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 Topic: Maajid Nawaz vs Talib Kweli

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  • Maajid Nawaz vs Talib Kweli
     Reply #60 - August 24, 2016, 03:26 PM
    Quote from: Cato on August 24, 2016, 03:10 PM
    .............The only common denominator is that we reject God and Islam, that's just where it stops. Nothing further

    we also reject   social, political, economical and family rules that are forced by faith heads on the society because of  some book written by cave dwellers some 1000 years ago said so
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • Maajid Nawaz vs Talib Kweli
     Reply #61 - August 24, 2016, 03:38 PM
    Quote from: yeezevee on August 24, 2016, 03:26 PM
    we also reject   social, political, economical and family rules that are forced by faith heads on the society because of  some book written by cave dwellers some 1000 years ago said so


    This is where we differ, Yeez. You and others of your ilk are more fixated on the Religious thingy, Im not. 'I'm more concern about the dangers of capitalism,imperialism or any form of structure or ideology that forces authority and hierarchy on our society than this. This world is beyond just religion vs secularism , anyone that is still on that basic shit has lost me. With or without religion, people will still find a reason to commit violence,discriminate and oppress the weak ones. Fixating on Islam like its the most evil force in this world is not going to make  any significant changes in this world if you ask me rather its becoming ad nauseam and counterproductive










    edit; just read the whole gist of Talib Kweli twitter spat with Nawaz.  Talib Kweli is my hero and No, he is not a muslim, he is an Atheist!  .Some  Atheists including myself do criticize Sam Harris,Richard Dawkins and Maajid Nawaz, nothing new, deal with it guys.
    "I'm standing here like an asshole holding my Charles Dickens"

    "No theory,No ready made system,no book that has ever been written to save the world. i cleave to no system.."-Bakunin
  • Maajid Nawaz vs Talib Kweli
     Reply #62 - August 24, 2016, 05:03 PM
    Quote from: Cato on August 24, 2016, 03:10 PM
    This,I have to come to accept the fact that within ex-muslim circle, that they are going to be right,centre and left,Conservative,Liberal and Libertarian or whatever. The only common denominator is that we reject God and Islam, that's just where it stops. Nothing further


    Well of course, just because you become ex-Muslim does not mean you become ex-Human.   

    In your reply are you insinuating that Maajid Nawaaz is right-wing?

    No free mixing of the sexes is permitted on these forums or via PM or the various chat groups that are operating.

    Women must write modestly and all men must lower their case.

    http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?425649-Have-some-Hayaa-%28modesty-shame%29-people!
  • Maajid Nawaz vs Talib Kweli
     Reply #63 - August 24, 2016, 05:04 PM
    Quote from: Cato on August 24, 2016, 03:38 PM
    'I'm more concern about the dangers of capitalism,imperialism or any form of structure or ideology that forces authority and hierarchy on our society than this. This world is beyond just religion vs secularism , anyone that is still on that basic shit has lost me. With or without religion, people will still find a reason to commit violence,discriminate and oppress the weak ones. Fixating on Islam like its the most evil force in this world is not going to make  any significant changes in this world if you ask me rather its becoming ad nauseam and counterproductive


     yes

    I agree with this. There are certainly elements codified in traditional Islam that are indeed problematic, and we are right to call them out. When you consider trends globally and historically, however, the recurring theme of oppression and exploitation is by no means unique to Islam and will not be weeded out with the disappearance of religion.

    Indeed, I think there are elements that have been incorporated into “religion” that are still useful and universal.
  • Maajid Nawaz vs Talib Kweli
     Reply #64 - August 24, 2016, 05:17 PM
    I don't think I've ever heard or read any long-time members, least of all Yeez, state or even suggest that religion is the sole cause of oppression and suffering. Religion is, has been and will be either the instigator or legitimating factor in causing strife in almost all spheres of life (particularly MED's/LED's) and this is particularly disturbing considering that in ISLAM the sovereignty of Allah, the immutability of the KORAN and the perfection of MUHAMMAD are sacrosanct with the majority of Muslims which includes layperson and policy maker. These feed into social more, norms, values and taboos that are crystallized into law and leads to the imprisonment of people and worse. There are stories abound of this in the 21st C. The elephant in the room.

    The 'universal' values etc do use the language of religion at times, but this is somewhat diminished as we become civilized and as cultures and people people become more civilized.  Gasp! at the empirical overtones of such a notion.  mysmilie_977

    Anyway, I'm still wondering why and how the thread has taken a turn towards nuclear foreign policy when poor Mr Harris is not a foreign minister/policy maker etc. What happened to Abu Talib v. Mr Majid? Where is the evidence of white supremacy or right-winger Nawaz? And has Abu Talib apologized for his display of idiocy?
    No free mixing of the sexes is permitted on these forums or via PM or the various chat groups that are operating.

