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 Topic: so I got my DNA done and I'm a Khazar

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  • so I got my DNA done and I'm a Khazar
     OP - August 04, 2015, 01:20 AM
    For want of a better forum-entry ... the Science section, it is:

    ... my maternal line, which I'd revealed as "Jewish" here, turns out to be M33c. 23andme just told me that. This is not a Near Eastern signature. It is Central-Asian.... very Central-Asian. My mother-tongue, if that term means anything, is most likely Turkish. Turk-ic anyway.

    We'll probably find that this is true of a *lot* of Ashkenaz Jews. The Jewish "evangelism" of the Khazars and non-Muslim Turks, if "evangelism" be the right word, must have been *at least as* thorough as the Islamic dawah of other Turkish groups. Apparently we'd forgotten we were ever Turks in the first place.
  • so I got my DNA done and I'm a Khazar
     Reply #1 - August 04, 2015, 02:33 AM
    That is fascinating. I had no idea.
    Don't let Hitler have the street.
  • so I got my DNA done and I'm a Khazar
     Reply #2 - August 04, 2015, 03:32 AM
    I'd love to have my DNA tested and see what secrets are brought to light. How would I go about it?
    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • so I got my DNA done and I'm a Khazar
     Reply #3 - August 04, 2015, 05:37 AM
    How would you go about it... I'm not sure. But I live in the USA now so this is how I did it:

    I delivered about a hundred US dollars to the site "23andme". They sent me, in return, a box with some lab equipment. I followed the instructions - supplied DNA in the form of a big wad of spittle - and sent back the sample in a (smaller) box. Then I waited until 23andme told me they got the sample, and then I waited another five weeks.

    That's how it worked for me, anyway (so far). There exist other sites.
  • so I got my DNA done and I'm a Khazar
     Reply #4 - August 04, 2015, 07:31 AM
    Fascinating Zimriel. I remember reading a book called the Orientalist, which was about a Jewish man born in Baku, on the Azerbaijan shore of the Caspian. He became an Arabist and the book traces his life pre ww2 and then during it. I think you would enjoy it.

    http://www.theguardian.com/books/2005/jun/18/featuresreviews.guardianreview14



    Quote from: Zimriel on August 04, 2015, 01:20 AM
    For want of a better forum-entry ... the Science section, it is:

    ... my maternal line, which I'd revealed as "Jewish" here, turns out to be M33c. 23andme just told me that. This is not a Near Eastern signature. It is Central-Asian.... very Central-Asian. My mother-tongue, if that term means anything, is most likely Turkish. Turk-ic anyway.

    We'll probably find that this is true of a *lot* of Ashkenaz Jews. The Jewish "evangelism" of the Khazars and non-Muslim Turks, if "evangelism" be the right word, must have been *at least as* thorough as the Islamic dawah of other Turkish groups. Apparently we'd forgotten we were ever Turks in the first place.

  • so I got my DNA done and I'm a Khazar
     Reply #5 - August 04, 2015, 07:59 AM
    How interesting! I'd really like to do it myself but don't think it's available in my country.
    "The healthiest people I know are those who are the first to label themselves fucked up." - three
  • so I got my DNA done and I'm a Khazar
     Reply #6 - August 04, 2015, 10:17 AM
    Quote from: Zimriel on August 04, 2015, 01:20 AM
    For want of a better forum-entry ... the Science section, it is:

    ... my maternal line, which I'd revealed as "Jewish" here, turns out to be M33c. 23andme just told me that. This is not a Near Eastern signature. It is Central-Asian.... very Central-Asian. My mother-tongue, if that term means anything, is most likely Turkish. Turk-ic anyway.

    We'll probably find that this is true of a *lot* of Ashkenaz Jews. The Jewish "evangelism" of the Khazars and non-Muslim Turks, if "evangelism" be the right word, must have been *at least as* thorough as the Islamic dawah of other Turkish groups. Apparently we'd forgotten we were ever Turks in the first place.

    I think that's something like what I'd expect most Ashkenazis to find, though I get the idea that researchers in Israel have tried very hard to find Near Eastern links. A couple of questions:

    1) Do you think the Ashkenazi population could have had its origin in part directly in the Jewish population of the cities of Central Asia?

