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 Topic: 75% of muslim converts leave Islam

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  • 75% of muslim converts leave Islam
     OP - January 16, 2009, 03:46 PM

    http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=v8EC8-aVlrE&feature=related

    Muslim scholars conducted a study in certain parts of the US about muslim converts. The results are quite interesting, it showed a surprisingly large amount left Islam after a while. I was surprised to hear that many converts tend to be ex-cons (60% according to the video).

    Any thoughts?

    I would be really interested in seeing the trends of apostasy in Islam. Anybody know if such figures exists or any indication of how prevalent it is?
  • Re: 75% of muslim converts leave Islam
     Reply #1 - January 16, 2009, 06:38 PM

    The reason the percentages of ex muslims amongst converts is so high, is because they never bother to research past the flowery happy dawah that was used to snare them in the first place.

    I used to be told NOT to tell a potential convert to Islam about all the excess rules until after they had converted and then to introduce it very slowly so as not frighten them away.


    "I came into the world imbued with the will to find a meaning in things, my spirit filled with the desire to attain to the source of the world, and then I found that I was an object in the midst of other objects" - Fanon
  • Re: 75% of muslim converts leave Islam
     Reply #2 - January 16, 2009, 07:08 PM

    The reason the percentages of ex muslims amongst converts is so high, is because they never bother to research past the flowery happy dawah that was used to snare them in the first place.

    I used to be told NOT to tell a potential convert to Islam about all the excess rules until after they had converted and then to introduce it very slowly so as not frighten them away.




    I was part of  dawah group on the internet, and I was told something very similar to that. I always found it to be dishonest, but I was told it wasn't dishonest, it was just being "rational."

     Roll Eyes

    Call me TAP TAP! for I am THE ASS PATTER!
  • Re: 75% of muslim converts leave Islam
     Reply #3 - January 17, 2009, 12:52 PM

    The reason the percentages of ex muslims amongst converts is so high, is because they never bother to research past the flowery happy dawah that was used to snare them in the first place.

    I used to be told NOT to tell a potential convert to Islam about all the excess rules until after they had converted and then to introduce it very slowly so as not frighten them away.

    How dishonest Roll Eyes

    Anybody have any idea of the rates of apostasy amongst converts of other religions?
  • Re: 75% of muslim converts leave Islam
     Reply #4 - January 17, 2009, 03:26 PM

    http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=v8EC8-aVlrE&feature=related

    I was surprised to hear that many converts tend to be ex-cons (60% according to the video).

    Any thoughts?



    Thoughts? Maybe because the religion is pants?

    Quote
    I would be really interested in seeing the trends of apostasy in Islam. Anybody know if such figures exists or any indication of how prevalent it is?

    I would also like to know that figure Huh?.  Not sure if it is possible to get these percentages, as many muslims will refuse to admit it apostacy in public. 

    An easy, admittedly rough way, to get an idea of this figure is to do it anecdotally.  I know 3 apostates amongst all the muslims I have ever known.  Lets say Ive known e.g. 400-500 muslims close enough to get an idea of whether they are muslims or not, then we are looking at a percentage of less than than 1%. 

    Why do you think we are in such a minority, given that many muslims must have come across the issues we faced?

    Anecdotally, what is your percentage?

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  • Re: 75% of muslim converts leave Islam
     Reply #5 - January 17, 2009, 03:47 PM

    Me and my sister have left religion. That's 2. I'm deconverting someone else but they are quite young right now so don't fully understand things. But hopefully I can instill doubts in her from a young age. I don't know anyone else who has left it entirely.

    I don't know many muslims though. I do know I have a cousin with doubts but I barely ever see him so I don't know what conclusion he came to. I think he went back to it.

    I'd say the reason they are in a minority is because it is so difficult to apostatise when you're a muslim. It is different from many other religions. Islam is a community, it is a faith, it is a law, it is a way of life, it is an identity, it is a part of your life, it is perfect and unquestionnable.
  • Re: 75% of muslim converts leave Islam
     Reply #6 - January 18, 2009, 02:49 AM

    Some of the dawah I've seen to lure non-Muslims into Islam is truely shocking.  I'm not surprised that many converts become disillusioned and lied-to when they begin to actually live the Islamic life.