    Women must write modestly and all men must lower their case.

    http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?425649-Have-some-Hayaa-%28modesty-shame%29-people!
  • Maajid Nawaz vs Talib Kweli
     Reply #65 - August 24, 2016, 05:21 PM
    Quote from: Jedi on August 24, 2016, 05:03 PM
    Well of course, just because you become ex-Muslim does not mean you become ex-Human.   

    In your reply are you insinuating that Maajid Nawaaz is right-wing?




    Yawn, I cant be bothered to take your bait Professor Jedi aka "A Level Political Science Teacher". So kindly fuck off as i got productive things to do than engage in back and forth exchange with some loser being a keyboard bully on forum. Good day  Smiley
    "I'm standing here like an asshole holding my Charles Dickens"

    "No theory,No ready made system,no book that has ever been written to save the world. i cleave to no system.."-Bakunin
  • Maajid Nawaz vs Talib Kweli
     Reply #66 - August 24, 2016, 05:33 PM
    Cato, brother, I beg you to cut back on the personal attacks on the forum. As much as we may agree or disagree, let’s try our best to keep the debate civil. Let’s try to make this place a community.

    Jedi, I don’t disagree with what you said, either. My point is that the problem is bigger than just religion. Islam certainly has been used as a manifestation of the problem throughout history, time and time again. It has certainly been a means of oppression and exploitation, but it has also been used as a source of strength, unity, identity, values, etc. It’s a means to a number of ends. It facilitates a lot of different outcomes.

    *edited addition*

    Quote
    considering that in ISLAM the sovereignty of Allah, the immutability of the KORAN and the perfection of MUHAMMAD are sacrosanct with the majority of Muslims which includes layperson and policy maker.


    While I agree with you that this is what a majority of Muslims believe today, scrutiny and study is, I believe, helping to prove that what was codified as Islam in the 8th and 9th centuries is not always what has always been considered Islam from the inception of the teachings. A side topic, I know, but it contibutes to why I think it's important to note that Islam has not always been one thing, and does not always have to be one thing.

    Anyway, I wouldn’t accuse yez in particular of only focusing on Islam, but it is an easy thing to do. It’s easy to miss the forest from the tree.
  • Maajid Nawaz vs Talib Kweli
     Reply #67 - August 24, 2016, 05:57 PM
    Quote from: ibn Bilal on August 24, 2016, 05:33 PM
    Cato, brother, I beg you to cut back on the personal attacks on the forum. As much as we may agree or disagree, let’s try our best to keep the debate civil. Let’s try to make this place a community.


    You are right, bro, my bad although it's hard not to dismiss someone who has a history of arguing in bad faith especially when you know the discussion won't led to anywhere but animosity and snarkiness. I usually dont respond kindly to people that do that but I will choose to ignore from now on
    "I'm standing here like an asshole holding my Charles Dickens"

    "No theory,No ready made system,no book that has ever been written to save the world. i cleave to no system.."-Bakunin
  • Maajid Nawaz vs Talib Kweli
     Reply #68 - August 24, 2016, 06:19 PM
    Quote from: Cato on August 24, 2016, 03:38 PM
    Fixating on Islam like its the most evil force in this world is not going to make  any significant changes in this world if you ask me rather its becoming ad nauseam and counterproductive


    While fixating on anything tends to be unhealthy, I tend to disagree with the sentiment. As long as many of us are closeted, or still have presence in "Islamic" spaces, family, and other contexts there is still a lot that challenging Islamic norms can do to improve human well-being. Sure, it's not always the biggest issue, but us ex-Muslims are in the best position and have the best opportunity to tackle THIS particular issue out of all the ones in the world. Maybe sometimes some of us can go overboard, but no I don't think it's counterproductive.
    Quote from: yeezevee on February 11, 2016, 02:05 PM
    how fuck works without shit??


    Let's Play Chess!

    harakaat, friend, RIP
  • Maajid Nawaz vs Talib Kweli
     Reply #69 - August 24, 2016, 07:23 PM
    Quote from: asbie on August 24, 2016, 06:19 PM
    While fixating on anything tends to be unhealthy, I tend to disagree with the sentiment. As long as many of us are closeted, or still have presence in "Islamic" spaces, family, and other contexts there is still a lot that challenging Islamic norms can do to improve human well-being. Sure, it's not always the biggest issue, but us ex-Muslims are in the best position and have the best opportunity to tackle THIS particular issue out of all the ones in the world. Maybe sometimes some of us can go overboard, but no I don't think it's counterproductive.


