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 Topic: Did Muhammad live in poverty?

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  • Did Muhammad live in poverty?
     OP - October 23, 2016, 05:21 PM
    When I was a child we were taught stories, rather like fables of Muhammad's life and would relate it all to the teachings of Islam and what we can learn from them. The teacher told us a story once about how Umar went to visit Muhammad and wept when he saw the meagre conditions which God's messenger was living in. According to the story is pillow and mattress were made of straw and he had marks on his back from sleeping rough (from what I remember).

    After learning what I have learned about Muhammad and the way he used his status to get any woman he wanted, I'm not sure how true those stories were. Why wouldn't a man like that be living in luxury when he easily could? There is also a Bukhari hadith about how Aisha received a woman and her two daughters into her home and that the only food she had left were three dates, which she gave to the woman. Other hadiths depict Muhammad to be someone who would go for some days without food.

    How reliable and accurate is this information?
  • Did Muhammad live in poverty?
     Reply #1 - October 23, 2016, 05:41 PM
    I shouldn't think there's any real reason to think these stories are historically accurate. They sound like they may be influenced by Christian stories about Christian holy men. Mind you that's just a guess.
    Which side are you on?
  • Did Muhammad live in poverty?
     Reply #2 - October 23, 2016, 05:50 PM
    Paul Casanova thought that the tales of Muhammad living in poverty were the result of Qur'anic exegesis, from sura 93. It sang in the general sense "Did he not find thee an orphan and give shelter – And did he not find thee wandering and guide – And did He not find thee destitute and enrich".
  • Did Muhammad live in poverty?
     Reply #3 - October 23, 2016, 07:06 PM
    I see, wish I could travel back in time and see just how different Muhammad was to the man I was taught he was growing up. Spent two decades thinking that he was gentle, kind, wouldn't hurt a fly, hated materialism and loved the poor so much that he wanted to live like one of them, married widows and divorcees because their lives were hard and he wanted to be their saviour, and so forth.  Grin
  • Did Muhammad live in poverty?
     Reply #4 - October 23, 2016, 09:57 PM
    Quote from: AGirlWithDoubts on October 23, 2016, 07:06 PM
    Spent two decades thinking that he was gentle, kind, wouldn't hurt a fly, hated materialism and loved the poor so much that he wanted to live like one of them, married widows and divorcees because their lives were hard and he wanted to be their saviour, and so forth.  Grin

     vomit
    "Life is not a matter of holding good cards, but of playing a poor hand well."
    - Robert Louis Stevenson
  • Did Muhammad live in poverty?
     Reply #5 - October 24, 2016, 12:23 AM
    Yup, I was told the same stories about poverty. Maybe He blew khadeejas fortune on new recruits. Just guessing. We were also told about all his wives being elderly. I guess this is what happens when you are not allowed to question the Quran or Prophet Muhammad. Bless his cotton socks.
  • Did Muhammad live in poverty?
     Reply #6 - October 24, 2016, 12:35 AM
    The Hadith have messed up this religion big time.
  • Did Muhammad live in poverty?
     Reply #7 - October 24, 2016, 04:28 PM
    Quote from: babooshka on October 24, 2016, 12:23 AM
    Yup, I was told the same stories about poverty. Maybe He blew khadeejas fortune on new recruits. Just guessing. We were also told about all his wives being elderly. I guess this is what happens when you are not allowed to question the Quran or Prophet Muhammad. Bless his cotton socks.


    Lol probably. But where did all of that war booty that he was entitled to go? There's no point of I'm getting a certain percentage of it if he wasn't going to use it.

    Yup, almost none of those Hadiths can be trusted.
  • Did Muhammad live in poverty?
     Reply #8 - October 24, 2016, 10:55 PM
    Quote from: AGirlWithDoubts on October 24, 2016, 04:28 PM
    Lol probably. But where did all of that war booty that he was entitled to go? There's no point of I'm getting a certain percentage of it if he wasn't going to use it.


    I recently asked this question and I was told that the booty percentage that mo had was distributed amongst the poor and needy. I would imagine he did do this.
  • Did Muhammad live in poverty?
     Reply #9 - October 24, 2016, 11:34 PM
    He musta kept some money for himself. Wasn't there an issue of Fatima wanting her inheritance after his death.

  • Did Muhammad live in poverty?
     Reply #10 - October 25, 2016, 11:18 AM
    Quote from: babooshka on October 24, 2016, 10:55 PM
    I recently asked this question and I was told that the booty percentage that mo had was distributed amongst the poor and needy. I would imagine he did do this.