    Whenever the Muslim proselytizers SELL Islam to the uninformed non-Muslims, they will always tell them what they want to hear.  It's better to ease them in to Islam rather than shock them.

    I know I've mentioned this before, but I'll never forget the time I saw an Islamic exhibition in my local library which had many glossy displays and leaflets telling the public how oh-so-good and practical and peaceful Islam is, and among the many lies in their leaflets and displays was the claim that each of the 5 prayers which a Muslim is required to pray only takes a "few minutes" to perform.

    A "FEW MINUTES" ?? Shocked Angry

    Does it really take a "few minutes" ??

    I should've told the man behind the exhibition to do a little demonstration and I would've timed him with my stopwatch.

    When I used to pray my namaz it easily took me over 20 minutes to pray Isha, and I used to read it quite fast to get it over with!



    I'm not suggesting that every Muslim proselytizer has the intention to deceive and lie, because many Muslims are fooled themselves and they genuinely believe in what they're promoting, even if it's false/untrue (eg the so-called "scientific miracles" in the Quran")  Roll Eyes


    .
  • Re: 75% of muslim converts leave Islam
     Reply #7 - January 20, 2009, 05:13 AM

    The reason the percentages of ex muslims amongst converts is so high, is because they never bother to research past the flowery happy dawah that was used to snare them in the first place.

    I used to be told NOT to tell a potential convert to Islam about all the excess rules until after they had converted and then to introduce it very slowly so as not frighten them away.

    How dishonest Roll Eyes


    I think it has to be that way for them to make converts.

    Anybody who actually read the koran and actually wanted to live like that would have to have some psychological problem to start with.  Any reasonable person would just throw the thing in the nearest dumpster.  (How about the one behind the mosque?)

    So the muslims don't want potential converts reading the koran until after they are snared.  I think it works that way with some christian sects as well.

    Quote
    Anybody have any idea of the rates of apostasy amongst converts of other religions?


    Can't help you there.  I'd like to know that myself.
  • Re: 75% of muslim converts leave Islam
     Reply #8 - January 20, 2009, 05:56 AM

    of the converts i have met, they either turn out to be alot more serious about their religion than those born into it, otherwise they seem quite ignorant. most of the converts i know have made this choice in regards to marriage, so its hard to say how much faith theyve really invested in it.



    Quod est inferius est sicut quod est superius,
    et quod est superius est sicut quod est inferius,
    ad perpetranda miracula rei unius.
  • Re: 75% of muslim converts leave Islam
     Reply #9 - January 20, 2009, 06:44 AM

    of the converts i have met, they either turn out to be alot more serious about their religion than those born into it,

    All of the converts I've heard of and met turn out to be this way. Muslims are so fond of them

    "Poor human nature, what horrible crimes have been committed in thy name!"
    - Emma Goldman
  • Re: 75% of muslim converts leave Islam
     Reply #10 - January 20, 2009, 10:14 AM

    of the converts i have met, they either turn out to be alot more serious about their religion than those born into it,

    All of the converts I've heard of and met turn out to be this way. Muslims are so fond of them


    Funny, I was a convert but that never happened to me.  I did go through a short period of being super-religious right after I got married but quickly realised I was lying to myself.  Hubby was thinking that he had married the next Ruqqiyah Waris Maqsood when he married me but was sorly disappointed.

    However it did take a couple of years before I worked up the guts to tell him that I was no longer going to do the 5x daily salat and eat only halal meat, but when I did, boy did it feel GREAT!

    Atheism is a non-prophet organization.

    The sleeper has awakened -  Dune

    Give a man a fish, and you'll feed him for a day Give him a religion, and he'll starve to death while praying for a fish!
  • Re: 75% of muslim converts leave Islam
     Reply #11 - January 20, 2009, 11:54 AM

    of the converts i have met, they either turn out to be alot more serious about their religion than those born into it,

    All of the converts I've heard of and met turn out to be this way. Muslims are so fond of them


    True say.  They are held up as shining examples to the rest of us born muslims.