    Just to clarify further, I dont dispute that if one was to challenge the norms that represses their freedom as Islam is used as a means to control and oppress but considering how religions can act as dual nature i.e a political tool used by authority or those in power  and that it can be also be used by masses or commoners to fight against injustice and empower communities, That could pose a problem to those that see nothing good in religion but evil hence why i said it's counterproductive. If religions were simply a tool for the powerful, they would have been rejected long time ago but it isnt.
    "I'm standing here like an asshole holding my Charles Dickens"

    "No theory,No ready made system,no book that has ever been written to save the world. i cleave to no system.."-Bakunin
  • Maajid Nawaz vs Talib Kweli
     Reply #70 - August 24, 2016, 07:27 PM
    Quote from: Cato on August 24, 2016, 03:38 PM
    This is where we differ, Yeez............

    it is  all good., there is absolutely nothing wrong  with  questioning me and what i write Cato..

    Quote
    edit; just read the whole gist of Talib Kweli twitter spat with Nawaz.  Talib Kweli is my hero and No, he is not a muslim, he is an Atheist!  

    forget that  twitter  for a second., can you give  me a link or two on   Talib Kweli   articles/posts  dear Cato..
    Quote
    Some  Atheists including myself do criticize Sam Harris,Richard Dawkins and Maajid Nawaz, nothing new, deal with it guys.

    Again I must have written 100 times in this forum..Question every one and Question every thing ..  but.. but give me the works/links of Talib Kweli ..
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • Maajid Nawaz vs Talib Kweli
     Reply #71 - August 24, 2016, 07:29 PM
    Quote from: Cato on August 24, 2016, 07:23 PM
    Just to clarify further, I dont dispute that if one was to challenge the norms that represses their freedom as Islam is used as a means to control and oppress but considering how religions can act as dual nature i.e a political tool used by authority or those in power  and that it can be also be used by masses or commoners to fight against injustice and empower communities, That could pose a problem to those that see nothing good in religion but evil hence why i said it's counterproductive. If religions were simply a tool for the powerful, they would have been rejected long time ago but it isnt.



    Well I don't see anyone on the forum protesting community focused Islamic charities and volunteer groups or something.

    The problem is when Muslims are being de-humanized and attacked just for the sake of it. Things like burkini come to mind, although there are plenty of examples in recent times with the current political climate.
    Quote from: yeezevee on February 11, 2016, 02:05 PM
    how fuck works without shit??


    Let's Play Chess!

    harakaat, friend, RIP
  • Maajid Nawaz vs Talib Kweli
     Reply #72 - August 24, 2016, 07:31 PM
    Quote from: Cato on August 24, 2016, 07:23 PM
    .......If religions were simply a tool for the powerful, they would have been rejected long time ago but it isnt...

       by who??  
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • Maajid Nawaz vs Talib Kweli
     Reply #73 - August 24, 2016, 07:41 PM
    Quote from: asbie on August 24, 2016, 07:29 PM
    Well I don't see anyone on the forum protesting community focused Islamic charities and volunteer groups or something.


    I'm only speaking from my experiences in general not just exclusively CEMB forum so maybe i could be wrong to think so

    Quote
    The problem is when Muslims are being de-humanized and attacked just for the sake of it. Things like burkini come to mind, although there are plenty of examples in recent times with the current political climate.


    True, that has been my main problem with folks that do that and go ahead to conflate things up

    "I'm standing here like an asshole holding my Charles Dickens"

    "No theory,No ready made system,no book that has ever been written to save the world. i cleave to no system.."-Bakunin
  • Maajid Nawaz vs Talib Kweli
     Reply #74 - August 25, 2016, 12:19 AM
    Quote from: Absurdist on August 20, 2016, 10:44 PM
    And that effectively reduces the value of people living in the region. He reduces them to collateral damage (mentioned in the article). Which means he believes the value of life of the potential victims of an ISIS nuclear attack is higher than that of the potential victims of an American nuclear attack.

    I don't think he's a white supremacist, but I can see where the accusation comes from.

    Very well said.
  • Maajid Nawaz vs Talib Kweli
     Reply #75 - August 25, 2016, 09:56 AM
    Quote from: Cato on August 24, 2016, 05:57 PM
    You are right, bro, my bad although it's hard not to dismiss someone who has a history of arguing in bad faith especially when you know the discussion won't led to anywhere but animosity and snarkiness. I usually dont respond kindly to people that do that but I will choose to ignore from now on


    Apology accepted.

