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 Topic: Exmuslim/Muslim?

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  • Exmuslim/Muslim?
     OP - November 30, 2015, 12:19 AM

    Hello guys I would like to start off with that I'm not really good with explaining things properly So I might miss some crucial details.  So I might make annother introduction (hopefully not because I want to do everything in one gulp).  Also please excuse my grammar I make alot of mistakes even after rereading my wrting. So before I start my story I want to say that I'm a muslim, but not 100% muslim. I mean I feel like sometimes Islam is right and sometimes it is wrong.

    Anyways my journey towards questioning my faith came with this forum. I was intriged to see many ex muslims and thought that muslims who left Islam were fake since I saw many videos posted like that in youtube. I still think they are fake, although only a very few of them. The recent ones seems pretty real to me.  Anyways I started to doubt my faith like around one year ago? It came down to hell first as in why would god put people in hell, espeically forever for "sins" like not praying or even worshipping another "god" besides him? This thing was in the back of my subconcious for some time, but I never even gave like 30 seconds of thought to it lol. Soon I started to think about this question and then I looked up online to see if anyone had the same opinion. It was on reddit, and what he said about this topic really catched my attention. He said that if a man commited crimes for 120 years, should he be punished for an eternity? I was like in my head WOW. There was actually someone who thought the same thing as me!  I realized that what he said sounds true and it kinda made me happy. So I looked for other "errors" in Islam (note I am putting quotes because I'm still undecided if Islam is true or not) and I found a couple such as

    Men can have 4 wives but women cannot -  I heard that during wars in the 600's A.D women are left alone when men were fighting. And the "only" way to take care of the kids, do the laundry, clean the house, etc was to get help from your husband's wives. And I think to myself (song pun intended) that why not get help from the neighbor's wives you know? I mean that woulf be A LOT better than sharing the bed with three other wives.


    Beating women lightly - Ya like that's going to help her listen to you pfft, also she's not a dog or an animal which reminds me....


    Not having dogs as pets - Most of the dog owners are not poisoned with saliva or anything like that. Yes dogs are more prone to attack (probably they have snouts) but that doesn't happen all the time.


    Women wear hijabs - I heard that nowhere in the quran mentions that women have to cover their hair. Also WHY?? If I can show my hair, you guessed it I'm a guy Smiley then why can't a girl show their hair? Was the quran verse talking about the head?? So is it suppose to be like a kuffi (don't know if it's kuffi or tuffi) or like a yamacha? Too confusing.


    Can't date and not have sex before marriage - Marriage is the same thing as long time relationships between a bf/gf except that for marriage you need to sign a contract.


    Little things like not plucking eyebrow, not drawing animated things, eating haram food. - I really wanted to draw anime and make fan made comic books one day and maybe post it up online so everyone could see it OR make a board game with orgami human/orgre/dragon figures, but NOPE. Those are haram. Plucking eyebrows is kind of a stress for me because I always have to shave my unibrow to make my eyebrows look better, and even shave some of my left and right eyebrows so that my unibrow won't grow back for awhile (I keep shaving it though. It's pretty annoying).


    Men get more power than women - I'm pretty sure this is self explanatory with the court case and such. Although I do think that the wife keeping all of her income to herself is a good thing, but there needs to be more of that stuff in order to have better rights.


    The solar system - I recently heard that (from yasir qadhi) there may be aliens in outerspace. It was mentioned in the quran a couple of times that god has creations between the heavens and the earth. I'm GUESSING they're jinns?
    Also one other thing. Why does god test like .001 % of the whole universe? I mean it's pretty weird.


    OK so those, and many other things were and many more things, which I can't really think of the top of my head now, are basically the reason why I have doubts.


