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Theme Changer

 Topic: Thoughts on God is Not Great: How Religion Poisons Everything

 (Read 3804 times)
  • 1« Previous thread | Next thread »
  • Thoughts on God is Not Great: How Religion Poisons Everything
     OP - September 27, 2015, 07:45 AM

    I just finished reading God is Not Great: How Religion Poisons Everything by Christopher Hitchens. I'm sure this book has been discussed on the forum before but I can't find any search functionality to find old threads and needed to get some thoughts out of my head.

    I have never before felt so much anger, vitriol and almost repulsion from a book before, especially the first couple of chapters. Most of the arguments presented by Hitches I have come across before, but he is fantastic at articulating his points and leading from one to another.

    Some of my favourite excerpts from the book:

    On the miracle of Christ's birth:
    "The Greek demigod Perseus was born when the god Jupiter visited the virgin Danaë as a shower of gold and got her with child. The god Buddha was born through an opening in his mother’s flank. Catlicus the serpent-skirted caught a little ball of feathers from the sky and hid it in her bosom, and the Aztec god Huitzilopochtli was thus conceived. The virgin Nana took a pomegranate from the tree watered by the blood of the slain Agdestris, and laid it in her bosom, and gave birth to the god Attis. The virgin daughter of a Mongol king awoke one night and found herself bathed in a great light, which caused her to give birth to Genghis Khan. Krishna was born of the virgin Devaka. Horus was born of the virgin Isis. Mercury was born of the virgin Maia. Romulus was born of the virgin Rhea Sylvia."

    On Abraham's willingness to sacrifice Ishmael:
    "He was praised from the clouds for showing his sturdy willingness to murder an innocent in expiation of his own crimes.
    On religion being man made:

    "Nothing proves the man-made character of religion as obviously as the sick mind that designed hell, unless it is the sorely limited mind that has failed to describe heaven—except as a place of either worldly comfort, eternal tedium, or (as Tertullian thought) continual relish in the torture of others."

    On religion in general:
    "What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence."

    And my absolute favourite line:
    '“The voice of Reason is soft.” But it is very persistent'.

    What I found extremely fascinating were the insights on Communism, Budhsim, Mother Teresa and Gandhi. These are topics I never really associated with religion (the first two being more philosophical topics and the last two I always thought of just as nice people). The hypocrisy of Teresa, Gandhi, the Pope and people in general is astounding. I would argue that it is tribalism at it's finest but I'm not sure I'm convinced of that, I think it's something more innate.

    Having said all that, I don't think it's religion. Religion certainly helps (just like guns do with killing people), but I think People poison everything. We have innate selfish, self-destructive tendencies. We ruin perfectly good things in the face of adversity. Once we latch on to an idea, or a problem no matter how minor or solvable, we try to escape it and replace it with other, self-made problems, sacrificing so much in the process.

    People are fickle, one day we are madly in love with something or someone, the next day we turn our backs on them. Because we can't be bothered, are bored or simply having a bad day. If someone offers a solution, a comforting word or tells us what we really need, (be it god, or something more worldly), even better! Then we have our very own special branch of arrogance where once we've made a choice, we convince ourselves that it is the best path and absolutely what we wanted and nothing in the world could make us happier. Often, we never back down and convince ourselves that whatever fallacy we are committing is the right thing to do, even if it goes against all our instincts, conscience and ideals.

    We do this at a baser level, and once we do this as a society, religion is born. And we've created our very own personal hells.
  • Thoughts on God is Not Great: How Religion Poisons Everything
     Reply #1 - September 27, 2015, 08:24 AM

    I also just publicly shared my Goodreads rating for the book on my Facebook profile, including everyone I know from Pakistan.  Hello shitstorm..
  • Thoughts on God is Not Great: How Religion Poisons Everything
     Reply #2 - September 27, 2015, 11:30 AM

    hello Lasson..  long time no see,, what is cooking?
    I just finished reading God is Not Great: How Religion Poisons Everything by Christopher Hitchens.....................................

