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 Topic: What I learned about sex (post-apostasy)

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  • What I learned about sex (post-apostasy)
     OP - December 31, 2015, 02:32 AM

    Just wanted to write a little post about the things I realised about sex after freeing myself from islamic ideas and having finally experienced it myself (25 years of abstinence yo! My ovaries almost exploded...).

    1) It's not a big deal.
    Not even the "first time". It is in the sense that you're discovering something completely new and have no idea what you're doing, but it's no different than taking a plane for the first time, camping for the first time, or whatever else.

    2) I feels like the most normal thing in the world.
    Because it is. It's not evil, it's not magical, it's just normal.

    3) "Loosing your virginity" doesn't change you.
    I felt absolutely no different, except for the relief that "it works" (TMI: I never managed to get anything in there so I was scared as hell that I will suffer and be in pain and that it would never work... well, it took trying several times, but everything works!). I didn't feel like something was taken from me or that I was dirty. I felt like I finally learned how to walk and that it was the beginning of my journey towards walking always better and better!

    4) Being inexperienced as a heterosexual female is not a virtue but an obstacle.
    Especially the older you get, the more scared you are, the more you will make a huge deal out of it and ultimately you'll be too intimidated to try and flirt because you just feel vulnerable. Maybe it's not the case for everyone (I wish not), but for me, leaving religion and realising that I had wasted 23 years of my life avoiding sex at all costs and keeping myself "pure" caused me to be so frustrated and angry. I felt like I was behind everyone and had no idea how to do anything, not even properly kiss a guy, let alone sex.

    5) Once you start flirting with someone or a relationship, things can go suuuper fast if you're both up for it.

    Some inexperienced people need to wait 6 months, others dive in very quickly. As long as everyone ok with what is happening, there is no harm in going fast. It can be a bit overwhelming, but when hormones are raging and catching up on those wasted years you can be very motivated to learn fast xD

    6) If a man has sex with a woman he doesn't dehumanise her and reduce her to an object.
    At least not if he's a decent human being! In the past I saw sex as something that objectifies you as a woman and degrades you. Actually, you can have wild pornographic sex with a guy and then cuddle softly and fall asleep in each others arms. Sexual attraction happens in every gender and isn't mutually exclusive with respect.

    7) Being naked is also no big deal.
    When you're with a person you know finds you attractive and who looks at you with hypnotised eyes even in the morning when you just got up. When you're with someone who likes your hair when it's a wild mess and your big butt. No reasons to be self-conscious. And even without that, being naked is just normal and liberating, we should be naked more often.

    8 ) There is no point in saying "I will NEVER do XYZ".

    I used to have clear ideas about what I would find acceptable or not. Actually, there is no harm in trying, chances are you'll actually like a lot of the stuff you said you'll never do.

    9) Decent humans will not shame you for not going all the way just because flirting happened.
    I had this strange idea that if I were to allow a guy to flirt with me, that would mean I'd have to allow him everything. Turned out you decide where it goes. Just wanna make out? Just make out. Just wanna hug? Just hug. Decent people wait for every single move to be clearly reciprocated and are cool with it not going further.

    10) "You will BLEED the first time!!", my ass... how come nobody tells you about UTIs?!!

    Yes some people bleed. I didn't, but instead I got 3 UTIs in a row Cry Girls, go pee before and after sex, drink at least 2L fluids and take a D-mannose supplement! Our urethras may really not appreciate suddenly having new bacteria crawling around...


    That would be the main things.
    Bottom line: All these years it was such a huge deal in my head when in fact it's just normal and beautiful, sometimes funny, sometimes awkward, sometimes super hot or awfully romantic. There is so much to try and discover and finally owning your own sexually feels absolutely fantastic!

    What are your thoughts and experiences?
  • What I learned about sex (post-apostasy)
     Reply #1 - December 31, 2015, 04:16 AM

    I was never taught sex was bad. Being raised catholic this post could of been written by my mum, but leaving the religion before I was born, though engrained into her she did her best to not pass it on to her own children, and, despite sometimes feeling very, very uncomfortable, managed to be honest and balanced.