    Reasons why I "believe?" in Islam


    I get "signs" from Allah - This is a HUGE one. Because my mom and my sister (my dad is kind of slow in religion. He prays and fast but he doesn't really dua much) are really religious. Both of them strongly believe that black magic can ruin your life like crazy. I believe that too but not to their extent. My mom reads the quran and duas like 4 hours a day, every morning. My sister reads the quran a lot and duas a lot too, though she can't do too much due to education. And,here's weird part. They get dreams, or some feelings of what's happening or what might  happen in the near future (for the latter they get this feeling less thanthe first one.)  And I think it's just REALLY crazy, because it just comes true. My mom and sister always tells me to recite duas and stuff. I use to recite them when I goto school. Now I only recite them if I feel afraid or when I desperately need something. Here's another weird part. When I go to the train for school and if the train stops, and I recite ayatul kursi a couple of times, the train would start moving. If I don't recite the dua, the train won't move until like15 or 20 minutes later and then I arrive to school super late. Also when I didn't study for a test I usally say laillah illal la when getting back to the test and I get around the grade that I wanted. I also say this when I need help in stuff and sometimes I get what I need. Anyways thats weird because I'm a VERY lazy student which reminds me when i entered college. Never been lazier in my whole life, and I kind of blame my mom for too much of overprotection. She's a really sweet mother, but half the times she goes overboard with protecting me and stuff. My sister's like that too, but she's more understanding than my mother. 

    I wanna share a few more "signs" that I get before I'm done. BTW I'm SUPER sorry that this post is mega long but I'm almost finished.

    One "sign" that freaked me out, like probably the most, are the jinns. So I'm a 20 guy, with no gf/wife, so I usually masturbate in the bathroom. When I go to sleep at the end of the day I feel something crawling on my body  .As soon as  I touch the part of my body that I feel being "crawled on", I feel that shivers down my spine kind of feeling. If I don't touch it, or rather any part of my bofy at that time, the "crawling" seems to grow bigger and bigger, as if someone's actually on top of me or sleeping right next to me! As usual this scares me like heck so I recite the three quls, spit into my hand three times, and run through my body with my hands. As soon as I do that the crawling is gone. If I don't do this I usually get a nightmare, where someone or something is hurting me. And it feels SO real!! The funny thing is that when I don't masturbate none of this "crawling" stuff happens to me. Heck half the times I'm done relieveing myself in the bathroom, I feel something go onto my back. I'm guessing these crawling things are the jinns.

    One last thing why I "believe" Islam may be real. I always wondered how the solar system was made and how the sun was not too far awway, or too close to us, and and how the earth is moving nicely around the sun while having the moon control it's weather. I wonder if god is true because of this. But then again, I'm not for sure.

    Backtracking, I have more "signs" like these but I can't really list them all. In the end I have a great desire for Islam to be fake than real, because then I would truly feel like a big burden would be lifted off my shoulders. Either that OR no more "signs" coming to me anymore.  I want to leave Islam but I also want to stick to it. I honeslty dont know what to do. So what do you guys think? Also did you ever get like "signs" like mine or something different, and if you did did you think of it as a  coincedence? I just want to know if there are "muslims" like me that are struggling on the decision to leave the belief or not.

    Anyways peace and it was nice talking to you guys.










  • Exmuslim/Muslim?
     Reply #1 - November 30, 2015, 12:42 AM

    Welcome to the forum  parrot

    And don't be afraid to ever express what you truly feel. I can relate and many others can relate.

    We go through this muslim phase because it is the only way of life given to us at first. Welcome to liberated thinking. dance

    It was hard for me to leave, because I looked at Allah as a parent figure watching over me. I never grew up with parents to really express their love to me, so I thought the Quran and Hadith were my companions in life.

    "If you don't like your religion's fundamentalists, then maybe there's something wrong with your religion's fundamentals."
    "Demanding blind respect but not offering any respect in reciprocation is laughable."
    "Let all the people in all the worlds be in peace."
  • Exmuslim/Muslim?
     Reply #2 - November 30, 2015, 01:58 AM

    Welcome! parrot

    I can tell you with certainty that superstition happens in every religion, every culture, and even among atheists. Same with belief in the supernatural or supernatural beings. It is not specific to Islam.

