Skip navigation
Sidebar -

Advanced search options →

Welcome

Welcome to CEMB forum.
Please login or register. Did you miss your activation email?

Donations

Help keep the Forum going!
Click on Kitty to donate:

Kitty is lost

Recent Posts


Lights on the way
by akay
Today at 04:40 PM

Qur'anic studies today
by zeca
Today at 02:45 PM

اضواء على الطريق ....... ...
by akay
Today at 12:50 PM

Do humans have needed kno...
Today at 04:17 AM

What's happened to the fo...
by zeca
Yesterday at 06:39 PM

New Britain
Yesterday at 05:41 PM

Do humans have needed kno...
Yesterday at 05:47 AM

Iran launches drones
April 13, 2024, 09:56 PM

عيد مبارك للجميع! ^_^
by akay
April 12, 2024, 04:01 PM

Eid-Al-Fitr
by akay
April 12, 2024, 12:06 PM

Mock Them and Move on., ...
January 30, 2024, 10:44 AM

Pro Israel or Pro Palesti...
January 29, 2024, 01:53 PM

Theme Changer

 Topic: A letter to Ali Sina

 (Read 15863 times)
  • Previous page 1 2 34 5 6 Next page « Previous thread | Next thread »
  • A letter to Ali Sina
     Reply #60 - September 01, 2015, 01:24 PM

    People need to remember that Islam is not something which belongs exclusively to the followers of Mohammed. It's for all believing nations of one God.

    Straight to the hellfire for my Japanese wife. Poor thing. She knows not what she does (or does not).
  • A letter to Ali Sina
     Reply #61 - September 01, 2015, 01:34 PM

    Sorry I meant in a proper Muslim state people would be free to believe whatever they wanted to. Just like in the early past of Arabs where Jews, Christians, Muslims and probably atheists as well were able to do so.


    Can you give us an example of proper Muslim state, from past, present?


    Quick google gave me https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Baghdad

    I don't know of any present ones but there may be. I haven't travelled much.


    Oh, really? So I take it that Mansur al-Hallaj - to take one prominent example - deserved his fate?
  • A letter to Ali Sina
     Reply #62 - September 01, 2015, 02:31 PM

    Typical. Always looking at the negative points and never acknowledging the positive ones. So a million muslims/believers can do a million good things yet the atheist will always point out what wrong a believer did which isn't even in accordance with the Quran.

    Shouldn't you be citing under which law in the Quran that person was killed or are you just a hater?
  • A letter to Ali Sina
     Reply #63 - September 01, 2015, 03:11 PM

     
    That's you then Hassan but not the vast majority of people. If you think that is the only thing you have then it seems you still don't understand the Quran even though you spent so long learning it. Do you understand that many of the prophets of God suffered a lot more than you? Do you understand that God was there all the time watching all of it. Do you understand why he let some of the prophets die at the hands of the disbelievers? It was to show what is in peoples hearts.


    Alternatively, couldn't it just be that the stories of suffering in the Quran, as borrowed from Jewish lore, were meant to explain the dilemma of human suffering (particularly the righteous suffering) within a religious framework? How religions have dealt with the realities of human suffering is a very interesting topic. Throughout the Bible itself, there are several competing explanations given. The same is true with the Qur’an. (Is suffering a test or a punishment?) Of course, Buddhism took a very different approach to the realities of human suffering and what we might do to realize it.
  • A letter to Ali Sina
     Reply #64 - September 01, 2015, 03:15 PM

    Bart Ehman's book God's Problem discusses this very topic as it relates to the Old and New Testaments. It's worth a read if you are interested.

