A Serious Question to Ex-Muslims

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[BMZ]

You said "I don't know if the qu'ran promotes or endorses prostitution I don't know if the qu'ran promotes or endorses prostitution but it may permit it.

What are you trying to say by writing "but it may permit it". How so?

Well where does your average Joe like myself look for an example on the application of Islamic scriptures if we can't look at the most Islamic societies on this planet.

What I'm trying to say is if prostitution exists in Saudi Arabia or Iran then I'm guessing that it is at least tolerated Islamically.

You may argue that these countries are not real Islamic societies but I'll leave that for the Islamic experts to decide.

Prostitution is all over the globe. No nation and no country can deny that.

Prostitution may be carried out discreetly in Muslim countries but you cannot term it Islamically.

That is not the right answer and you do not need experts, you and I can decide that.

BMZ

If you want to bring the cultural crap into this then here is some cultural crap: In the islamic culture the prostitute has it the easiest in the world. All she needs is a veil and a cell phone. In Europe at least they have to keep to certain areas and certain streets, in the middle east they hooked at the doors of a mosque. In Cairo when we see a woman standing still in a veil, then she is assumed to be a whore. And we have tons. Even better, when a whore is arrested with a john, the john will claim he married her, and the cops can not do sh1t about it.

In Tehran, they needed to nail the chief of police, so they had to bust him with 6 prostitutes. Six. Because if they nailed him with 4 he could have claimed he married them. To make it stick on him they needed Six. So I would advise you keep the cultural crap out of this because the "muslim" laundry is quite dirty when it comes to prostitution. And I am not even covering under-age prostitution yet.

Baal,

I had already mentioned in the title that this was a serious question.

I did not ask you for your above crap and I do not know and do not want to know how dirty was your laundry when you were a Muslim. 

You have just to tell me as an ex-Muslim, whether you believed at that time, if Islam supported prostitution? You have lived the life of a Muslim with members of your families before. Right?

I am not asking you about the crap done in Europe or the Middle East or the world over. I need your answer to my question. Answer first, then you can write any crap. Whether I respond or not, is my choice.

BMZ

[awais]

As a muslim, I would have believed prostitution to be haram, like zina.

[Baal]

Baal,

Bla Bla Bla a serious question Bla Bla I did not ask you for bla bla above crap bla bla You have just to tell me bla bla if Islam supported prostitution bla bla bla I am not asking you bla bla crap done in Europe Bla Bla I need your Bla Bla  Bla Answer first Bla Bla then you can Bla Bla Bla

BMZ,

Starting a forum with a question, does not give you (or anyone) a license to sneak in an unchallenged opinion or unfounded assumption.

You stated the following assumption: "Prostitution may be carried out discreetly in Muslim countries but you cannot term it Islamically. "
And I answered you that prostitution in muslim countries can and does get termed islamically.

btw, I am sorry if I broke the conversation script that Ahmad trained you with. Now you might have to improvise. So again, I am very sorry.

[AhmedBahgat]

And Haik Monsieur makes me laugh, the arrogance and complete belief in his genius is enough to put anyone off the stuff he is writing.....well so I thought.

He left here crying about how we were all fake ex muslims because we didn't fall for his "I'm a super brainiac" routine"

Well said darling

he is a complete jerk of a freak to be honest, I have exposed him so many time until he was life dismissed

Cheers

[Cheetah]

Hello, Cheetah

Good point.

You are right. I should have clarified that. Yes, just the Qur'aan.
Hadith are not the scripture. Qur'aan is the Scripture and it reigns Supreme.

Thanks for bringing it up.

Cheers
BMZ

Hello BMZ,

But that is not quite clarified.  You asked

My question: As ex-Muslims, do you believe that Islam supports prostitution?

Few, if any, ex-muslims here were ever Qur'an only muslims.  So if you want to know their former beliefs, you should not be taking sahih hadiths off the table.

You need to clarify again.  Do you want to know their former beliefs, or their former reading of the Qur'an?

[BMZ]

Hello BMZ,

But that is not quite clarified.  You asked

My question: As ex-Muslims, do you believe that Islam supports prostitution?