    Precognition is also not a good indication of proof, as it occurs in all cultures- though some more than others.

    I would suggest that you keep reading. What you believe or not will come from within you. It is a journey. You never have to decide. If you do decide, you can change your mind. Be yourself. Believe what you believe, and never stop questioning.

    Don't let Hitler have the street.
  • Exmuslim/Muslim?
     Reply #3 - November 30, 2015, 02:40 AM

    As soon as  I touch the part of my body that I feel being "crawled on", I feel that shivers down my spine kind of feeling. If I don't touch it, or rather any part of my bofy at that time, the "crawling" seems to grow bigger and bigger, as if someone's actually on top of me or sleeping right next to me! As usual this scares me like heck so I recite the three quls, spit into my hand three times, and run through my body with my hands. As soon as I do that the crawling is gone. If I don't do this I usually get a nightmare, where someone or something is hurting me. And it feels SO real!! The funny thing is that when I don't masturbate none of this "crawling" stuff happens to me. Heck half the times I'm done relieveing myself in the bathroom, I feel something go onto my back. I'm guessing these crawling things are the jinns.


    I used to perform Ruqya with one of the few Imams that had over 20 years experience. My non-muslim friends ask me if I still believe in it as an ex-muslim agnostic atheist. I could never give a clear answer because I just don't know myself.

    I can't affirm or negate ALL the experiences Muslims have with "Jinn" or what they believe.. But I do know that Christians go through a very similar experience. Heck, we'd even perform exorcisms on some Christians and they would feel better after we recited the Qur'an.

    I do know that some of them were just faking it for attention looking back at it now. They would tell us their backstories about the family.. And there was always some drama involved..

    It would shame me if ALL of the experiences were completely faked because I tackled and handled some rough situations in which people got very aggressive and acted childish. I was told Jinn were very childish.

    I however have seen some videos explaining that people go through "Psychic attacks" and they can feel very real.

    I don't believe in the supernatural, especially the narrative on Jinn by Islam..

    I just wonder why people go through stuff that is so severe.

    I myself have never felt the need to recite the 3 Quls, spit, and wipe my body. I just did it because everyone else did it.

    We had cases where we had to revisit people multiple times, and they spend lots of money to doctors to check the problem..

    I just wonder.. If it was fake, why go through all this hassle? So that's why I kind of leave the subject alone. But I can guarantee you that it has to be some psychological problem. Wis Was (Whispers) etc. I just think it's a mental thing.


    "If you don't like your religion's fundamentalists, then maybe there's something wrong with your religion's fundamentals."
    "Demanding blind respect but not offering any respect in reciprocation is laughable."
    "Let all the people in all the worlds be in peace."
  • Exmuslim/Muslim?
     Reply #4 - November 30, 2015, 10:28 AM

     parrot

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Exmuslim/Muslim?
     Reply #5 - November 30, 2015, 02:28 PM

    Welcome to the forum Coolester, have a rabbit!  bunny

    I must say, the part about your experience with Jinn is something I found rather troubling. Have you ever talked to someone who could help you with this?

    how fuck works without shit??


    Let's Play Chess!

    harakaat, friend, RIP
  • Exmuslim/Muslim?
     Reply #6 - November 30, 2015, 11:00 PM

    Welcome  parrot
  • Exmuslim/Muslim?
     Reply #7 - December 08, 2015, 03:36 PM

    This whole jinn story is just as BS as religion. When I was still a muslim I used to always get freaked out when thinking or talking too much about jinns and sometimes feel as though I am being watched but from the moment I stopped believing in fairy tales I have not had a single time when I felt a jinn is on me or watching me. This just proves to me that all of it is psychological and because we believe it, it affects us.