    Quote
    EDITORIAL REVIEW FROM THE PUBLISHER
    In times of questioning and despair, people often quote the Bible to provide answers. Surprisingly, though, the Bible does not have one answer but many “answers” that often contradict one another. Consider these competing explanations for suffering put forth by various biblical writers: The prophets: suffering is a punishment for sin. The book of Job, which offers two different answers: suffering is a test, and you will be rewarded later for passing it; and suffering is beyond comprehension, since we are just human beings and God, after all, is God. Ecclesiastes: suffering is the nature of things, so just accept it. All apocalyptic texts in both the Hebrew Bible and the New Testament: God will eventually make right all that is wrong with the world. For renowned Bible scholar Bart Ehrman, the question of why there is so much suffering in the world is more than a haunting thought. Ehrman’s inability to reconcile the claims of faith with the facts of real life led the former pastor of the Princeton Baptist Church to reject Christianity. In God’s Problem, Ehrman discusses his personal anguish upon discovering the Bible’s contradictory explanations for suffering and invites all people of faith–or no faith–to confront their deepest questions about how God engages the world

  • A letter to Ali Sina
     Reply #65 - September 01, 2015, 04:44 PM

    Borrowed? The Quran is a confirmation of previous revelation.

    The Bible is a great book for muslims but many seem afraid to accept and read it. I think suffering is both good and bad. It's bad because your not feeling too great but it's good because it makes you humble and maybe closer to God.
  • A letter to Ali Sina
     Reply #66 - September 01, 2015, 05:07 PM

    Typical. Always looking at the negative points and never acknowledging the positive ones. So a million muslims/believers can do a million good things yet the atheist will always point out what wrong a believer did which isn't even in accordance with the Quran.


    Typical. You assert that a thing is possible - a 'proper Muslim state' where 'people would be free to believe whatever they wanted to' - and then, when asked to provide an example, provide an example (in your case, the Abbasid Caliphate), and when shown that this 'proper Muslim state' never took such freedom of belief to be a virtue, try to pretend you didn't just say that there was such a thing as a 'proper Muslim state' and look to the Qur'an to bail you out, as if that trumps the glaring error of fact you just made.

    Shouldn't you be citing under which law in the Quran that person was killed or are you just a hater?


    Shouldn't you be standing by your historical judgement, or are you just making stuff up to suit whatever makes you feel better?
  • A letter to Ali Sina
     Reply #67 - September 01, 2015, 05:19 PM

    "You assert that a thing is possible" - If I assert something is possible do I have to provide an example?

    Why don't you provide all the details of what makes you think that the Abbasid Caliphate "never took such freedom of belief to be a virtue". Don't you need some details before you succumb to your confirmation bias?
  • A letter to Ali Sina
     Reply #68 - September 01, 2015, 05:25 PM

    Ted, have you considered whether you are wrong? Truly?
  • A letter to Ali Sina
     Reply #69 - September 01, 2015, 05:27 PM

    How do you explain eternal torture in Hell?
  • A letter to Ali Sina
     Reply #70 - September 01, 2015, 05:34 PM

    "You assert that a thing is possible" - If I assert something is possible do I have to provide an example?


    You did, though, didn't you? Look at my post further up, where I quoted the turn you took. Or even read your previous posts, in case you need reminding that those were your own words.

    Why don't you provide all the details of what makes you think that the Abbasid Caliphate "never took such freedom of belief to be a virtue". Don't you need some details before you succumb to your confirmation bias?


    Fine. Mansur al-Hallaj wasn't executed for having heterodox beliefs at all, and the whole Sufi gnosis to enosis thing he was famous for was something he was lauded for to his death from natural causes at the age of 104. Why, the Caliph al-Muqtadir himself was heard to say "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it, because the Qur'an told me so" at al-Hallaj's famous trial, an utterance given credence by no less a historian of the era as Abu Mansur al-Baghdadi. None of his followers were subsequently beheaded, no sir, because - as Abu Mansur said - "verily, the Hallajiyya were not apostates, and their blood was haram to Muslims unto judgement day".

    You know, this historical invention game is pretty cool. I can see why you love it.
  • A letter to Ali Sina
     Reply #71 - September 01, 2015, 05:38 PM

    Yes I did provide an example. But even if my example is not to correct or to your liking then it doesn't mean that it's not possible. That's 2 different things.

