Can an Athiest be president of the USA?

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- puzzlelover
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Can an Athiest be president of the USA?
OP - July 25, 2016, 01:11 PM

With the recent wikileaks release of DNC email about Sanders, he supposedly replied to Jake Tapper's question :

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Sanders has since ...and has now spoken out about the potential outing as an atheist. While visiting CNN, Jake Tapper asked Sanders directly about the email leak. Sanders reply was straight forward.
First of all, I am not an atheist. But aside from all of that, I mean, it is an outrage and sad that you would have people in important positions in the DNC trying to undermine my campaign. It goes without saying the function of the DNC is to represent all of the candidates, to be fair and even-minded.
- See more at: http://www.patheos.com/blogs/danthropology/2016/07/bernie-sanders-i-am-not-an-atheist-in-response-to-dnc-email-link/#sthash.b3exIFYu.dpuf

Shouldn't his response, like Jerry Seinfeld have been "First of all, I am not an atheist, not that there's anything wrong with that " ? It is obvious that the DNC believed that being an athiest would hurt his chances.
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Reply #1 - July 25, 2016, 01:35 PM

Quote from: puzzlelover on July 25, 2016, 01:11 PM
With the recent wikileaks release of DNC email about Sanders, he supposedly replied to Jake Tapper's question :

Shouldn't his response, like Jerry Seinfeld have been "First of all, I am not an atheist, not that there's anything wrong with that " ? It is obvious that the DNC believed that being an athiest would hurt his chances.

that link in your post goes to blank puzzlelover., you got to fix it

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zh6yeM60vrQ

anyways ., I can tell you this NO COUNTRY ON THIS EARTH that uses elections to select the head of state will elect an Atheist to the nation's highest office., And America is worst in that group ., May be in Holland one may get elected by campaigning as an atheist .

That is exactly the reason why all these religious faith heads are heading nations and its people specially in Islam. All these male moose heads of human jungle just cover everything with allah or god or whatever .. allah is the reason why one becomes king, caliph, head of state, DICK TRAITOR of a country .. To some extent it is also same other faiths and with other faith heads.,The only difference is Islamic rules are bit more strict in comparison to other faiths.

One must also realize ., there are variety of atheists., Any atheist who says there is NO ALLAHGOD and he/she 100% sure without any doubt means .. he is also as good as a dick head and dick traitor.. The only thing an atheist can say is ., "THERE IS NO ALLAH...NO GOD ..NO VOODOO DOLL... NO WHATEVER IS THE NAME " that is described in these stupid religious books.

Most important thing here is ....this ALLAH... GOD .. VOODOO DOLL... WHATEVER can not be "Heeeeee"., that has to be the number one rule., Next point should be., all these faith heads from different faiths must have freedom to explore their faiths and their gods . And an people must have freedom to question, to expose and to explore their ALLAH... GOD .. VOODOO DOLLS..

So the rule of the game should be "Question every thing" however correct a model/a hypothesis may be ., There will always be a bit room to improve and it could be as small as Planck's length or Planck's time..

Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything
I renounced my faith to become a kafir,
the beloved betrayed me and turned in to a Muslim
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Reply #2 - July 25, 2016, 02:20 PM

Tks yeez. fixed the link.

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can tell you this NO COUNTRY ON THIS EARTH that uses elections to select the head of state will elect an Atheist to the nation's highest office., And America is worst in that group ., May be in Holland one may get elected by campaigning as an atheist .

What about Sanders, if he is as principled as they say, at least taking the opportunity to disclaim that there is nothing wrong with a President being an athiest ? .... quite a few of his followers are.

On second thought:-
I think that there is a slim chance, that if the 'ideal' Republican candidate comes along with otherwise perfect credentials, including outstanding "looks" and/or charisma, this might be a non-issue or played down. Certainly the opposition Dems would not object on this point ? IMHO the DNC point about atheism, was more about how this would give primary voters pause about how this might affect their candidate's electability in the General election.