    What I found extremely fascinating were the insights on Communism, Budhsim, Mother Teresa and Gandhi. These are topics I never really associated with religion (the first two being more philosophical topics and the last two I always thought of just as nice people). The hypocrisy of Teresa, Gandhi, the Pope and people in general is astounding. I would argue that it is tribalism at it's finest but I'm not sure I'm convinced of that, I think it's something more innate..........


    well Last 10 years or so of his life, Hitchens  focussed on a view that

    " HOWEVER GOOD AND HOWEVER BAD A PERSON MAY BE OR THEIR RELIGIOUS PHILOSOPHY MAY BE,  NO ONE IS UNQUESTIONABLE  AND NO RELIGION, NO POLITICAL PHILOSOPHY SHOULD ESCAPE  CRITICISM "

    and that was his basic rule and I think that is a good rule if we apply it across the  board to all. So on that basis you,  me and Hitchens can question all.....

    So  Lasson., when was the last time you visited land of pure??

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Thoughts on God is Not Great: How Religion Poisons Everything
     Reply #3 - September 27, 2015, 12:41 PM

    Hi yeezevee (how do you even pronounce that), nothing exciting is cooking, just trudging along..

    I like that view. I think that should be the ethos of the media in general, but I suppose there is too much at play for that to ever be the case.

    The last time I was in the land of the pure was almost four years ago. It was not a particularly pleasant visit and I did not feel any sense of purity. I did see things with a lot more clarity though (it was my first visit after admitting to myself that God was an egotistic bastard) so I guess the term "culture shock" could be used to describe it. Sad, really, to think that of a place you called home for so long..
  • Thoughts on God is Not Great: How Religion Poisons Everything
     Reply #4 - September 27, 2015, 07:10 PM

    Hi yeezevee (how do you even pronounce that), nothing exciting is cooking, just trudging along..

    glad to see your response Lassan.,   How do you pronounce?   that is easy.... just add a letter "V" to "easy"....  lol..

    Quote
    I like that view. I think that should be the ethos of the media in general, but I suppose there is too much at play for that to ever be the case.

    well in this internet age, media and ethics of media  are changing so fast some times wrong stuff spreads like wild fire..

    Quote
    The last time I was in the land of the pure was almost four years ago. ...........

    ................ God was an egotistic bastard..............

    yes you are right., 4 years ago land of pure was filled with impurity .. but things are changing slowly.  The problem is the crooks/criminals/religious rogues and politicians that  nexus is killing the country and it is happening since that time Mr. Bhutto was Murdered.  But when we look at around the globe all these so-called Islamic nations ..may be Pakistan is in a better shape.      So let us be positive..  

    as far as ..........God was an egotistic bastard......... is concerned .. well god was created in the image human figure with a human mind by human beings .. so  egotistical bastards created egotistic god.... I always refer to that Sam harris on the god..  this god of jains from india apparently is  a great god.. he says

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ri_hruUhJUw

    may be i should join jainism.. well not now.. may be after 30 years..  but i want to know more about this guy jain

    http://www.sacred-texts.com/jai/sbe22/index.htm
    http://www.sacred-texts.com/jai/sbe45/index.htm

    not sure he was real.. could be same as created figure head like moses..jesus..muhammad.. and all those all indian god guys..  etc..etc..


    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Thoughts on God is Not Great: How Religion Poisons Everything
     Reply #5 - September 28, 2015, 06:48 AM

    How are things changing in Pakistan? I think their problem is culture, rather than religion. Sure culture is reinforced by religion, but still.

    And why would you want to join Jainism? What would you gain from "belonging" to it? Would you become a different, better person?
  • Thoughts on God is Not Great: How Religion Poisons Everything
     Reply #6 - September 28, 2015, 12:10 PM

    How are things changing in Pakistan? I think their problem is culture, rather than religion. Sure culture is reinforced by religion, but still.

      Culture..culture......

    Hi Lassan., tell me  a bit about the culture of south Asia  .. culture of people from Iran to Indonesia and and How Pakistani culture differs from other people that live between Iran to Indonesia?  
    Quote
    And why would you want to join Jainism? What would you gain from "belonging" to it? Would you become a different, better person?  

    Oh!  simple question for yeez..... well there are plenty of  believers on this earth and many who joined this forum also believers they are Agnos ..I mean Agnostics.. And I am very cunning rascal, so I was just  tossing up a religion and trying to help others so they will catch jainism and become  JAIN FUNDAMENTALISTS and I can rule all and the world consequently..  