    I have been for ruqya n to so many moulanas but more for the sake of my family since after the first moulana I realized they just BS u n make u feel scared n they the only ones who can help u. It never helped me with my sickness which I always believed was physical just as the drs told me n not some moulana tellin me u have very bad black magic done to u n my family always used to tell me u have to believe it’s going to work for it to work n I always replied that’s BS my belief has nothing to do with it.

    For your nightmares, u might have sleep apnea. It is when u don’t breath too well when u sleeping you wake up but your brain has already released chemicals to paralyse you so u don’t act out your dreams so when u wake u can’t move for a little while. I have sleep apnea n used to think it was a jinn wanting to hurt me before I read up about sleep apnea n I used to pray my quls n what do u know I believed it would help me with the (imaginary) jinn so it did but actually just waiting a couple mins n u come back to normal, I don’t pray anymore when it happens. Another thing about this jinn sitting on u n choking u, for muslims it is jinns, for Christians it is demons n now for the modern age they see aliens. Another reason why I believe it is all psychological.

    Also why do you think that the only supernatural beings are jinns and not supernatural beings like fairies from places other than arabia where mo was from?

     

  • Exmuslim/Muslim?
     Reply #8 - December 08, 2015, 03:48 PM

    mahomedyusuf,

    "first moulana I realized they just BS u n make u feel scared n they the only ones who can help u. It never helped me with my sickness which I always believed was physical just as the drs told me n not some moulana tellin me u have very bad black magic done to u n my family always used to tell me u have to believe it’s going to work for it"

    Just out of curiosity, did your family pay any of these moulanas? Maybe they would pay for "gas and travel?"

    Because I'm assuming this is how they make money.

    "If you don't like your religion's fundamentalists, then maybe there's something wrong with your religion's fundamentals."
    "Demanding blind respect but not offering any respect in reciprocation is laughable."
    "Let all the people in all the worlds be in peace."
  • Exmuslim/Muslim?
     Reply #9 - December 08, 2015, 03:55 PM

    Yes either u give them a donation, they have a fee, or they so good they don't charge u anything but then sell u some shit overpriced herbal meds.

    I've never been comfortable with these moulanas with so called gifts n always voiced my opinion to my family but just went along with it so they would stop saying if u go to a moulana u will get better. Time n time again I used to say I will never go to another one but there always was a story this one helped so n so n u have to at least try. Once we finished I would always complain n show them they just BS. One good thing that came out of it is my mother doesn't believe these moulanas BS anymore  Smiley
  • Exmuslim/Muslim?
     Reply #10 - December 08, 2015, 04:15 PM

    I used to be the moulana's "assistant." So that's why I asked.  Cheesy

    I used to go around throughout the USA to perform "ruqya." And yeah we'd just say, "as long as you pay for our travel" but they end up giving us much more anyway.

    I've come across some smart guys and kids such as yourself who thought it was all BS but I could tell they didn't want to say anything in front of their parents.

    I remember coming across a poor handicapped girl who was so embarrassed that we were at the house about to perform ruqya on her. She snuck up to her room and avoided us, and the Imam I was with said, "You see that!? It's because of the jinn in her."

    On every little thing the Imam would say, "yep she's got black magic."

    For example the parents would say, "She doesn't get along with anyone at school"
    Imam would say, "Yep that's a sign of black magic."

    It was so ridiculous that I was even embarrassed to say anything as an assistant. I questioned my Imam a few times and asked, "Are you sure this is black magic" or "Are you sure it's Jinn?" And he would sometimes look angry at me.  Cheesy

    "If you don't like your religion's fundamentalists, then maybe there's something wrong with your religion's fundamentals."
    "Demanding blind respect but not offering any respect in reciprocation is laughable."
    "Let all the people in all the worlds be in peace."
  • Exmuslim/Muslim?
     Reply #11 - December 08, 2015, 06:20 PM

    hi there  parrot Welcome to this wonderful world .