For instance, Dems are always suspect as being 'Socialists' (the horror), so Nixon could be the first president to visit China and not be vilified.

Obama's place of birth was a big issue, but some R's were seriously talking about changing the constitution, so Arnold (though a known womaniser) could stand. Unfortunately, for him that is, the paternity scandal put a kibosh on that.
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Reply #3 - July 25, 2016, 02:35 PM

Quote from: puzzlelover on July 25, 2016, 02:20 PM
Tks yeez. fixed the link.

What about Sanders, if he is as principled as they say............

well when your principles are going to make you loose and that is for sure .,WHY EVEN CONTEST ELECTION?? So many politicians even if they have some principles they do hide their principles.

Democracy is a number game., Unquestionable democracy/democratic government is ABSOLUTELY USELESS. If criminals are in high number it doesn't mean they should elect some criminal in to power to rule over other innocents .

Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything
I renounced my faith to become a kafir,
the beloved betrayed me and turned in to a Muslim
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Re: Can an Athiest be president of the USA?
Reply #4 - July 25, 2016, 02:56 PM

Quote from: yeezevee on July 25, 2016, 02:35 PM
well when your principles are going to make you loose and that is for sure .,WHY EVEN CONTEST ELECTION?? So many politicians even if they have some principles they do hide their principles.

Democracy is a number game., Unquestionable democracy/democratic government is ABSOLUTELY USELESS. If criminals are in high number it doesn't mean they should elect some criminal in to power to rule over other innocents .

Churchill supposedly said :
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Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all the others.

An educated and informed electorate is the best defence. However the media is corporate controlled. While Roman emperors provided 'bread and circuses', today the focus is on entertainment to distract people and control information to protect their interests.
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Reply #5 - July 25, 2016, 03:50 PM

Quote from: puzzlelover on July 25, 2016, 02:56 PM
Churchill supposedly said :

Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all the others.

well Winston Churchill quoted/popularized that quote and he himself says that in this book

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An educated and informed electorate is the best defence. However the media is corporate controlled. While Roman emperors provided 'bread and circuses', today the focus is on entertainment to distract people and control information to protect their interests.

you got a point there puzzlelover ., but entertainment is also important to human life and for that matter life itself ., what is needed is self controls and rules of/for democracy to make it better..

Some one said "Capitalist economy is the worst of economic systems" but you need that for the growing population and their never ending needs/necessities ., what is important is adding some rules to Capitalist economy., such as spoonful socialism rules and bit of communistic rules where necessary .. So one has to keep these driving systems under checks and balances ., For that FREEDOM OF EXPRESSION WITHOUT PERSECUTION IS MUST and it is the first thing every one should have.

good to watch Mrs Hillary rodham Clinton
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2CAUOa5m5nY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Lm0nxMiOT8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-namImCszCk

Without doubt she is and was very smart & Intelligent

Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything
I renounced my faith to become a kafir,
the beloved betrayed me and turned in to a Muslim
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Reply #6 - July 25, 2016, 04:10 PM

this is fun to watch..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GM0o9N7LM3E

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IcTrdOv5a1s

Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything
I renounced my faith to become a kafir,
the beloved betrayed me and turned in to a Muslim
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Reply #7 - July 25, 2016, 05:22 PM

Quote from: yeezevee on July 25, 2016, 03:50 PM

... but entertainment is also important to human life and for that matter life itself .,

Yeez, I'm no Taliban , I am not talking about entertainment in that sense.

You know what I mean. How the media does not provide a balanced or serious analysis of important issues. People get impatient that it takes time and effort to understand complicated issues and would rather watch the Game. I've done it myself, TBH. Every thing is reduced to soundbites with no nuance. The money involved in advertising, particularly US elections, also is a factor, one doesn't bite the hand that feeds you.

