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Theme Changer

 Topic: Chilcot Report and Labour meltdown

 (Read 8708 times)
  • 12 Next page « Previous thread | Next thread »
  • Chilcot Report and Labour meltdown
     OP - June 30, 2016, 05:05 PM

    I'm wondering how true this is as an explanation for the timing of the bid to get rid of Jeremy Corbyn as Labour leader.
    Quote
    No rational person could blame Jeremy Corbyn for Brexit. So why are the Blairites moving against Corbyn now, with such precipitate haste?

    The answer is the Chilcot Report. It is only a fortnight away, and though its form will be concealed by thick layers of establishment whitewash, the basic contours of Blair’s lies will still be visible beneath. Corbyn had deferred to Blairite pressure not to apologise on behalf of the Labour Party for the Iraq War until Chilcot is published.

    For the Labour Right, the moment when Corbyn as Labour leader stands up in parliament and condemns Blair over Iraq, is going to be as traumatic as it was for the hardliners of the Soviet Communist Party when Khruschev denounced the crimes of Stalin. It would also destroy Blair’s carefully planned post-Chilcot PR strategy. It is essential to the Blairites that when Chilcot is debated in parliament in two weeks time, Jeremy Corbyn is not in place as Labour leader to speak in the debate. The Blairite plan is therefore for the parliamentary party to depose him as parliamentary leader and get speaker John Bercow to acknowledge someone else in that fictional position in time for the Chilcot debate, with Corbyn remaining leader in the country but with no parliamentary status.
    ....

    https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2016/06/still-iraq-war-stupid/
  • Chilcot Report and Labour meltdown
     Reply #1 - June 30, 2016, 05:09 PM

    Some background: Chilcot Inquiry: When is the Iraq War report being published and why has it taken so long?

    The report is due out on Wednesday.

    Here's Dennis Skinner linking the timing of the leadership bid to Chilcot:
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qBfstod0Msk&ebc=ANyPxKpsq_9MEQhravpuMh5VWF40Y2umMP4ovNi3BN709tKaq70Jl_sP5jqgTuvyYc0wOwuSCwtj
    Corbyn being asked about Tony Blair and war crimes back in August:
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?ebc=ANyPxKpsq_9MEQhravpuMh5VWF40Y2umMP4ovNi3BN709tKaq70Jl_sP5jqgTuvyYc0wOwuSCwtj&v=d6VEKVHu2mY
  • Chilcot Report and Labour meltdown
     Reply #2 - June 30, 2016, 05:43 PM

    I'm wondering how true this is as an explanation for the timing of the bid to get rid of Jeremy Corbyn as Labour leader.

    https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2016/06/still-iraq-war-stupid/


    It's got to be slightly more grounded in reality than the one that suggests that it's because Corbyn isn't being racist enough, although at this point it's an open question as to how much Labour's MPs are able to address the reality of how disconnected they are from the party at large.

    Quoted in full (source) because the punchline is a thing of beauty:

    Quote
    What the parliamentary Labour party is doing right now is very stupid, and we shouldn’t shy away from saying that they’re doing it because they are very stupid people. In one day, eleven members of Jeremy Corbyn’s shadow cabinet resigned, their announcements spaced out for total media saturation, little grins of transgressive glee breaking through their sham TV-ready seriousness. With the British public, that vast and wandering abstraction, having very possibly voted itself out of existence, and the government in a state of permanent turmoil, only an opposition party that is deeply stupid would think that this is the best moment to attempt to remove its own leadership. Only the deeply stupid (or the outrightly fascist) would see a country collapsing into fascism as a great opportunity to start attacking the left. But the Labour right are a deeply unimpressive lot: blinkered, vicious, grasping, narcissistic, petulant, and desperate, these people operate primarily through the medium of the hapless plot, and want very keenly to be loved, to which end they will do almost anything except trying to be less loathsome. It doesn’t really make much sense to call them Blairites any more – Blair’s original pact was directed at a universal and post-ideological petit bourgeoisie, offering them bright colours and melodic sounds in a sunlit neoliberal utopia. As we discovered, that deal was hollow; what we got was war and collapse. Labour’s new right, by contrast, is neurotically fixated on a half-remembered image of the working class, and its only promise to them is to be more racist.