    "I came into the world imbued with the will to find a meaning in things, my spirit filled with the desire to attain to the source of the world, and then I found that I was an object in the midst of other objects" - Fanon
  • Re: 75% of muslim converts leave Islam
     Reply #12 - January 21, 2009, 09:00 PM

    Quote
    True say.  They are held up as shining examples to the rest of us born muslims.


    They one's I see around look a little smug, holier than thou too. The really like to wear ridiculous clothes; the kind of stuff I hardly ever see a Turk or a Moroccan wear.

    Most nominal Muslims I know think they are pathetic.

    It's a bit like becoming a Christian and starting to wear a mixture sandals, the typical Pilgrim father hat and a medieval monks robe...

    Everytime "science" (which is falsely called so), "discovers" something new, evolutionists have to go back and change some parts of one of their theories. Amazingly enough, no scientific discovery has ever caused Biblical creationists to have to change their stand.
  • Re: 75% of muslim converts leave Islam
     Reply #13 - January 21, 2009, 10:29 PM


    How dishonest Roll Eyes

    Anybody have any idea of the rates of apostasy amongst converts of other religions?



    I recently saw a discussion about music..... as in, should you break the news to a potential convert before or after.  Some people said they should tell them right away.  Others said that it'd be "too much to absorb".

    My friends mentioned to me that 'Kufr' meant 'covering up the truth'... I thought "wouldn't that constitute covering up the truth?"
  • Re: 75% of muslim converts leave Islam
     Reply #14 - January 22, 2009, 06:26 AM

    of the converts i have met, they either turn out to be alot more serious about their religion than those born into it,

    All of the converts I've heard of and met turn out to be this way. Muslims are so fond of them


    True say.  They are held up as shining examples to the rest of us born muslims.


    This is true in the sense that converts - especially white ones - are used for window dressing, but let us not forget that generally speaking, converts are treated like crap by the "born Muslims".  For a lot of the people I've been talking to, the crappy treatment, sometimes crossing over into abusive, has been one of the big catalysts that caused them to dig deeper into Islam, to question it, and to leave it.  So actually I'm glad that converts are usually treated like shit by the Muslims until they need someone to shove in front of a journalist. 

    [this space for rent]
  • Re: 75% of muslim converts leave Islam
     Reply #15 - January 22, 2009, 06:29 AM

    Quote
    True say.  They are held up as shining examples to the rest of us born muslims.


    They one's I see around look a little smug, holier than thou too. The really like to wear ridiculous clothes; the kind of stuff I hardly ever see a Turk or a Moroccan wear.

    Most nominal Muslims I know think they are pathetic.

    It's a bit like becoming a Christian and starting to wear a mixture sandals, the typical Pilgrim father hat and a medieval monks robe...


    Converts are under a type of intense pressure that other Muslims may not receive.  You are told that you have to change your name, and throw away your culture in order to be a true Muslim, that sort of thing.  I'm sure we all know the sorts of things that the umma says about white Muslims who don't dress in robes and thobes (spy, CIA agent).  If you're a woman in western clothes, your sisters and brothers say you're still dressing like the loose whore you were before you converted.  Really, it is a wonder anyone stays in the umma longer than a few weeks - and most probably don't.  Those who do are the ones who try their hardest to change everything about themselves to 'please Allah' like their new Muslim 'friends' are telling them they must. 

    [this space for rent]
  • Re: 75% of muslim converts leave Islam
     Reply #16 - January 22, 2009, 06:59 AM


    Muslim scholars conducted a study in certain parts of the US about muslim converts. The results are quite interesting, it showed a surprisingly large amount left Islam after a while. I was surprised to hear that many converts tend to be ex-cons (60% according to the video).

    Any thoughts?

