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 Topic: Britain's most influential Muslim in apology for homophobia shocker

 (Read 13780 times)
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  • Britain's most influential Muslim in apology for homophobia shocker
     Reply #90 - May 10, 2013, 12:49 PM

    Quote
    The root of the problem here lies in not distinguishing between the same-sex attraction that many people, including obviously some Muslims, feel, and the actual act of sexual relations between two people of the same sex. As Dr. Winter explained in his answer, some people appear to be born with the tendency towards homosexuality, but “if they do not act upon this tendency, they are not sinning.” Unfortunately, that distinction is not commonly drawn


    So, all they have to do is suppress all of their physical urges and lead a completely unfulfilled sex life for their entire time on earth and they will be fine. Makes sense.

    Quote
    something incomprehensible to anyone with even a rudimentary knowledge of the Prophet Muhammad’s character—he was called “al-Amin” (the trustworthy) because he was known never to break his word, ever.


    Wait, what’s that smell? Oh, it’s bullshit!
    Al-Bukhari recorded that `Ubayd bin `Umayr said that he heard `A'ishah claiming that Allah's Messenger used to stay for a period in the house of Zaynab bint Jahsh and drink honey in her house. (She said) "Hafsah and I decided that when the Prophet entered upon either of us, we would say, `I smell Maghafir on you. Have you eaten Maghafir' When he entered upon one of us, she said that to him. He replied (to her),
    (No, but I drank honey in the house of Zaynab bint Jahsh, and I will never drink it again.)'' Then the following was revealed;
    (O Prophet! Why do you fobid that which Allah has allowed to you) up to,
    (If you both turn in repentance to Allah, your hearts are indeed so inclined;) in reference to `A'ishah and Hafsah.
    (And (remember) when the Prophet disclosed a matter in confidence to one of his wives,) which refers to this saying,
    (But I have drunk honey.) Ibrahim bin Musa said that Hisham said that it also meant his saying,
    (I will not drink it anymore, I have taken an oath to that. Therefore, do not inform anybody about it.)
    Quote
    Fascists demand always that there be only one way of thinking, living, or believing.


    Interesting! Is that what fascists do?

    Surah 3:85 And whoever desires other than Islam as religion - never will it be accepted from him, and he, in the Hereafter, will be among the losers.

    Quote
    One critic argued that Dr. Winter’s characterization of his comments as “youthful enthusiasms” is unacceptable given he was in his mid-30s at the time. However, in the Arabic language, the word “youth” (shab) indicates a period of one’s life that lasts until the age of 40…

    Right. English is obviously his second language. His mind was clearly thinking of the Arabic definition of youth where anyone younger than 40 is legally still a minor.

    Quote
    Unfortunately, some critics and many troll commentators have suggested that Dr. Winter is practicing “taqiyyah,” a word now entering the Western vocabulary...

    Hmm…Well now that you mention it…
    Quote
    Moreover, the guidance that he would impart to fellow Muslims who share the same beliefs as he does would naturally differ from his lectures whereby he would be sensitive as a professional and acknowledge the diverse sensibilities of a post-modern student body with all the varieties that that entails.

    Hey, you brought the taqiya thing up Hamza, not me.


    Quote
    Meanwhile, let us be aware that much more formidable storms are raging in the world. We should be far more occupied with putting out the fires of war and tending to the needs of the refugees of real tempests than trying to get someone fired for “youthful enthusiasms.”

    So, why are you wasting your time worrying about such a trivial matter as a university professor getting fired? Shouldn’t you be stopping wars and feeding puppies and saving whales right about now? Oh right, he’s your friend so it matters to you. But his atrocious words shouldn’t matter to those of us who have friends and family who are homosexual, right? I got it. Thanks Ham-bone.
  • Britain's most influential Muslim in apology for homophobia shocker
     Reply #91 - May 10, 2013, 01:36 PM

    Quote
    but “if they do not act upon this tendency, they are not sinning.” Unfortunately, that distinction is not commonly drawn


    What I love is the utter witlessness that begs people to think that this is in any way not inhumane and bigoted.

    They're basically saying that as long as you don't make love to another man you're OK (Islam is compassionionate!) but if you do, you're a loathsome sinning blasphemy of the very paradigm of Allah blah blah blah

    When even your 'liberal' defence of homophobic dehumanisation is full with homophobic prejudice, you're pushing snake oil full blast.