Where is the Woodward and Bernstein of today? If it wasn't for wikileaks we might never know anything.

here are some links
http://www.medialit.org/reading-room/whatever-happened-news
http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-illusion-of-choice-ninety-percent-of-american-media-controlled-by-six-corporations/5472690
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.
what is needed is self controls and rules of/for democracy to make it better..

No argument, but how is this to be accomplished is the question .
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Reply #8 - July 25, 2016, 06:33 PM

Quote from: yeezevee on July 25, 2016, 03:50 PM
So one has to keep these driving systems under checks and balances .,

One of my pet peeves is gerrymandering in North America:
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Gerrymander: It's a dirty word. Everyone knows it's a political insult, but not everyone understands exactly what it means. And even many of those who know what gerrymandering is don't fully grasp how it completely dominates American politics.
https://pjmedia.com/zombie/2010/11/10/gerrymandering-101/?singlepage=true

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https://pjmedia.com/zombie/2010/11/11/the-top-ten-most-gerrymandered-congressional-districts-in-the-united-states/
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This is what gerrymandering looks like in the modern era: ugly. Gone are any attempts at aesthetics. In the old days, redistricters at least tried to disguise their gerrymandering by drawing district lines that looked almost kinda sorta reasonable. No more. Nowadays many districts, with FL-20 being a good example, seem to be the result of computer algorithms with no regard whatsoever for human or natural boundaries. Needless to say, all sense of "community" within a congressional is out the window altogether when it is shaped like this, with jagged tendrils reaching out every which way to gobble up the desired demographic.
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Reply #9 - July 25, 2016, 06:51 PM
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Three Electoral Reforms That Would Improve And Enrich Our System Of Representative Democracy
BY ZAID JILANI NOV 2, 2010 9:00 PMhttp://thinkprogress.org/politics/2010/11/02/127962/three-electoral-reforms-improve/
- Publicly Finance All Federal Campaigns: According to Federal Elections Commission data collected by the nonpartisan Center for Responsive Politics, more than $3.98 billion was spent on elections this campaign season. Much of this money comes from powerful corporate interests. For example, the finance, real estate, and insurance industries — who have keen interest in legislation dealing with financial reform, the mortgage market, and other major issues — alone contributed a whopping $216 million this season. Candidates for office feel obliged to tap into the wallets of these special interests in order to get their messages out and run competitive campaigns. The only major alternative is to self-fund, which has resulted in campaigns like that of California Republican gubernatorial candidate Meg Whitman. Whitman spent $140 million of her run for the Governor’s mansion. An electoral system that relies candidates to either be super-wealthy or pander to powerful special interests in order to fundraise is broken. A better system would be to publicly finance viable candidates. The bipartisan Fair Elections Now Act would allow candidates who received a qualifying number of small contributions to receive public financing for their campaigns, meaning they are accountable only to the general public, not special interests. Campaign finance experts estimate that as little as $6 from every American would be enough to publicly finance all federal campaigns.
- Enact Instant Runoff Voting Nationwide: American politics is overwhelmingly dominated by two major political parties: the Democratic and Republican parties. Yet polling shows that Americans, by a wide margin, feel that there needs to be more diversity and more choices in the American political system. The dilemma that voters have always faced when it comes to voting for third parties or independent candidates involves not wanting the “greater evil” to win. For example, progressive voters who do not want to vote for a conservative Democrat are afraid that by voting for a progressive third party candidate, they will be enabling a more conservative Republican to win by denying the Democrat votes. Instant runoff voting (IRV) would eliminate this problem. Instant runoff voting would allow voters to rank their choices on the ballot. ...
- Make Voting Day A National Holiday And Allow For Same-Day Registration: Unfortunately, nationwide voting for federal elections is always located on a weekday. Because of this, voting is a major obstacle for workers who feel like they have to choose between a paycheck and a ballot.
Until we get a voting public who actually cares about these things and demand changes, they will be stuck with complaining about the system.