    I would be really interested in seeing the trends of apostasy in Islam. Anybody know if such figures exists or any indication of how prevalent it is?


    Although I can't be detailed, I will say that I am very familiar with these studies and some of the other issues surrounding this, due to my past work. 

    I would take any Muslim survey of Muslims in the USA with a grain of salt.  There is a lot of bias that goes into determining who is counted and who is surveyed - namely racial bias.  Second, while pressured to do so, most converts don't change their name legally [though they may demand that everyone call them Aisha now or something], so a lot of the demographic surveys that have been attempted go by last names in public directories - which leaves out many people in the largest group of Muslims, African-Americans as well as many people who choose to be unlisted.  So while you can definitely get an idea of some trends and things from these surveys, I wouldn't call them accurate or scientific. Come on, we know what a reputation Muslims have for science and accuracy!  They're not going to spin stuff to their advantage - no way!

    Also, this video uses "convert" and "new Muslim" interchangeably at some points.  They are not the same thing. I don't know how long a person is a "new Muslim" but there are plenty of people who converted to Islam and practised for years and years who apostatise.  I believe Dr. Ba-Yunus' study was on converts as a whole, yet this audio is muddling the issue.  Are we talking about people who leave Islam within a year of converting or are we talking about converts as a whole?  Does the moderator of the event mean one thing while Dr. Ba-Yunus is speaking about something else? 

    The "60% are ex-cons" refers to converts that Dr. Ba-Yunus and his team were able to speak with on the phone in the greater Chicagoland area; it does not mean that it is reflective of converts across the USA as a whole.  Chicago is a very specific place with specific demographics and I'm not sure you can really extrapolate what you find there to reflect the nation as a whole.  In places like Philadelphia you would probably find a lot of ex-cons in the masjids, but it probably wouldn't be the case in a place like San Francisco or Dallas. 

    Anecdotally, I have heard that the number of converts who apostatize is between 60 and 75%; this seems about right to me.  I wouldn't be surprised if the actual number is higher.  The problem is we will never really know. There are people who convert to Islam and then have nothing to do with the umma, they just quietly live their lives and happen to be Muslim.  There are people who convert and are never seen again - does that mean that they have apostatised? I believe that it probably does, in most cases.  There are many, many reasons for this, from the theology of Islam to Muslims themselves to people being spiritual seekers who try on a new outfit every now and then. 

    A lot of people - converts or not - leave Islam when they begin to study it in depth and learn "Everything You Wanted to Know About Islam - But Your Imam Didn't Tell You."  Some on the thread alluded to being told one set of things or giving dawahganda without telling people about the rules - this is definitely something that leads a lot of converts right out the back door of dar al Islam in the end.  Every person I know who has left Islam or is struggling with it - and even many who remain faithful - have complained about this, and talked about how it added so much confusion and even spiritual pain to their journey. 

    Some people I know, including some of my friends, who converted in the years from the late 80s to the early parts of this decade have left Islam, most for atheism.  I do think that more people I know will leave in the future, but I tend to be optimistic.  I don't know very many people who were born Muslims who have left Islam, or who will admit it, at any rate. For example, I have a number of relatives who are completely irreligious and will talk trash about Muslims, but you will never hear them admit that they are atheists.  I would think that this has a lot to do with ethnic identity, culture, family, traditions and so on.  For people who are in Muslim countries, it's also about your legal protections. I certainly never would have come out as an atheist to anyone when I still lived over there.  A convert usually has a non Muslim family, a non Muslim past, and is from a non Muslim society.  I think it is probably easier for converts to leave Islam in that sense.  The few born Muslim apostates I know still have to pretend with their families or when they go overseas to visit relatives. 

    [this space for rent]
  • Re: 75% of muslim converts leave Islam
     Reply #17 - January 22, 2009, 07:11 AM

    of the converts i have met, they either turn out to be alot more serious about their religion than those born into it, otherwise they seem quite ignorant. most of the converts i know have made this choice in regards to marriage, so its hard to say how much faith theyve really invested in it.


