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 Topic: Can anyone explain this please

 (Read 534 times)
  • 1« Previous thread | Next thread »
  • Can anyone explain this please
     OP - March 20, 2017, 03:56 PM

    I'm baffled tbh
  • Can anyone explain this please
     Reply #1 - March 20, 2017, 04:30 PM

    The quran repeats itself a lot. Therefore patterns can be found in the repetition of themes. This is alleged to be remarkable. It is not.
  • Can anyone explain this please
     Reply #2 - March 21, 2017, 07:35 AM

    I don't think repeating its self alot is an explanation of how that chapter is structured. To talk about the past and the future then have the word middle in the middle of the chapter. Anyone else have an explanation?
  • Can anyone explain this please
     Reply #3 - March 21, 2017, 08:33 AM

    If you look for patterns, you will find them, anywhere and everywhere.
  • Can anyone explain this please
     Reply #4 - March 21, 2017, 09:50 AM

    Why would it be a miracle or whatever just because you have a text that is structured or has pattern? All texts have patterns, and are structured, with a certain order to them. Even those who originated from an oral traditions, the Quran isn't unique in that aspect... -_-
  • Can anyone explain this please
     Reply #5 - March 21, 2017, 11:07 AM

  • Can anyone explain this please
     Reply #6 - March 21, 2017, 03:43 PM

    Are there any other texts from the time that people could point to that show the same sort of patterns?
  • Can anyone explain this please
     Reply #7 - March 21, 2017, 05:27 PM

    There is basically an infinite number of patterns which a person with religious or other motivation could read significance into. The number of possible 'hits' for some pattern or other is huge for a book of 80,000 words, and especially so for one so repetitive. It's not as if the miracle seekers decided beforehand that this type of pattern was particularly significant. They found the pattern. Any pattern would do, and then read significance into it. It would be more surprising if such patterns could not be found.

    Of course, when the word 'middle' is not in the middle of the chapter for example, they just literally ignore that, so there is no such thing as a miss. It's the same basic strategy as the bible code, and even the Moby Dick code.

    If for some reason people thought you were a prophet, and for hundreds of years people have been spending every waking hour analysing every letter and dot of your comments, all sorts of interesting patterns would be found. Interesting that is, to your followers. Totally mundane to everyone else.
  • Can anyone explain this please
     Reply #8 - March 21, 2017, 05:39 PM

    yes there is a lot it is called poems

    arabs where good at it

    You are educated when you have the ability to listen to almost anything without losing your temper or self-confidence.
     Robert Frost

    ?Believe those who are seeking the truth. Doubt those who find it.?

    ― Andr? Gide
  • Can anyone explain this please
     Reply #9 - March 21, 2017, 09:41 PM

    Does anyone know of any decent debates with Hamza Tzortzis, he comes across well when I watch his presentations? I'd love sam harris to debate him
  • Can anyone explain this please
     Reply #10 - March 21, 2017, 10:11 PM

    Depends what you mean by decent. If you mean where he made any good points, then no.
  • Can anyone explain this please
     Reply #11 - March 21, 2017, 10:30 PM

    No I actually meant someone proving him wrong. I watched the Lawrence kraus one, though he let him away with a lot.
  • Can anyone explain this please
     Reply #12 - March 21, 2017, 10:41 PM

    He copies his version of the kalam cosmological argument from William Lane Craig. So for a more robust presentation of Hamza's argument (from Craig himself), and an utter demolishing of it (from Sean Carroll), I would watch

    If you are more interested in the linguistic miracle stuff, I think it's just too bizarre and long winded an argument for most people to pay much attention to. Although I have done personally
    I think all his arguments are demonstrably terrible. Not that he is unique in that regard. The same applies to all the apologists.

  • Can anyone explain this please
     Reply #13 - Yesterday at 12:22 AM

    Thanks Dr Sloth.

    Another question, probably been mentioned somewhere else...was Muhammad not called the trustworthy? Why would he lie about revelation? Are there any theories on that? As you can probably tell I've been researching islam, was very close to converting, decided to do a little bit more research.
  • Can anyone explain this please
     Reply #14 - Yesterday at 02:01 AM

    In quranic prophetic typology (meaning the stereotypes that the Qur'an uses to describe prophets), all prophets are always described as 'trustworthy.'  This was not a personal description, it was just a generic theological description of prophets.  See, for example, Q 48:18, calling Moses a 'trustworthy messenger,' and Q 26, stating that all prophets are 'trustworthy.'

    As for lying about revelation, this is a misconception about what revelation is.  Revelation is simply the revealed truth, what the Lord has taught to man.  Muhammad, as related in the Qur'an, certainly believed that his recitations expressed the Lord's revealed truth.  Every prophet in the era claimed, and believed, the same.
  • Can anyone explain this please
     Reply #15 - Yesterday at 07:52 AM

    So did he have a mental illness? Was he smoking dmt?
  • Can anyone explain this please
     Reply #16 - Yesterday at 09:40 AM

    It depends on how you view Islam.  There is more than simply a literal interpretation and rejection of it. For example you could reject the claim of preserving it from Muhammad to codification. You could take the position that codification and edition were not perfect. You could reject various secondary source like ahadith and it's theological view points.
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