    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Britain's most influential Muslim in apology for homophobia shocker
     Reply #92 - May 10, 2013, 01:49 PM

    It's ok to be gay. Just don't actually BE GAY.
  • Britain's most influential Muslim in apology for homophobia shocker
     Reply #93 - May 10, 2013, 01:53 PM

    ^ This was the Church of England line for ages.
  • Britain's most influential Muslim in apology for homophobia shocker
     Reply #94 - May 10, 2013, 01:58 PM

    In a history of fascism, how many chapters would Islam have?  Maybe it is the other way round - Islam hasn't got fascist tendencies, fascism has deep roots?

    Quote
    Upon the rise of Adolf Hitler, gay men and, to a lesser extent, lesbians, were two of the numerous groups targeted by the Nazi Party and were ultimately among Holocaust victims. Beginning in 1933, gay organizations were banned, scholarly books about homosexuality, and sexuality in general, were burned, and homosexuals within the Nazi Party itself were murdered. The Gestapo compiled lists of homosexuals, who were compelled to sexually conform to the "German norm."

    Between 1933 and 1945, an estimated 100,000 men were arrested as homosexuals, of whom some 50,000 were officially sentenced.[1] Most of these men served time in regular prisons, and an estimated 5,000 to 15,000 of those sentenced were incarcerated in Nazi concentration camps.[1] It is unclear how many of the 5,000 to 15,000 eventually perished in the camps, but leading scholar Rüdiger Lautmann believes that the death rate of homosexuals in concentration camps may have been as high as 60%. Homosexuals in the camps were treated in an unusually cruel manner by their captors.

    After the war, the treatment of homosexuals in concentration camps went unacknowledged by most countries, and some men were even re-arrested and imprisoned based on evidence found during the Nazi years. It was not until the 1980s that governments began to acknowledge this episode, and not until 2002 that the German government apologized to the gay community.[2] This period still provokes controversy, however. In 2005, the European Parliament adopted a resolution on the Holocaust which included the persecution of homosexuals.


    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_homosexuals_in_Nazi_Germany_and_the_Holocaust

    When you are a Bear of Very Little Brain, and you Think of Things, you find sometimes that a Thing which seemed very Thingish inside you is quite different when it gets out into the open and has other people looking at it.


    A.A. Milne,

    "We cannot slaughter each other out of the human impasse"
  • Re: Britain's most influential Muslim in apology for homophobia shocker
     Reply #95 - May 10, 2013, 03:43 PM

    So, all they have to do is suppress all of their physical urges and lead a completely unfulfilled sex life for their entire time on earth and they will be fine. Makes sense.

    It's like saying you don't have a problem with Muslims as long as they merely entertain the idea of being a Muslim in the confines of their mind and don't actually be a Muslim in any real and perceptible sense, because that would be immoral.

    I wonder how he'd take that suggestion.

    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Britain's most influential Muslim in apology for homophobia shocker
     Reply #96 - May 10, 2013, 03:46 PM

    Quote
    but “if they do not act upon this tendency, they are not sinning.” Unfortunately, that distinction is not commonly drawn

    What I love is the utter witlessness that begs people to think that this is in any way not inhumane and bigoted.

    They're basically saying that as long as you don't make love to another man you're OK (Islam is compassionionate!) but if you do, you're a loathsome sinning blasphemy of the very paradigm of Allah blah blah blah

    When even your 'liberal' defence of homophobic dehumanisation is full with homophobic prejudice, you're pushing snake oil full blast.

    It's a distinction without difference. A gay person is still the subject of the invective. The essential and indelible components at the core of gay identity and expression, the fulsomeness of being a gay person, is still under verbal attack and judgement. It's still a plain, garden variety homophobic talking point. And it's still an intellectually unsupportable position. Still baseless, superstitious, irrational, illogical, voodoo wrongness.

    How is it even possible to split the essence of sexuality into binary thought and act? Humans are high-functioning mammals – sensual, sexual creatures with all kinds of wants, needs, appetites and kinks, manifesting inwards and outwards in a whole spectrum of feelings and expressions, in so many contexts from trivial to profound, rational and emotional, conscious and subconscious. He has such a superficial and undeveloped comprehension of the human experience. No wonder the crude and ignorant precepts of Islam sit right with him. And no wonder his attempts to articulate and intellectualise his perception end up sounding so myopic and unenlightening.