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The 2012 Presidential Election Campaign will cost around $6bn, Election price tag could reach $6 billion. With about 230mm eligible voters, thats about $26 per voter. What if the candidates just tried to pay you? Would you sell your vote for 26 dollars?
Actual turnout might be around 130mm, so that's $46 per vote. Worth it?https://www.quora.com/U-S-Presidential-Elections-How-much-would-it-cost-a-candidate-to-buy-your-vote

Add that to the cost of the house and senate seats.
The media and other industries that profit from this system are not anxious to inform the voters about it.

That is in the US. There must be much more to it, but just what I can think of.
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Reply #10 - July 25, 2016, 07:11 PM

Here's a view from Canada briefly:
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_political_financing_in_Canada...
Previous to 2015:
Of the three ways in which federal parties are allocated public funding, the per-vote subsidy is largely seen as the most democratic. 100% of the voters of eligible parties (99% of all voters in the preceding election) have a say, with their input treated on equal basis (1 voter, 1 vote).[2][3][4][5][6][7][11][12][14][16][17]
The subsidy entered into effect on January 1, 2004, at $1.75 per vote (indexed to the Consumer Price Index) as part of a set of amendments made by the Jean Chrétien government to the Canada Elections Act which for the first time set limits on political contributions by individuals and organizations (corporations, unions, non-profit groups). The per-vote subsidy was introduced to replace the reliance of political parties and candidates on corporate, union, and wealthy donors in order to reduce the political influence of such donors.[2][5][18]
The subsidy was reduced to $1.53 by the Harper government on April 1, 2012, and was reduced on each subsequent April 1, until its elimination in 2015.[14]

Also Harper called for a 40 day longer election campaign period, which was supposed hurt the opposition, but ironically let people know Trudeau and he won in spite of having less funds. Unfortunately for Harper, Canadians couldn't stand him any more so nothing he did worked this time.

Now its Trudeau's turn, who promised a fairer electoral system than 50+1 wins. Let's see what he come up with.
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Reply #11 - July 25, 2016, 10:47 PM

Quote from: puzzlelover on July 25, 2016, 01:11 PM
...being an atheist would hurt his chances.

If 2015 Gallup poll is accurate gauge of general electoral attitude, then atheist presidency is possible,. But polls are just snapshots.

However I'm of the opinion election becomes increasingly possible, depending on particular characteristics and party affiliation of the candidate. Despite popular notion such candidate would be Democratic, I believe that is DOA, and opposite is more likely. The ideal candidate would be conservative on social and economic issues, pro-gun, hawkish, holds to exceptionalism, attends church, and perhaps more importantly, will nominate conservatives to US Supreme Court. Nonetheless the current politically fractured landscape appears to suggest, atheist electability and presidency is no longer beyond the pale of the electoral conscious:

Joseph
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Reply #12 - July 26, 2016, 12:05 AM

Quote from: Joseph on July 25, 2016, 10:47 PM
If 2015 Gallup poll is accurate gauge of general electoral attitude, then atheist presidency is possible,. But polls are just snapshots.

However I'm of the opinion election becomes increasingly possible, depending on particular characteristics and party affiliation of the candidate. Despite popular notion such candidate would be Democratic, I believe that is DOA, and opposite is more likely. The ideal candidate would be conservative on social and economic issues, pro-gun, hawkish, holds to exceptionalism, attends church, and perhaps more importantly, will nominate conservatives to US Supreme Court. Nonetheless the current politically fractured landscape appears to suggest, atheist electability and presidency is no longer beyond the pale of the electoral conscious:
Joseph

Hi Joseph, I think you mean this poll

http://www.gallup.com/poll/183713/socialist-presidential-candidates-least-appealing.aspx

For some reason they didn't poll about one Group, i.e. WASPs (which excludes Evangelical) who are most likely to be establishment candidates.

If you look at numbers in 2015 by age, seniors, who are more likely actually vote, have only 48-50% for athiests, vs 60-75% for younger groups.