    2) I've got the bits I know about this mainly from reading Shlomo Sand's book The Invention of the Jewish People. I was wondering if you've read this, and if so what you think about it. He writes about the Khazars in chapter four.
    Which side are you on?
  • so I got my DNA done and I'm a Khazar
     Reply #7 - August 04, 2015, 10:25 AM
    You can order the DNA test online Quod,

  • so I got my DNA done and I'm a Khazar
     Reply #8 - August 04, 2015, 11:01 AM
    Meh  My family doesn't even have a proper surname that can be traced back, since they were not common in Pakistan until very late or maybe they were?


    But I know Im indian.  Tongue


    The dna tests cost around £ 100 or something.

  • so I got my DNA done and I'm a Khazar
     Reply #9 - August 04, 2015, 11:36 AM
    .
  • so I got my DNA done and I'm a Khazar
     Reply #10 - August 04, 2015, 02:34 PM
    In my mind I'm a Danish Dane with more Danish on top. I really don't know anything about my family tree past my (now late) grand parents and as far as I remember the most exciting of their wider families was that uncle that emigrated to the US. There are rumours of a Norwegian way back but back then Norway and Denmark were in a union.

    I should take such a test. I might very well be surprised.

    This stuff is quite fascinating.
    Danish Never-Moose adopted by the kind people on the CEMB-forum
    Ex-Muslim chat (Unaffliated with CEMB). Safari users: Use "#ex-muslims" as the channel name. CEMB chat thread.
  • so I got my DNA done and I'm a Khazar
     Reply #11 - August 04, 2015, 03:10 PM
    Your personal results go against the grain of what geneticists are finding out about Ashkenazi maternal lines in general, this article says that the biggest maternal line contribution is Italy:

    http://news.sciencemag.org/biology/2013/10/did-modern-jews-originate-italy

    Quote
    The result was very clear-cut, the authors say: As reported online today in Nature Communications, more than 80% of Ashkenazi mtDNAs had their origins thousands of years ago in Western Europe, during or before Biblical times—and in some cases even before farming came to that part of the continent some 7500 years ago. The closest matches were with mtDNAs from people who today live in and around Italy. The results imply that the Jews can trace their heritage to women who had lived in Europe at that time. Very few Ashkenazi mtDNAs could be traced to the Middle East.


    This is the way I imagine it played out: when the Roman Empire was still Pagan, wealthy Jewish merchants migrated to Italy and Roman elites were happy for their daughters to marry these rich foreign men because this was before Christianity had taken over and educated Pagan Romans perhaps respected and were curious about traditional Jewish Monotheism. The pairing of elite wealthy high achieving Jewish men with elite wealthy Roman women from high achieving families is what may have given Ashkenazi Jews such high IQs (they have higher measured IQs than any other group).

    I also had my DNA tested at 23andMe. It turns out that my Y chromosome paternal line is Balkan, most likely Albanian / North West Greece. But my overall genetic profile is 95% "British and Irish".

    What was your overall genetic profile? Did you get something like "90% Ashkenazi"? Or was it more mixed up?

    By the way 23andme was also able to find some 2nd cousins of mine in Canada based on DNA matches alone, the technology is amazing!
  • so I got my DNA done and I'm a Khazar
     Reply #12 - August 04, 2015, 03:22 PM
    Has anyone tried this:  http://dna.ancestry.com
  • so I got my DNA done and I'm a Khazar
     Reply #13 - August 04, 2015, 03:24 PM
    That is more or less the same thing as what 23andme does. (the service that both Zimriel and I used). 23andMe also tell you what percentage of Neanderthal you are. I was something like 2.6% Neanderthal, which is above average.

    23andme.com
  • so I got my DNA done and I'm a Khazar
     Reply #14 - August 04, 2015, 03:41 PM
    Ooooooh this sounds like fun, if I had the money for it lol. I know a lot of my family history, more than a lot of other Americans, back as far as 17 generations for some lines of my ancestry. But I'd still be interested in it especially to see if I could find any of the people related to me by my polygamist ancestors lol.
    Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil, for I have a sonic screwdriver, a tricorder, and a Type 2 phaser.
  • so I got my DNA done and I'm a Khazar
     Reply #15 - August 04, 2015, 03:45 PM
    Quote from: Tonyt on August 04, 2015, 03:24 PM
    I was something like 2.6% Neanderthal, which is above average.