    Too fucking busy, and vice versa.
  • Britain's most influential Muslim in apology for homophobia shocker
     Reply #97 - May 10, 2013, 04:05 PM

    Quote
    It's a distinction without difference


    Perfect way of describing it

    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Britain's most influential Muslim in apology for homophobia shocker
     Reply #98 - September 25, 2013, 12:20 PM

    Tone deaf and self-pitying, it reads all too much like a prolonged goodbye to his status as a respectable Muslim interlocutor.


    Did I speak too soon, or not soon enough?

    http://www.cam.ac.uk/festival-of-ideas/events-and-booking/a-common-word-between-us-a-muslim-christian-conversation
  • Britain's most influential Muslim in apology for homophobia shocker
     Reply #99 - September 25, 2013, 02:32 PM


      Hmm THAT FOOL..    Abdal Hakim Murad..   Tim Winter  .. or TIM WANKER ..whatever ..

    Well the man changed.. but loong way to go.. sure he will change more..

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rDezfKMDFzA

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZLWnUjZEJN0

    you are lucky.. you escaped Tablighi Jamaat......

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Britain's most influential Muslim in apology for homophobia shocker
     Reply #100 - September 25, 2013, 02:53 PM

    What is it about the facial expressions of religious people?

    When you are a Bear of Very Little Brain, and you Think of Things, you find sometimes that a Thing which seemed very Thingish inside you is quite different when it gets out into the open and has other people looking at it.


    A.A. Milne,

    "We cannot slaughter each other out of the human impasse"
  • Britain's most influential Muslim in apology for homophobia shocker
     Reply #101 - September 25, 2013, 06:02 PM

    After reading this thread I have to say that Ishina, you sum it up beautifully.

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Britain's most influential Muslim in apology for homophobia shocker
     Reply #102 - September 25, 2013, 06:54 PM

    What is it about the facial expressions of religious people?


     

    Are you talking about that guy's face moi?? When Americans threw uncle Osama dead body on to ocean  that TIM Johny WANKER aka   a.k.a. Abdal Hakim Murad said "that dropping Bin Laden in the sea the American's may actually have created a shrine"...  These western converts of Islam move freely from Jihad-Jihad Islam to Sufi dopi Islam .,  but you never know who chooses what type of Islam.  Lucky Johny WANKER., if he was bit young he would joined that Anjum Choudary group  and would have become a Jihadi in some African Nations  such as  this guy

    Rascal speaks fluent Arabic..

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Britain's most influential Muslim in apology for homophobia shocker
     Reply #103 - September 25, 2013, 09:48 PM

    Can't people see what I am on about?  It is in all the pictures above, bit stary, no smiles, actually looking quite ill.

    When you are a Bear of Very Little Brain, and you Think of Things, you find sometimes that a Thing which seemed very Thingish inside you is quite different when it gets out into the open and has other people looking at it.


    A.A. Milne,

    "We cannot slaughter each other out of the human impasse"
  • Britain's most influential Muslim in apology for homophobia shocker
     Reply #104 - September 25, 2013, 10:28 PM



    Rowan Williams is such a sap. A very intelligent man, but very wrong on many issues like sharia in Britain. The Tim Winter's types find him easy to court because he falls for their spiel every time.


    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • Britain's most influential Muslim in apology for homophobia shocker
     Reply #105 - September 26, 2013, 03:53 AM

    Rowan Williams is such a sap. A very intelligent man, but very wrong on many issues like sharia in Britain. The Tim Winter's types find him easy to court because he falls for their spiel every time.

    A well-meaning, trusting sap. Sometimes being a cynical bastard does one a world of good.
  • Britain's most influential Muslim in apology for homophobia shocker
     Reply #106 - September 26, 2013, 03:57 AM

    A well-meaning, trusting sap. Sometimes being a cynical bastard does one a world of good.


    who? who is cynical bastard ?  Rowan Williams ?  Nah .... Muslims consider him as USEFUL IDIOT  and Christians consider him as USELESS IDIOT .. and I consider him as useless idiot to Christianity as well as Islam..

      and on that Abdal Hakim Murad Let us read one of his articles   Bombing Without Moonlight  The Origins of Suicidal Terrorism  by  Abdal-Hakim Murad

    Quote
    In this light, how may we take the pulse of the West’s denunciation of ‘Muslim terror’? Let us recall Adorno’s First Law of sexual ethics: always mistrust the accuser.