I agree that If there was an 'ideal' athiest candidate, he would overcome the overcome the 'godless' stigma, and as years go by it should be more possible as the older cohort gets phased out.

Certainly overall Socialist ranks the bottom of the list and Sanders had that going against him too.

In 1960, it was a big deal for the first Catholic President JFK to be elected. It is with GWB with the emphasis on divisive social issues, that the Christian Right have taken over the GOP Primary Nomination process, but sooner or later its going to sink in that they haven't been able to select an electable Nominee and they will drop this ridiculous 'God' test.
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Reply #13 - July 26, 2016, 06:54 PM

Puzzlelover,

I too would like the testing to end for my own reason.

As for Christian Right, I’m not sure what to think on current ability to influence nomination process. Sixteen years ago co-opting the right assured GOP ticket. However in 2012 the right supported a candidate belonging to LDS, which mainstream Christianity considers heretical. This election year the right is supporting a stranger to decency.

I had Sanders and Trump in mind in pervious post. I believe Sanders, that he not atheist. It’s common for Jews to avoid mentioning God in public, also Bernie from beginning of campaign has taken the high road on test of religion. Trump on the other hand is a demagogue who will say and do anything to serve his ego. Again, I cannot know person’s heart, but his own words witness against him. Imo, Trump is atheist in all but name.

First and foremost Christians are to be people of faith, but appears too many have abandoned faith for political-religious agenda. For this reason is why I believe conservative atheist is more likely to be elected than theist socialist. All in all less than two months ago it seemed ludicrous, I would ever agree with Sam Harris.

Joseph
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Reply #14 - July 26, 2016, 07:12 PM

Quote from: Joseph on July 26, 2016, 06:54 PM

Puzzlelover,

.............. Imo, Trump is atheist in all but name. ....................

............ I would ever agree with Sam Harris................
.
Joseph

you think Trump is an atheist Joseph?? what kind of atheist will run on the support of Christian right wing?? well that is certainly an insult to atheists and I will never be in that group.,

Anyways how do you define an atheist in your world Joseph?

A 'self-centered egomaniac' Narcissist at his best??

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-roY9pYzEVo

Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything
I renounced my faith to become a kafir,
the beloved betrayed me and turned in to a Muslim
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Reply #15 - July 26, 2016, 07:28 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lMI6Dpmg5yw

Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything
I renounced my faith to become a kafir,
the beloved betrayed me and turned in to a Muslim
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Reply #16 - July 26, 2016, 08:55 PM

Quote from: yeezevee on July 26, 2016, 07:12 PM
... what kind of atheist will run on the support of Christian right wing?? ...

Politics make strange bedfellows, Yeez, but I doubt Trump is an athiest. A non-practising nominal christian may be. This is what he said in 2015. Though if it suited his purpose, he would say something else tomorrow without batting an eyelid.
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Donald Trump Still Doesn’t Know What His Own Church Believes
BY JACK JENKINS OCT 26, 2015 4:11 PM
...“I’m Presbyterian,” Trump said at the rally, repeating the line several times, according to the Washington Post. “Boy, that’s down the middle of the road, folks, ”....
When Trump says he’s Presbyterian, he’s specifically referring to the Presbyterian Church (USA), or PC(USA). Trump grew up attending First Presbyterian Church in Jamaica, a PC(USA) congregation in New York City. Although he currently claims to attend Marble Collegiate Church in Manhattan —... that church issued a statement in August clarifying that Trump is not an “active member,” and Trump himself has never abandoned his Presbyterian affiliation. Instead, he repeatedly claims the historic faith group when speaking to evangelical voters, citing it as proof of his Christian credibility.
Unfortunately for Trump, the PC(USA) — as a denomination — is discernibly not “middle of the road,” but arguably one of the most progressive major Christian groups in the country. ......, but share a common trend: almost all skew towards the progressive end of the religio-political spectrum.
This is largely why the PC(USA) has directly challenged Trump on his policy positions — specifically his negative statements about immigrants, who he has called “rapists” and “drug dealers.” Earlier this month, the Stated Clerk of the PC(USA) — one of the highest-ranking officers in the denomination — called on Trump to renounce anti-immigrant rhetoric, ......