    There was something very strange, and mostly unremarked-upon, in the short period of stage-setting that preceded yesterday’s mass resignations. In a series of documents leaked to the media, shadowy and nameless disgruntled MPs complained that Corbyn had failed to effectively press for Britain to stay in the EU, ‘sabotaged’ the LabourIN campaign, and spent much of his time criticising Brussels while ostensibly defending it. But then there was this: an allegation that Corbyn would not allow the Labour party to ‘discuss or address concerns around immigration, writing them off as ‘xenophobia’, ‘prejudice’ or ‘racism’ at every turn.’ On the face of it, this doesn’t make much sense: these much-vaunted and (as we’re constantly assured) deeply reasonable concerns around immigration tend to correlate strongly with an antipathy to the EU; indulging them would have only further doomed the Remain campaign’s efforts. Corbyn seems to be in an impossible position, not allowed to defend or critique the European project. But this shouldn’t be read on its face. It isn’t a complaint; it’s a symptom. If you want to know what’s going on in the Labour party, this is a good place to start: the little psychic knot at the heart of the right wing’s determination to get rid of the man.

    This is why they’re trying to depose Jeremy Corbyn – he refused to be racist enough. The real nature of the complaint is of course buried in metaphor; the preferred euphemism is electability. For years, Labour has attempted to endear itself to the populace by adopting the language of the far right – Gordon Brown’s ‘British jobs for British workers’; Ed Miliband putting the words ‘controls on immigration’ on an official mug and the rock that would become his tombstone. It’s a curious form of self-abasement: a metropolitan elite, terrified of what it is and desperate to be seen as something else, takes its worst prejudices about the working classes and upholds them as a positive. Unsurprisingly, it hasn’t worked – people who do subscribe to racist ideologies will tend to vote for parties that espouse them out of the genuine conviction of evil, rather than those who openly announce that their evil is only a cynical ploy. But it has had the effect of entrenching the language of the far right across the political spectrum, and thereby reinforcing the idiot axiom that you have to speak it to win popular support.

    In this whorled circle of a political cosmology, Corbyn is an utterly abject thing: he represents an electorate that does not want to elect the designatedly electable, a structural impossibility, and like all structural impossibilities he becomes the object of a visceral, somatic horror. Labour has given up pretending that its anti-socialism is a matter of political expediency. This is a war of extermination, and it’s being fought for reasons that are simply not rational. Each resigning shadow cabinet member gave the same ramblingly tautological explanation: it’s not ideological, and Jeremy is (in a nauseatingly reiterated phrase) a ‘great human being’, but he’s been unable to lead effectively, unable to secure the support of the parliamentary party, and therefore they can no longer pretend to support his leadership. In other words, they’re forced to hate him because they already hate him; they want him to go because that’s what they want.

    Still, there’s no point pretending. The Labour party has not done well under Corbyn, it has not been united, and it has little hope of winning a general election. The fact that this is mostly down to the recalcitrance of its right-wing MPs doesn’t change this fact, and can’t be subtracted from its effects. But if his leadership has been turbulent, his ouster would be fully disastrous. The party might be unified, but with the unity of the inept. Yes, Corbyn has failed to keep his party together, but his enemies – who are, remember, supposed to be the politically savvy ones here – have been even more cackhanded in their attempts to remove him. The current shambles of a coup is no exception. From a purely strategic perspective, it was a terrible idea: the plotters had no real leverage, and no real plan beyond the expectation that Corbyn would obediently resign. So far, he has not resigned, and he’s almost certain to win any new leadership election. All these people have succeeded in doing is exhausting and exposing themselves. They think they can take Labour to victory, but they can’t even carry out a half-decent conspiracy; far from saving the party, any successful intervention would probably end up destroying it forever. Which is for the best. After all, imagine the peril we’d be in if these slapstick mediocrities managed to get their hands on nuclear weapons.

  • Chilcot Report and Labour meltdown
     Reply #3 - July 01, 2016, 02:37 PM

    This would fit in with the argument above about not being racist enough:
    Quote
    ....
    What does electability mean now for the leader of one of these parties? I don’t think anyone really knows. Certainly the Labour MPs currently mounting a coup in its name don’t seem to have much of an idea. Some, like Tristram Hunt, seem to be under the impression that restoring the party’s hegemonic position can be achieved by offering a warm “One Nation” response to the rising tide of English patriotism, a tendency echoed by his soft left colleague Owen Smith just yesterday in his call for “progressive” immigration controls in order to win over the supposedly UKIP-flirting alienated Northern (white) working class.
    ....
    the incumbent Labour leader is probably closer than his rivals to generating something that could translate into an “electable” project of the left for the current state of endless political dislocation. Closer, but still I suspect, miles away. For at present, the absolute favourite, miles ahead of the pack, is a project of protectionist nationalism led from the populist right. Something that draws together the shared resentments of middle and de-industrialised England against liberal metropolitan England, just as the EU referendum evidently just did. It is this leading the charge to be what Thatcher was to 1979 and what Labour were to 1945.
    ....
    The idea that the movement of human beings across borders is the special force deconstructing our society. That “protecting our own” will save 'us' from anything, that “they”, “the other” should be excluded so that we might prosper.
    ....