    4. Samson Terroristes

    The targeting of civilians is more Western than otherwise; contemplating the Ground Zero of a hundred German cities, this can hardly be denied. Yet it will be claimed that suicidal terrorism is something new, and definitively un-Western. Here, we are told by xenophobes on both sides, the Islamic suicide squads, the Black Widows, the death-dealing pilots, are an indigenously Islamic product.[33] And yet here again, when we detach ourselves from the emotive chauvinism of the Islamists and their Judeo-Christian misinterpreters, we soon find that the roots of such practices in the Islamic imagination are as recent as they are shallow. The genealogy of suicide bombing clearly stretches back from Palestine, through Shi‘a guerillas in southern Lebanon, to the Hindu-nativist zealots of the Tamil Tigers, and to the holy warriors of Shinto Japan, who initiated the tradition of donning a bandanna and making a final testament on camera before climbing into the instrument of destruction. The kamikaze was literally the 'Wind of Heaven', a term evocative of the divine intervention which destroyed the Mongol fleet as it crossed the Yellow Sea.

    Hindu and Buddhist tributaries of Middle-Eastern suicide bombing are conspicuous, and it is significant that the Islamists, driven as ever by nativist passion, recoil from them in fits of denial. (How happily, in the sermons, hunud rhymes with yahud!) Yet some scenic images may be instructive for those who take the philosophy of isnad seriously. After describing the Christian martyr Peregrinus, who set fire to himself in public, Sir James Frazier records:

    Buddhist monks in China sometimes seek to attain Nirvana by the same method, the flame of their religious zeal being fanned by a belief that the merit of their death redounds to the good of the whole community, while the praises which are showered upon them in their lives, and the prospect of the honours and worship which await them after death, serve as additional incentives to suicide.[34]

    But it was in South India that holy suicide seems to have been most endemic:

    In Malabar and the neighbouring regions, many sacrifice themselves to the idols. When they are sick or involved in misfortune, they vow themselves to the idol in case they are delivered. Then, when they have recovered, they fatten themselves for one or two years; and when another festival comes around, they cover themselves with flowers, crown themselves with white garlands, and go singing and playing before the idol, when it is carried through the land. There, after they have shown off a good deal, they take a sword with two handles, like those used in currying leather, put it to the back of their necks, and cutting strongly with both hands sever their heads from their bodies before the idol.[35]

    The atmaghataka, the suicidal Hindu, was a familiar sight of the premodern Indian landscape, where ‘religious suicides were highly recommended and in most cases glorified.’[36] Suicide often functioned as the culmination of a pilgrimage: ‘the enormous Tirtha literature (literature on pilgrimage) curiously enough describes in detail suicide by intending persons at different places of pilgrimage and the varying importance and virtues attached to them.’[37] Ibn Battuta and al-Biruni, among other Muslim visitors, had been particularly shocked by Hindu customs of sacred suicide, particularly bride-burning and self-drowning.[38] Altogether, in such a culture the development of suicidal methods as part of war is hardly surprising; they are deeply rooted in local non-monotheistic values.

    Today’s Tamil extremists extend this tradition in significant ways. Each Tamil Tiger wears a cyanide capsule around his neck, to be swallowed in case of capture. The explosive belt, used to assassinate hated politicians as well as Sinhalese marines and ordinary civilians, predates its Arab borrowing: the first Tamil suicide-martyrs in modern times appear in the 1970s.[39] The Tiger’s Hindu roots[40] thus nourish the current Palestinian practice; as one observer notes: ‘the Black Tigers, as the suicide cadres are known, have been emulated by the likes of Hamas.’[41]

    But there is also a strong Western precedent, in pagan antiquity, in early Judaism, and in Christianity.

