with me being atheist.
  • 75% of muslim converts leave Islam
     Reply #45 - July 18, 2013, 11:41 PM

    barberellie

    Like it.

  • 75% of muslim converts leave Islam
     Reply #46 - July 18, 2013, 11:52 PM

     Cheesy

    Danish Never-Moose adopted by the kind people on the CEMB-forum
    Ex-Muslim chat (Unaffliated with CEMB). Safari users: Use "#ex-muslims" as the channel name. CEMB chat thread.
  • 75% of muslim converts leave Islam
     Reply #47 - February 17, 2015, 10:32 PM

    Sorry for resurrecting such an old thread, but seeing as the video in the original post is no longer available, does anyone know if there is any concrete evidence or some sort of research / study into the claims that "75% of muslim converts leave Islam"?  Smiley

  • 75% of muslim converts leave Islam
     Reply #48 - February 17, 2015, 11:13 PM

    http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x97m5s_75-of-new-muslims-become-apostates_news

    It is mainly a guy trying to motivate the sales team. We got to increase the figures. We need to do more dawah. Sell Sell Sell. We are not retaining customers. 75% of customers are cancelling their contracts within a few years. We need to pull our socks up.

    Similar to an Indonesian campaign:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6E9NcbVa4FU
  • 75% of muslim converts leave Islam
     Reply #49 - February 18, 2015, 08:30 AM

    Thanks dr_sloth! That's really interesting to see dawah videos make such a statement.

    I wonder if there is a way to track down the actual research paper of this Dr. Ilyas Ba-Yunus chap as it's proving quite hard to find a concrete statement from him!

  • 75% of muslim converts leave Islam
     Reply #50 - March 06, 2015, 07:42 PM

    I wonder what the numbers are world wide. I mean 75% leave Islam in the us but we might never these who leave since many could be killed. Suhc was the same with Christianity for a bit.
  • 75% of muslim converts leave Islam
     Reply #51 - March 06, 2015, 10:47 PM

    Thanks dr_sloth! That's really interesting to see dawah videos make such a statement.

    I wonder if there is a way to track down the actual research paper of this Dr. Ilyas Ba-Yunus chap as it's proving quite hard to find a concrete statement from him!

    You're kidding right? Between 1-3% of people change their religion. This video is the same kind of bollocks the EDL/Jihad Watch people would come up with in "Christian" countries. It's bullshit. If Indonesia goes from a muslim country to a christian country (as it went from a buddist country to a muslim country) it won't be for centuries, long after we're dead, and not because of the reasons of this christianophobic propaganda.

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • 75% of muslim converts leave Islam
     Reply #52 - March 07, 2015, 12:12 AM

    f Indonesia goes from a muslim country to a christian country (as it went from a buddist country to a muslim country) it won't be for centuries, long after we're dead, and not because of the reasons of this christianophobic propaganda.


    You forgot the Internet. Indonesians are a different kind of Muslims despite of hardliners wanting to wahhabise the lot - as they are also trying with Malaysia.

    Hail Jesus!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dxgHrrudlsg

    Their president is a HUGE Lamb of God and Metallica and everyone knows this.

    He is also huge on executions, but that is another matter.

    Danish Never-Moose adopted by the kind people on the CEMB-forum
    Ex-Muslim chat (Unaffliated with CEMB). Safari users: Use "#ex-muslims" as the channel name. CEMB chat thread.
  • 75% of muslim converts leave Islam
     Reply #53 - March 07, 2015, 01:02 AM

    I'm not forgetting anything. The fact that Indonesians tend to be a different breed of muslims (as do Turks, Saudis, Iranians, Pakistanis, Malaysians etc.) doesn't in any way change my point. They might become more non religious, but non muslim? That'll take a while.

    Awesome video by the way. Afro

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • 75% of muslim converts leave Islam
     Reply #54 - March 07, 2015, 01:33 AM

    From the video it is clear that she is menstruating.

    Danish Never-Moose adopted by the kind people on the CEMB-forum
    Ex-Muslim chat (Unaffliated with CEMB). Safari users: Use "#ex-muslims" as the channel name. CEMB chat thread.
  • 75% of muslim converts leave Islam
     Reply #55 - March 07, 2015, 01:42 AM

     Huh?

    'Kay.

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • 75% of muslim converts leave Islam
     Reply #56 - March 07, 2015, 02:13 AM

    I wonder if there will ever be a study on how many people also have left Islam in countries like Saudi Arabia seeing has how no one is safe not likely. I think the number 75% is the same in the Uk for these who leave. Even though many claim Islam with dominant in UK this is mainly because of the birth rate but I don't know
  • 75% of muslim converts leave Islam
     Reply #57 - March 07, 2015, 10:42 AM

    Also got to take into consideration those reverts trapped in a marriage or a community who are faking their Islam, i'd say the percentage is much higher, closer to 99.99999 %
  • 75% of muslim converts leave Islam
     Reply #58 - April 16, 2015, 05:13 AM

    Interesting I heard the same thing happening in UK the same amount are leaving. Many were converting. Many were converting they thought in the next 10 years UK would be Islamic
  • 75% of muslim converts leave Islam
     Reply #59 - April 16, 2015, 08:57 AM

    What do you think the % of those ex muslims who return to Islam are? Surely is must be extremely rare (and I'm not talking about those who are forced to, or religion fetishists that do the rounds of belief systems, just genuine ex muslims who return to their flock). I can only think of one, but I intend to do some research into this.

    Ha Ha.
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