    You said it.
  • A letter to Ali Sina
     Reply #72 - September 01, 2015, 05:39 PM

    Ted, have you considered whether you are wrong? Truly?


    Wrong about what?
  • A letter to Ali Sina
     Reply #73 - September 01, 2015, 05:42 PM

    Wrong about what?



    Whether God exists. Whether Islam is true. Whether the Qur'an is the word of God.
  • A letter to Ali Sina
     Reply #74 - September 01, 2015, 05:44 PM

    Yes I did provide an example. But even if my example is not to correct or to your liking then it doesn't mean that it's not possible. That's 2 different things.

    You said it.

    You said that the example you gave was that of a proper Muslim state. Whether it is possible or not wasn't really the issue; what was the issue was that you said that there was one that coincidentally fit your doctrinal biases (that is, if you have a doctrine of any kind, instead of inventing it at each turn) where "people would be free to believe whatever they wanted to". You were called out for playing fast and loose with the historical record.

    And now, when you have to concede that point, you obfuscate by saying "yes, but it's still POSSIBLE". That's not really what this was ever about, and you know it.
  • A letter to Ali Sina
     Reply #75 - September 01, 2015, 06:03 PM

    How do you explain eternal torture in Hell?


    I think it's going to come down to trust Hassan. Are you willing to accept that you are human and don't know the future and that God will be just to all of his creation. I don't know the answer but I have some thoughts.

    The soul is something we just don't understand. It could be that some souls are just going to be bad and will never fully correct themselves so that God can forgive and purify them of their evil. Why God created these souls? I have no idea. Could God have created souls that would never go to hell? Yes he could but he hasn't and only God knows why.

    Maybe there are some souls which simply refuse to obey God and will revert to evil each time they are forgiven. They feel punishment and ask for forgiveness. They are forgiven then they revert back to their old ways. Why they do that I don't know. If we look at the Iblis/Satan he could simply say "OK God I know I'm going to hell so I'll just pray to you until Judgement Day and forget about misleading the humans". Has he done it? No. Instead he doesn't care he'll keep on doing what he shouldn't be doing.

    There are some people who keep going to prison. They get punished, they serve their sentence and then released. Soon after they are back in prison. These kind of guys keep going back into prison. Maybe someone needs to ask them why they keep offending. If they say "I just like doing bad things" then what do you do? If you change the soul of that person so that he no longer sins then is he that same person or is that a new person? I think it's a new person.

    I agree it's hard to understand but maybe this is where we have to put trust in God. Everything good we have has come from God. Your friends, your family your intellect all the beautiful things in the world. On top of that God has promised even better things in the hereafter. Does it no make more sense to accept we are human and are not capable of understanding certain things and trust the being who has brought us into existence and cherishes us all? if we don't like hell then can we not wait until Judgement Day and ask God to make us understand?

    By saying hell is a fiction is not good. The enormity if it is not realised by most of us. First thing is that we simply don't know. That is the truth. I think because of people picking and choosing what they like about religion is what has caused a lot of misguided people. They spread this onto new generations and then soon the one religion becomes many.
  • A letter to Ali Sina
     Reply #76 - September 01, 2015, 06:13 PM


    Whether God exists. Whether Islam is true. Whether the Qur'an is the word of God.


    I am always open to being proven wrong or coming across something which will make me think again. For about 10 years I've been learning about what is the truth about God. Everything slowly has made more and more sense. I sound arrogant but I KNOW there is God. I no longer believe in God like I used to. I see the signs very very clearly. There are many who do. I fall back to science to support my beliefs. It's not the Quran itself, it's what the Quran and Bible say that confirm them.

  • A letter to Ali Sina
     Reply #77 - September 01, 2015, 06:16 PM

    Why should I put my trust in n something that doesn't make sense to me?
  • A letter to Ali Sina
     Reply #78 - September 01, 2015, 06:18 PM

    I  KNOW there is God.


