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Theme Changer

 Topic: I've come at a crossroad, which path will I take?

 (Read 2519 times)
  • 1« Previous thread | Next thread »
  • I've come at a crossroad, which path will I take?
     OP - January 20, 2016, 11:49 PM

    Hello,

    I'm a muslim person who deeply loves my faith and everything about it. I know some muslims leave or get doubts because they don't like some aspects of Islam, but for me that's not the case. If it truly is from Allah, I will follow it down to the tee and accept every bit of it.

    The problem comes for me in accepting what I see as incoherency, and inconsistencies in religious texts. Things like the ayaterajm being eaten by a goat.

    I want to know, what made you so convinced that Islam is false that you could sleep at night without fearing you may wake up to a judgement day and eternal flames?

    As I said above, I only want logical and scientific reasons, nothing related to culture or morals which is subject to individual interpretation.
  • I've come at a crossroad, which path will I take?
     Reply #1 - January 21, 2016, 12:01 AM

    Welcome to the forum contemplating. I'm not sure what path you ought to take, but you are in the right place to share and reflect on your doubts. And have a rabbit!  bunny

    how fuck works without shit??


    Let's Play Chess!

    harakaat, friend, RIP
  • I've come at a crossroad, which path will I take?
     Reply #2 - January 21, 2016, 04:17 AM

    I decided that any god who leaves all this ambiguity about violence is not worth submitting to. If the Quran really was clear and evident to all people, then what is going on? A truly omnipotent god could do a lot better than this.

    Also, the way the Quran lays out how to deal with women is pathetic. I believed all of it was great until I found myself in a bad situation with no recourse at all. Islamic law does not treat women justly. Women basically have to put up and shut up if they get a bad family or husband or both. Men can walk off and strike out on their own. Women, not so much. So far I have found myself to be the moral superior of my father, husbands, and wali. Why should I have to put up with a guardian if I can do better taking care of myself and my family than they can? Why am I not equal to what they failed at?

    I loved Islam. I loved the prayers and the clothing and all of it. But Allah seriously could have done right by us. When I became a parent I knew I would never do to my children, or indeed any human, what Allah has done to us. I never wanted my children to worship a god that was not truly great, I wanted them to show more compassion than that. A god can do anything, could have done anything, and instead, does nothing, and did less than what was needed. It just speaks for itself. There is no point in praying to someone like that.

    And welcome.  parrot

    Don't let Hitler have the street.
  • I've come at a crossroad, which path will I take?
     Reply #3 - January 21, 2016, 08:49 AM

    Hi contemplating,
    I think what stood out for me the most from your post was your emphasis on asking about scientific and logical reasons for leaving Islam, and not necessarily moral or cultural. When I was first going through my periods of doubt and shaky faith, I reasoned with myself that morals and cultures are a really gray area to judge a religion by - if God exists, and if he commands us to do something that sounds immoral, such as make a woman's testimony in court half the worth of a man's... who are we to question God? The only way to have a more rigorous form of analysis of the truthfulness of the religion is to judge it on scientific/logical grounds, which is why I lost my faith. (Disclosure: I am a Biochemistry major and currently a medical student, so I have quite a bit of science background).

    The first thing is this. We know where humans came from. Through the process of evolution by natural selection, the diversity of life on earth was generated, and this a well-substantiated pillar of modern biology. There was no Adam or Eve, and even if we put aside the idea of evolution for a second, we see that believing that all humans are descended from 2 individuals who lived a few thousand years ago isn't a logical hypothesis. The mutation rate needed to generate the current level of diversity, human migration patterns to inhabit the continents, the problem with inbreeding for the first couple generations, and the biggest thing, the entire mitochondrial and Y-chromosomal DNA record all disprove it strongly.

    There was no flood either from the story of Noah's ark. People did not live to be hundreds of years old in ancient times. The concept of Jinns is rooted in Pre-Islamic Arabian mythology (and conspicuously, appear no where at all in Judaic or Christian texts... odd considering they received their message from the same source apparently?). The possibility of a child being born without a father is completely impossible (where did Jesus get his Y-chromosome, or even the centromeres needed for the very first replication of the zygote stage?? This is a topic I could go on about, but won't for the sake of brevity).