       Who is that   "he" ??  There was NO  such "HE" in Islam ., So  that point of  " looting people and giving it  to needy such as  Robin Hood " doesn't arise   
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • Did Muhammad live in poverty?
     Reply #11 - October 25, 2016, 01:53 PM
    Quote from: AGirlWithDoubts on October 23, 2016, 05:21 PM
    When I was a child we were taught stories, rather like fables of Muhammad's life and would relate it all to the teachings of Islam and what we can learn from them. The teacher told us a story once about how Umar went to visit Muhammad and wept when he saw the meagre conditions which God's messenger was living in. According to the story is pillow and mattress were made of straw and he had marks on his back from sleeping rough (from what I remember).

    After learning what I have learned about Muhammad and the way he used his status to get any woman he wanted, I'm not sure how true those stories were. Why wouldn't a man like that be living in luxury when he easily could? There is also a Bukhari hadith about how Aisha received a woman and her two daughters into her home and that the only food she had left were three dates, which she gave to the woman. Other hadiths depict Muhammad to be someone who would go for some days without food.

    How reliable and accurate is this information?


    There is a difference between being in poverty as a lack of wealth and living in poverty. If one's needs are all met by other than the individual then they are not living in poverty. Religious leaders typically have followers provide for them. Among the first followers of Islam were people of material wealth; Abu Bakr, Khadija, etc. I doubt he wanted for his needs. There is also a difference if one following poverty as a way of life, thus is a choice by them,  compared to a situation out of one's control. Why pity one's condition if it is a choice?

    What happened to Khadija's wealth? Honest question.
  • Did Muhammad live in poverty?
     Reply #12 - October 25, 2016, 02:05 PM
    Quote from: bogart on October 25, 2016, 01:53 PM
    ................; Abu Bakr, Khadija, etc...........

      Khadija's wealth?.............

    who are these two guys? I  never heard or read their names in Quran...  bogart..   Huh?  
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • Did Muhammad live in poverty?
     Reply #13 - October 25, 2016, 02:13 PM
    Quote from: yeezevee on October 25, 2016, 11:18 AM
      Who is that   "he" ??  There was NO  such "HE" in Islam ., So  that point of  " looting people and giving it  to needy such as   Robin Hood " doesn't arise    


    Yeezevee this thread is about stories we were told about mos poverty. What is the matter with you?

    A shrewd leader would give to the poor because it's often the poor people's sons that fight the battles.


  • Did Muhammad live in poverty?
     Reply #14 - October 25, 2016, 02:19 PM
    OP :
    Quote
    how Umar went to visit Muhammad and wept when he saw the meagre conditions which God's messenger was living in. According to the story is pillow and mattress were made of straw and he had marks on his back from sleeping rough


    Aren't there also hadith/s criticizing asceticism ?
  • Did Muhammad live in poverty?
     Reply #15 - October 25, 2016, 02:22 PM
    Quote from: babooshka on October 25, 2016, 02:13 PM
    Yeezevee this thread is about stories we were told .........

    Oh!   I see .,  Stories..Sorry  Huh?.,   I  apologize for intruding in to this folder  .,  I am not a good story teller unlike "AGWD"  ... A-GWD...    babooshka..  

    But next time  anyone mentions such names ., tell them they are not in Quran,  hence such stories  are nothing to do with Islam  
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • Did Muhammad live in poverty?
     Reply #16 - October 25, 2016, 02:35 PM
    It's ok no probs.
  • Did Muhammad live in poverty?
     Reply #17 - October 25, 2016, 02:57 PM
    There's a 3d replica of the prophets house on YouTube if anyone's interested. I can't work this iPad to post it.
  • Did Muhammad live in poverty?
     Reply #18 - November 05, 2016, 08:04 PM
    Quote from: bogart on October 25, 2016, 01:53 PM
    There is a difference between being in poverty as a lack of wealth and living in poverty. If one's needs are all met by other than the individual then they are not living in poverty. Religious leaders typically have followers provide for them. Among the first followers of Islam were people of material wealth; Abu Bakr, Khadija, etc. I doubt he wanted for his needs. There is also a difference if one following poverty as a way of life, thus is a choice by them,  compared to a situation out of one's control. Why pity one's condition if it is a choice?

    What happened to Khadija's wealth? Honest question.


