Brexit - yes or no?

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Reply #90 - June 24, 2016, 07:52 AM

Quote from: Ursus on June 24, 2016, 05:40 AM
Yup.

This is going to be interesting in the "interesting" way.

- paying for irresponsible economics of others
- open borders
- micromanagement from ~~Brussels~~Angela Merkel
- letting in Eastern European countries with poor economy, high crime rates and serious democratic problems
- strong voices(Angela Merkel) saying that an islamistic dictatorship should be let in too

I'm not surprised.

(Wasn't there a popcorn munching smiley somewhere?)

UK was a voice for good inside UE. Now, left with Germany as the policy maker it will get even worse for EU.

Anyway I hope some EU countries will learn a lesson and introduce tougher immigration policies, otherwise others will follow suit.
Glad that idiot Cameron have resigned. EU referendum should never be taking place.
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Reply #91 - June 24, 2016, 07:53 AM

This is not just about race and immigration . A lot of people are just fed up of petty laws and money grabbing politicians.
And neither side have been convincing with their facts.
On the question of immigration , most people here seem to think it's a simple matter of ignorant white folks not wanting to deal with other people . This is inaccurate and untrue. I work for the NHS , most of the people on my team are African and you should here them talk about eastern Europeans and Syrians , Nigel Farage would wince
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Reply #92 - June 24, 2016, 08:00 AM

Looks like the knives are being sharpened for Corbyn.
Peter Mandelson just popped up on news - exactly the kind of conceited , self serving , useless apparatchik who's making people disillusioned with politics
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Reply #93 - June 24, 2016, 08:29 AM

Lots of bright young people on tweets I am following are already discussing where they could emigrate to. They are our future, unlike the over 60s who delivered a Brexit majority.

What a disaster, this isn't my country any more.
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Reply #94 - June 24, 2016, 09:00 AM

Quote from: BerberElla on June 24, 2016, 07:21 AM
I know right? We have Cameron thanks to easily manipulated voters, and now we've been pulled from the EU, by the same sort of easily manipulated voters.

I voted remain yesterday. But honestly, I'm in a country full of secret racists and open racists, so I shouldn't be surprised at all.

Even with the fact that the leave campaigns promises are already being revealed as 'mistakes' today...you know, because immigration isn't going to stop, and the NHS isn't going to get flooded with money ( how stupid you must be to have believed that in the first place anyway ), it won't deter the leave supporters.

You know why, because they have their Britain back. They hankered for the good old days of empire, and nationalism, and hated having to be part of something that valued foreign voices.

Well they can enjoy it. Nothing that makes me sicker than national pride. You did fuck all for your country, you have fuck all to be proud of.

4 years, finish my studies, move the fuck out of here.

I haven't read any other posts than yours yet, Berbs. My reason for voting to leave is not based on immigration: I firmly believe this country will be stronger out of the controlling grip of Brussels and the influence of Germany. Germany prospered since WWII and I believe Britain will prosper after leaving Europe. We're more than capable of standing on our own two feet. And we will. My vote was for this country, its industry, creativity, inventiveness, and most of all for its people. Not now, not in 10 years or 20 years, but for future generations who will be so much freer to invent and engineer and create and export to the rest of the world.
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Reply #95 - June 24, 2016, 09:18 AM

Quote from: aife on June 24, 2016, 07:53 AM
This is not just about race and immigration . A lot of people are just fed up of petty laws and money grabbing politicians.
And neither side have been convincing with their facts.
On the question of immigration , most people here seem to think it's a simple matter of ignorant white folks not wanting to deal with other people . This is inaccurate and untrue. I work for the NHS , most of the people on my team are African and you should here them talk about eastern Europeans and Syrians , Nigel Farage would wince

Great post. Absolutely, totally and wholeheartedly agree.

The patronising attitude to the little people is a huge motivating factor in a lot of so called working class people voting to leave. I know this first hand because a lot of my colleagues are these people. Not based on immigration or race. It's about being more in control of our own country.
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Reply #96 - June 24, 2016, 09:18 AM

Now I have to go, got work to do.
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Reply #97 - June 24, 2016, 11:22 AM

Now its time to start planning for a border poll in Northern Ireland and a second indy ref in Scotland. Both those places voted to stay in the EU, no reason why they should be dragged out by England and Wales.