    https://medium.com/@casi_insurgente/i-am-considerably-more-sceptical-about-the-effects-of-formal-politics-on-this-countrys-social-and-7b483bc54051#.nwy2jh3y1

    The idea of Owen Smith as an alternative challenger to Angela Eagle has been floated here, I'm not sure how seriously. Also here and here.

    Video clip: Owen Smith on Jeremy Corbyn: 'It breaks my heart'.
  • Chilcot Report and Labour meltdown
     Reply #4 - July 04, 2016, 07:25 AM

    I have this terrible habit of reading the comments on newspaper articles online, and there are a fair few comments from people that suggest they want him to be more racist.  In fact they are accusing him of not being Labour, but actually Liberal since he isn't traditionally 'working man' racist enough.  Caring about the workers of Britain means white Britain first and foremost, on account of the 'white genocide' occurring at the moment.  Cheesy  genocide...lol. 

    I don't think that's what the attempted coup is about however, I believe that is purely to do with the upcoming Chilcot report.  According to this article doing the rounds, Portland Communications, which has close links to Blair, is behind/part of the coup attempt, and also part of the reason that the media continues to present Corbyn in such a negative way:  http://www.thecanary.co/2016/06/28/truth-behind-labour-coup-really-began-manufactured-exclusive/

    Everyone keeps saying he is unelectable, but that was also a rumour started by the media.  Now it keeps being repeated by people who simply have no evidence whatsoever that he couldn't win, given he hasn't actually ever run in the general election.

    I'm all for deselection, think it needs to be brought back, especially given Angela Eagle's (his current competition) constituency have made it crystal clear they are against her running against Corbyn, yet it appears she is not willing to listen to them...the very people who voted her into position.   Roll Eyes

    It's all quite disgusting really.  Rather than coming together and going after the government whilst it was in a shambles, they turned on their elected Labour leader.   finmad

    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Chilcot Report and Labour meltdown
     Reply #5 - July 05, 2016, 05:34 PM

    The Chilcot Report comes out tomorrow. For now here's some background on it from former British diplomat Carne Ross.

    Carne Ross - Iraq: the story of my evidence

    Carne Ross explodes the Chilcot inquiry's cosy consensus

    Carne Ross - Testimony to the Chilcot Inquiry

    Carne Ross - The country needs the Iraq inquiry. What a shame it will be a whitewash

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=78tMpDqMpkc
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=48P1u0RMSH8
  • Chilcot Report and Labour meltdown
     Reply #6 - July 05, 2016, 06:41 PM

    Craig Murray - Blair can be tried for war crimes

    Craig Murray - Not the Chilcot Report

    Peter Oborne - If Chilcot fails to nail Blair's lies, it's final proof our democracy is broken

    Peter Oborne's Chilcot Report (Radio 4 broadcast)
  • Chilcot Report and Labour meltdown
     Reply #7 - July 06, 2016, 08:08 AM

    #ChilcotsLastLine
  • Chilcot Report and Labour meltdown
     Reply #8 - July 06, 2016, 09:48 AM

    Paul Mason on the prospect of a Labour split
    Quote
    The publication of Chilcot today will most likely freeze the Labour internal battle for a couple of days. If it does not, and the Labour right come out swinging punches in defence of Blair, Straw and other architects of the illegal war, you can take that as a sign that the right’s intention to split is serious.

  • Chilcot Report and Labour meltdown
     Reply #9 - July 06, 2016, 09:57 AM

    urban75 thread on Chilcot

    Guardian - Chilcot report live

    Carne Ross on twitter
  • Chilcot Report and Labour meltdown
     Reply #10 - July 06, 2016, 11:35 AM

    Download the report: http://www.iraqinquiry.org.uk
  • Chilcot Report and Labour meltdown
     Reply #11 - July 06, 2016, 02:25 PM

    Oborne on Chilcot
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=3UebE7GGanE&time_continue=11&ebc=ANyPxKquhheeMoRPmUmd_ZbgctU5PX8lZgfosRwny6FEvvzatP-gzOqXNyCMjufP1PJKCQ7TZRcj
  • Chilcot Report and Labour meltdown
     Reply #12 - July 06, 2016, 03:17 PM

    Corbyn gives Chilcot statement
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=leCbtch2AUA
  • Chilcot Report and Labour meltdown
     Reply #13 - July 06, 2016, 08:27 PM

    Eid FUCKING Mubarak!!!!