    It's obviously a different experience on my end having never been raised with the idea sex and sexuality is somehow taboo. I think a lot of the anxiety isn't just about sex itself but what kind of person it makes you if you were raised with this or that flavour of shame culture.

    Realising that sex isn't a bad thing and that most people are decent enough to respect your wishes is a very freeing thing. Our sexuality is a natural part of our humanity and it belongs to us. Explore it, taste it, experience this most primal and beautiful aspect of life. It can also be freeing not only when it comes to sex, but simply by realising sex doesn't even have to be a factor. That's another realisation right there. Sex isn't always an issue. That in itself is another realisation that hits you, that a man and a woman can form bonds, spent time with each other and have a consensual, mutually appreciated sexual relationship, or that a man and a woman can form bonds, spent time with each other and have sex not be an issue. You can be friends, you can be best friends, you can sleep in each other's beds and have nothing happen. Both are extremely liberating.

    Your sexuality is yours. You own it. And there's absolutely noting wrong with it.

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • What I learned about sex (post-apostasy)
     Reply #2 - December 31, 2015, 09:32 AM

    Some good points you brought up.

    I learned (pre-apostasy) that family and friends are not going to notice some magical change in you and start thinking you are or treating you like something filthy Tongue. Also that 22 years of abstinence meant a lot of bottled up frustration.

    I still have a mild fear of STDs and pregnancy, which used to be much worse. But that's what two decades of brainwashing does.
  • What I learned about sex (post-apostasy)
     Reply #3 - December 31, 2015, 10:13 AM

    I wish I hadn't been affected so much by the impurity-slut-shaming-virginity-obsession culture I was surrounded by growing up. I wish I could go back to myself when I was 13 years old and say; hey, virginity means nothing, don't idealize it. Your sexuality is not shameful.

    I got into an arranged marriage at 19, virgin of course, and almost a decade later I just think that I wasted so much of my precious youth I'll never have back on useless things that have given me nothing positive in return. Right now I sound a lot more bitter than I actually am  grin12

    "The healthiest people I know are those who are the first to label themselves fucked up." - three
  • What I learned about sex (post-apostasy)
     Reply #4 - December 31, 2015, 01:50 PM

    Quod Sum Eris: I may have forgotten an important nuance: sex = magical and wonderful if married, sex = shameful and the worst thing EVAR if outside of marriage. Maybe the term fornication is more adapted. Fornication is actually wonderful and fun Cheesy

    AGirlWithDoubts: STI and pregnancy fear, oh that I still have O.o Luckily my boyfriend got tested a week after we started having (protected) sex so I am not scared of STIs at the moment. Pregnancy is a whole other thing, I am scared I'll be among the 1% who get pregnant on the pill and also the 1% that will test negative in home a pregnancy tests despite a positive and only realise it when it's too late for an abortion...

    Cornflower: I have heard so many people who said they regretted waiting until marriage... on the other side you have all the religious leaders (some Christian sects too) who idealise that and say that it's the only way and only that way sex will be good and not the most shameful horrible thing ever that will destroy and dishonor your family.

    My father came to Europe to marry my european mother, so he left his family and since then he feels isolated. That caused him to very early on put a lot of pressure on his only daughter (me) to respect the traditions and religion of his parents and never dishonor them. So basically I stopped myself from even going near sex by thinking "what would my father think", which is really fucked up...
    Thing is, I am certain he did nothing in a traditional islamic way either, but I am supposed to because I am the only person of his blood in Europe and of his mother's blood so I have to be pure and not turn into a "decadent european". Well too late, I am an Atheist who fornicates with her european boyfriend. I also like beer and bacon, GAAASP!