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Reply #98 - June 24, 2016, 12:07 PM

Cameron has resigned! We need to readjust and not allow the mass hysteria to stifle stablisation. Better to fall into a pit and start climbing out now, rather than faling into a bigger pit later.
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Reply #99 - June 24, 2016, 12:35 PM

Quote from: aife on June 24, 2016, 07:53 AM
This is not just about race and immigration

It wasn't only about race & immigration, but that was by far the main issue.

I very much doubt the leave campaign would have won if it were not that many people voted because they are under the illusion it will stop those bloody foreigners coming in to "our" country.

Sanity 0 Racist Fuckwits 1
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Reply #100 - June 24, 2016, 12:59 PM

Quote from: jrg on June 24, 2016, 09:18 AM
Great post. Absolutely, totally and wholeheartedly agree.

The patronising attitude to the little people is a huge motivating factor in a lot of so called working class people voting to leave. I know this first hand because a lot of my colleagues are these people. Not based on immigration or race. It's about being more in control of our own country.

Despite voting remain, I agree - looked down on and screwed from both sides, from the right by globalising capitalism and from the left by champagne socialists. Trouble is, they have picked the wrong subject to protest on. The rich will be OK, they always are, while those who voted for Brexit (or their kids) will suffer. Turkeys for Christmas. More active regional policy, wealth taxes, better education would have helped more, but this long term stuff which should have been started years ago.

By the way, it's not just rural white people. It seems majorities for Leave in poor areas with large Muslim populations such as Burnley were much the same as those in whiter but equally deprived areas, while Tower Hamlets was just as Remainish as the rest of London. It was xenophobia, but not race or even culture - the EU immigrants they want to kick out have rather pale skins, in case you have not noticed...
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Reply #101 - June 24, 2016, 01:13 PM
Quote from: Hassan on June 24, 2016, 12:35 PM
It wasn't only about race & immigration, but that was by far the main issue.
I very much doubt the leave campaign would have won if it were not that many people voted because they are under the illusion it will stop those bloody foreigners coming in to "our" country.
Sanity 0 Racist Fuckwits 1
well Racists are every where and in every continent and in every culture but the voting pattern is interesting., I hope someone will analyze it carefully Frankly speaking such voting is not bad.. the results says

Quote
Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union?

Total population 65million ., EU referendum with 33.6 million voted ., 72.2 per cent turn out...

Remain a member of the European Union..........................48.1%..........................................16,141,241

Leave the European Unioncheck..............................................51.9%............................................17,410,742

Actually 48% is pretty good number., it could have gone either way with proper campaign., Now the problem is what about within Europe ., if such poll takes place in those countries how many of them will come out of EU??

More important is " will that be better to those who live in those countries.?

Will England people have better economy better life if they segregate from other nations and stop doing business with other nations? I tell you they will be worse off...world is not any more "Hail England and Hail Queen "

I think AMRIKEE elections are more important than this one..
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Reply #102 - June 24, 2016, 01:51 PM

It's a victory for ordinary people, for real people.

Before it gets too late, you will find escape.
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Reply #103 - June 24, 2016, 02:57 PM

Quote from: toor on June 24, 2016, 01:51 PM
It's a victory for ordinary people, for real people.

what toor... you are confusing me

is it victory for ordinary people of England ? or is it victory for real people of England?

I am not sure about that ., but I know England can not handle simple immigration problem in 21st century but they can colonize and rule whole countries and solved all the world problems including how much they can eat every day so folks in those countries don't get indigestion for centuries and centuries .

.well that is the picture of former colonies of England.. Now the problem for some people of England is former colonies immigrants are becoming mayors of England towns.,that is a serious problem..

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bengal_famine_of_1943

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Bengal_famine_of_1770

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Reply #104 - June 24, 2016, 03:11 PM

Quote from: yeezevee on June 24, 2016, 02:57 PM
what toor... you are confusing me

is it victory for ordinary people of England ? or is it victory for real people of England?

I am not sure about that ., but I know England can not handle simple immigration problem in 21st century but they can colonize and rule whole countries and solved all the world problems including how much they can eat every day so folks in those countries don't get indigestion

(Clicky for piccy!)

for centuries and centuries ..well that is the picture of former colonies of England.. Now the problem for some people of England is former colonies immigrants are becoming mayors of England towns.,that is a serious problem..

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bengal_famine_of_1943

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Bengal_famine_of_1770

Let bygones be bygones yeeze. Some of us here (or our families) probably came from former colonies ourselves and they were our access to this country indirectly or directly i.e. the commonwealth. Now that is not any justification for imperialism or colonialism, and make no mistake I am 100% anti-imperialist, but that's how it happened and we can't fixate on what could have been. We're here now and sadly enough we're the lucky ones.