    So the converts are either "more serious" about it or "quite ignorant."  Seems to me, just from my own life experiences and observations, that converts pretty much run the same gamut as born Muslims.  There is a meme that Muslims are "more Muslim than the Muslims" but I don't think it's necessarily true.  It's true only in the sense that most (but not all) converts tend to take following the religion seriously - because they chose it, while you have a large portion of, say, the Arab community or the Pakistani community that doesn't practise it or take it seriously at all.  And too, converts tend to stick out more at Muslim events.  Well, and also, people will experience one thing in one place and project it on to people as a whole.  I don't just mean with converts and Islam, I mean in general in life. 

    Regarding marriage, if I may - I think it is a little problematic to assume the intentions.  There are definitely people - men and women - who get introduced to Islam through marriage, but I don't think that many or most of them convert just for convenience's sake in marriage. I personally never met a person who did, and I have known many female converts who get really upset when this is mentioned.

    At the same time, though, I think a lot of the female converts who are married that you see sticking around do so out of fear.  They are afraid to lose their children.  It is not a completely unknown occurrence, at least in the US, for a woman whose kids reach their older teens or adulthood to "suddenly" take off hijab and "suddenly" file for divorce and "suddenly" not be Islamic anymore.  I do know two women whose husbands snatched their kids back overseas, so it's not just a bad movie of the week plot.  It's a real fear for some women.  Women who gave up their education or careers from family or community pressure are afraid they can't provide for their children or themselves, so they stay there, not knowing where to go and what to do.  I know a woman in this situation and it's not happy for her at all. 

    [this space for rent]
  • Re: 75% of muslim converts leave Islam
     Reply #18 - January 22, 2009, 09:31 AM

    Thanks fading, those posts have been very helpful Smiley
  • Re: 75% of muslim converts leave Islam
     Reply #19 - January 22, 2009, 09:35 AM

    Quote
    I personally never met a person who did, and I have known many female converts who get really upset when this is mentioned.


    I have, far too many of them to be precise, and sure they get upset if you suggest they only converted for the sake of their hubbys, but people often get upset in the face of their truths.

    Truth is they wouldn't be muslim if they had met and fallen in love with an atheist, or a christian, or a buddhist, or anything else.


    "I came into the world imbued with the will to find a meaning in things, my spirit filled with the desire to attain to the source of the world, and then I found that I was an object in the midst of other objects" - Fanon
  • Re: 75% of muslim converts leave Islam
     Reply #20 - October 09, 2009, 09:01 PM

    I know this is an old thread, but I wanted to say a few words. In the community I live in or the who have been my friends are either nominal muslims or practising muslims. The only non-muslims I've really known have either been work colleagues who tend to be white or afro-carribean. I only have one non-muslim friend who I have known since I was nine, and he's Sikh. In terms of converts, the only ones I know are the ones who tend to be in the limelight, people such as HY and AHM, who are fairly high profile amongst the ahl-e-sunnah community. These people tend to be at the front and seem to be a "face" for islam. There is a huge amount of respect given to converts, particularly the white converts. I think it's usually expected from the Pakistani community not to be as excited about people from the black community converting (imho). I don't know any converts who have apostated and only know two people personally who have apostated.
  • Re: 75% of muslim converts leave Islam
     Reply #21 - October 10, 2009, 12:44 AM


    It wouldn't surprise me if the real percentage is higher.

    Dawah superheroes whitewash Islam to a point where it is actually unrecognisable once you get to really know it. When reality hits, people who converted, or who came close to converting (like myself once upon a time), look back with disbelief that they could ever have been taken in by it.


    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: 75% of muslim converts leave Islam
     Reply #22 - October 10, 2009, 12:52 AM

    All of the converts I've heard of and met turn out to be this way. Muslims are so fond of them


    This is part of the atmospherics of it all. Those who convert are often people who are experiencing a sense of ennui or disaffection, and when they come into contact with deceptive dawah merchants, its not hard to get hooked by them. Then the attention they receive, the self-esteem is boosted, and in a world in which there is a lot of loneliness and disconnection, in a society that is atomised to a certain extent, to suddenly be placed on a pedestal as it were, to be exulted by a crowd, for a period of time this appeals to them, makes them feel special.