    No free mixing of the sexes is permitted on these forums or via PM or the various chat groups that are operating.

    Women must write modestly and all men must lower their case.

    http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?425649-Have-some-Hayaa-%28modesty-shame%29-people!
  • Chilcot Report and Labour meltdown
     Reply #14 - July 06, 2016, 11:32 PM

    Carne Ross - How Tony Blair sold the war
  • Chilcot Report and Labour meltdown
     Reply #15 - July 07, 2016, 01:37 AM

    well how about listening to the leader of that time  Mr. Tony Blair..

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uMJVAMD7axg

    and also this one

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Flm1qxQAWY4

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Chilcot Report and Labour meltdown
     Reply #16 - July 08, 2016, 03:32 PM

    Video - Carne Ross on the Chilcot report

    Tony Blair could be sued for 'every penny' by families of soldiers killed in Iraq War
  • Chilcot Report and Labour meltdown
     Reply #17 - July 09, 2016, 11:31 PM

    well how about listening to the leader of that time  Mr. Tony Blair..

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uMJVAMD7axg

     

    really was it??  was it right decision? then why today's  BBC News saying this?

    Quote
    How Tony Blair came to be so unpopular

    No British prime minister in modern times has experienced a plunge in fortune like Tony Blair's.
    Cheered to the echo as he left the Commons chamber for the last time as prime minister in 2007, after 10 years of largely untroubled dominance, the tragedy of Iraq quickly ensnared him so completely that by this summer he admitted he would be a liability in the campaign to keep Britain in the European Union. The old Blair magic had turned to sand.


    Oh that is what happened .,  well it happens when you drink American  juice brew in a bush along with bush.,   read the rest at the today's news link..

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Chilcot Report and Labour meltdown
     Reply #18 - July 10, 2016, 07:16 AM

    But was it illegal (will they admit it!!??)

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36756878

    Throw him and his good faith in jail and throw  away the chabi

    No free mixing of the sexes is permitted on these forums or via PM or the various chat groups that are operating.

    Women must write modestly and all men must lower their case.

    http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?425649-Have-some-Hayaa-%28modesty-shame%29-people!
  • Chilcot Report and Labour meltdown
     Reply #19 - July 10, 2016, 12:22 PM

    But was it illegal (will they admit it!!??)

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36756878

    Throw him ........... in jail and throw  away the chabi.............

     well one may say put him or put them in jail ., others may  put them on trial and ask the court  to hang some  people for that war.,   but  one has to think carefully on that illegality of that war and possible prosecutions that many are proposing overtly or covertly after Briexit.. and most importantly on this UN resolution

    UN Security Council Resolution 1441  voting

    Voting summary  15 voted for

     None voted against
    None abstained
    Result   Unanimously Adopted


    Security Council composition

    Quote
    Permanent members
     China
     France
     Russia
     United Kingdom
     United States
    Non-permanent members
     Bulgaria
     Cameroon
     Colombia
     Guinea
     Ireland
     Mauritius
     Mexico
     Norway
     Singapore
     Syria

    all of those  countries essentially supported Mr.Bush and Mr. Blair

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Chilcot Report and Labour meltdown
     Reply #20 - July 12, 2016, 03:50 PM

    Legal letter to NEC chief over Labour leadership rules

    This is from trade union members on Labour's national executive committee. The NEC meeting is going on now.

    Edit: Corbyn on the ballot by 18 to 14 vote.
  • Chilcot Report and Labour meltdown
     Reply #21 - July 13, 2016, 10:32 AM

    More on Owen Smith's leadership bid
  • Chilcot Report and Labour meltdown
     Reply #22 - July 15, 2016, 05:35 PM

    Interview with Paul Mason on the situation in the Labour Party, among other things. It's interesting but doesn't actually give me any new-found confidence in the Labour left, or make me think that the movement of the left into the Labour Party is a good idea (my thoughts are more or less summed up by this).
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=jQo9lvtzjV8&ebc=ANyPxKr6ditRN6lj5MZGNKkAvUNzW_JmbbW6ZxqwypEGJmiO-AoKKr_WNKrY8xJZekmkIDkBTvX5
    Matthew Black on Labour's internal shambles: Democracy in the Labour Party: a bird that’s flown a squalid nest
  • Chilcot Report and Labour meltdown
     Reply #23 - July 24, 2016, 08:25 AM