    Suicide had been a respectable option for many ancients. Achilles chooses battle against the Trojans, knowing that the gods have promised that this will lead to his death. Ajax takes his own life, in the confidence that this will not affect his honour. Chrysippus, Zeno, and Socrates all opt for suicide rather than execution or dishonour. Marcus Aurelius praises it to the skies. It was only the neo-Platonists and late Platonists (who not coincidentally became the most congenial Hellenes for Islam) who systematically opposed it.[42]

    The Biblical text nowhere condemns suicide. (Judas is condemned for betrayal, not for taking his own life; although Augustine will claim otherwise.) On the contrary, it offers several examples of individuals who chose death.[43] Saul (the koranic Talut) falls on his own sword rather than be humiliated in Philistine captivity (I Samuel 31). Jonah (Yunus) asks the frightened mariners to cast him into the sea (Jonah 1.12), and begs ‘Take my life from me,’ (4.3) for ‘it is better for me to die than to live’ (4.8-9). Job (Ayyub) prays: ‘O that I might have my request, and that God would grant my desire; that it would please God to crush me’ (Job 6:8-13), and even ‘I loath my life’ (7:15). Later, during the Maccabean revolts, the hero Razis falls on his sword to avoid falling into the hands of the wicked (2 Maccabees 14:42, 45-6). A notion of vicarious atonement has developed, so that the militant’s suicide which enrages the enemy brings a blessing to the people (4 Maccabees 17:21-2). [44]

    The early rabbis typically accept self-immolation in situations of military desperation, to avoid humiliation and to impress the enemy. The deaths of Saul and Samson were regarded as exemplary.[45] And in 'the Jewish Middle Ages, enthusiasm for martyrdom (at least in Ashkenaz - northern Europe) became so great that it proved a positive danger to Jewish existence.’[46] Religious voices raised in support of 20th century Zionism could link this tradition to their own militancy.[47] Hence Avram Kook, the first Ashkenazy Chief Rabbi of mandate Palestine (in Walter Wurzburger’s words)

    permitted individuals to volunteer for suicide missions when carried out in the interest of the collective Jewish community. In other words, an act that would be illicit if performed to help individuals, would be legitimate if intended for the benefit of the community.[48]

    In the nascent Christian movement, Jesus came to be presented as a suicide, albeit one who knew that he would be resurrected. Some historians are convinced that Jesus, having armed his band with swords (Luke 22:36), formed part of the larger Zealot movement against Roman oppression,[49] while others adhere to the orthodox view that his deliberate death was to be a cosmic sacrifice for human sin; but in either case, the dominant voice in the New Testament presents him as going to Jerusalem in the awareness that this would bring about his certain death (see Mark 10:32-4). Hence the insistent courting of martyrdom by many early Christians praised by Tertullian (here in the words of a modern scholar):

    In 185 the proconsul of Asia, Arrius Antoninus, was approached by a group of Christians demanding to be executed. The proconsul obliged some of them and then sent the rest away, saying that if they wanted to kill themselves there was plenty of rope available or cliffs they could jump off.[50]

    And for Chrysostom, blasting the infidels, the Christians were better than the ancients, since Socrates had had little choice, while Christians volunteered for martyrdom. In fact, most orthodox Christian martyrs appear to have been volunteers, many of them appearing from nowhere to clamour for the death penalty, or emerging from the crowds to join the flames consuming one of their brethren. It was only with Augustine that this self-immolating behaviour came to an end, as involuntary martyrdom was established as the only acceptable Christian norm in the West.[51]

    Orthodoxy, however, remained closer to the primitive tradition. As Frazier records (of sixteenth to nineteenth-century Russia): ‘whole communities hailed with enthusiasm the gospel of death, and hastened to put its precepts into practice.’ Although at first the volunteers were dropped into doorless rooms in which they starved to death ‘for Christ’, fire became the most popular method.