Further it's not certain that every vote he got was from Evangelicals, and maybe not even Republicans according to this Red State Blog, a Republican site:
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12 Million Democrats Voted In The Republican Primaries
DIARY / MICHAEL HARRINGTON // Posted at 6:19 pm on June 25, 2016 by Michael Harrington
...Using 2000 and 2008 as baselines, the conclusion was staggering. Trump only got about 3.3 million Republican Votes. The rest are Democrats, approximately 12 million of them.
...In some circumstances the vote differences were so extreme that it defies explanation. Only for one election did I not find good information, and that being an incumbent versus a challenger I could ignore it safely.

Of 31 million who voted in the Republican Primary 38% approximately were Democrats.

...In any event our election was stolen. Trump would be in fourth, or worse, without Democrats, he would probably only have won New York and considering he would be doing so badly when that election happened it is unlikely even there. We have been tossed to the ground and electorally gang raped by Democrats.

The GOP is counting on the polarized state of of the country and hatred of the Clintons, that people will hold their noses and vote for Trump.
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Reply #17 - July 26, 2016, 10:10 PM

Quote from: Joseph on July 26, 2016, 06:54 PM

... Sixteen years ago co-opting the right assured GOP ticket.....

That is just when "the chickens came home to roost" and to mix metaphors the " tail started wagging the dog". It's the culmination of Nixon's Southern Strategy -- 50 years in the making.

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How the Southern Strategy Made Donald Trump Possible
https://newrepublic.com/article/130039/southern-strategy-made-donald-trump-possible
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Reply #18 - July 26, 2016, 10:18 PM

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...what kind of atheist will run on the support of Christian right wing??

Without meaning to shake you out of your dream palace, atheists are not cast in the same mold.

Conservative atheists are outlier for sure, but they exist. Some are attracted to teachings of the man Jesus, attend church (usually mainline) and have measure of religious bearing, and enjoy the community and outside church activities. On the other side, some priest and ministers that lost faith remain in the church for same reason.

Joseph
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Reply #19 - July 26, 2016, 11:05 PM

Joseph,

Quote
Is Donald Trump now a born-again Christian?
By Emily McFarlan Miller | June 25, 2016
...
Trump recently accepted a relationship with Jesus Christ as his Savior, making him a “baby Christian,” Focus on the Family founder James Dobson said in an interview posted Friday (June 24) to Michael Anthony’s website, Godfactor. Dobson and Anthony, pastor of Grace Fellowship in York, Pa., spoke after the candidate’s meeting Tuesday in New York City with nearly 1,000 evangelicals.

“He did accept a relationship with Christ. I know the person who led him to Christ, and that’s fairly recent. … I believe he really made a commitment, but he’s a baby Christian,” Dobson said.

http://religionnews.com/2016/06/25/is-donald-trump-now-a-born-again-christian/

This may be politically motivated, but you cannot keep saying he is atheist. He has never publicly made that claim pre-politics, has he ?

About Sanders my point was, that after clarifying that he wasn't an atheist, as a liberal progressive, he could have used the opportunity, to emphasize that this should not be an issue in any case.
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Reply #20 - July 27, 2016, 05:55 AM

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...but you cannot keep saying he is atheist

I’m not intending to play hot potato with ownership of Trump, but Dobson shortly after reporting conversion walked back his statement. Nevertheless I’ve overstepped in matter that is between Mr. Trump and God.

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About Sanders...

Yes I muffed the Sander’s discussion.

Joseph
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Reply #21 - July 27, 2016, 09:39 AM

Quote from: Joseph on July 26, 2016, 10:18 PM
Without meaning to shake you out of your dream palace, atheists are not cast in the same mold.