    Wish I knew. I was taught that Muhammad and Khadija became poor after the Quraishi boycott for Banu Hashim. If the story about Umar is true, maybe he took pity on Muhammad because in his view the Messenger of God is deserving of so much better. I just don't see a man who used his position to have so many wives and concubines choosing to live in poverty and not have enough to eat though. Not unless it somehow benefited him; babooshka made a good point about how he probably gave to his followers to win their loyalty.
  • Did Muhammad live in poverty?
     Reply #19 - November 05, 2016, 08:29 PM
    Quote from: AGirlWithDoubts on November 05, 2016, 08:04 PM
    1.).   I was taught that Muhammad and Khadija became poor after the Quraishi boycott for Banu Hashim.

    2). If the story about Umar is true, maybe he took pity on Muhammad because in his view the Messenger of God is deserving of so much better.

    3).  have so many wives and concubines............


    this SINGLE  lady  wrote fantastic story series.,   The volume and weight of those books is bigger  than early Islamic history books that we have and were allegedly written 100s of years after that unknown Prophet Muhammad(PBUH) death .

    human brain has ingenious power to write stories and to tell stories

    Quote from: AGirlWithDoubts on November 05, 2016, 08:04 PM
    Wish I knew. ............

    Common AGWD or  GWAD..  it is all  about stories ..HISTORICAL UNREAL STORIES ..if you don't know make one up     Cheesy    here you go

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AW4eE2nyYG8


      see that guy .  ., well let me watch this

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zRbnD-G3uE4

     
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • Did Muhammad live in poverty?
     Reply #20 - November 06, 2016, 09:40 AM
    I like this story   that CEMB Zimriel posted  in this forum.. Some one need to do a  very serious scientific inquiry in to that subject .   There appears to be some truth in  that   Qurashi gene, L859
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • Re: Did Muhammad live in poverty?
     Reply #21 - November 13, 2016, 04:10 PM
    If there was a Muhammed and we loosely follow his story we can see he maried into wealth and became a successful trader. It's illogical to believe he lived in poverty at this stage. Later the Muslims were supposedly (according to the haddith) outcasts of Mekkah and we're supposed to believe at this stage Muhammed was living in poverty and starving? Yet shortly after this period the tribes of Medina ask this outcast living in poverty to mediate and rule over them. That sounds like the most unlikely story if we apply the historical realities to it. No group of tribes are going to request leadership and mediation from an outcast living in poverty, it'd never happen.

    If Muhammed was a real person he likely is native of Medina and the pre-Medina period likely to be pure fabrication. The Muhammed of early Mekkah seems more ethicaly than the later Muhammed. Maybe there was a soothsayer or Prophet Mohammed years before Medina Mohammed and there stories got rolled into one. Or maybe like all stories they were retold with creative licence. The verses from pre-Medinan period are said to be superior poetry. Perhaps merely plagerising superior poets?

    Quote from: AGirlWithDoubts on October 23, 2016, 07:06 PM
    I see, wish I could travel back in time and see just how different Muhammad was to the man I was taught he was growing up. Spent two decades thinking that he was gentle, kind, wouldn't hurt a fly, hated materialism and loved the poor so much that he wanted to live like one of them, married widows and divorcees because their lives were hard and he wanted to be their saviour, and so forth.  Grin


    All while executing rivals, condoning slavery, watching over massacres. Quite a contradictory character, almost like he is multiple folk heros rolled into one.

    Quote from: babooshka on October 24, 2016, 10:55 PM
    I recently asked this question and I was told that the booty percentage that mo had was distributed amongst the poor and needy. I would imagine he did do this.


    Takes over a whole nation, conquering and massacring tribe after tribe. Gives all his plunder to the poor. Sounds legit
  • Did Muhammad live in poverty?
     Reply #22 - November 13, 2016, 04:58 PM
    Quote from: RevertedRevert on November 13, 2016, 04:10 PM
    If there was a Muhammed and we loosely follow his story we can see he maried into wealth and became a successful trader. It's illogical to believe he lived in poverty at this stage. Later the Muslims were supposedly (according to the haddith) outcasts of Mekkah and we're supposed to believe at this stage Muhammed was living in poverty and starving? Yet shortly after this period the tribes of Medina ask this outcast living in poverty to mediate and rule over them. That sounds like the most unlikely story if we apply the historical realities to it. No group of tribes are going to request leadership and mediation from an outcast living in poverty, it'd never happen.

