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 Topic: A woman's clothing is the problem

 (Read 13789 times)
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  • A woman's clothing is the problem
     Reply #30 - August 25, 2016, 07:11 PM
    Quote from: nbhb on August 25, 2016, 06:48 PM
    Yes I would love to see this image in KSA or Iran.

    What is to clarify Jedi? Why only women should cover their hair and men not? Why only women should dress modestly? Why so many women are forced to wear it? Why not men as well? You know hijab is not a tool for women's empowerment.

    Please be aware that I know this is not in the category of liberal thinking. But it seems so unfair to me.


    Me too...I would love to see this image in all over the world including the Kingdom of Slow Down Reindeer and the Republic of He Ran.

    Sure...there are men, women, children and transsexual and inter-sexual and uber-sexual that all dress modestly. But - it is not of your business really if the women do it out of free-will as protest or for spiritual reasons as many seem to do in the West...but you go further and say it should be banned. Banned. Banned. I understand if you want to propose alternatives in cases where there is no choice. f course - raise awareness via education and social activism.

    That is to say that you will enforce a law that any person - male or female - is not allowed to cover their hair.
    No free mixing of the sexes is permitted on these forums or via PM or the various chat groups that are operating.

    Women must write modestly and all men must lower their case.

    http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?425649-Have-some-Hayaa-%28modesty-shame%29-people!
  • A woman's clothing is the problem
     Reply #31 - August 25, 2016, 07:21 PM
    Nervana Mahmoud - The right not to wear a burkini

    https://nervana1.org/2016/08/21/the-right-not-to-wear-a-burkini/
    Which side are you on?
  • A woman's clothing is the problem
     Reply #32 - August 25, 2016, 07:34 PM
    I very much agree with you Jedi that this may well be an extreme and discriminatory measure. I dislike even agreeing with such a measure.

    I just don't see any liberal, democratic alternatives that could work as well. Where are they, why doesn't work? Why muslim men don't cover their hair as well? Don't you think this is so unfair to women?
  • A woman's clothing is the problem
     Reply #33 - August 25, 2016, 07:47 PM
    Quote from: zeca on August 25, 2016, 07:21 PM
    Nervana Mahmoud - The right not to wear a burkini

    https://nervana1.org/2016/08/21/the-right-not-to-wear-a-burkini/



    This  Afro
  • A woman's clothing is the problem
     Reply #34 - August 25, 2016, 07:50 PM
    She does, quite correctly, say this though:
    Quote
    All people, including non-burkini Muslim women, should have freedom of choice.

    Which side are you on?
  • A woman's clothing is the problem
     Reply #35 - August 25, 2016, 08:17 PM
    Of course...the burkini reinforces the narrative that a woman's body is something to be ashamed of, that the flesh is something that ghair-mahram must not see; that the woman is the property of man and that a woman has no agency and must adhere to patriarchal interpretations of the KORAN. This has done nothing but to reduce some women to tears, create anxiety issues and lower self-esteem among girls hitting puberty who were once allowed to bear their arms and  legs but must now feel guilty for doing so.  I understand both sides of the debate...and unfortunately for some liberal Muslims or even ex-'Muslims' this is a reminder of the corrosive impact that 'religion' can have in establishing norms and values and taboos.

    But...that is no reason to ban it...the best thing to do is to educate the people involved. Educate not by pretending to be Muslim and saying that there is a liberal interpretation. No. Educate by being honest and saying....'this is rather quite silly isn't it?' 'Who made these rules?' 'What context was the KORAN originated from?' 'Is GOD the know-it-all it wants to be?'

    Question - but never ban...
    No free mixing of the sexes is permitted on these forums or via PM or the various chat groups that are operating.

    Women must write modestly and all men must lower their case.

    http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?425649-Have-some-Hayaa-%28modesty-shame%29-people!
  • A woman's clothing is the problem
     Reply #36 - August 26, 2016, 12:55 AM
    I learned how to swim a few days ago at the age of 27. It's fucking wonderful. And although I'm a man, and in no way have been restricted in my life nearly as much as my sister, I do think that the role of modesty in Islam as preached by my family has been a big reason for such a late start.

    Honestly, I think if more of these kinds of experiences can be opened up to women, especially in public places where the conversation about "strange" dress will naturally arise, the better. I think the only thing that banning burkinis is likely to do is cause less of women to have these experiences, and ultimately further close off and entrench that mindset.
    Quote from: yeezevee on February 11, 2016, 02:05 PM
    how fuck works without shit??