Conservative atheists are outlier for sure, but they exist. Some are attracted to teachings of the man Jesus, attend church (usually mainline) and have measure of religious bearing, and enjoy the community and outside church activities. On the other side, some priest and ministers that lost faith remain in the church for same reason.

Joseph

Joseph dear Joseph ., trust musivore and trust me ., and trust the rule-1

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RULE1: There is No God/allahgod/voodoo doll/ heeeeeeee that is described in any faith books of any religion.

And I have never said all atheists are typecast with same ideas, same ideals and same goals in life. Atheist doesn't mean ., Atheist is all goody goody Jesus Christ of new testament or Joseph of Genesis.,

My Atheism is very simple and that is rule-1 you see above and rule-2 is use "Golden Rule" use as much you can to live life. And and the human relationships that are built with compassion + wisdom will have very long-lasting effect on other human beings and possibly on other species that we interact during our life time.

So I am calling you to my glass house that will have full freedom with "Question everything " policy

Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything
I renounced my faith to become a kafir,
the beloved betrayed me and turned in to a Muslim
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Reply #22 - July 27, 2016, 12:33 PM

Quote from: puzzlelover on July 26, 2016, 11:05 PM
Joseph,

This may be politically motivated, but you cannot keep saying he is atheist. .......

well Joseph hates atheists., specially after he started reading me or fellows like me on internet lol.,

And That republican candidate of America ., he is such a self centered cartoon character he will sell his wife, ex-wives and his kids and his country for what he wants., These American republican party gave free ride to him ad he is trying to sell that "I MAKE US of A GREAT AGAIN SLOGAN " and he want do that by making few more rich and lot more poor in AMERIKA

Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything
I renounced my faith to become a kafir,
the beloved betrayed me and turned in to a Muslim
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Reply #23 - July 27, 2016, 12:53 PM

Quote from: Joseph on July 27, 2016, 05:55 AM
I’m not intending to play hot potato with ownership of Trump, ...

Joseph,
Not sure how this turned into a hot "trump-atoe" game with me You are the one trying to palm him off on atheists. We didn't bring up his religion, you did, so its between you and Dobson. Have Fun

P.S. Joe, (Hope you don't mind, you can abbreviate my name to something if you choose), you really should provide some source to back up your claims. For instance you originally said he was an atheist, without any proof, and now -
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...but Dobson shortly after reporting conversion walked back his statement.

without backup.
It doesn't really matter to me what Dobson did or didn't do in this case, but just pointing this out fyi.
Regards
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Reply #24 - July 27, 2016, 05:08 PM

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Not sure how this turned into a hot "trump-atoe" game with me

Puzzlelover, For this reason is why I said..."I'm not intending..."

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For instance you originally said he was an atheist, without any proof,

Indeed I did, regretted, and acknowledged I overstepped.

I did not believe link was necessary since events are recent and easily discoverable. And no. I rather have a discussion with you than Dobson.

Regards, Joseph
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Reply #25 - July 27, 2016, 05:49 PM

Quote
well Joseph hates atheists...

I'm won't defend myself but to say: An insurmountable barrier between us already exist, there is no good reason to create artificial ones with wrongheaded speech.

Joseph
- puzzlelover
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Can an Athiest be president of the USA?
Reply #26 - July 27, 2016, 05:58 PM

ok Joe
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I did not believe link was necessary since events are recent and easily discoverable.

I do think a link to your source is good so we know where you are coming from.
Why do you expect others to research or know your POV ?
If I may say so it would help you avoid having to walk back your statements.

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Indeed I did, regretted, and acknowledged I overstepped.