    Then they discover what Islam actually is, and, well, the rest works itself out.


    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: 75% of muslim converts leave Islam
     Reply #23 - October 10, 2009, 01:11 AM

    I have, far too many of them to be precise, and sure they get upset if you suggest they only converted for the sake of their hubbys, but people often get upset in the face of their truths.

    Truth is they wouldn't be muslim if they had met and fallen in love with an atheist, or a christian, or a buddhist, or anything else.


    This chimes with my experience as well. It may be that whilst courting a Muslim a woman (or obviously much more rarely a man) is taken in by the usual Islam-is-just-happiness-and-love psychology, and actually believes it, but the truth is that the social pressures to convert are immense on the side of the non-Muslim and for the sake of keeping things peaceful conversion does take place. I know of a fair few stories like this, and most of them ended miserably. Marrying into a Muslim family is actually nightmarish. Converting to Islam clears you of the filth that you were before (although not too filthy to be the partner of a Muslim boy when he fancied you), but there are certain pressures that can destroy the soul -- that you have to in some way denigrate or marginalise the culture or religion you come from, your children can never be taught their non Muslim heritage, and your relations with your family are to varying degrees to be marginalised or curtailed or decreased in intimacy. When things go wrong, picking up those pieces is hard.

    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: 75% of muslim converts leave Islam
     Reply #24 - October 10, 2009, 01:19 AM

    This is part of the atmospherics of it all. Those who convert are often people who are experiencing a sense of ennui or disaffection, and when they come into contact with deceptive dawah merchants, its not hard to get hooked by them. Then the attention they receive, the self-esteem is boosted, and in a world in which there is a lot of loneliness and disconnection, in a society that is atomised to a certain extent, to suddenly be placed on a pedestal as it were, to be exulted by a crowd, for a period of time this appeals to them, makes them feel special.

    Then they discover what Islam actually is, and, well, the rest works itself out.



     Afro

    My Book     news002       
    My Videos  pccoffee
    Contact  tacklehug

    Islam is a Thought-Suppressant Memeplex dressed in Religious Garbe
  • Re: 75% of muslim converts leave Islam
     Reply #25 - October 10, 2009, 02:47 AM

    I know this is an old thread, but I wanted to say a few words. In the community I live in or the who have been my friends are either nominal muslims or practising muslims. The only non-muslims I've really known have either been work colleagues who tend to be white or afro-carribean. I only have one non-muslim friend who I have known since I was nine, and he's Sikh. In terms of converts, the only ones I know are the ones who tend to be in the limelight, people such as HY and AHM, who are fairly high profile amongst the ahl-e-sunnah community. These people tend to be at the front and seem to be a "face" for islam. There is a huge amount of respect given to converts, particularly the white converts. I think it's usually expected from the Pakistani community not to be as excited about people from the black community converting (imho). I don't know any converts who have apostated and only know two people personally who have apostated.


    The thing is, if there is a guy who's of, say Caribbean descent, and he converts, but he doesn't go whole hog with the fist full of beard and the high water trousers, how would you even know if he's Muslim to begin with? I've been surprised at the people I've met over the decades who are or were Muslim, but you wouldn't know it.  They dress the same and have the same sorts of names as the rest of the majority of the people.  The same follows when they deconvert.  The sufis have driven a lot of people from Islam, but so have the salafis.  I knew a few apostates from the UK, but more from Canada & the US (who were originally converts to Islam).  A lot of converts come in, and go out and no one's ever the wiser. 

    One of those fucktarded Baba Ali videos hit on a real point, which is that when someone says the shahada, it's all 'mashallah!' and then after that, no one pays attention to the person.  I've seen so many women and some men go in to the masjid as converts and leave after a week, a month, a few months, and no one ever even noticed they were there.  You never hear 'What happened to Ashley?  We should call her!'  A friend of mine, who was the first of my Muslim friends to quit, left Islam after two months, and I was pretty much the only person who noticed - and one of the only ones who even noticed she was around for those two months.  It's good that people don't pay attention to converts.  It helps speed up the quitting process for a lot of them. 