    I wish there was a medicine against brainwashing, my father is literally torturing himself for the smallest things I don't do like he wants (like move away for my master thesis or an internship). It makes me so angry that a screwed up tribal mentality and a belief in a jealous sky patriarch made its way into his brain so much that he suffers and can't just enjoy the only life he has. I know there is nothing I can do except live my life the best I can, but still it angers me.
  • What I learned about sex (post-apostasy)
     Reply #5 - December 31, 2015, 02:21 PM

    What I learned is that I am so messed up from years and years of the madonna/whore complex, that I no longer desire sex since I don't have the confidence to engage in it without feeling shamed, not without that elusive love thing attached to it, and love......well it never found me when I was open to it, and it definitely won't now that I am closed to it. 

    I am in a long term relationship with myself and with weed.  It's a beautiful pairing. 

    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • What I learned about sex (post-apostasy)
     Reply #6 - December 31, 2015, 02:24 PM

    Hey Berbs!  hugs
  • What I learned about sex (post-apostasy)
     Reply #7 - December 31, 2015, 02:27 PM

    Hey Happy.  hugs


    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • What I learned about sex (post-apostasy)
     Reply #8 - December 31, 2015, 02:39 PM

    @Feryel the first time I got a UTI I was "late" as a result of it. I automatically jumped to the conclusion that I must be pregnant and that Allah was punishing me for committing a major sin (was still a doubting Muslim at the time Tongue). After burning myself out crying and making drastic plans in my head the doctor prescribed some pills and a cream to get rid of it and suddenly it was over Grin

    Unfortunately the shame-purity concept is something that is deeply embedded in a lot of cultures. For someone like your dad who may have always seen the world a certain way, it would take very long time to break out of that mentality. I know it can be frustrating; my parents converted after growing up in the West/other more liberal cultures and have been brainwashed the same way to an extent.

    I see nothing "precious" or "valuable" about virginity, it means nothing. It's pretty twisted to measure a human's worth with whether they've had sex or not. God must be very petty if he spends so much time policing what people do with their bodies.
  • What I learned about sex (post-apostasy)
     Reply #9 - December 31, 2015, 02:41 PM

    I think something like 70% of Islam is based on sexual guilt and frustration.
  • What I learned about sex (post-apostasy)
     Reply #10 - December 31, 2015, 02:46 PM

    70% wouldn't be an exaggeration, why there is so much focus I am not sure. Methinks Allah is a pervert.
  • What I learned about sex (post-apostasy)
     Reply #11 - December 31, 2015, 02:50 PM

    No. It’s that sex is such a natural, normal human thing that if you can regulate it, you can control people.
  • What I learned about sex (post-apostasy)
     Reply #12 - December 31, 2015, 02:52 PM

    Good point  Afro
  • What I learned about sex (post-apostasy)
     Reply #13 - December 31, 2015, 03:45 PM

    Hold on! Are you arguing Islam is about social control?  Can't be!

    When you are a Bear of Very Little Brain, and you Think of Things, you find sometimes that a Thing which seemed very Thingish inside you is quite different when it gets out into the open and has other people looking at it.


    A.A. Milne,

    "We cannot slaughter each other out of the human impasse"
  • What I learned about sex (post-apostasy)
     Reply #14 - December 31, 2015, 04:05 PM

    No. It’s that sex is such a natural, normal human thing that if you can regulate it, you can control people.

     well If you can regulate and control sex and sexual feelings of every species then you can control whole planet..  ALL ANIMALS OF THE PLANET  that includes human beings..

    Life Cycle of Salmon is a perfect example what species do for sex and survival of species  

     https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5DqjsWsY8-g

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • What I learned about sex (post-apostasy)
     Reply #15 - December 31, 2015, 05:35 PM

    That makes me think of the amazing book that Dr. Darrel Ray wrote, "Sex and God". He really analyses thoroughly the influence religion at large had and still has on human sexuality and that what is really natural nowhere resembles the one-size-fits-all model that religions propose (one partner for life, sex within marriage, only certain acts allowed, reproductive sex, etc). I would highly recommend this book if you haven't read it already, after reading it so many things make sense.