    Priests, monks, and laymen scoured the villages and hamlets preaching salvation by the flames, some of them decked in the spoils of their victims; for the motives of the preachers were often of the basest sort. They did not spare even the children, but seduced them by promises of the gay clothes, the apples, the nuts, the honey they would enjoy in heaven. […] Men, women and children rushed into the flames. Sometimes hundreds, and even thousands, thus perished together.[52]

    Combining the practice of suicidal martyrdom-seeking with the pursuit of warfare, resulted, for Europeans as well as for Tamils, in what would today be called suicidal warfare. This had the advantage of generating tremendous publicity for the cause in worlds such as the Indic and the Greco-Roman which, like today’s, had a penchant for the bizarre.[53] And for this, the most spectacular precedent was in the Bible. Brian Wicker, a modern Catholic interpreter, remarks that ‘to us, Samson just appears like a cross between Beowulf and Batman,’[54] while Bernhard Anderson in his book The Living World of the Old Testament, neutralises the Samson story by viewing him as the object of divine punishment.[55] Yet he is presented by the narrator of Judges 13 to 16 as an unambiguous hero, and traditionally the churches regarded his self-destruction and his massacre of three thousand Philistine men, women, and children, as a valid act of martyrdom. Augustine and Aquinas both pose the question: why is self-murder not here a sin, and answer: because God had commanded him, and the normal ethical rule was thus suspended.[56]..


    He wrote tons of Quran  text(I mean headless/tailless text) in that articles about Suicidal Terrorism .. but he writes something I didn't know on Suicidal Terrorism  from other religions..

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Britain's most influential Muslim in apology for homophobia shocker
     Reply #107 - September 26, 2013, 04:38 AM

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AonmBMKCvVI

    Douglas Murray and Timothy Winter - Islamophobia

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Britain's most influential Muslim in apology for homophobia shocker
     Reply #108 - September 26, 2013, 09:28 AM

    Interesting that there is no mention of, and is he justifying suicide bombing because others do it?  Has he not read Durkheim? 

    Is Socrates suicide when he did it following the sentence of a court?  Is Achilles suicide?

    Quote
    The origins of the Assassins trace back to just before the First Crusade around 1080. There has been much difficulty finding out much information about the origins of the Assassins because most early sources are either written by enemies of the order or based on legends, or both. Most sources dealing with the order's inner working were destroyed with the capture of Alamut, the Assassins' headquarters, by the Mongols in 1256. However, it is possible to trace the beginnings of the cult back to its first Grandmaster, Hassan-i Sabbah.

    A passionate devotee of Isma'ili beliefs, Hassan-i Sabbah was well-liked throughout Cairo, Syria and most of the Middle East by other Isma'ili, which led to a number of people becoming his followers. Using his fame and popularity, Sabbah founded the Order of the Assassins. While his motives for founding this order are ultimately unknown, it was said to be all for his own political and personal gain and to also exact vengeance on his enemies. Because of the unrest in the Holy Land caused by the Crusades, Hassan-i Sabbah found himself not only fighting for power with other Muslims, but also with the invading Christian forces.[6]

    .
    After creating the Order, Sabbah searched for a location that would be fit for a sturdy headquarters and decided on the fortress at Alamut in what is now northwestern Iran. It is still disputed whether Sabbah built the fortress himself or if it was already built at the time of his arrival. In either case, Sabbah adapted the fortress to suit his needs of not only defense from hostile forces, but also indoctrination of his followers. After laying claim to the fortress at Alamut, Sabbah began expanding his influence outward to nearby towns and districts, using his agents to gain political favour and intimidate the local populations.

    Spending most of his days at Alamut working on religious works and doctrines for his Order, Sabbah was never to leave his fortress again in his lifetime. He had established a secret society of deadly assassins, which was built in a hierarchical format. Below Sabbah, the Grand Headmaster of the Order, were those known as "Greater Propagandists", followed by the normal "Propagandists", the Rafiqs ("Companions"), and the Lasiqs ("Adherents"). It was the Lasiqs who were trained to become some of the most feared assassins, or as they were called, "Fida'i" (self-sacrificing agent), in the known world.[7]
    It is, however, unknown how Hassan-i-Sabbah was able to get his "Fida'i" to perform with such fervent loyalty. One theory, possibly the best known but also the most criticized, comes from the reports of Marco Polo during his travels to the Orient.

    He recounts a story he heard, of the "Old Man of the Mountain" (Sabbah) who would drug his young followers with hashish, lead them to a "paradise", and then claim that only he had the means to allow for their return. Perceiving that Sabbah was either a prophet or magician, his disciples, believing that only he could return them to "paradise", were fully committed to his cause and willing to carry out his every request.[8] However, this story is disputed due to the fact that Sabbah died in 1124 and Sinan, who is frequently known as the "Old Man of the Mountain", died in 1192, whereas Marco Polo was not born until 1254.