    you are not too far to get your answers, everyone have had the same phase like you before being an atheist or non believer, these are the early stages to being an atheist or agnostic i hope you will find your way soon...just keep reading to find the answers of your questions, here in this platform there are so many helpful members who will definitely show you the right path or you might get the person with similar of your thoughts..


    thnx
    qudsia iqbal

    Gods don't kill people, people with Gods kill people.
  • Exmuslim/Muslim?
     Reply #12 - December 23, 2015, 02:35 PM

    @mahomedyusuf:

    Hello I don't think it's because of sleep apnea, because I don't feel those "I am awake, but I can't move" phases when I sleep. Also I FEEL the "jinns" or something on me when I'm awake on my bed, or sometimes when I go to the bathroom in the middle of the night. It's like something was on top of me. Anyways I usually feel it on my back, and whenever I touch my back, I get this crazy goosbimp, shivering thing kind of feeling. I usually get nightmares after this whenever I go to sleep. Do you know what's the cause of all this?

    One more question. When I signed up for this forum, I either had to be an ex-muslim or a new user. I chose ex-muslim because I thought it was fitting for me at that time. Now I'm thinking otherwise.  Anyways do you know how to remove that ex muslim label off my account? Thanks
  • Exmuslim/Muslim?
     Reply #13 - December 24, 2015, 01:20 AM

    You can PM a mod, but obviously they have lives and might not see it. Might be best to ask here: http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?board=15.0

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Exmuslim/Muslim?
     Reply #14 - December 24, 2015, 04:42 AM

    Honestly, "signs" are superstitions. I would really recommend you to study mental illness spectrum, and people who are hypochondriac / hallucinating.

    I was hypochondriac, and I would swear up and down that I had all these symptoms. Since I was 8. I had gone to multiple specialists, had my head scanned, went to ophthalmologist, obgyn, etc over the smallest bullshit that my head cooked up. Each time, I was convinced that I had severe illness. I had headache, pain, etc that never went away.

    After a while, now at 25 I realized that once I stopped worrying and interpreting "signs" all of those things disappear. I'm still alive, I have regular health check every year and I'm healthy.

    I don't have the link now, but from theist > atheist, many people had those "signs". I read a confession of an ex-hindu in reddit, basically he was a devout hindu before because he would see khrisna when he meditate/read mantra. As it turns out, he was imagining everything =|

    The more you believe in something, the more it feels real to you. It's insane, but don't get trapped in and try to ignore it, see if it disappears. Distract yourself and try to think 100% rationally.
  • Exmuslim/Muslim?
     Reply #15 - December 24, 2015, 04:52 AM

    I don't believe everything Teal Swan says, but it may be helpful for those encountering Panic Attacks and Severe Anxiety attacks. She has a whole series and I think she mentions those who believe it's a religious thing to encounter these feelings.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y5PWwTv-FEM

    "If you don't like your religion's fundamentalists, then maybe there's something wrong with your religion's fundamentals."
    "Demanding blind respect but not offering any respect in reciprocation is laughable."
    "Let all the people in all the worlds be in peace."
  • Exmuslim/Muslim?
     Reply #16 - December 28, 2015, 01:52 AM

    Hi Coolester

    I used to also feel as though a jinn was touching or watching me at night when alone especially when going to the bathroom. Used to freak me out some nights I couldn't sleep until sunrise coz every time I would close my eyes I would feel eyes or something on me.

    If they really existed as Islam says then my disbelief now wouldn't matter to them affecting me. But now I don't have any problems sleeping coz what doesn't exist can't affect me.

    U seem to see through most of the bs of Islam n ill treatment of women. Keep researching n check sahih hadith n the quran bout sex slaves, sun setting in mud, sun moving around the earth, earth being flat, story of mo's marriage to his daughter in law zainub, marriage to 6yr old Aisha n having sex with her at 9yrs when he was over 50, satanic verses, the abrogated verses (god created the quran in heaven before creation but he changes it so many times when revealing it to mo). These are all major contradictions to islam being the true religion n word of God rather a 7th century Arab man who was not a prophet n committed many crimes against humanity. There's many links on this website for them n u can confirm it from Islamic sources.