    Also it makes me like bonobos, these cousins of ours are chill  grin12
  • What I learned about sex (post-apostasy)
     Reply #16 - December 31, 2015, 05:39 PM

    Bonobos know what they're doing.

    "The healthiest people I know are those who are the first to label themselves fucked up." - three
  • What I learned about sex (post-apostasy)
     Reply #17 - December 31, 2015, 06:18 PM

    Quote
    ...............  arranged marriage at 19, ..........


    ............ magical and wonderful if married, ...........if outside of marriage..............

    ........ waiting until marriage........

    My father came to Europe to marry my european mother, ...........


    Dr. Darrel Ray wrote, "Sex and God".

    sex within marriage, ............


    That guy  Darrel Ray  must be an atheist .. he writes all sorts of  sex books..
    "Sex and God".
    "Sex and Secularism"
      Sex and Religion
    Sex & X
    Sex and Y
    Sex and Z..........


    but feryel  greetings .. you have have used that word "Marriage" many times in this folder... Let me tell you a real story.. that will knock your sex to heavens..

    Husband's Love for his Wife



    It was a busy morning at the clinic, about 8:30, when an elderly gentleman in his 80's arrived to have stitches removed from his thumb. He said he was in a hurry as he had an appointment at 9:00 am.

    I took his vital signs and had him take a seat, knowing it would be over an hour before someone would to able to see him. I saw him looking at his watch and decided, since I was not busy with another patient, I would evaluate his wound.

    On exam, it was well healed, so I talked to one of the doctors, got the needed supplies to remove his sutures and redress his wound. While taking care of his wound, I asked him if he had another doctor's appointment this morning, as he was in such a hurry.

    The gentleman told me no, that he needed to go to the nursing home to eat breakfast with his wife. I inquired as to her health.



    Quote
    As we talked, I asked if she would be upset if he was a bit late. He replied that she no longer knew who he was, that she had not recognized him in three years now.

    I was surprised, and asked him, “And you still go every morning, even though she doesn't know who you are?” He smiled as he patted my hand and said:

    “She doesn't know me,

    but I still know who she is."

    I had to hold back tears as he left, I had goose bumps on my arm, and thought



    My wish for  all of the girl of this forum is they  should get such husbands... They deserve such husbands..

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • What I learned about sex (post-apostasy)
     Reply #18 - December 31, 2015, 08:04 PM

    Yeah I'm not really into the whole marriage thing at the moment. Unless you want all your kids to have the same name, or your partner works a risky job where he might die, I see no real point in signing a binding contract. Or I am not ready for hardcore romance yet, donno.
  • What I learned about sex (post-apostasy)
     Reply #19 - December 31, 2015, 08:05 PM

    Marriage and romance are two separate things.
  • What I learned about sex (post-apostasy)
     Reply #20 - December 31, 2015, 08:18 PM

    As Muslims we were fed the idea that true romance can only come out of a marriage, where you did not get to know your partner prior to the marriage except by asking some vital questions in the presence of a chaperon.

    As ex-Muslims, some of us are well aware how arranged marriages are usually miserable.

    Unfortunately enough, some of us still think that you can only find true romance if you marry someone Grin

    The only reason I'd consider marriage, and I'm almost not even kidding here Grin, would be so I could wear a beautiful gown.

    Damn, someone really needs to take me out somewhere so I can wear a beautiful dress without looking misplaced. 

    "The healthiest people I know are those who are the first to label themselves fucked up." - three
  • What I learned about sex (post-apostasy)
     Reply #21 - December 31, 2015, 09:22 PM

    Try a Renaissance fair, you can wear overly fabulous gowns there, they are also super expensive  Cheesy

    If I ever were to get married, i'd wear BLACK. And have metal band. In a castle. And a dragon.
  • What I learned about sex (post-apostasy)
     Reply #22 - January 01, 2016, 12:29 AM

    Sex can lead to procreation. It's also one of the most powerful human drives on the planet. It also is rather unlikely to happen while you're unemployed living in your parents' home with a decent amount of responsibilities and low self-esteem.

    how fuck works without shit??