And anyway the good ol' colonialist shtick argument doesn't really apply here since plenty of the EU members in some way were great colonial powers or at least partook in some sort of genocide, slavery, war etc. If anything seceding from the EU is better from an anti-imperialist perspective simply because of the numbers game.

It seemingly makes Europe less united and therefore less safe. If Europeans supposedly play the divide and conquer game, well then they've played it on themselves here. Anyway a lot of the anti-immigration propaganda was tooled against white, Eastern-European immigrants anyway. Asian and African immigrants will probably still flood in regardless, and even if they don't there surely has to be a limit right? We do live in a sovereign country and we have to respect it's decisions and laws regardless of whether we agree with their colonial past or not; because we're still benefitting from it.

Just us pontificating on these forums, staring down our noses is proof of that!

But for myself these arguments aren't even the crux of why I voted leave. I firmly believe the economic situation will get worse before it gets better but here's hoping it will get better in the long run since this is my country and I'm not going anywhere else.
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Reply #105 - June 24, 2016, 04:02 PM

Quote from: jrg on June 24, 2016, 09:00 AM
I haven't read any other posts than yours yet, Berbs. My reason for voting to leave is not based on immigration: I firmly believe this country will be stronger out of the controlling grip of Brussels and the influence of Germany. Germany prospered since WWII and I believe Britain will prosper after leaving Europe. We're more than capable of standing on our own two feet. And we will. My vote was for this country, its industry, creativity, inventiveness, and most of all for its people. Not now, not in 10 years or 20 years, but for future generations who will be so much freer to invent and engineer and create and export to the rest of the world.

Fair enough jrg, I do understand that not everyone voted to leave over race/immigration issues, but I do agree with Hassan, the majority of them did.

In uni we were taught to be highly sceptical of the EU, especially given that it was beginning to represent an empire. We were taught to question many things about our relationship with the EU, but we were taught to do that without needing to resort to the 'barbarians at the gate' rhetoric that the leave campaign used to stir up support for their cause.

A woman was even killed over the hatred many English people feel towards anyone who supports remaining, and free immigration. That's how hateful the campaign was, and how much it stirred up national pride.

My road is flying the St George's flag, and it's all English national pride, union jack short wearing, beer drinking tossers.

I'm sitting here, sandwiched between them, thinking fuck, what a wonderful bunch of knobs I am surrounded by.

Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
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Reply #106 - June 24, 2016, 04:04 PM

Quote from: aife on June 24, 2016, 07:53 AM
This is not just about race and immigration . A lot of people are just fed up of petty laws and money grabbing politicians.
And neither side have been convincing with their facts.
On the question of immigration , most people here seem to think it's a simple matter of ignorant white folks not wanting to deal with other people . This is inaccurate and untrue. I work for the NHS , most of the people on my team are African and you should here them talk about eastern Europeans and Syrians , Nigel Farage would wince

I know this too, you should hear my parents and my aunty get started on how immigrants are coming over here to steal 'our' jobs...all the while ranting this shit in Moroccan, the only language they are actually proficient in. You don't have to be white to have been stirred up by the racist rhetoric of the leave campaign.

Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
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Reply #107 - June 24, 2016, 04:05 PM

Quote from: Hassan on June 24, 2016, 12:35 PM
It wasn't only about race & immigration, but that was by far the main issue.

I very much doubt the leave campaign would have won if it were not that many people voted because they are under the illusion it will stop those bloody foreigners coming in to "our" country.

Sanity 0 Racist Fuckwits 1

Pretty much sums up my feelings spot on. If you removed the fear of foreign invaders who will steal jobs, benefits, NHS beds, houses, and of course might bomb or rape your children...then would the UK actually have voted the way it did?

Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
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Reply #108 - June 24, 2016, 04:39 PM

Quote from: yeezevee on June 24, 2016, 02:57 PM
what toor... you are confusing me

I'm paraphrasing Farage. As to what he thinks "ordinary" or "real", much less "decent" is, who can say.

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Reply #109 - June 24, 2016, 05:00 PM

Quote from: BerberElla on June 24, 2016, 04:02 PM
Fair enough jrg, I do understand that not everyone voted to leave over race/immigration issues, but I do agree with Hassan, the majority of them did.

