How can muslims take captives?

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- kephas
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How can muslims take captives?
OP - April 24, 2015, 05:57 PM

Let's say that a muslim state goes into battle with a kafir party. They then would give the kuffar these options: convert, pay the jizya (if applicable), or fight. If the kuffar chose the first or second, they're safe. If they chose the third, they'd be killed. Then where do captives come from?

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How can muslims take captives?
Reply #1 - April 24, 2015, 06:02 PM

Kill the men, take the women and children. A male child is checked for any pubes. If he has them, death.

`But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
`Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.'
`How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
`You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
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How can muslims take captives?
Reply #2 - April 24, 2015, 06:22 PM

So are you saying that the women and children can be exempted from death if they were made captives?

"we stand firm calling to allah all the time,
we let them know - bang! bang! - coz it's dawah time!"
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Reply #3 - April 24, 2015, 06:28 PM

Yes. There is a hadith where Muhammad says not to kill children.

“The Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) sent us in a military detachment and said: ‘Go in the Name of Allah, and in the cause of Allah. Fight those who disbelieve in Allah. Do not mutilate, do not be treacherous, do not steal from the spoils of war, and do not kill children.’”

http://sunnah.com/urn/1277060

And women we all know were not killed because of numerous hadiths where they were taken as slaves, even when their husbands were beheaded.
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Reply #4 - April 24, 2015, 06:34 PM

There's an Ibn Ishaq hadith that tells the story of how Abdullah ibn Sa'd escaped with his life after leaving islam and going back to christianity.

Quote from: TheRationalizer on February 22, 2010, 02:03 PM
Abdullah ibn Sa'd was his name. He was allowed to live but only because pointing was beneath Muhammad.

....asked that he might be granted immunity. The apostle remained silent for a long time until eventually he said "Yes". When they had gone he said "I remained silent that one of you might strike off his head!". One asked "Then why didn't you give me a sign?", to which Muhammad said "A prophet does not kill by pointing".

A man has got to have his standards you know!

`But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
`Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.'
`How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
`You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
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Reply #5 - April 24, 2015, 08:11 PM

When were eunuchs made and what reasons were given? Zheng hi for example

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Reply #6 - April 24, 2015, 08:55 PM

I think they predate Islam by a long time.
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Reply #7 - April 24, 2015, 09:02 PM

Just looked on wikipedia and it seems that just about every old world civilization had eunuchs: Chinese, Vietnam, India, Persians, Ottomans, Greece, Rome, etc.

I wonder where it originates and why so many Kings were so obsessed with cutting off another man's balls.
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Reply #8 - April 24, 2015, 09:03 PM

I haven't actually listened to this yet but here's an In Our Time episode on eunuchs

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b053bsf9
Quote
Melvyn Bragg and his guests discuss the history and significance of eunuchs, castrated men who were a common feature of many civilisations for at least three thousand years. Eunuchs were typically employed as servants in royal households in the ancient Middle East, China and classical antiquity. In some civilisations they were used as administrators or senior military commanders, sometimes achieving high office. The tradition lingered until surprisingly recently, with castrated singers remaining a feature of Vatican choirs until the nineteenth century, while the last Chinese eunuch of the imperial court died in 1996.

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Reply #9 - April 24, 2015, 09:34 PM

As a matter of interest, did the final prophet and his followers introduce anything new or abolish anything? Are there hadith about creating eunuchs?

When you are a Bear of Very Little Brain, and you Think of Things, you find sometimes that a Thing which seemed very Thingish inside you is quite different when it gets out into the open and has other people looking at it.

A.A. Milne,

"We cannot slaughter each other out of the human impasse"
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Reply #10 - April 24, 2015, 09:52 PM

I think it must be about alpha males wanting to maintain exclusive breeding with females. I think there are quite a few animal species where only the alpha male gets to breed with the females in the troop. For a king, the bigger his harem becomes, the more paranoid he will be that other males are getting nooky with his women. I wonder if eunuchs mostly existed in polygamous societies? Thank goodness humanity has evolved past this disgusting practice though.
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Reply #11 - April 24, 2015, 10:09 PM

Why did not the final prophet abolish it? Does Allan agree with it?

When you are a Bear of Very Little Brain, and you Think of Things, you find sometimes that a Thing which seemed very Thingish inside you is quite different when it gets out into the open and has other people looking at it.

A.A. Milne,

"We cannot slaughter each other out of the human impasse"
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Reply #12 - April 24, 2015, 10:36 PM

It was practiced by the Caliphate right up until the end I am afraid.

Here is a photo of the Chief Eunuch of the Ottoman Palace in 1912

But I am sure many will say that the Ottoman Sultans were not real Muslims.

The Quran verse 24:31 appears to mention Eunuchs when it says that women should hide their private parts except to their husbands, fathers, and "those male attendants having no physical desire".
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Reply #13 - April 25, 2015, 08:53 AM

It sounds to me that no Muslim majority state should sign the Geneva conventions, and that slavery and eunuchs are allowed.

Do people not ask why the Holy word of God as presented by his last prophet has so many ways of doing things that are traceable to the ways things were done then? Not exactly perfect is it?

When you are a Bear of Very Little Brain, and you Think of Things, you find sometimes that a Thing which seemed very Thingish inside you is quite different when it gets out into the open and has other people looking at it.

A.A. Milne,

"We cannot slaughter each other out of the human impasse"
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Reply #14 - April 25, 2015, 01:11 PM

Quote from: kephas on April 24, 2015, 05:57 PM
Let's say that a muslim state goes into battle with a kafir party. They then would give the kuffar these options: convert, pay the jizya (if applicable), or fight. If the kuffar chose the first or second, they're safe. If they chose the third, they'd be killed. Then where do captives come from?

Men of rank were often held for ransom. That would be a group of captives. The non-combatants assisting the opposition were taken as captives, such as slaves who did the cooking. Their women, their children. That is four different kinds of captives.

Don't let Hitler have the street.
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