    Let's Play Chess!

    harakaat, friend, RIP
  • A woman's clothing is the problem
     Reply #37 - August 26, 2016, 09:56 AM
    Some issues I have wondered about swimming costumes.  Men can wear long shorts for swimming and that is fine.  Also they can wear t-shirts for sun protection.  However the standard women's bathing costume is a garment that is more like underpants and less than a sleeveless shirt.  I would to cover my female ass when I go to the beach or pool because really who needs to see it?  Or maybe I just want to cover up from the sun.  I hate sunscreen.  When I wear either the male version of bathing costume (long shorts and a t-shirt) or a a costume I have sewn from lycra fabric which is leggings (ankle length or calf length) and a t-shirt or minidress or even a short skirt over a less than tank top bathing suit,  I get some comments from other people.  I only wear these garments for swimming and launder then regularly.  I also wear a "bathing cap" since my long hair is a hazard.  Such comments are why do I think that other women should wear burkinis or why am I ashamed of my body or think men are looking at me.  Usually there are more attractive women around that men would look at other than me.  Maybe I was too lazy to shave.  Yes, sometimes I am ashamed of my body and I need to lose weight. 

    I do have a problem with women swimming in clothing that would cause them to drown, in fabrics that were never meant for swimwear, in street clothing because it is not sanitary.   Also bathing areas that are restricted or closed off for muslims only.  I can agree that nude bathing and beach areas have post up signs marking the area.  The biggest issues around more clothing for public bathing seems to be excessive dripping of water on the floor around the pool,  loose clothing or long hair getting sucked into drains, excessive drag on high water slides. 

    I hate when women are forced to wear excessive clothing while bathing or swimming.  I just do not like some of the comments I get about my bathing costume.
    The unreligion, only one calorie
  • A woman's clothing is the problem
     Reply #38 - August 26, 2016, 12:39 PM
    Quote from: Jedi on August 25, 2016, 08:17 PM
    But...that is no reason to ban it...the best thing to do is to educate the people involved. Educate not by pretending to be Muslim and saying that there is a liberal interpretation. No. Educate by being honest and saying....'this is rather quite silly isn't it?' 'Who made these rules?' 'What context was the KORAN originated from?' 'Is GOD the know-it-all it wants to be?'


    You mean to educate muslims as to become Ex-muslims?  Smiley I do agree with you that it should be an honest approach regarding Islam.

    Quote from: Jedi on August 25, 2016, 08:17 PM
    Question - but never ban...


    Give me liberal, democratic alternatives that in practice could work and will gladly sign for them. The problem here seems to be that Islam has many extreme bad ideas and sometimes with this kind of things you can deal only with other extreme, no liberal ideas. Banning of burkinis is exactly this.
  • A woman's clothing is the problem
     Reply #39 - August 26, 2016, 01:21 PM
    Quote from: asbie on August 26, 2016, 12:55 AM
    I learned how to swim a few days ago at the age of 27. It's fucking wonderful. And although I'm a man, and in no way have been restricted in my life nearly as much as my sister, I do think that the role of modesty in Islam as preached by my family has been a big reason for such a late start.



    I'm glad to hear it!   Smiley   It's never too late to learn something
  • A woman's clothing is the problem
     Reply #40 - August 26, 2016, 01:22 PM
    Quote from: nbhb on August 26, 2016, 12:39 PM
    You mean to educate muslims as to become Ex-muslims?  Smiley

    No that is a not a necessary  neither it should be a condition for those who were never Muslims or never related Muslims and never lived in a  Muslim family  or for ex-Muslims..zebras and to those who are faithful   jingoists with some stupid oooold faith in their heads  
    Quote
     I do agree with you that it should be an honest approach regarding Islam.  

    that is where I too agree with you nbhb., and the honest approach to Islam is educating educated Muslims and non Muslim folks  and the governments  on the origins of Islam and nature of Islam how it changed and changing with times    
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • A woman's clothing is the problem
     Reply #41 - August 26, 2016, 01:27 PM
    I am not interested in Islam and you but asbie   what the hell is this
    Quote from: asbie on August 26, 2016, 12:55 AM
    I learned how to swim a few days ago at the age of 27. It's fucking wonderful.
    And although I'm a man, and in no way have been restricted in my life nearly as much as my sister, I do think that the role of modesty in Islam as preached by my family has been a big reason for such a late start.

    Honestly, I think if more of these kinds of experiences can be opened up to women, especially in public places where the conversation about "strange" dress will naturally arise, the better. I think the only thing that banning burkinis is likely to do is cause less of women to have these experiences, and ultimately further close off and entrench that mindset.

    I don't even know/remember when I really learned swimming.,   that is probably around I was 2.7  year old

    you city dwellers miss a lot.,  My grand father threw me in to a running water canal (around 5 feet deep)  and my grand mom used to catch me down stream..  I was the mini king of the Jungle ...I mean  home ...at that time
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • A woman's clothing is the problem
     Reply #42 - August 26, 2016, 01:41 PM
    So the burkini may no longer be banned:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-37198479

    Quote
    France's highest administrative court has suspended a ban on full-body "burkini" swimsuits that was imposed in the town of Villeneuve-Loubet.