    I knew it!!

    lol  Wink
  • so I got my DNA done and I'm a Khazar
     Reply #16 - August 04, 2015, 03:52 PM
    Quote from: Hassan on August 04, 2015, 03:45 PM
    I knew it!!

    lol  Wink


    I mentioned my paternal line being Albanian, but that is simply the latest Y chromosome mutation, before that my paternal ancestors were in Egypt, the specific Y chromosome I have is E1b1b1a. E1b1b1 is Egyptian.

    So it turns we are brothers Hassan  Wink
  • so I got my DNA done and I'm a Khazar
     Reply #17 - August 04, 2015, 04:23 PM
    same here, maybe
  • so I got my DNA done and I'm a Khazar
     Reply #18 - August 04, 2015, 11:23 PM
    More results are in. M33c is more specifically, and even more incomprehensibly, Chinese. (Who knew?) Here's an article explaining this:
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4323646/

    Or, the video version:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xuvj13NTwUY

    So, I'm not Khazar after all - at least, as the direct line goes. But the M33c females *did* leave southern China after the Tang conquest of the Turks in the 600s CE, and managed to lodge themselves in a Jewish-friendly environment in eastern Europe. So I still think the Khazars must have helped.

    23andme hadn't caught up to that, so I was left looking at a map full of dark splodges in Ukraine, eastern central Asia, and Burma / northeast India (apparently where M33 *first* came from). Maybe my great-x-grandmother spoke Thai?
  • so I got my DNA done and I'm a Khazar
     Reply #19 - August 04, 2015, 11:27 PM
    Quote from: Tonyt on August 04, 2015, 03:10 PM
    What was your overall genetic profile? Did you get something like "90% Ashkenazi"? Or was it more mixed up?


    It's 26.6% Ashkenazi which means my grandmother was almost pure (I knew that), and some stray Ashkenazi genes entered into one or more of my other three grandparents' ancestries as well. Otherwise I'm mainly generic European, with a largish percentage of British-or-Irish. 0.1% East Asian. And 2.9% Neanderthal.
  • Reply #20
     Reply #20 - August 05, 2015, 03:51 AM
    does this mean that shlomo sand was right after all?
    "we stand firm calling to allah all the time,
    we let them know - bang! bang! - coz it's dawah time!"
  • so I got my DNA done and I'm a Khazar
     Reply #21 - August 05, 2015, 04:24 AM
    kephas: possibly, possibly not; but since my own DNA trace has turned out to be south Chinese (or Tibetan or Thai) and not Turkish (which is north), I don't think I have sufficient evidence to comment on that.

    I can say that the Khazars provided a safe space for Jews but I can't (anymore) say to what extent they actually were Jews.
  • so I got my DNA done and I'm a Khazar
     Reply #22 - August 05, 2015, 10:25 AM
    There is an article here about your maternal haplogroup's connection with Ashkenazis:

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4323646/
  • so I got my DNA done and I'm a Khazar
     Reply #23 - April 28, 2016, 05:35 PM
    New article - does this sound plausible?

    Localizing Ashkenazic Jews to primeval villages in the ancient Iranian lands of Ashkenaz

    http://gbe.oxfordjournals.org/content/early/2016/03/03/gbe.evw046.full.pdf
    Quote
    Abstract

