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Theme Changer

 Topic: Blown away

 (Read 30310 times)
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  • Blown away
     OP - August 05, 2015, 07:52 AM
    I've spent over 10 years trying to understand Quran and finally I feel like I now understand (most of) it. Then I come across this forum and I kinda feel blown away. I'm glad to see the honesty from the members here. It's refreshing to see some challenging questions.

    I welcome people to challenge my belief in God and the Quran and Bible. I look forward to some engaging discussions if anyone is up to it.

    Thanks
    My nasheed. Sing it with me!
  • Blown away
     Reply #1 - August 05, 2015, 08:25 AM
    Hello and welcome to the forum! Here's your arnoob  bunny

    Blown away in what way? And how do you feel that you "understand(understood - past tense?) the Quran"?
    "The healthiest people I know are those who are the first to label themselves fucked up." - three
  • Blown away
     Reply #2 - August 05, 2015, 08:54 AM
    Blown away in that there are so many ex-Muslims who actually seem very intellectual. Some who have been quite devoted from childhood. I guess I was expecting mostly converts to have left Islam. My assumption being that converts didn't really understand or had found the wrong group of Muslims who didn't really understand Islam themselves and preached a hard to understand version of Islam.

    I guess this forum highlights the shortcomings of the "Islamic community". There doesn't appear to be a resource where Muslims can go and find out the truth. You either accept what you're community believes in or you're out. Or maybe you just pretend and live a double life.
    My nasheed. Sing it with me!
  • Blown away
     Reply #3 - August 05, 2015, 09:39 AM
    Quote from: Cornflower on August 05, 2015, 08:25 AM
    And how do you feel that you "understand(understood - past tense?) the Quran"?


    My belief is based on science rather than blind faith. The Quran says use science to learn about God. I can see why some ex-Muslims have left but haven't found anything yet that puts the Quran in doubt.
    My nasheed. Sing it with me!
  • Blown away
     Reply #4 - August 05, 2015, 09:43 AM
     Welcome CallMe Ted..  
      
  • Blown away
     Reply #5 - August 05, 2015, 09:49 AM
    Welcome to the forum CallMeTed!

    Quote
    my belief in God and the Quran and Bible.


    I confess I'm a bit confused. Are you a Muslim, a Christian, or both?  grin12
    He's no friend to the friendless
    And he's the mother of grief
    There's only sorrow for tomorrow
    Surely life is too brief
  • Blown away
     Reply #6 - August 05, 2015, 10:00 AM
    ^This.

    Welcome Ted.

    I can post a video I made a while back that sums up my view of the Qur'an if you're interested?
  • Blown away
     Reply #7 - August 05, 2015, 10:05 AM
    I kind of get the impression that you can be somewhat arrogant, perhaps without even realizing, in particular related to your faith that you percieve as absolute truth beyond any possible doubt. Really, it has never crossed your mind that people leave Islam out of intelectual reasons based on facts and reason? And you still have a condencending attitude, the "Muslim community" has to "take care" of the poor lost souls because there is absolutely no way you can leave Islam out of valid reasons but must be because they are ignorant about their own religion. Basically, ex-Muslims are still just confused and uneducated in their own (former) faith. Doeasn't seem as you've changed much of your previous stance despite saying you were surprised there were so "many" intelectual (ex-Muslim) individuals on the forum...
    "The healthiest people I know are those who are the first to label themselves fucked up." - three
  • Blown away
     Reply #8 - August 05, 2015, 10:07 AM
    Welcome.
    Which side are you on?
  • Blown away
     Reply #9 - August 05, 2015, 11:41 AM
    Quote from: Hassan on August 05, 2015, 10:00 AM
    ^This.

    Welcome Ted.

    I can post a video I made a while back that sums up my view of the Qur'an if you're interested?


    Yes please.
    My nasheed. Sing it with me!
  • Blown away
     Reply #10 - August 05, 2015, 12:26 PM
    Watch "Is the Qur'an a Miracle?" on YouTube
    https://youtu.be/2CHm2xigkBc
  • Blown away
     Reply #11 - August 05, 2015, 01:23 PM
    Quote from: Naerys on August 05, 2015, 09:49 AM
    Welcome to the forum CallMeTed!