    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assassins

    When you are a Bear of Very Little Brain, and you Think of Things, you find sometimes that a Thing which seemed very Thingish inside you is quite different when it gets out into the open and has other people looking at it.


    A.A. Milne,

    "We cannot slaughter each other out of the human impasse"
  • Britain's most influential Muslim in apology for homophobia shocker
     Reply #109 - September 26, 2013, 01:13 PM

    Interesting that there is no mention of, and is he justifying suicide bombing because others do it?  Has he not read Durkheim?  .......................

    I am sure that fellow reads quit a bit  but DOG TAIL doesn't change its shape unless it is genetically reprogrammed moi.  His mind set  is to defend Islam irrespective of what is there in it. He doesn't ask simple questions  like

    Is Islam universal for all times or was it just for that time in  7th century?  

    If it is universal? what is universal in it and how to filter it?  

    Could it live along with other faiths?  and could it stand the onslaught of modern science  as it is, with what  is there in Islamic scriptures  without reinventing/reinterpreting them when all other faith heads  are trying their best  to dilute their faiths?


    Such simple questions never come to the  stagnated brains such as his.  Anyways  here is another headless-tail less  Quran flat text from him .  "Faith in the future_Islam after the Enlightenment by Abdal-Hakim Murad".  And that  boring  flat text he read it in  Islamabad,  the land of pure ~12 years ago in 2002  when Jihad was at its height in Afghanistan . Let me put some nuggets from it here.,  read  total bull shit at the link.
    Quote
    Bismi’llahi’r-Rahmani’r-Rahim

    Your excellencies, ladies and gentlemen, may I express my warm gratitude to you all for paying me the compliment of attending today? It is particularly gratifying to me to attend an event in this country, the only state established in recent history specifically as a homeland for Muslims. It is also a privilege to be associated with the name of the late and revered Altaf Gauhar, whose translations from the Qur’an certainly formed, back in the late 1970s, part of my own personal journey towards Islam
    ................
    Quote
    . The first of these items is what we call universalism, that is to say, that Islam does not limit itself to the upliftment of any given section of humanity, but rather announces a desire to transform the entire human family. This is, if you like, its Ishmaelite uniqueness: the religions that spring from Isaac (a.s.), are, in our understanding, an extension of Hebrew and Occidental particularity, while Islam is universal. ....

    Quote
    In the hadith, we learn that ‘Every prophet was sent to his own people; but I am sent to all mankind’ (bu‘ithtu li’l-nasi kaffa). [1] This will demand the squaring of a circle - in fact of many circles - in a way that is characteristically Islamic. Despite its Arabian origins, Islam is to be not merely for the nations, but of the nations.   No pre-modern civilisation embraced more cultures than that of Islam - in fact, it was Muslims who invented globalisation. The many-coloured fabric of the traditional Umma is not merely part of the glory of the Blessed Prophet, of whom it is said: ‘Truly your adversary is the one cut off’. (108:3)

    ..
     ......................It also demonstrates the divine purpose that this Ishmaelite covenant is to bring a monotheism that uplifts, rather than devastates cultures.  Islam brought immense fertility to the Indian subcontinent, upgrading architecture, cuisine, music, and languages. Nothing could be more unfair than the Indian chauvinistic thesis, given its most articulate and insidious voice by V.S. Naipaul, that Islam is a travelling parochialism, an ‘Arab imperialism’.  .......

     It is NOT  Naipaul who said that in the first place YOU FOOL., it is actually  this man



    Anwar Shaikh.. read his works

    Quote
    ............. Mother India was never more fecund than when she welcomed the virility of Islam. Remember the words of Allama Iqbal:

    Behold and see! In Ind’s domain

    Thou shalt not find the like again,

    That, though a Brahman’s son I be,

    Tabriz and Rum stand wide to me. ...

    and I can assure you,  you know very little about Allama Iqbal and his struggle with Islam/Islamic texts.
    Quote
    Quote
    ..........As Muslims, of course, we believe that every culture, including the culture of modern consumer liberalism, stands accountable before the claims of revelation. There must, therefore, be a mode of behaviour that modernity can adopt that can be meaningfully termed Islamic, without entailing its transformation into a monochrome Arabness. This is a consequence of our universalist assumptions, but it is also an extension of our triumphalism, and our belief that the divine purposes can be read in history. Wa-kalimatu’Llahi hiya’l-‘ulya - God’s word is uppermost. (9:40) .........