    [this space for rent]
  • Re: 75% of muslim converts leave Islam
     Reply #26 - October 10, 2009, 02:49 AM

    This is part of the atmospherics of it all. Those who convert are often people who are experiencing a sense of ennui or disaffection, and when they come into contact with deceptive dawah merchants, its not hard to get hooked by them. Then the attention they receive, the self-esteem is boosted, and in a world in which there is a lot of loneliness and disconnection, in a society that is atomised to a certain extent, to suddenly be placed on a pedestal as it were, to be exulted by a crowd, for a period of time this appeals to them, makes them feel special.

    Then they discover what Islam actually is, and, well, the rest works itself out



    None of that was true for my life.  Just like I didn't convert for my marriage (I was Muslim for years when I got married, but that never stopped anyone from saying it).  Just like I wasn't / am not mentally ill, or recovering from some terribly traumatic event or any of the other reasons that people (who usually are not or were not converts) give for people converting to Islam.  I converted because I believed in it - one god, messengers, a book.  My friends all say the same.  I'm sure it doesn't matter what actual (former) converts say about their actual lives. 

    Oh, and I was never placed on a pedestal. Like a lot of converts, I was not treated very nicely by the Asian and Arab community, and I was never really welcomed in any community when I moved to a new place or tried to seek out new masjids (including, of course, the ones where I was kicked out of the building for the crime of being a woman, and that happened to me many times in my life).  The only communities where I was treated like a human being were in the African-American ones, but they were mostly Salafi or followers of WD Fard, and our ideals were pretty much at odds.  You see one white guy like Hamza Yusuf and say 'Whites are put on pedestals.' Well, hes one guy. The rest of us are being called sluts, junkies, CIA spies, etc.  There may be an Islamic concept of people's pasts being irrelevant upon conversion, but that doesn't translate to real life anymore than some Islamic teachings about racial equality translate to real life with Muslims.  Fact is a lot of us are treated like 'dirty kafirs' by a lot of Asians and Arabs until they need a smiling white or, if necessary, black face to put in a newspaper and show how 'Islam is part of America / Canada / Europe!'  That was the norm -- except when the very pious  men weren't hitting on us.  It's amazing how you can be a convert married to a Muslim man and other Muslim men are still hitting on you and the Muslim women (Arab and Asian) will stay away from you muttering that you're there to 'steal our men' as though  marriage and fidelity mean nothing to people raised in non-Muslim families.

    It just ticks me off to see people who weren't converts speaking about "what converts think" and "why people convert," and it's always for reasons that downplay the sincerity of those people, that downplay their intelligence, their intentions, their genuineness.  The one place those attitudes about converts to Islam shouldn't be found is here, of all places, and yet every time the subject of converts comes up, there it is!

    [this space for rent]
  • Re: 75% of muslim converts leave Islam
     Reply #27 - October 10, 2009, 02:57 AM

    And now i'm late! crap. I knew I should wait until i came back home to read the boards.  I was so late, someone else went instead (I was supposed to go pick some people up after I finished doing something for work... when I finished I said, 'Let me see what's new on the boards.' Mistake).

    Also,  Yankees rule.

    [this space for rent]
  • Re: 75% of muslim converts leave Islam
     Reply #28 - October 10, 2009, 03:09 AM

    Manat, thanks for qualifying my post. I guess all I can say is that we base our observations on our own life experiences and what we have seen of others experiences. As always, the reality is multi-dimensional.


    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Re: 75% of muslim converts leave Islam
     Reply #29 - October 14, 2009, 06:30 PM

    The one place those attitudes about converts to Islam shouldn't be found is here, of all places, and yet every time the subject of converts comes up, there it is!

    We all have different experiences Manat Wink
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