A Serious Question to Ex-Muslims

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[a.ghazali]

I had a very prolonged discussion with some Shia friends and finally asked them, "Gentelmen, will you allow me to have Mut'aa with your sisters?"

The answer was a firm No. They do defend it but do not practise in real life.

BMZ if I ask you 'Would you marry your 6 year old sister or daughter to a 50 year old man?" Would you say yes?

You would defend Muhammad and put him on a pedestal, yet for you it may be a different story.

[Anti-Jihadist]

Hello, AJ

Is their any Anti Jihad here that you had to become Anti-Jihadist? Thanks for the tip.

I will google it before my next travel.  

But you cannot have it because you aren't eligible. It is, I believe, only for Muslims. Is it?  

Take care
BMZ

Hello BMZ,

No one with that nicke here, actually it was the result of a typo, I typed tahoo instead of yahoo.

 

[Manat]

So basically Islam DOES allow prositution, just they give it a different name. 

No, Ella.

It means some Muslims work their own way out. Must be some real sex fiends who need it everyday.

BMZ

Oh please, even a lot of Shia Muslims view muta as prostitution and they don't want their daughters to have that sort of marriage - even if the contract is written for a lot longer than an hour.  And that's why a lot of the girls who get into misyar marriages are poor girls, including victims of human trafficking. 

As for 'sex fiends,' well, whatever.  Supposedly big Al created people with desires, so what's the problem with that.  Also, the prophet did it every day with at least one of his wives, so it must be a Sunnah.  Here's a nice one from Bukhari:

Volume 1, Book 5, Number 268:

Anas bin Malik said, "The Prophet used to visit all his wives in a round, during the day and night and they were eleven in number." I asked Anas, "Had the Prophet the strength for it?" Anas replied, "We used to say that the Prophet was given the strength of thirty (men)."

[BMZ]

BMZ are you a Quran only Muslim? as far as I understand travelers marriage is considered halal in sunni Islam. 

Hello, King Tut

Not really.

I just do not agree with many rotten ahaadith in various collections and various junk accounts in Sirat-un-Nabi.

I do acknowledge material which stands correct in the light and shade of Qur'aan. I reject everything that goes against the teachings of Qur'aan.

Qur'aan stands supreme. However, I do discuss only through Qur'aan.

Mut'aa and Traveller's marriages are against Qur'aan and are haram in Islam. Both fall under Zina. Why can't the Muslim traveller exercise self-control and restrain?

Whoever does so, is actually committing Zina, knowingly.

BMZ

 

[BMZ]

So basically Islam DOES allow prositution, just they give it a different name. 

No, Ella.

It means some Muslims work their own way out. Must be some real sex fiends who need it everyday.

BMZ

Oh please, even a lot of Shia Muslims view muta as prostitution and they don't want their daughters to have that sort of marriage - even if the contract is written for a lot longer than an hour.  And that's why a lot of the girls who get into misyar marriages are poor girls, including victims of human trafficking. 

As for 'sex fiends,' well, whatever.  Supposedly big Al created people with desires, so what's the problem with that.  Also, the prophet did it every day with at least one of his wives, so it must be a Sunnah.  Here's a nice one from Bukhari:

Volume 1, Book 5, Number 268:

Anas bin Malik said, "The Prophet used to visit all his wives in a round, during the day and night and they were eleven in number." I asked Anas, "Had the Prophet the strength for it?" Anas replied, "We used to say that the Prophet was given the strength of thirty (men)."

This 'nice' one is the most ridiculous one.  No one knows who that Anas bin Malik was and who was the other Anas.

I have heard one worse than this for you, which reports that prophet handled all his eleven wives within one hour. This would mean that each wife got 5.45 minutes. Would you use a little common sense here and tell me if all eleven ladies were lying naked in a line and waited like hens waited for the rooster going through? 

Now you are a lady and I am a man. Both of us know that a good love-making session usually takes quite a long time. 

This clearly shows that the above hadith is junk and stuff.

Cheers
BMZ 

[awais]

I have heard one... which reports that the prophet handled all his wives in an hour. This would mean that each got 5.45 minutes... Both of us know that a good love-making session usually takes quite a long time.

I haven't heard this one (one hour), but
Who said it had to be good?

[diotima]

I have heard one... which reports that the prophet handled all his wives in an hour. This would mean that each got 5.45 minutes... Both of us know that a good love-making session usually takes quite a long time.