    It said the ban "seriously and clearly illegally breached fundamental freedoms to come and go, freedom of beliefs and individual freedom".
    The ruling could set a precedent for up to 30 other towns that have imposed the ban.

    The court will make a final decision on the legality of the bans later.
    A lawyer outside court said that people who had been fined could claim their money back.

    A human rights group and an anti-Islamophobia organisation brought the ban in Villeneuve-Loubet to the court's attention.

    The so-called burkini ban has ignited fierce debate in France and worldwide.
    Opinions polls suggested most French people backed the bans, which town mayors said were protecting public order and secularism.
    Muslims said they were being targeted unfairly.

    No free mixing of the sexes is permitted on these forums or via PM or the various chat groups that are operating.

    Women must write modestly and all men must lower their case.

    http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?425649-Have-some-Hayaa-%28modesty-shame%29-people!
  • A woman's clothing is the problem
     Reply #43 - August 26, 2016, 02:56 PM
    good!
  • A woman's clothing is the problem
     Reply #44 - August 26, 2016, 05:51 PM
    Quote from: Jedi on August 26, 2016, 01:41 PM
    So the burkini may no longer be banned:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-37198479



    Great to hear this. I can understand a ban on niqab/burqa but this was just unnecessary. It just exacerbates the already tense relation with the muslim population.
  • A woman's clothing is the problem
     Reply #45 - August 26, 2016, 05:52 PM
    Nara Takbir!

    ALLAHUAKBARRRR!!!
    No free mixing of the sexes is permitted on these forums or via PM or the various chat groups that are operating.

    Women must write modestly and all men must lower their case.

    http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?425649-Have-some-Hayaa-%28modesty-shame%29-people!
  • A woman's clothing is the problem
     Reply #46 - August 26, 2016, 07:13 PM
    Quote
    What if I told you that you can condemn bans on the hijab while still acknowledging the very real and urgent mechanisms of coercion underlying it? FANCY THAT.

    In this piece I present a two-part thesis:

    I, a woman who was coerced into hijab from prepubescent childhood, for 15 years, wholly and unequivocally condemn the French burkini ban as oppressive and borderline fascist.

    I am also disturbed and disheartened by the form that rhetoric condemning the burkini ban is taking in liberal media. It is narrow-sighted, dangerous, and strikes me as especially dissonant.

    Prepare for some Big Thoughts. (Y’all know the hijab is kind of my obsessive subject, right?)
    ....

    Read on: http://www.theexmuslim.com/2016/08/24/burkini-bikini-false-equivalence-disproportionate-outrage/

    Some discussion here: https://www.urban75.net/forums/threads/state-sanctioned-sexual-assault.346825/page-23#post-14673021
    Which side are you on?
  • A woman's clothing is the problem
     Reply #47 - August 26, 2016, 07:34 PM


    what is wrong with what she wearing  for swimming  in ocean?  and there  is wrong with french idiots who make rules to fine/ jail/harass women folks with that swim suit., Her face is open to see and you can check where she is from ...why   force women folks out of that dress on a beach  in public??  what terror threat she is posing?

    these idiots ..the mayors of the of those towns who made that rule.,  DO THEY WANT SEE HER BREAST  ??  or they don't want see such folks  in France and  on their fucking beech ??  

    WERE THEY HAPPY WHEN THEY RULED ALGERIA AND OTHER FRENCH COLONIES WITH THE WOMEN DRESS CODE?













    I LOVE CARTOONS THAT INSULTS IDIOTS
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • A woman's clothing is the problem
     Reply #48 - August 26, 2016, 07:58 PM
    Quote
    And frankly, if you have been very concerned with championing the rights of Muslim women in France but do not also talk about the rights of Muslim women regarding modesty doctrine, FGM, honor crime, arranged marriages, etc etc, then you do no service to women from Muslim backgrounds.

    If you care about the hijabi who is publicly attacked or restricted for her hijab in the West but not about the hijabi in the West who is beaten by her father who caught her texting a boy in her class, then you do no service to women from Muslim backgrounds.

    Your anti-racism fails in its purpose, and I and women like me are hard put to forgive you for the collateral damage, invisible to you perhaps, but falling heavy on our shoulders, the shoulders of the most silenced and marginalized in the Muslim world.