    I confess I'm a bit confused. Are you a Muslim, a Christian, or both?  grin12


    Thanks for the welcome.

    I think the term "Muslim" and "Islam" is incorrectly understood and used. You can have a muslim Jew and muslim Christian if both peoples are submitting themselves to God. To make it simple I'm "Muslim". I follow the Quran.
    My nasheed. Sing it with me!
  • Blown away
     Reply #12 - August 05, 2015, 01:28 PM
    So, do you deny human evolution, condone wife-beating, and think fornicators should be flogged 100 lashes?
  • Blown away
     Reply #13 - August 05, 2015, 01:36 PM
    Quote from: Cornflower on August 05, 2015, 10:05 AM
    I kind of get the impression that you can be somewhat arrogant, perhaps without even realizing, in particular related to your faith that you percieve as absolute truth beyond any possible doubt. Really, it has never crossed your mind that people leave Islam out of intelectual reasons based on facts and reason? And you still have a condencending attitude, the "Muslim community" has to "take care" of the poor lost souls because there is absolutely no way you can leave Islam out of valid reasons but must be because they are ignorant about their own religion. Basically, ex-Muslims are still just confused and uneducated in their own (former) faith. Doeasn't seem as you've changed much of your previous stance despite saying you were surprised there were so "many" intelectual (ex-Muslim) individuals on the forum...


    I can be arrogant without realising it. My apologies for this in advance. It's not intentional.

    If someone really does understand the truth about this life and God then yes I can't see how someone could leave Islam/religion based on intellectual reasons. Unless of course they are choosing to not obey God but that's a different matter. The way I see it is that if you are leaving Islam then you don't really understand reality and God.
    My nasheed. Sing it with me!
  • Blown away
     Reply #14 - August 05, 2015, 01:38 PM
    To all who have welcomed me to the forum - Thanks for the welcome!
    My nasheed. Sing it with me!
  • Blown away
     Reply #15 - August 05, 2015, 01:38 PM
    Ah, my manners. Welcome.  parrot bunny
  • Blown away
     Reply #16 - August 05, 2015, 01:43 PM
    Quote from: happymurtad on August 05, 2015, 01:28 PM
    So, do you deny human evolution, condone wife-beating, and think fornicators should be flogged 100 lashes?


    I definitely deny human evolution - there is absolutely no scientific evidence for it. I've read the books,  seen the vids, etc. it's all nonsense.
    No I don't condone wife-beating. I don't believe the Quran does say that but if it does I don't like it and that does nothing to affect my belief in God or the Quran.
    Yes I believe it's OK to flog believing fornicators. If fornicators choose to not be believers then they shouldn't be flogged.
    My nasheed. Sing it with me!
  • Blown away
     Reply #17 - August 05, 2015, 01:45 PM
    OK thanks. Just gauging the level of crazy we'll be dealing with here.
  • Blown away
     Reply #18 - August 05, 2015, 01:46 PM
    So you mentioned there can be "Muslim Christians" and "Muslim Jews," so long as they submit to "god." Can there be Muslim Sikhs?
  • Blown away
     Reply #19 - August 05, 2015, 01:53 PM
    Quote from: happymurtad on August 05, 2015, 01:45 PM
    OK thanks. Just gauging the level of crazy we'll be dealing with here.


    Cheesy

    In all honesty, we can behave like insensitive jerks sometimes. You just beat me to it with this! Grin


    But seriusly, Ted, you don't see any problems with your 100 % certainty you claim? So everyone who doesn't think and believe in exactly what you do, are just simply wrong? Doesn't it sound like hybris to you, just poorly disguised as deep religious faith and rightousness?

    Roll Eyes
    "The healthiest people I know are those who are the first to label themselves fucked up." - three
  • Re: Blown away
     Reply #20 - August 05, 2015, 01:59 PM
    Quote from: happymurtad on August 05, 2015, 01:46 PM
    So you mentioned there can be "Muslim Christians" and "Muslim Jews," so long as they submit to "god." Can there be Muslim Sikhs?