I haven't heard this one (one hour), but
Who said it had to be good?

the good thing about it was it being over, soon.

and 5.45 minutes (less, if you count the fact he had to get from one to the other) isn?t lovemaking. It?s jerking off on someone.

[Jack Torrance]

I have heard one... which reports that the prophet handled all his wives in an hour. This would mean that each got 5.45 minutes... Both of us know that a good love-making session usually takes quite a long time.

I haven't heard this one (one hour), but
Who said it had to be good?

the good thing about it was it being over, soon.

and 5.45 minutes (less, if you count the fact he had to get from one to the other) isn?t lovemaking. It?s jerking off on someone.

You're beginning to get very crude Dio.

[diotima]

The truth sometimes can look crude. And it would be true in any such case, Mohammed or whoever else.

[Jack Torrance]

The truth sometimes can look crude. And it would be true in any such case, Mohammed or whoever else.

So let's say poor old Prince comes early, you would tell him the 'truth' as stated in your other message?  Your faith really is helping you become a better person isn't it. Sometimes five mins is better than nothing, whether you see it romantically as your partner 'jerking off into you' or 'making love'. Potty mouth, you.

[diotima]

Sorry to have inadvertently hurt your manly feelings, Jack. How was I to know... nevermind.

[SmartAssmodeus]

I have heard one... which reports that the prophet handled all his wives in an hour. This would mean that each got 5.45 minutes... Both of us know that a good love-making session usually takes quite a long time.

I haven't heard this one (one hour), but
Who said it had to be good?

the good thing about it was it being over, soon.

and 5.45 minutes (less, if you count the fact he had to get from one to the other) isn?t lovemaking. It?s jerking off on someone.

Mo was a piker compared to this.

[kamran]

I have heard one... which reports that the prophet handled all his wives in an hour. This would mean that each got 5.45 minutes... Both of us know that a good love-making session usually takes quite a long time.

I haven't heard this one (one hour), but
Who said it had to be good?

the good thing about it was it being over, soon.

and 5.45 minutes (less, if you count the fact he had to get from one to the other) isn?t lovemaking. It?s jerking off on someone.

Lovemaking? Did people know what love making was?
Isn't it a evolved concept? To have more of what feels good?
Eating feels good = Let's eat like a pig.
Fucking feels great = Let's make it last for hours/days.
Nowadays, even if 20 minutes is enough for a guy, he will continue until his woman is satisfied.

1400 years ago:
How long does it take a bull to makelove to a cow?
I ask, because I have heard a lot of 'elders' refer to lovemaking as "Getting rid of the 'Gandha paani' (dirty water).
If this was the thinking of some of the people I knew 40 years ago, in UK.. What was lovemaking like, 1400 hundred years ago, in the holy land?

I don't think this is just a muslim thing. I'll bet it was the same in other religions/cultures.

[SmartAssmodeus]

I have heard one... which reports that the prophet handled all his wives in an hour. This would mean that each got 5.45 minutes... Both of us know that a good love-making session usually takes quite a long time.

I haven't heard this one (one hour), but
Who said it had to be good?

the good thing about it was it being over, soon.

and 5.45 minutes (less, if you count the fact he had to get from one to the other) isn?t lovemaking. It?s jerking off on someone.

Lovemaking? Did people know what love making was?
Isn't it a evolved concept? To have more of what feels good?
Eating feels good = Let's eat like a pig.
Fucking feels great = Let's make it last for hours/days.
Nowadays, even if 20 minutes is enough for a guy, he will continue until his woman is satisfied.

1400 years ago:
How long does it take a bull to makelove to a cow?
I ask, because I have heard a lot of 'elders' refer to lovemaking as "Getting rid of the 'Gandha paani' (dirty water).
If this was the thinking of some of the people I knew 40 years ago, in UK.. What was lovemaking like, 1400 hundred years ago, in the holy land?

I don't think this is just a muslim thing. I'll bet it was the same in other religions/cultures.

It was probably very simple:  Mount, squirt, and wait for the kidlets with no concern for her feelings.

[Jack Torrance]

I don't think this is just a muslim thing. I'll bet it was the same in other religions/cultures.

Exactly Kamran, don't forget that some poeple on here will invent any scenario and make it as vulgar worded as possible, for no other reason than 'Ohh, here's a another chance to offend' when all they are really doing is revealing there own fucked up thoughts, and lack of a decent sex life.