    Just because I disagree or my views challenge you doesn't mean it's in bad faith.
    No free mixing of the sexes is permitted on these forums or via PM or the various chat groups that are operating.

    Women must write modestly and all men must lower their case.

    http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?425649-Have-some-Hayaa-%28modesty-shame%29-people!
  • Maajid Nawaz vs Talib Kweli
     Reply #76 - August 25, 2016, 10:42 AM
    I'm sure a lot more has to do with misunderstandings than disagreements. If we have avoided that and keep the snarkiness aside, you will be surprised to find that we agree more on things than we disagree, but its cool.
    "I'm standing here like an asshole holding my Charles Dickens"

    "No theory,No ready made system,no book that has ever been written to save the world. i cleave to no system.."-Bakunin
  • Maajid Nawaz vs Talib Kweli
     Reply #77 - August 25, 2016, 11:16 AM
    I'll just leave this new diss track on Talib Kweli for you all to enjoy.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wUiJ47rNzTQ

    In my opinion a life without curiosity is not a life worth living
  • Maajid Nawaz vs Talib Kweli
     Reply #78 - August 25, 2016, 11:55 AM


    yap..........  that is from Talib Kweli.,  and we have folder on that Imam who was killed in Rochdale..

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/08/23/rochdale-imam-murdered-by-isil-supporters-for-practising-black-m/

    I guess that Talib Kweli don't read news  well he is busy with rap songs which makes lot more money than working for science or working in laboratory.,  There is a little doubt on that.  But I must agree with   Talib Kweli .,  All these Islamic heroes that come out such as  ISIS and Islamic allah god books are actually started with  funds given  by AMRIKA AND OIL FIELDS OF MIDDLE EAST from 1980s to that 9/11 .

    well I am stupid  that  9/11  actually carried out by AMRIKANS  on America
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • Maajid Nawaz vs Talib Kweli
     Reply #79 - August 25, 2016, 12:08 PM
    Quote from: Cato on August 25, 2016, 10:42 AM
    I'm sure a lot more has to do with misunderstandings than disagreements. If we have avoided that and keep the snarkiness aside, you will be surprised to find that we agree more on things than we disagree, but its cool.


    I've mentioned this before. There are more things we agree with then not as no doubt we've had similar experiences viz-a-viz Islam, culture and racism.

    But brothers fall out with each other now and again. It's life. We need opposing views, not just for the sake of it, but to push the discussion forward. And yes, I don't mind people getting a bit heated and maybe swearing (within reason) because it doesn't come from nowhere. I like it when a forum comes to life and all views/opinions/love/hatred is spilled across the boards. It makes for interesting conversation so long as the debate is informed by evidence and facts....
    No free mixing of the sexes is permitted on these forums or via PM or the various chat groups that are operating.

    Women must write modestly and all men must lower their case.

    http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?425649-Have-some-Hayaa-%28modesty-shame%29-people!
  • Maajid Nawaz vs Talib Kweli
     Reply #80 - August 25, 2016, 12:36 PM
     Cheesy Cheesy   holy cow .. holy shit .. holy allahdoll  holy cat

    http://wmbriggs.com/post/4923/

    http://www.gspellchecker.com/2016/08/maajid-nawaz-v-talib-kweli/

    http://wmbriggs.com/post/4923/
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • Maajid Nawaz vs Talib Kweli
     Reply #81 - August 25, 2016, 12:45 PM
    Quote
    Talib was engaging in his favourite pastime of pin the tail on the white supremacist


     Cheesy
     Cheesy
     Cheesy

    http://www.liberalamerica.org/2016/08/24/talib-kweli-trump-effect-polarization-dangerous-video/

    No free mixing of the sexes is permitted on these forums or via PM or the various chat groups that are operating.

    Women must write modestly and all men must lower their case.

    http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?425649-Have-some-Hayaa-%28modesty-shame%29-people!
  • Maajid Nawaz vs Talib Kweli
     Reply #82 - August 25, 2016, 08:27 PM
    Quote from: yeezevee on August 23, 2016, 09:47 PM
    well I gave all links of folders I wrote about Sam ..give me the link  of a post on that please.,  May be you are reading from  my posts more than what I intended to express or expressed ..


    The post you last made before my response in this thread.