    If you study Islam from an objective perspective, it becomes very clear (to me at least), that it is a human creation, not a divine one. It is a product of the culture and times from which it developed in, rooted in geography, pre-existing cultural beliefs, and the traditions of the Arabs. Much like Judaism developed as an extension of Israelite culture, Hinduism developed from ancient Indian culture, Christianity developed with a strong influence from Hellenic/Greek culture... All the religions of the world show examples of that human touch, and their answers to the mysteries of the world are grounded in ignorance and lack of rigorous investigation.

    Sure we haven't figured everything out, e.g. where did the universe initially come from. But if religions are already wrong about the stuff we have figured out, they sure as hell won't have the right answer to the bigger questions either.
  • I've come at a crossroad, which path will I take?
     Reply #4 - January 21, 2016, 09:03 AM

    I'm not and never have been a Muslim so I can't really say anything helpful but let me give you an example.

    Consider vitamin D.
    https://www.vitamindcouncil.org/about-vitamin-d/how-do-i-get-the-vitamin-d-my-body-needs/

    Vitamin D is important for good overall health and strong and healthy bones. It’s also an important factor in making sure your muscles, heart, lungs and brain work well and that your body can fight infection.

    The two main ways to get vitamin D are by exposing your bare skin to sunlight and by taking vitamin D supplements. You can’t get the right amount of vitamin D your body needs from food.

    The most natural way to get vitamin D is by exposing your bare skin to sunlight (ultraviolet B rays). This can happen very quickly, particularly in the summer. You don’t need to tan or burn your skin to get vitamin D. You only need to expose your skin for around half the time it takes for your skin to turn pink and begin to burn. How much vitamin D is produced from sunlight depends on the time of day, where you live in the world and the color of your skin. The more skin you expose the more vitamin D is produced.

    You believe that your god created us. If so, he created us to be naked. Yet you believe he has commanded us (but only women) to be covered up.  Why would he do that? Your answer to the question is that he works in strange and wondrous ways / is ineffable/ is testing us. I would say that he was made up by people that knew nothing about vitamins, the Quran doesn't say "remain covered up but make sure you eat plenty of oily fish" does it?

    The problem with replying to people that ask the question you posed is that every example like the one above will be brushed away with some kind of mystical explanation. Ultimately, it becomes a waste of time to pursue the debate.
  • I've come at a crossroad, which path will I take?
     Reply #5 - January 21, 2016, 04:04 PM

    From strictly a health point of view, Rob's post about exposure to the sun, is something all muslims should keep in mind.
     
    There is a trend of muslim girls adopting covering at earlier ages, even in the West where winter restricts our sun exposure anyways.  It is important for developing bones to get adequate sunlight, calcium and activity.  One can take supplements but its not the same thing.

    in sunny Arabia, even the men would cover to protect from sunburn so this point may not have occurred to the author/s of the Quran and hadiths.

    From abstract of a study Severe vitamin D deficiency in Arab-American women living in Dearborn, Michigan.
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19211395

    Quote
    CONCLUSIONS:
    Vitamin D deficiency, as assessed by 25-hydroxyvitamin D concentrations, is endemic in a sample of Arab-American women living in Dearborn, Michigan. These findings potentially identify an important health problem in the largest, most-concentrated Arab-American population in the United States.

       
    AND
    from another study Exposure to sunlight and vitamin D deficiency in Saudi Arabian women

    http://pmj.bmj.com/content/60/707/589.full.pdf
    Quote
    .....it has been well recognized that
    inadequate exposure to sunlight plays an important
    role in the aetiology of rickets and osteomalacia. This
    fact is emphasized by the data in our study. Due to
    social customs, women in Saudi Arabia are not
    exposed to adequate sunlight. Rural dwellers and
    those living in villas with courtyards are able to get
    more exposure to sunlight than those living in air-conditioned
    apartments in which direct entry of
    sunlight is obstructed by walls or glass. The subjects'
    own estimate of the adequacy of their sunlight
    exposure has proved to be reliable in our study.


    Not a muslim myself, but as bit of a health nut this subject is of interest to me. 
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