    Quote
    .........A reformation, then, is a bad thing to ask us for, if you would like us to be more pliant. But there is an apparently more intelligible demand, which is that we must pass through an Enlightenment. Take, for instance, the late Dutch politician Pim Fortuyn. In his book Against the Islamisation of our Culture, he writes: ‘Christianity and Judaism have gone through the laundromat of humanism and enlightenment, but that is not the case with Islam.’  

    Fortuyn is not a marginal voice. His funeral at Rotterdam Cathedral, reverently covered by Dutch television, attracted a vast crowd of mourners. As his coffin passed down the city’s main street, the Coolsingel, so many flowers were thrown that the vehicle itself almost disappeared from sight, recalling, to many, the scenes attending the funeral of Princess Diana.....

    .
     .............. Fortuyn, a highly-educated and liberal Islamophobe, was convinced that Islam cannot square the circle. He would say that the past genius of Islam in adapting itself to cultures from Senegal to Sumatra cannot be extended into our era, because the rules of that game no longer apply. Success today demands membership of a global reality, which means signing up to the terms of its philosophy. The alternative is poverty, failure, and - just possibly - the B52s.

    How should Islam answer this charge? The answer is, of course, that ‘Islam’ can’t. The religion’s strength stems in large degree from its internal diversity. Different readings of the scriptures attract different species of humanity. There will be no unified Islamic voice answering Fortuyn’s interrogation. The more useful question is: who should answer the charge? What sort of Muslim is best equipped to speak for us, and to defeat his logic?

      That FOOL doesn't understand a simple fact that "ISLAM IS NOT DIVERSE but Muslims are diverse folk with  variety of cultural/social/philosophical backgrounds.

    Quote
    The great tragedy is that some of our brethren would agree with him. There are many Muslims who are happy to describe Islam as an ideology. One suspects that they have not troubled to look the term up, and locate its totalitarian and positivistic undercurrents. It is impossible to deny that certain formulations of Islam in the twentieth century resembled European ideologies, with their obsession with the latest certainties of science,  their regimented cellular structure, their utopianism, and their implicit but primary self-definition as advocates of communalism rather than of metaphysical responsibility.

    Nonsense.....

    How is that latest certainties of science makes folks that come from Muslim parents and have science background  make  them to advocate communalism?   do you even know the definition of communalism??
     
    Quote
    .......The second dangerous consequence of ‘Enlightenment’, as Muslims see it, is the replacement of religious autocracy and sacred kingship with either a totalitarian political order, or with a democratic liberal arrangement that has no fail-safe resistance to moving in a totalitarian direction. Take, for instance, the American Jewish philosopher Peter Ochs, for whom the Enlightenment did away with Jewish faith in God, while the Holocaust did away with Jewish faith in humanity. As he writes:

      And you blame advances in science and Liberal democracy for that??

    look at that,   the fool thinks liberal democratic society means it ends up in  Holocaust.  No you don't understand Islamic role in that  Holocaust you stupid..  here, read about this  rascal  "Grand Mufti"









    The "Grand Mufti"  of Jerusalem

    Quote
    They lost faith in a utopian humanism that promised: ‘Give up your superstitions! Abandon the ethnic and religious traditions that separate us one from the other! Subject all aspects of life to rational scrutiny and the disciplines of science! This is how we will be saved.’ It didn’t work. Not that science and rationality are unworthy; what failed was the effort to abstract these from their setting in the ethics and wisdoms of received tradition..................

    Wa’Llahu’l-Musta‘an.  

     well read a wall of text at that link from that   Irrational idiot in   Islamic scholar clothes from  London.   That is exactly how Islam  brainwashed fools from west  think about what happened to Jewish folks in that 2nd world war .

    Off course Mr.  Abdal-Hakim Murad aka Islamic wanker changed his stance on Islam many times  since 2002. And I am sure he will change more as he gets older..
     

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
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