In uni we were taught to be highly sceptical of the EU, especially given that it was beginning to represent an empire. We were taught to question many things about our relationship with the EU, but we were taught to do that without needing to resort to the 'barbarians at the gate' rhetoric that the leave campaign used to stir up support for their cause.

A woman was even killed over the hatred many English people feel towards anyone who supports remaining, and free immigration. That's how hateful the campaign was, and how much it stirred up national pride.

My road is flying the St George's flag, and it's all English national pride, union jack short wearing, beer drinking tossers.

I'm sitting here, sandwiched between them, thinking fuck, what a wonderful bunch of knobs I am surrounded by.

Sad to hear you have to come across that scum.
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Reply #110 - June 24, 2016, 05:06 PM

Quote from: BerberElla on June 24, 2016, 04:05 PM
If you removed the fear of foreign invaders who will steal jobs, benefits, NHS beds, houses, and of course might bomb or rape your children...then would the UK actually have voted the way it did?

Can I quote this? (Anonymously if you prefer.)
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Reply #111 - June 24, 2016, 05:13 PM

Racism was definitely a major factor in getting some people to Vote Leave. If it wasn't, Farage wouldn't of done the Breaking Point poster of Syrian Refugees and Turkey wouldn't of been such a key issue despite the fact it is not part of the EU. To claim race was not an issue when it came to immigration is disingenuous.

I don't think the majority of people who voted Leave were racist or xenophobic, even if Immigration was the deciding factor, there are many issues that the EU open border policy free movement did create especially among the lower social classes. If Vote Leave genuinely focused on societal issues I would of voted for them, but the fear of the other was certainly the best way for them to rally the troops, therefore I abstained.

It is funny that so many people actually believed the Neoliberal Gove, Farage and BoJo actually care for the working class and the NHS. The white underclass/working class will always be ignored by the establishment. Maybe they will learn that it was Westminister who were fucking them all along rather than Brussels.

There was certainly a Progressive argument to Leave the EU but that certainly wasn't very vocal in the referendum.
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Reply #112 - June 24, 2016, 05:20 PM

Quote from: Hassan on June 24, 2016, 05:06 PM
Can I quote this? (Anonymously if you prefer.)

Of course hun.

Quote from: Hsnake on June 24, 2016, 05:00 PM
Sad to hear you have to come across that scum.

Me too, trust me. I'm pretty brown, and my son (even more Muslim name) is even browner. Let's just say my neighbours are never pleasant to me, and like to blame my house for everything that happens on this street, even though I never have any involvement with anything, since I'm pretty damn anti-social.

Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
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Reply #113 - June 24, 2016, 05:23 PM

Quote from: BerberElla on June 24, 2016, 05:20 PM
Of course hun.

Me too, trust me. I'm pretty brown, and my son (even more Muslim name) is even browner. Let's just say my neighbours are never pleasant to me, and like to blame my house for everything that happens on this street, even though I never have any involvement with anything, since I'm pretty damn anti-social.

What a bunch of fuckers.
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Reply #114 - June 24, 2016, 05:51 PM

I noticed the same xenophobia during the Scottish referendum, a lot of nonsense about sweaty socks and subsidy junkies. It even crept into this forum to a small extent. Once Brexit becomes a reality and the little Englanders no longer have the EU to blame for all their problems, it wouldn't surprise me if ethnic minorities in Britain increasingly become the new whipping boy.

No offense, but I'm glad I don't live in England at the moment.

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Reply #115 - June 24, 2016, 07:02 PM

Quote from: nbhb on June 24, 2016, 04:30 AM
Madness. What have you done?

A Romanian view

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Reply #116 - June 24, 2016, 07:40 PM

I'm absolutely devastated with the result today. Just yesterday I was motivated and optimistic for my future, today I'm desperate to leave the country as soon as possible, and I'm angry. I'm angry at a generation that was given so many opportunities and privileges, yet chose the rob mine of much of what we had left. I'm angry at the young people who didn't bother to vote because they didn't care enough to prevent the country from falling into ruin. As long as they can still go to a club on a Friday night and get absolutely pissed, nothing else matters.
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Reply #117 - June 24, 2016, 08:35 PM

"It's about stopping Muslims coming into this country!" Man on the street interviewed by Channel 4 on why he voted "Leave"

https://www.facebook.com/Channel4News/videos/10153842562976939/
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Reply #118 - June 24, 2016, 09:47 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q0KGfIZQ-H8

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Reply #119 - June 24, 2016, 09:52 PM

Ugh. You tricked me into watching Fox News. I'm gonna go make ghusl now.
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