[diotima]

I don't think this is just a muslim thing. I'll bet it was the same in other religions/cultures.

and whoever said it was? I don?t even think it?s specifically cultural (although I hear, there?s a taboo on kissing among the Massai, which doesn?t bode well for good sex), let alone religious. There are such men in all groups and at all times... am pretty sure, people knew about good sex long before the industrial revolution. I mean - the kamasutra is a lot older, as is erotic literature generally speaking.

[kamran]

I don't think this is just a muslim thing. I'll bet it was the same in other religions/cultures.

and whoever said it was? I don?t even think it?s specifically cultural (although I hear, there?s a taboo on kissing among the Massai, which doesn?t bode well for good sex), let alone religious. There are such men in all groups and at all times... am pretty sure, people knew about good sex long before the industrial revolution. I mean - the kamasutra is a lot older, as is erotic literature generally speaking.

What is good sex?
Won't everyone's idea of good sex be different, and based on their circumstances?
Both male and female?
Perhaps womens expectations were different then?

I'm unable to have good sex with any female, unless she 'turns me on'.
Which generally means a female who is good looking; fit; slim; smells nice; doesn't have bad breath; knows the moves.
So far, for me, that has been a white, blue eyed, blonde.
Even the contrast in our skin color is erotic.
My experience of anything less, has been negative.
I base my 'needs' on trying the different apples, and settling on the one I like.
Had I not had that, I would have been grateful for any tub of lard. 
Take me back 1400 years and I would have loved that donkey, for the 30 seconds.

A lot of people don't know and have never experienced being 'turned on'.
Or even love.

On top of that, lovemaking has to be in a decent enviroment.
I don't think I'd have good sex in a tent/mud hut, in the dark, or with oil lamps.
And creepy crawlies everywhere.
Perhaps a dozen kids sleeping nearby.
Add the grandparents too, if you like. 

So, the people who knew about good sex, knew about it through their own circumstances.

I'm not arguing with you dio, just giving my views. 

[Jack Torrance]

I'm unable to have good sex with any female, unless she 'turns me on'.

Wow, that's a challenging new way of looking at things Kamran.

[Humanoid]

I'm unable to have good sex with any female, unless she 'turns me on'.

Wow, that's a challenging new way of looking at things Kamran.

Some people appear to have the option to be selective.

[King Tut]

fading the issue is the proliferation of prostitution. When I was in Pakistan (4 - 5 years ago) when I was a Muslim, me and a few friends bought a prostitute for a few nights to have sex with her, it was (4,000rs +2000) in for food, condoms etc...  Roughly costing, 80, 90 pounds a night, as you know prostitution is illegal in Pakistan, and for Zina its 100 lashes and 3,000 pound fine. Now me and this prostitute were having sex, when a friend came running and shouting me to leave the house, as someone has called the police. He told me and the prostitute to walk down the road and out of the village. So we did, the prostitute but her burqah on and started walking with me, the instructions we were given was, that is anyone asks I should say she is my wife. 

Anyway as we were walking down, the police had cordoned off the road, and it would have looked sucpsius turning back, so we kept walking. The woman (prostitute) was very scared of being arrested, she gave me clear instructions, she said, if we get caught, we need to state we did a nikah mutha, at worst her pimp would back her up (pretend to be her father) so we get out of the situation. Anyway we walked pass the police and we did not get arrested, the police was there for a unrelated issue. 

Later on I was informed, at the harem (or the pimps domain) which was a large house full of really hot women, to always state I am a Shia, and its a muth marriage, the police under sharia then have no authority over you. They have to take your word for it.

I realized, nikkah mutha or a travellers marriage is just a form of Islamic prostitution which is considered "halal" permissible. 

In any case, I am happy married now, and do have sex with other women, free or for money.     

[King Tut]

The one thing I miss was, the BDSM, and the aggressiveness of some of the prostitutes. They would seriously take control and take your money too if you were not careful!

[PeruvianSkies]

I don't think this is just a muslim thing. I'll bet it was the same in other religions/cultures.

and whoever said it was? I don?t even think it?s specifically cultural (although I hear, there?s a taboo on kissing among the Massai, which doesn?t bode well for good sex), let alone religious. There are such men in all groups and at all times... am pretty sure, people knew about good sex long before the industrial revolution. I mean - the kamasutra is a lot older, as is erotic literature generally speaking.

Good sex existed in animals long before humans were ever around, they've performed every type of sex imaginable (from oral to groupsomes). There is even a museum dedicated to displaying the 'art' of animal sex