Few, if any, ex-muslims here were ever Qur'an only muslims.  So if you want to know their former beliefs, you should not be taking sahih hadiths off the table.

You need to clarify again.  Do you want to know their former beliefs, or their former reading of the Qur'an?

Hello, Cheetah

Forget about Qur'aan, Hadith and all other Jam'aa.

Let me ask you just this, assuming you were a Muslim once:

Did you ever believe that Islam supported prostitution?

Either a simple Yes or a simple No, would suffice. But don't write Yes or No back, please. 

Cheers
BMZ

[awais]

What is your aim/point/purpose with this question BMZ?

[speaklow]

Hello BMZ,

But that is not quite clarified.  You asked

My question: As ex-Muslims, do you believe that Islam supports prostitution?

Few, if any, ex-muslims here were ever Qur'an only muslims.  So if you want to know their former beliefs, you should not be taking sahih hadiths off the table.

You need to clarify again.  Do you want to know their former beliefs, or their former reading of the Qur'an?

Hello, Cheetah

Forget about Qur'aan, Hadith and all other Jam'aa.

Let me ask you just this, assuming you were a Muslim once:

Did you ever believe that Islam supported prostitution?

Either a simple Yes or a simple No, would suffice. But don't write Yes or No back, please. 

Cheers
BMZ

Although not an ex-Muslim I was the first person to attempt to answer you're original question. It seems now that you've completely deviated from your original post.

It was more or less decided last night that the members on this forum do not want it to become an FFI nut house so please stick to the original question or start a new thread relating to perceived beliefs rather than interpretation of scriptures.

I don't know you but I must admit I feel a bit embarrassed having to ask you this.

[All_Brains]

Hello all

This is All_Brains....Missed you all!

I have been in debate with Ahmed for a while now and while I am of the opinion that Islam does not support prostitution in its traditional definition, Islam disguise "prostitution" under the sanction of a very "dodgy" understanding of marriage .

I don't think Islam sanctioned prostitution for one simple reason, why pay for sex when you can have it for free...

The rape of women under "right-hand possession" right and even forceful marriages as excericed by Muhammad himself when he married the Jewish Safiyah the same evening he slaughtered her husband and her entire family...

Did Safiyah fall in love with Muhammad following the beheading of 900 of her tribe and family members??

In my opinion Islam does not sanction "prostitution", however it sanctions what is way worse...Rape.

After all prostitution in its legalised form "sex between consented adults in exchange for money", has very little effect specially if the parties concerned are not in the cheating business.

Rape on the other hand has very negative psychological consequences that can be passed on to generations to come.

All_Brains

[BMZ]

Hello all

This is All_Brains....Missed you all!

I have been in debate with Ahmed for a while now and while I am of the opinion that Islam does not support prostitution in its traditional definition, Islam disguise "prostitution" under the sanction of a very "dodgy" understanding of marriage .

I don't think Islam sanctioned prostitution for one simple reason, why pay for sex when you can have it for free...

The rape of women under "right-hand possession" right and even forceful marriages as excericed by Muhammad himself when he married the Jewish Safiyah the same evening he slaughtered her husband and her entire family...

Did Safiyah fall in love with Muhammad following the beheading of 900 of her tribe and family members??

In my opinion Islam does not sanction "prostitution", however it sanctions what is way worse...Rape.

After all prostitution in its legalised form "sex between consented adults in exchange for money", has very little effect specially if the parties concerned are not in the cheating business.

Rape on the other hand has very negative psychological consequences that can be passed on to generations to come.

All_Brains

lol,   A_B

This means more work. Looks like somebody has opened a topic on this.

Okay, that was an interesting OP within the thread. lol!

Will write when I have more time.

Take care, mate

BMZ

Edited to add: Sorry, A_B, Peruvian Skies is talking about marital rape in Islam.

[Cheetah]

Hello, Cheetah

Forget about Qur'aan, Hadith and all other Jam'aa.

Let me ask you just this, assuming you were a Muslim once:

Did you ever believe that Islam supported prostitution?