    Let's Play Chess!

    harakaat, friend, RIP
  • What I learned about sex (post-apostasy)
     Reply #23 - January 01, 2016, 12:31 AM

    It also MAY be worth it to get married so you can have sex. I'm not sure on this one though.

    how fuck works without shit??


    Let's Play Chess!

    harakaat, friend, RIP
  • What I learned about sex (post-apostasy)
     Reply #24 - January 01, 2016, 01:34 AM

    It'd say it's better not committing the rest of your life to a person you don't know sexually. Whether we want it or not, it is an essential element to a healthy and good relationship so it's important to be sexually compatible, i.e. having similar sex drives (if you want sex maximum once a week and your partner every 2 days or every day, there will be problems), similar interest in experimenting, types of sex (are you vanilla, kinky, vanilla but open to some kink), are you exclusive or open, etc.

    All that stuff is indeed difficult to experience when not having your own private space and own life.. :(

    When I was 19-20, I was in a non-sexual, strictly chaste relationship with a guy and I believed that we would get married, so that I can move out from my parents' house and have sex the halal way. In the end it didn't work out at all because he started doubting and slowly turned to atheism while aggressively criticizing my beliefs and even trying to blackmail me into having sex. I didn't give in so we broke up. I am glad I didn't have the opportunity to make a huge mistake by marrying the first best guy who was ok with being my boyfriend at the time and basically ruin my life by getting blindly into a marriage at such a young age.
  • What I learned about sex (post-apostasy)
     Reply #25 - January 01, 2016, 03:02 AM

    I am glad the OP put this up here. It is terribly hard for people who have waited for marriage and then feel all this pressure -and I think she made some very good points.
    I hope everyone looking for good advice checks it out.
    Because what she said is a far better foundation for a sex life than the halal/haram formula.
    Also I think it is important that people strive to reach a point where it is okay to be alone, not in a relationship, whether they are sexually active or not.
    Because knowing yourself and who you are is really important for making decisions. If you spend your life seeing yourself as a reflection in someone else´s eyes you never gain a proper sense of self.
    Without a clear sense of who you are it is hard to find your way.

    Don't let Hitler have the street.
  • What I learned about sex (post-apostasy)
     Reply #26 - January 01, 2016, 03:03 AM

    Try a Renaissance fair, you can wear overly fabulous gowns there, they are also super expensive  Cheesy

    If I ever were to get married, i'd wear BLACK. And have metal band. In a castle. And a dragon.


    I just hope you invite me.

    Don't let Hitler have the street.
  • What I learned about sex (post-apostasy)
     Reply #27 - January 01, 2016, 06:53 AM

    If I ever were to get married, i'd wear BLACK. And have metal band. In a castle. And a dragon.


    You been peaking in my diary?

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • What I learned about sex (post-apostasy)
     Reply #28 - January 01, 2016, 01:38 PM

    It'd say it's better not committing the rest of your life to a person you don't know sexually. Whether we want it or not, it is an essential element to a healthy and good relationship so it's important to be sexually compatible, i.e. having similar sex drives (if you want sex maximum once a week and your partner every 2 days or every day, there will be problems), similar interest in experimenting, types of sex (are you vanilla, kinky, vanilla but open to some kink), are you exclusive or open, etc.


    Who the fuck said anything about the rest of people's lives? I said marriage, not any of that stuff. If it doesn't work out sexually, and it's important enough to break off the marriage then that's what someone ought to do. Marriage isn't some sort of holy thing where people shouldn't be willing to take the risk if it's necessary for them to be happy.

    how fuck works without shit??


    Let's Play Chess!

    harakaat, friend, RIP
  • What I learned about sex (post-apostasy)
     Reply #29 - January 01, 2016, 01:39 PM

    There are two kinds of heterosexual men on this planet, as far as I can tell:

    1. Blessed
    2. Those that engage in their life's work in some form or another in pursuit of sex

    how fuck works without shit??


    Let's Play Chess!

    harakaat, friend, RIP
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