    More Owen Smith
  • Chilcot Report and Labour meltdown
     Reply #24 - July 24, 2016, 08:54 AM

    Speaking of the collapse of politics, I read this lately:

    Quote
    It’s not just that the terms don’t fully make sense, although they really don’t. As the party’s chorus of Cassandras keeps insisting, Labour is in an incredibly weak position – to take power at the next election would require a surge in support unprecedented in modern British political history, something utterly outside the boundaries of convention. So why do they think that going to the polls with a conventional leader, espousing now-conventional policies, would produce that result? How is someone like Owen Smith, a piece of forgettable biological generica, someone whose main tactic appears to be pretending to have so few distinguishing characteristics that the only possible polemic against him would be a mean-spirited attack on the essential impotence and idiocy of humanity as such, supposed to do it? If Corbyn’s leadership has been incompetent, how much more incompetent are the Parliamentary rebels who can’t even defeat him within their own party? If the worry is that a right-wing media will never accept Corbyn, hasn’t a half-decade of embarrassing bacon sandwich-eating shots shown that no successor is likely to fare any better? In a time when political certainties have all melted into the stale fog, when loony minority propositions like leaving the European Union can suddenly surge to victory, when any monster can apparently wrench itself out of the imagination and into reality, when the quiet and dignified prude on the Clapham omnibus is now sweating omnicidal rage from every pore as the bus cooks in the July heat and small riots pop off like firecrackers in scattered corners of the city, why is centrist pabulum still thought to be what the great British public are desperately crying out for?

    But what’s being presented is not, despite appearances, a tactical question. It’s not even a political choice. The battle isn’t between the left and the centre, and it’s certainly not between Corbyn and Smith; it’s a choice between politics in general and something else, between the possibility of politics as a terrain for contention and its collapse into the crumbling administration of class society as it slowly declines into incoherence. Jeremy Corbyn, for better or worse, might be the last party leader whose politics are still actually political. His removal would be the victory of the monster, an enormous creature turning a sanitised face of bland focus-group triangulation towards us, while far away at its distant arse-end there’s the febrile wailing of a resurgent fascism. The fact that my politics are substantially different to Corbyn’s, or that I happen to think his old-Labour Keynesianism, lightly inflected with universal basic modishness, is actually less likely to be put into practice in the current climate than the kind of ludic revolutionary hyperbole I’d prefer – it’s immaterial. Now is not the time. Emancipatory politics of any shade, from the mildest reformism to Bataille’s becoming other or else ceasing to be, can only have a language in which to communicate themselves while there’s still a field of politics separate from management. Without that, they’ll slip back into theology. The concerned types of the soft left, the ones who don’t even really disagree with Corbyn’s politics but have decided that he’s too compromised and too toxic and a unifying candidate needs to be found, would condemn their own projects and mine for the sake of removing one crotchety old man and in the vain hope of winning one general election.


    Source.
  • Chilcot Report and Labour meltdown
     Reply #25 - July 29, 2016, 06:00 PM

    Owen Jones interviews Corbyn. For what it's worth I'm very sceptical about a Labour government being able to deliver much of this and my views are closer to Joseph Kay's on this twitter thread.
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=fGXVHHxxnZQ&ebc=ANyPxKrvS8klwgVh3RuLoNt3XuAYLASOKmYlrYkO4b4Cds8zjV6vRnDqltElhtxtu_EARP1H8sil
  • Chilcot Report and Labour meltdown
     Reply #26 - August 02, 2016, 04:02 PM

    Middle East Eye interview with Corbyn

    This covers foreign policy and touches on the Chilcot report, but see also this old thread. There's an updated link for Maryam Namazie's blog post on Corbyn and Islamism here.
  • Chilcot Report and Labour meltdown
     Reply #27 - August 17, 2016, 03:04 PM

    Owen Smith in favour of 'getting round the table' with Islamic State
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5w0MT0Qr044
  • Chilcot Report and Labour meltdown
     Reply #28 - August 17, 2016, 03:36 PM

    Philippe Sands reviews the Chilcot report

    Crowd-funding pays for lawyers to comb Chilcot report for Blair guilt over Iraq
  • Chilcot Report and Labour meltdown
     Reply #29 - September 13, 2016, 06:41 PM

    Labour Party suspensions
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