    How do you know?

    Can we all know?

    How?
  • A letter to Ali Sina
     Reply #79 - September 01, 2015, 06:58 PM

    Why should I put my trust in n something that doesn't make sense to me?


    Don't until it does. Keep on questioning it. I kept reading the quran. First without tafsir. Then with tafsir which made it more confusing in places. Then on it's own again.

    If you haven't already take a look at www.quransmessage.com I like the explanations on there they make sense. Check the guys facebook site too.

    Pray to God. Keep bugging him.
  • A letter to Ali Sina
     Reply #80 - September 01, 2015, 07:20 PM

    So if you are a flawed and limited human being, and it is through your flawed and limited reasoning that you have come to the conclusion that the Qur’an is true, how can you be sure that your conclusion is not flawed and limited?
  • A letter to Ali Sina
     Reply #81 - September 01, 2015, 07:33 PM

    No one can ever know what the absolute truth is. We do the best we can with our abilities. We should challenge all the flaws. Our reasoning should make sense regardless of the flaws we have.
  • A letter to Ali Sina
     Reply #82 - September 01, 2015, 07:33 PM

    Pray to God. Keep bugging him.


    I did and I have.

    Does he only listen and respond those who reach a certain number of persistent requests?

    I have been bugging him for 56 years.

    Is that not enough?
  • A letter to Ali Sina
     Reply #83 - September 01, 2015, 07:36 PM

    What have you been asking for?
  • A letter to Ali Sina
     Reply #84 - September 01, 2015, 07:37 PM

    No one can ever know what the absolute truth is. We do the best we can with our abilities. We should challenge all the flaws. Our reasoning should make sense regardless of the flaws we have.


    You just said "I KNOW there is a God," the dramatic capital letters emphatically stressing your certainty.  
  • A letter to Ali Sina
     Reply #85 - September 01, 2015, 07:43 PM

    I KNOW there is a God based on science and reasoning. Now all this could be an illusion controlled by green aliens or maybe I'm in a dream or maybe this is the longest delusion that someone experienced.

    Based off what I know and my reasoning I know there is God.
  • A letter to Ali Sina
     Reply #86 - September 01, 2015, 07:48 PM

    What have you been asking for?


    Amongst other things - to guide me. To help me understand. To make my son better. To save my daughter.

    He did none. My daughter died. My son became mentally ill and he did not guide me nor help me to understand.
  • A letter to Ali Sina
     Reply #87 - September 01, 2015, 07:51 PM

    I KNOW there is a God based on science and reasoning. Now all this could be an illusion controlled by green aliens or maybe I'm in a dream or maybe this is the longest delusion that someone experienced.

    Based off what I know and my reasoning I know there is God.


    I'm happy for you.

    Can you understand and appreciate that most of us don't have this certainty - through no fault of our own.
  • A letter to Ali Sina
     Reply #88 - September 01, 2015, 07:56 PM

    I KNOW there is a God based on science and reasoning. Now all this could be an illusion controlled by green aliens or maybe I'm in a dream or maybe this is the longest delusion that someone experienced.

    Based off what I know and my reasoning I know there is God.


    It’s ok man. I’ve honestly had this discussion countless times before. The thing that keeps me from claiming certainty in my own convictions myself is because of the amount of times I’ve witnessed people of all persuasions and delusions declaring how they “know” things that they can’t possibly know, simply because they are convinced by their own personal reasoning. We all do it, I suppose.

    I honestly pray (figurative usage) that you never lose your certainty. It has its benefits, even when you are wrong. 

    But you seem like a pretty decent dude and I couldn’t see you hurting people because of your personal convictions, apart from inflicting numerous face-palm moments, so I suppose there really is no harm done.
  • A letter to Ali Sina
     Reply #89 - September 01, 2015, 07:57 PM

    Did I not say the right magic words, Ted?
  • Previous page 1 2 34 5 6 Next page « Previous thread | Next thread »