    The Yiddish language is over one thousand years old and incorporates German, Slavic, and Hebrew elements. The prevalent view claims Yiddish has a German origin, whereas the opposing view posits a Slavic origin with strong Iranian and weak Turkic substrata. One of the major difficulties in deciding between these hypotheses is the unknown geographical origin of Yiddish speaking Ashkenazic Jews (AJs). An analysis of 393 Ashkenazic, Iranian, and mountain Jews and over 600 non-Jewish genomes demonstrated that Greeks, Romans, Iranians, and Turks exhibit the highest genetic similarity with AJs. The Geographic Population Structure (GPS) analysis localized most AJs along major primeval trade routes in northeastern Turkey adjacent to primeval villages with names that may be derived from “Ashkenaz.” Iranian and mountain Jews were localized along trade routes on the Turkey’s eastern border. Loss of maternal haplogroups was evident in non-Yiddish speaking AJs. Our results suggest that AJs originated from a Slavo-Iranian confederation, which the Jews call “Ashkenazic” (i.e., “Scythian”), though these Jews probably spoke Persian and/or Ossete. This is compatible with linguistic evidence suggesting that Yiddish is a Slavic language created by Irano-Turko-Slavic Jewish merchants along the Silk Roads as a cryptic trade language, spoken only by its originators to gain an advantage in trade. Later, in the 9th century, Yiddish underwent relexification by adopting a new vocabulary that consists of a minority of German and Hebrew and a majority of newly coined Germanoid and Hebroid elements that replaced most of the original Eastern Slavic and Sorbian vocabularies, while keeping the original grammars intact.

    Which side are you on?
  • so I got my DNA done and I'm a Khazar
     Reply #24 - May 06, 2016, 12:14 AM
    I just read Elhaik's article. I would have to be an expert in Iranian philology (which I am not) to decide on the linguistic parts of it.

    The rival Rhineland Hypothesis - Ashkenaz being from western Germany, and then exploding in population after moving east - has never smelled right to me, and it really falls down on my southeast Asian maternal DNA and the Central Asian DNA of others. Elhaik's thesis accounts better for this.

    He is also right to scoff at scholars who handwave Black Sea ancestry as "Mediterranean". A lot of that is political. Personally if I think I'm big enough to say Muslims are wrong, I should be big enough to hear someone say that Ashkenazi Jews are wrong from time to time too. :^)

    The one warning I *would* like to make is that Elhaik has not dug up DNA from the Black Sea during the time in question. As a result his thesis should (still) be ranked "better than the others" rather than "true". The good news is - it's falsifiable. It should, now, be a priority to get to Pontus and Crimea to go digging.
  • so I got my DNA done and I'm a Khazar
     Reply #25 - May 06, 2016, 02:53 PM
    Thanks Zimriel. Yes it looks to be a desk study based on results already collected so there must be scope for some targeted research. I can't say I understood much about the linguistics or the statistics.
    Which side are you on?
  • so I got my DNA done and I'm a Khazar
     Reply #26 - May 06, 2016, 03:19 PM
    A response by Eran Elhaik to criticisms of his study: https://khazardnaproject.wordpress.com/2016/05/05/responding-to-the-criticism-for-des-et-al-2016/
    Which side are you on?
  • so I got my DNA done and I'm a Khazar
     Reply #27 - May 07, 2016, 08:26 AM
    Quote from: Tonyt on August 04, 2015, 03:10 PM
    The pairing of elite wealthy high achieving Jewish men with elite wealthy Roman women from high achieving families is what may have given Ashkenazi Jews such high IQs (they have higher measured IQs than any other group).






     Cheesy  What the fuck ever.


    You read it, therefore it must be true. 

    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • so I got my DNA done and I'm a Khazar
     Reply #28 - May 07, 2016, 09:11 PM
    I think it is more likely, that the best achieving son was the one who inherited in the jewish families.
    In the non-jewish, it was the first born (no matter how dumb he was) who got the good stuff.
    The other sons? Should someone be intelligent but not violent enough, celibacy and a church career was ready for him. If he was intelligent and violent, the army was just the place. In both cases, removal from the gene pool was likely.

  • so I got my DNA done and I'm a Khazar
     Reply #29 - May 07, 2016, 09:21 PM
     ::
    Quote from: Tonyt on August 04, 2015, 03:24 PM
    That is more or less the same thing as what 23andme does. (the service that both Zimriel and I used). 23andMe also tell you what percentage of Neanderthal you are. I was something like 2.6% Neanderthal, which is above average.

    23andme.com



    If you ask my wife, I'm sure she will insist that I am at least 25% neanderthal (without any genetic testing done at all).



    But it seems a lot of "well established truths " about who's who, and where they came from have been shattered by genetic analysis.
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