  • Maajid Nawaz vs Talib Kweli
     Reply #83 - August 25, 2016, 08:49 PM
    Quote from: yeezevee on August 24, 2016, 12:35 PM

    So what did Sam Harris say on Nukes?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z7T7barZEeU


    This video helped my point far more than anything I have posted here. Can you understand why?
  • Maajid Nawaz vs Talib Kweli
     Reply #84 - August 25, 2016, 09:06 PM
    Quote from: TheDarkRebel on August 25, 2016, 11:16 AM
    I'll just leave this new diss track on Talib Kweli for you all to enjoy.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wUiJ47rNzTQ

    I'm disappointed this doesn't feature Maajid Nawaz.
    "Life is not a matter of holding good cards, but of playing a poor hand well."
    - Robert Louis Stevenson
  • Maajid Nawaz vs Talib Kweli
     Reply #85 - August 25, 2016, 10:16 PM
    ^He's like the least popular Wu Tang affiliate rapper,they no longer got love for him especially  RZA who accused him of jacking beats and lyrics,he called him a thief. Lol. 
    "I'm standing here like an asshole holding my Charles Dickens"

    "No theory,No ready made system,no book that has ever been written to save the world. i cleave to no system.."-Bakunin
  • Maajid Nawaz vs Talib Kweli
     Reply #86 - August 26, 2016, 10:13 AM
    Quote from: bogart on August 25, 2016, 08:49 PM
    This video helped my point far more than anything I have posted here. Can you understand why?

    off course bogart  off course.,   I can understand why you guys are saying all that against that guy Sam Harris., but for that  "i have I put my legs in to your shoes and think the way you are thinking "   

    I hope you are reading what I post and I hope you understand  why I post

    I can also understand.,  why some folks wants to kill   Maajid Nawaz  for what he says

    I can understand why  why Dr Younus Shaikh was jailed and why he would have lost his life in jail..

    I an understand why

    I can understand why Salman Rushdie  was given fatwa by heroes Islam from Iran

    and  I can understand why  that Japanese translator Hitoshi Igarashi, was stabbed to death outside his office. And I can understand why Italian translator Ettore Capriolo, stabbed at his apartment in Milan.  I can understand why William Nygaard, the Norwegian publisher of the Satanic Verses was shot  outside his home in Oslo.


     you know what bogart ., I need to write more here but don't have time  will be back in hr.. to explain you and others everything in detail .

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • Maajid Nawaz vs Talib Kweli
     Reply #87 - August 26, 2016, 01:35 PM
    I clicked that link Mr Yeez and this story of two gay guys being scolded by having boiling water poured over them is horrific:

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2016/08/24/man-who-threw-boiling-water-on-sleeping-gay-men-is-convicted-of-assault/?tid=hybrid_experimentrandomuk_1_na&utm_term=.3865aac2827c

    No free mixing of the sexes is permitted on these forums or via PM or the various chat groups that are operating.

    Women must write modestly and all men must lower their case.

    http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?425649-Have-some-Hayaa-%28modesty-shame%29-people!
  • Maajid Nawaz vs Talib Kweli
     Reply #88 - August 26, 2016, 07:22 PM
    Quote from: yeezevee on August 26, 2016, 10:13 AM
    off course bogart  off course.,   I can understand why you guys are saying all that against that guy Sam Harris., but for that  "i have I put my legs in to your shoes and think the way you are thinking "   



    That isn't required. Only the ability to see the vague pro-strike arguments which never name a location, group, source of the weapon. It is a magical jihadist group that must be able to teleport wherever it wishes... Rather it is omitting any consideration of the arguement in order to avoid addressing the primary issue is that jihadist groups operate in urban areas thus there are population which would be collateral damage. The only population Harris bring ups, and that seems to matter, are Europeans/Western nations.



  • Maajid Nawaz vs Talib Kweli
     Reply #89 - August 26, 2016, 07:47 PM
    Quote from: bogart on August 26, 2016, 07:22 PM
    That isn't required. Only the ability to see the vague pro-strike arguments which never name a location, group, source of the weapon. It is a magical jihadist group that must be able to teleport wherever it wishes... Rather it is omitting any consideration of the arguement in order to avoid addressing the primary issue is that jihadist groups operate in urban areas thus there are population which would be collateral damage. The only population Harris bring ups, and that seems to matter, are Europeans/Western nations.

    I see .,   this is different criticism from others  on what he said.,   Yes he  can be criticized on that..  what you are saying  is   " Mr.Sam Harris is only worried about folks in West and its people but it doesn't matter for him if JIhadis drop  A Bombs on some countries  around  east or middle east  "

    did I get that right from your post??

    in other words he didn't explain it properly in his book with a page or so ..    I say  Your argument and his argument of alleged first strike  becomes irrelevant when both are hypothetical scenes with tons of assumptions ...

    I think you have not read and   you have not heard him on what actually he said and he is saying on that please read his site..
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
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