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Thoughts on God is Not Great: How Religion Poisons Everything
     Reply #7 - September 28, 2015, 06:40 PM

    I have not experienced the culture of Iran or Indonesia so I have no idea how it differs. The culture of Pakistan, though .. (some/most) people are just nosy, nobody minds their own business. Everyone is considered about what their neighbours might think. People say one thing and say one thing and do another: they are hypocrites. But I guess that is not restricted to the people of Pakistan.

    Where are you from?
  • Thoughts on God is Not Great: How Religion Poisons Everything
     Reply #8 - September 29, 2015, 02:57 PM

    Quote
    Where are you from?

     Not that far from where you came from...  born somewhere  ..brought up some other place ....and living somewhere else.,  Just a vagabond in  life.. and searching  for something I lost long ago... And I don't think I can ever get that back..  
    I have not experienced the culture of Iran or Indonesia so I have no idea how it differs. The culture of Pakistan, though .. (some/most) people are just nosy, nobody minds their own business.

    well I think it is good be nosy as long as the person/s who are nosy have good intentions and use golden rule as often as they can to guide their lives,,
    Quote
    Everyone is considered about what their neighbours might think. People say one thing and say one thing and do another: they are hypocrites. But I guess that is not restricted to the people of Pakistan.

    I 100% agree with that Lassan   well let me hear a bit of this from Sam Harris..

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zP20eBfp2oM

    with best wishes
    yeezevee

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Thoughts on God is Not Great: How Religion Poisons Everything
     Reply #9 - October 01, 2015, 07:41 AM

    I enjoyed Obama's answer, thank you for sharing.
  • Thoughts on God is Not Great: How Religion Poisons Everything
     Reply #10 - October 01, 2015, 10:00 AM

     Just a vagabond in  life.. and searching  for something I lost long ago... And I don't think I can ever get that back..

    Violins for Yeez.
  • Thoughts on God is Not Great: How Religion Poisons Everything
     Reply #11 - October 01, 2015, 10:16 AM

    Quote
      born somewhere  ..brought up some other place ....and living somewhere else.,  Just a vagabond in  life.. and searching  for something I lost long ago... And I don't think I can ever get that back.. 



    : (    far away hug

    x
  • Thoughts on God is Not Great: How Religion Poisons Everything
     Reply #12 - October 01, 2015, 05:24 PM


    : (    far away hug

    x  

      
    Thank you suki ... well life goes on with human beings or without human beings., with god or without god ..

    But........ "Life can NOT go on without Love.... life without love is no life "

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • moral busybodies
     Reply #13 - October 01, 2015, 06:13 PM

    I'm not sure religeon as such poisons everything but it can, and in Islam very often does, create what CS Lewis called moral busybodies. Here is how he phrased it:

    CS Lewis
    Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.
  • Thoughts on God is Not Great: How Religion Poisons Everything
     Reply #14 - October 01, 2015, 10:21 PM

     
    Thank you suki ... well life goes on with human beings or without human beings., with god or without god ..

    But........ "Life can NOT go on without Love.... life without love is no life "



    Very true, Yeeze.. it has zero meaning without love.. 

    huuuuge hugs and lots of love to you xxx 
  • Thoughts on God is Not Great: How Religion Poisons Everything
     Reply #15 - October 06, 2015, 07:22 AM

    You might enjoy this, yeezevee
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d898E7ZI9ak
  • Thoughts on God is Not Great: How Religion Poisons Everything
     Reply #16 - October 06, 2015, 04:21 PM

    You might enjoy this, yeezevee
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d898E7ZI9ak

    Yap.. that is the only thing ., that is it... that is the ultimatum  Lassan..

    If you have it  don't lose it..  if you don't have go get it..

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hBKwtvnfYZA

    That indeed is the   Spirit

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EjRJSDUvxLk

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Thoughts on God is Not Great: How Religion Poisons Everything
     Reply #17 - October 07, 2015, 07:49 AM

    Quote
    If you have it  don't lose it..  if you don't have go get it..


    Too late for that buddy. I had something amazing but then suddenly, out of the blue, for reasons beyond my understanding it was gone. Just like that. Every morning I wake up and tell myself today is going to be a little bit less miserable, but nope, memory is a bitch.
    So now, I don't trust anyone and have very little faith in humanity. Oh well.

    That Yanni song is amazing!
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