    Actually Near Eastern Christian society often did revolve around ascetics playing this kind of role. Peter Brown's The Rise and Function of the Holy Man in Late Antiquity is the classic study. It still doesn't fit very well with the idea of a religious leader who had married into wealth, but this expectation of what a holy man should be may well have helped inspire accounts of a Muhammad who lived in poverty. That's what a holy man was meant to be like in what was still a mainly Christian world.
    Quote
    If Muhammed was a real person he likely is native of Medina and the pre-Medina period likely to be pure fabrication. The Muhammed of early Mekkah seems more ethicaly than the later Muhammed. Maybe there was a soothsayer or Prophet Mohammed years before Medina Mohammed and there stories got rolled into one. Or maybe like all stories they were retold with creative licence. The verses from pre-Medinan period are said to be superior poetry. Perhaps merely plagerising superior poets?

    All while executing rivals, condoning slavery, watching over massacres. Quite a contradictory character, almost like he is multiple folk heros rolled into one.

    Takes over a whole nation, conquering and massacring tribe after tribe. Gives all his plunder to the poor. Sounds legit

    Somewhere in the background there's a real historical figure, but I expect most of the stories are just that, nothing more than stories.
    Which side are you on?
  • Did Muhammad live in poverty?
     Reply #23 - November 13, 2016, 10:08 PM
    [quote author=RevertedRevert link=topic=30533.msg862998#msg862998 date=1479053458
    Takes over a whole nation, conquering and massacring tribe after tribe. Gives all his plunder to the poor. Sounds legit
    [/quote]

    well I could be wrong but I don't think he took over the whole nation. that was done after his death.  with regards to giving money to the poor I've already stated that it could be to win over the poor (remember its the poor who fight in wars - even in this day and age). but that's if he did exist. I mean who knows. zeca has summed it up pretty well.

  • Did Muhammad live in poverty?
     Reply #24 - November 13, 2016, 10:09 PM
    urgh........my quotes never come out.
  • Did Muhammad live in poverty?
     Reply #25 - November 14, 2016, 05:13 PM
    Quote from: babooshka on November 13, 2016, 10:09 PM
    urgh........my quotes never come out.

      well  let me correct your quotes and let me correct your thoughts on "Muhammad"   Cheesy

    Quote
    Quote from: RevertedRevert on November 13, 2016, 04:10 PM
    ..............Takes over a whole nation, conquering and massacring tribe after tribe. Gives all his plunder to the poor. Sounds legit

    well I could be wrong but I don't think he took over the whole nation. that was done after his death.  with regards to giving money to the poor I've already stated that it could be to win over the poor (remember its the poor who fight in wars - even in this day and age). but that's if he did exist. I mean who knows. zeca has summed it up pretty well. 


    with the exception  of that first sentence., rest of the post is  irrelevant because like 1000s of Academics who explore early Islamic history   you too assume that there was guy called "Muhammad" ., That assumption has no proof and it is wrong .,  All the early history of Islam from QURAN/HADITH/SUNNAH  SUGGESTS  rascals wrote stories in the name of Muhammad for political and power usurping purposes
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • Did Muhammad live in poverty?
     Reply #26 - November 28, 2016, 11:24 PM
    well hello there yeezevee.  busy deleting texts again are we.
  • Did Muhammad live in poverty?
     Reply #27 - November 29, 2016, 02:07 PM
    If Muhammad wasn't real, then how could we have his tomb, and Janat Tul baqi graveyard.
    It's real deep shit.
    I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.
  • Did Muhammad live in poverty?
     Reply #28 - November 29, 2016, 02:10 PM
    I suspect that if we dig the graves, we would just find bones, not what muslims claim. Intact bodies.
    I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.
  • Did Muhammad live in poverty?
     Reply #29 - November 29, 2016, 02:22 PM
    Quote
    Quote from: abidali2018240 on November 29, 2016, 02:07 PM
    If Muhammad wasn't real, then how could we have his tomb, and Janat Tul baqi graveyard.
    It's real deep shit.


    Quote from: abidali2018240 on November 29, 2016, 02:07 PM
    If Muhammad wasn't real, then how could we have his tomb, and Janat Tul baqi graveyard.
    It's real deep shit.




     Sure if  some one digs it  they  will find plenty of  bones  at that  Janat Tul baqi., After all  it was      a graveyard(JEWISH GRAVEYARD)  a century  before the birth of Islam.,   That doesn't mean  the bones are from this Alleged Prophet of Islam   that was allegedly got those 114 chapters of Quran.,,   Quran saying /writing story Muhammads are different from Hadith story   Muhammads ..

    Islamic history is completely screw up  .    It is all harry potter game of early Caliphs and preachers under them
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
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