Either a simple Yes or a simple No, would suffice. But don't write Yes or No back, please.  Smiley

Cheers
BMZ

Hello BMZ,

I'm not an ex-muslim, that's why I didn't attempt to answer your question.  I only stuck my oar in to try and clarify the question for those who did want to answer.

Incidentally, if I was going to answer the question I would be leaning towards no.  The muta thing sounds dodgy, but its not very widely accepted is it?  So its mostly a no, Islam doesn't sanction prostitution, as far as I know.

[King Tut]

I always believed that prostitution was Haram when I was a muslim, it wasn't until after when I started reading more to do with Islam, that I realised temporary marriage (which is not practised by sunnis anymore, but is by shias) is just glorified prostitution.

And Haik Monsieur makes me laugh, the arrogance and complete belief in his genius is enough to put anyone off the stuff he is writing.....well so I thought.

He left here crying about how we were all fake ex muslims because we didn't fall for his "I'm a super brainiac" routine"

travelers marriage (Nikah Misyar) is practiced by (sunni) Muslims namely in the Arab world.

[BerberElla]

travelers marriage (Nikah Misyar) is practiced by (sunni) Muslims namely in the Arab world.

To this day? 

[King Tut]

travelers marriage (Nikah Misyar) is practiced by (sunni) Muslims namely in the Arab world.

To this day? 

Yes. Mainly by students and wealthy Arabs.

[King Tut]

Islamic lawyers add that this type of marriage fits the needs of a conservative society which punishes ?zina? (fornication) and other sexual relationships which are established outside a marriage contract. Thus, some Muslim foreigners working in the Gulf countries prefer to engage in the misyar marriage rather than live alone for years. Many of them are actually already married with wives and children in their home country, but they cannot bring them to the region. - wiki

[Anti-Jihadist]

travelers marriage (Nikah Misyar) is practiced by (sunni) Muslims namely in the Arab world.

To this day? 

Yes. Just google Misyar and you will come across some misyar matrimonials from saudi arabia.

[BerberElla]

So basically Islam DOES allow prositution, just they give it a different name. 

[diotima]

Not trying to offend anyone, but oesn?t the concept of  "Mahr" , of buying a wife, make her "halal" for money, make the islamic concept of marriage pretty close to prostutition, anyway, especially, since divorce for the man is so very easy?

[Anti-Jihadist]

So basically Islam DOES allow prositution, just they give it a different name. 

Misyar is a marriage of convenience where the partners do not have to be living under the same roof, but the man will have visitation rights ( ) to  the woman's abode.

[BMZ]

Hello, Cheetah

Forget about Qur'aan, Hadith and all other Jam'aa.

Let me ask you just this, assuming you were a Muslim once:

Did you ever believe that Islam supported prostitution?

Either a simple Yes or a simple No, would suffice. But don't write Yes or No back, please.  Smiley

Cheers
BMZ

Hello BMZ,

I'm not an ex-muslim, that's why I didn't attempt to answer your question.  I only stuck my oar in to try and clarify the question for those who did want to answer.

Incidentally, if I was going to answer the question I would be leaning towards no.  The muta thing sounds dodgy, but its not very widely accepted is it?  So its mostly a no, Islam doesn't sanction prostitution, as far as I know.

Thank you, Cheetah. Yes, Mut'aa is a Shia thingy and is not widely accepted.

I had a very prolonged discussion with some Shia friends and finally asked them, "Gentelmen, will you allow me to have Mut'aa with your sisters?"

The answer was a firm No. They do defend it but do not practise in real life. If they do, you will hear reports of many Mut'aa couples hanged or killed in Iran everyday. 

Mut'aa, simply means sex and fun, is haram and falls under prostitution. There is no such word as Mut'aa in Qur'aan.

Thanks, once again for being frank.

Good night
BMZ

[Anti-Jihadist]

'Misyar' biz thrives in Saudi Arabia

Misyar marriages are usually clandestine and the women in most cases forfeit all their rights. Why should any women accept such conditions? The reason is usually a lack of options to get married traditionally. Some may have passed the most-sought-after marriage age and others may be widows or divorcees.