If there was any hint that Trump was an atheist, don't you think Ted Cruz et al would've tried to use it against him ?
AND so what if he was ? Folks here would still attack his stupid positions.
Also Liberals/progressives can be Christian. Look at Jimmy Carter, who is liberal and the most christian public figure I can think of.
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Can an Athiest be president of the USA?
Reply #27 - July 28, 2016, 12:28 AM

Puzzlelover, I did say, "Imo" and once again, I regret saying it. Now I’m not sure how links would have contributed anything to this discussion. Neither of us need New Republic opinion Trump used race strategy developed by Goldwater, and perfected by Nixon. Our observations should be sufficient. If I were to defend my presumptuous remark about Trump, why should Dobson be final arbitrator? Dobson said in so many words, he doesn’t believe Obama is Christian. I don't agree. However if you believe the link is helpful, it follows

http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/dobson-walks-back-claims-about-trumps-born-again-conversion

You have asked two questions, first one I will treat as mere curiosity.

Simplest answer aside: In political arena it might be matter of political calculation, the pros and cons; gain and backlash, and GOP directives to candidates.

On second I should remind you of the topic question you started: Nowhere did you mention candidate need be person atheists find favorable. I answered the topic and made conditional argument why I believe such candidate might arise from GOP. Trump was just a spillover, nothing more.

Where Jimmy Carter fits into discussion, I don't know.

Regards, Joseph
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Can an Athiest be president of the USA?
Reply #28 - July 28, 2016, 12:06 PM

Quote from: Joseph on July 27, 2016, 05:49 PM
I'm won't defend myself but to say: ~~An insurmountable barrier between us already exist,~~...........................

Joseph

Joseph you trying to hurt me by building barriers and walls .. Stop it.. So I am reading this news

Indonesia rejects international pleas to halt execution of Pakistani convict
22 die as rain, floods batter KP, Punjab

and typing post to you

Joseph you build the wall around you I will break that wall to meet you
Joseph you build the barrier around you I will jump over it to meet you
Joseph you dig the trench around you I will fill it with water and swim through it
Joseph I am NOT a jack ass atheist with fixed mind set
Joseph I don't believe in allahgodvoodoodolls "heee" " the dickhead" of human brain

but Joseph I do believe in godliness ..in actions..

So this fucking "heeeeeee god"., if it is really there "I would have NOT read that news today " and I would have not seen this picture

and this picture of Ali

who was jailed for 12 years in fucking Indonesia on a cooked up charge that he smuggled 300 gms of some of shit and beat the hell out of him to confess that shit crime and now they put him up for hanging
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Pakistani national, Zulfiqar Ali, who is facing imminent execution in Indonesia after being convicted of drug-related charges in a controversial trial. After languishing in jail for 12 years, Ali is set to be executed in Indonesia.

Ali, 52, was arrested in November 2004 in connection with a 300-gram heroine case in Jakarta. A co-accused in the case, Gurdip Singh, retracted his statement against Ali, saying the confession had been coerced from him.

Ali was arrested at his home without a warrant in Indonesia’s West Java province. For three days, he was “kicked, punched and threatened with death” by the Soekarno-Hatta Airport district police until he was forced to sign a “self-incriminating confession”. Ali was rushed into an emergency stomach and kidney surgery due to the severity of the physical torture he was subjected to. He remained in the hospital for 17 days, .................

So there plenty of reasons for which I don't believe in this stupid fucking heeeeeee god of stupid faith heads

But I do see this "godliness" in every biological species and that includes even a buffalo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LU8DDYz68kM

And I see the godliness in the grass that feeds the cow which gives milk for my cup of evening tea., And..and I wish there is a buffalo god that could save Ali and that could save that flood havoc every year the land of pure and poor folks across the globe face

So please continue to read write ., You have a hell of lot of experience in life and readers have lot to learn from you and that goes to me also..

with best regards
yeezevee

Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything
I renounced my faith to become a kafir,
the beloved betrayed me and turned in to a Muslim
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Reply #29 - July 28, 2016, 05:46 PM

Joseph, my grandkids are over will respond soon. regards.
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