    If a Sikh has the same beliefs then yes. The rituals can be different but the beliefs have to be the same. You can only have one truth. You can't have some people believing in the hereafter and some not. The hereafter either exists or it doesn't.
    My nasheed. Sing it with me!
  • Blown away
     Reply #21 - August 05, 2015, 02:04 PM
    Welcome Ted  Smiley

    Live and let live
  • Blown away
     Reply #22 - August 05, 2015, 02:33 PM
    Quote from: happymurtad on August 05, 2015, 01:45 PM
    OK thanks. Just gauging the level of crazy we'll be dealing with here.


     Cheesy
  • Blown away
     Reply #23 - August 05, 2015, 02:35 PM
    Quote from: happymurtad on August 05, 2015, 01:46 PM
    So you mentioned there can be "Muslim Christians" and "Muslim Jews," so long as they submit to "god." Can there be Muslim Sikhs?


    Or Muslim Hindus?

    Muslim Scientologists?

    Muslim Atheists?

    Or my favourite... Muslim Agnostics? (They're so good looking!)
  • Blown away
     Reply #24 - August 05, 2015, 02:37 PM
    Quote from: CallMeTed on August 05, 2015, 01:43 PM
    Yes I believe it's OK to flog believing fornicators. If fornicators choose to not be believers then they shouldn't be flogged.



    Why the two different punishments for a believer and non-believer?
  • Blown away
     Reply #25 - August 05, 2015, 03:03 PM
    Quote from: Hassan on August 05, 2015, 02:35 PM
    Or Muslim Hindus?

    Muslim Scientologists?

    Muslim Atheists?

    Or my favourite... Muslim Agnostics? (They're so good looking!)


    As I said before, if the beliefs are the same then yes it's fine. We were created to have differences so that we can get to know each other.
    My nasheed. Sing it with me!
  • Blown away
     Reply #26 - August 05, 2015, 03:07 PM
    Quote from: Hassan on August 05, 2015, 02:37 PM

    Why the two different punishments for a believer and non-believer?


    If fornicators don't believe in the religion then I don't think it's fair to punish them by it's laws. However if it's to with money or a non-believer violating the rights of a believer then that situation would have to be assessed differently.
    My nasheed. Sing it with me!
  • Blown away
     Reply #27 - August 05, 2015, 03:18 PM
    Quote from: Cornflower on August 05, 2015, 01:53 PM
    But seriusly, Ted, you don't see any problems with your 100 % certainty you claim? So everyone who doesn't think and believe in exactly what you do, are just simply wrong? Doesn't it sound like hybris to you, just poorly disguised as deep religious faith and rightousness?


    My belief is based on science so it's pretty hard for me to not be 100% certain. My faith is weak and I'm not very righteous although I do try. Faith is something I need to work on and I'm pondering on how to increase it.

    Many folk have huge misunderstanding of faith and belief so I will define below:

    Belief - this is something you believe in. Such has there being God, angeles, hereafter, heaven, hell, pilgrimage , etc.
    Faith - this is trust in God in the religious context. If you don't have a belief in God, ie you don't know if he exists, then you can't really have faith. A believer can have zero faith yet have 100% belief that God exists.

    My nasheed. Sing it with me!
  • Blown away
     Reply #28 - August 05, 2015, 03:24 PM
    Quote from: CallMeTed on August 05, 2015, 03:07 PM
    If fornicators don't believe in the religion then I don't think it's fair to punish them by it's laws.


    OK so you are punishing them because of them being inconsistent with their beliefs - rather than it having anything to do with deterring a crime or 'protecting' society.

    Can't such inconsistency be left to God to deal with?
  • Blown away
     Reply #29 - August 05, 2015, 03:27 PM
    Quote from: CallMeTed on August 05, 2015, 03:18 PM
    My belief is based on science so it's pretty hard for me to not be 100% certain...


    Oh boy...
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