In the majority of such marriages, the woman always seeks a stable married life. But the kinds of men who seek misyar are usually married and want a second wife without disrupting their first marriage. As expected, the first wife would object to the marriage and things could get complicated, eventually the misyar would end up in divorce, an Arab News report said.

Men who don't have enough income to be the breadwinner for two families also seek misyar, instead of taking a second wife through a traditional marriage. It is interesting to note that a minority of women have turned misyar into a business. These women never intend to stay married to the same man for more than a few months; the cause of this is the lucrative dowry they get from each marriage. And during the few months of marriage they try to extract as much money as they can.

If the husband refuses to divorce at any point in the marriage, they then use what they claim is a very effective way of making him obey: They threaten to inform the first wife of the secret marriage. One such woman is Siham, who has been married six times (one traditional and five misyar). She said men who are "scared to death of their first wives" are exactly the type she seeks to marry in misyar.

"I only marry men who are afraid of their first wives and are financially well off," said Siham, who asked to be known only by her nickname, which means "Arrows" in Arabic. "When I hear that there is a suitor looking for misyar, I check two things -- whether he is wealthy and whether he is afraid of his wife," said Siham, adding that she takes no less than SR30,000 in dowry. In many misyar marriages the husband usually doesn't live with the woman and tends to visit his wife whenever it is convenient. All five of Siham's former husbands have been such.

Prior to the misyar marriage, Siham's husband-to-be is made to believe that no financial support will be required of him, and that all the marriage will cost him is the dowry.

However, after the marriage Siham reveals her true colour. Every time her husband wants to visit her (once in a week or two) she fleeces anything between SR5,000 and SR7,000 from him. "I make him pay all my expenses, otherwise I don't allow him visits," she said. "I believe men have been taking advantage of women in misyar marriages. They take so much from women and give so little, but I've turned the tables on them."

After getting divorced, Siham completes the waiting period of four months and 10 days, which is required by the Shariah before a widow or a divorcee marries again. Ever since Siham turned misyar into a business, she has been very careful about her dealings. She said she had kept all her husbands in the dark about how many times she had been married. "I tell them that I have been married once," she said. "And there is no way for them to find out because after my first marriage, which was a traditional one, my other marriages were not registered in the court."

Siham says that her first husband abused her for years until she got divorced from him. But what made Siham think of misyar as a business? Siham claims that she learned of this eccentric trade from some women she befriended.

"I learned from my friends who like me were abused by their first husbands," she said. According to Islamic law, a marriage is not legitimate if any of the spouses gets married with the intention of ending the union after a specific period.



? Bahrain Tribune 2008

Siham, which means "Arrows" in Arabic, most definitely knows how to shoot around the shariah system  

[BMZ]

I always believed that prostitution was Haram when I was a muslim, it wasn't until after when I started reading more to do with Islam, that I realised temporary marriage (which is not practised by sunnis anymore, but is by shias) is just glorified prostitution.

And Haik Monsieur makes me laugh, the arrogance and complete belief in his genius is enough to put anyone off the stuff he is writing.....well so I thought.

He left here crying about how we were all fake ex muslims because we didn't fall for his "I'm a super brainiac" routine"

travelers marriage (Nikah Misyar) is practiced by (sunni) Muslims namely in the Arab world.

Well, that is also Haram. If they do such an act, which is totally against Qur'aan.

Honestly, I don't know how they do that and how can they justify that.

BMZ

[King Tut]

BMZ are you a Quran only Muslim? as far as I understand travelers marriage is considered halal in sunni Islam. 

[BMZ]

travelers marriage (Nikah Misyar) is practiced by (sunni) Muslims namely in the Arab world.

To this day? 

Yes. Just google Misyar and you will come across some misyar matrimonials from saudi arabia.

Hello, AJ

Is their any Anti Jihad here that you had to become Anti-Jihadist? Thanks for the tip.

I will google it before my next travel.  

But you cannot have it because you aren't eligible. It is, I believe, only for Muslims. Is it?  

Take care
BMZ

[BMZ]

So basically Islam DOES allow prositution, just they give it a different name. 

No, Ella.

It means some Muslims work their own way out. Must be some real sex fiends who need it everyday.

BMZ