    When I was a Muslim, I didn't know most of this or refused to believe it since I mostly read bout it from non-muslims which I dismissed straight away or when I heard it from Muslims I just believed it not to be sahih. The I came across the abrogated verses which was in the quran so there was no denying the truth in it if I was to believe the quran as the word of god. This broke my faith but I still held on to islam for almost 2 more years n tried my best to put it in the back of my head while praying to god to grant me hidayat since he alone leads people to the right path or astray.

    What made me finally realise religion is bs was the question of WHY. Why would God let babies suffer? Why would God drown children n innocents to start the world new? Or other countless innocents as collective punishment? Why would God allow evil to prevail? Why would God make the liars n thieves go far while the nice guy suffers? Why would God let so much bad happen then I realised God doesn't care what happens on one planet since the universe is so big he probably just created us to live n don't hurt other living things unnecessarily (we need to eat).

    The moment it hit me that religion was a lie my mind opened up n I started to really open my mind to every idea, religion really does hamper our progress coz it limits so much thinking. I am now an athiest now though I hope I'm wrong n God does exist but I know for sure God didn't send any messenger to us.

    About your one last thing that Islam may be real. I look at it as proving God doesn't exist. Think of how big the universe is, we have solar systems which are destructive, a lot of them are destructive but ours is not. Earth is in the goldi locks zone little bit this way or that way n earth can't support life.

    The universe is massive it is described as having about "10 billion galaxies in the observable universe! The number of stars in a galaxy varies, but assuming an average of 100 billion stars per galaxy means that there are about 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 (that's 1 billion trillion) stars in the observable universe!"

    With so many chances there's bound to be a few planets in the goldi locks zone.

    I hope u see the truth n completely leave religion n all its bs
  • Exmuslim/Muslim?
     Reply #17 - January 02, 2016, 09:29 PM

    @Helaine:

    Hello. I doubt I have any of those symptoms but I can't really put off the signs of god yet, even though I really want to. My sister and my mom makes a lot of duas and most of those duas get accepted too. And whenever their not accepted they get dreams that tell them they're doing something wrong or they should do this or that,etc. I don't know I honestly want to get out of the religion so I can feel free. The fact that I can't do stuff like dating, drawing something animated (I really don't know why this is sin, much less a major sin), having a dog as pet, and not for hunting, and other things angers me a bi
  • Exmuslim/Muslim?
     Reply #18 - January 03, 2016, 08:16 AM

    Quote
    Hello. I doubt I have any of those symptoms but I can't really put off the signs of god yet, even though I really want to. My sister and my mom makes a lot of duas and most of those duas get accepted too. And whenever their not accepted they get dreams that tell them they're doing something wrong or they should do this or that,etc. I don't know I honestly want to get out of the religion so I can feel free. The fact that I can't do stuff like dating, drawing something animated (I really don't know why this is sin, much less a major sin), having a dog as pet, and not for hunting, and other things angers me a bi


    It's not about symptoms, but about how we can't really trust our perceptions without hard evidences. I think the duas are more like self-fulfilling prophecy, especially if you are very superstitious. It's very easy to interpret anything as "signs" or to even make it up because you believe it's true.

    Is there a chance that you could live alone? Maybe rent a room somewhere close to your job?

    When I was living with my parents my personality (before I left the house) was pretty close to theirs'. When I was close to my superstitious aunt, I ended up believing that ghosts exist, always got scared of random stuff, afraid to sleep alone, etc. Her irrational fear really rubbed to me. Once I moved out, I kind of... finally felt free of their influence and I could definitely see that a lot of irrational fears or superstition is a matter of perception.

    It's really strange, but the less you think about it, the more you see that they're just randomly interpreting events in life as "signs". Bad/good dreams just happen, and they don't matter. Really.
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