    Quote from: zeca on August 26, 2016, 07:13 PM
    Read on: http://www.theexmuslim.com/2016/08/24/burkini-bikini-false-equivalence-disproportionate-outrage/

    Some discussion here: https://www.urban75.net/forums/threads/state-sanctioned-sexual-assault.346825/page-23#post-14673021

  • A woman's clothing is the problem
     Reply #49 - August 26, 2016, 08:11 PM
    Quote from: yeezevee on August 26, 2016, 01:27 PM
    I am not interested in Islam and you but asbie   what the hell is this I don't even know/remember when I really learned swimming.,   that is probably around I was 2.7  year old

    you city dwellers miss a lot.,  My grand father threw me in to a running water canal (around 5 feet deep)  and my grand mom used to catch me down stream..  I was the mini king of the Jungle ...I mean  home ...at that time


    Not everyone is as lucky as you yeezevee.
    Quote from: yeezevee on February 11, 2016, 02:05 PM
    how fuck works without shit??


    Let's Play Chess!

    harakaat, friend, RIP
  • A woman's clothing is the problem
     Reply #50 - August 26, 2016, 09:39 PM
    Quote from: asbie on August 26, 2016, 08:11 PM
    Not everyone is as lucky as you yeezevee.

    well i don't  know what luck means  dear asbie ., I used to search for it   but no more ...   it is me me alone ....



    that picture in that profile says something about that luck dear asbie ., In that sense  yes  I  am the luckiest guy ever born on this earth..  .. this lucky cat has many lives ..  so far  Cheesy Cheesy   yes very lucky
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • A woman's clothing is the problem
     Reply #51 - August 27, 2016, 11:34 AM
    I witnessed at a water park a woman wearing a full body suit and headcovering so she could play with her children in the water area, several yong muslim men came up to her and told her that they had an issue with her bathing attire.  So really it does not matter what a muslim women wears to some muslim men because the very fact she is out in public is a problem to them.  Most of the other people there did not care what she was wearing since it was clothing designed for swimming.

    I do have a problem with women wearing their salwar kamez in the water park pools because they are wearing their street clothing and breaking the rules. 
    The unreligion, only one calorie
  • A woman's clothing is the problem
     Reply #52 - August 27, 2016, 03:09 PM
    The bigger problem than breaking the rules is that salwar kameez isn't designed for swimming in. I could only imagine it wouldn't be comfortable when wet.
    Quote from: yeezevee on February 11, 2016, 02:05 PM
    how fuck works without shit??


    Let's Play Chess!

    harakaat, friend, RIP
  • A woman's clothing is the problem
     Reply #53 - August 27, 2016, 03:41 PM
    Who in their right mind would want to swim in a saree or abaya?

  • A woman's clothing is the problem
     Reply #54 - August 27, 2016, 03:58 PM
    Quote from: INcePtion on August 27, 2016, 03:41 PM
    Who in their right mind  would want to swim  in a saree or abaya?

     people with wrong mind , no brain and no common sense
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • A woman's clothing is the problem
     Reply #55 - August 27, 2016, 04:10 PM
    Incy, maybe not swim in an abaya, but how about 
    Quote
    Surfing in an abaya? It's a swell idea for Dubai


    http://www.thenational.ae/news/uae-news/surfing-in-an-abaya-its-a-swell-idea-for-dubai

    A strong gust and they may go surf sailing  dance
     
  • A woman's clothing is the problem
     Reply #56 - August 27, 2016, 04:47 PM
    Quote
    It is really good to do whatever you like and to still have pride in how you dress and your culture," Mrs Ahmad said. "The traditional dress is critical for us. We want to tell people it's fine to wear what you want and not to be held back."


    Not sure how the currents are going to hold back.
  • A woman's clothing is the problem
     Reply #57 - August 27, 2016, 05:55 PM
    Quote from: INcePtion on August 27, 2016, 03:41 PM
    Who in their right mind would want to swim in a saree or abaya?




    Many women who for so long have been made to feel guilty about showing their body to ghair mahram and  made to feel ashamed of their femininity. The problem is with bullshit religion which sanctifies and legitimizes cultural patriarchal practices.
    No free mixing of the sexes is permitted on these forums or via PM or the various chat groups that are operating.

    Women must write modestly and all men must lower their case.

    http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?425649-Have-some-Hayaa-%28modesty-shame%29-people!
  • Re: A woman's clothing is the problem
     Reply #58 - August 27, 2016, 06:03 PM
    Quote from: INcePtion on August 27, 2016, 04:47 PM
    Not sure how the currents are going to hold back.


    I think they are in a beginner's section of the beach,  By the time they get to the stage of thinking about currents, let's hope they graduate to a burkini  Wink
  • A woman's clothing is the problem
     Reply #59 - August 27, 2016, 06:45 PM
    The real question is, are they wearing life vests?
    Quote from: yeezevee on February 11, 2016, 02:05 PM
    how fuck works without shit??


    Let's Play Chess!

    harakaat, friend, RIP
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