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 Topic: another ex-muslim (in the closet)

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  • another ex-muslim (in the closet)
     OP - July 07, 2015, 05:33 PM

    Hello there!

    I've only been lurking here for the past week, but reading some of the posts here makes me feel glad that I'm not alone.  Smiley

    I'd like to tell you how I got here, at this point.

    1. Myself
    I'm from Malaysia. I'm born and raised as a devout muslim.
    I'm always surrounded by the local muslims (friends and family) and I was truly sure that Islam is the true one religion.
    My indoctrination comes mainly from my parents who studied in Egypt (even though their major wasn't Islamic Studies)

    I will live and die as muslim, is what I thought.  Tongue

    2. Change
    The turnabout came when I met and fell in love with a man from another country who is a non-muslim.
    He is a Buddhist and seems to be practicing only because of tradition. I think he's more of an agnostic.
    It doesn't matter though, he's a lovely man and we want to spend the rest of our lives together.

    Anyways, even before starting the relationship, we've discussed religion matters. He's smart enough to search on the net by himself before I could explain. (Convert to Islam before we can get married, pray 5 times a day, avoid alcohol, pork, bla bla bla)
    Needless to say, he didn't like the prospect of being a muslim.
    But he really does want to be with me, saying he wants to marry me not my religion. He is willing to  convert to Islam for me but he won't be practicing it. He has no intention of being a "good muslim".

    3. I'm right
    At this moment, I was still convinced that my religion is The One.
    I wanted to convince my non-muslim boyfriend that Islam is the best religion in the world. I want him to WANT to be a "good muslim".
    But to convince him I need the facts, I thought.
    First, I'll find out how Islam is "the best religion" for me.

    While I asked him to do his own study, I did some study myself.

    In the start, I followed my instincts and I felt that Islam should be easy and wonderful.
    But I find there are parts which are too strict like women must always wear the hijab, type of meat that's considered halal, alcohol consumption complete no-no, and the many things I feel very petty.

    Then, through a muslim blogger who had converted her non-muslim husband, I was introduced to Shabbir Ahmed's works. Did anyone else read his books?

    Reading his downloadable pdfs make me see Islam in another light.
    All this absurdities come from the Hadith where She said He said some crappity crap.
    So I figured "only the Quran has the true answers!!".
    Islam is easy! ..and wonderful! ...right?

    4. Doubts
    But something still bugs me. Like, why was Islam only sent to certain small parts of the world? Heaven only for muslims while non-muslims  go to hell? What about those benevolent non-muslims who had no exposure to Islam? Where are their justice?

    While my boyfriend who is starting to read the Qur'an showed me (9:5).
    He says that the more he studied it the more he's scared of Islam.. ha ha...

    I didn't blame him though. By this time, I've started to doubt Islam itself. Doesn't seem so wonderful now.
    I feel a bit embarrassed now shoving some of my Islamic Ideals onto him...

    For ease of my confused mind, my boyfriend advised me to find some like-minded muslims...
    And not long after that, I found this oasis of a forum. Like-minded EX-muslims aren't bad either. lol
    Lurking here, I've been absorbing materials which in the past I would've never glanced at all.

    5. Present
    At this moment, I don't want my non-muslim boyfriend to convert anymore. Having him convert feels like I'm dragging him to pits of crazies.
    If anything, I'm the one who wants to deconvert.
    But the prospects of being shunned and cut off from my family is a big price to pay..

    a) In the back of my head, I still have that plan where I just run away from my country, and live with him in his country. Marriage would be difficult, I think.

    b) The other plan is to lie ....and then run away. He converts and we put an act as muslims in my country to get married and then live a non-muslim relaxed life in his country. Although, always lying is...tiring...isn't it?

    What do you guys think?
    Sorry if it was too long... may I have a parrot, please?  dance
  • another ex-muslim (in the closet)
     Reply #1 - July 07, 2015, 05:46 PM

    You may indeed. Welcome to CEMB. parrot

    Since conversion is out the question what does have to be asked is what you want. I have a friend that went through the exact same thing as you, only the man she fell for was an atheist who lives in England. She managed to visit the country earlier this year and, realising that her family would never accept her relationship and not feeling any real ties, applied for a job abroad (which she got) with the eventual plan of moving to Britain.

    The thing I would point out is that she realised in her country of birth she would never be happy or free to be herself. Her country is very religious, whereas England isn't. Her family wouldn't accept her partner, whereas his family fully accepts her. So it wasn't really an option for her not to leave unless she was ready to live a life of misery, secrets and lies. Is this the case for you?

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • another ex-muslim (in the closet)
     Reply #2 - July 07, 2015, 06:14 PM

    Welcome. 2  parrot parrot

    Clearly plan a). Run away and live with him in his country. Marry him (why would be difficult?) and build you own family. When you will have kids you have your own family and you won't miss so much your parents if they choose to stop speak with you. Maybe now you don't realize as you are still young, but the most important thing for you will be your children. Do you want them to get through all the problems that you had/have?

    You will sacrifice your life, but you will save them from this.
  • another ex-muslim (in the closet)
     Reply #3 - July 08, 2015, 08:17 AM

    Welcome to the forum shu-cream.

    I'm sorry you're in this situation. It actually sounds quite familiar to something I went through in the past.

    I hope you come up with a solution that makes your life easy. I know how hard it is to even consider cutting all ties with your family. If it were up to me, out of your two solutions I would pick the second one, at least partially. Having him convert and having a religious marriage isn't so bad, I'd think, so long as you both know it's just a show you're putting on for your family's benefit. I know that it sucks having to lie, but you don't need to lie all your life. If, after you have settled in your SO's country and have started your life together, you can simply come out to your parents when you feel that you can't lie to them anymore. They might not cut you out of their lives, since as far as appearances in their community are concerned, you are living a happy and righteous life with a muslim husband. I say that knowing that for my parents, appearances are primordial.

    In any case, good luck. I hope your boyfriend supports you through all of it.  far away hug

    He's no friend to the friendless
    And he's the mother of grief
    There's only sorrow for tomorrow
    Surely life is too brief
  • another ex-muslim (in the closet)
     Reply #4 - July 08, 2015, 07:42 PM

    Hey Quod Sun Eris
    Yayy parrot!! Thanks!

    I'm happy you replied! I've lurked here and I see your post here and there. I think you're hillarious!  Grin

    The thing I would point out is that she realised in her country of birth she would never be happy or free to be herself. Her country is very religious, whereas England isn't. Her family wouldn't accept her partner, whereas his family fully accepts her. So it wasn't really an option for her not to leave unless she was ready to live a life of misery, secrets and lies. Is this the case for you?


    To be honest, my sudden change of opinion of Islam is quite recent. It's a gradual process.
    Not long ago, I was the girl who judge any muslim who "sin".. muslims who don't wear hijab.. muslims who have sex.. muslims who drink alcohol.. muslim who party a lot..
    I don't voice it out loud but in my head I'd think "you're going to hell" and "I pray I won't be like you". I seriously thought I was better..ughh

    The negative thoughts died down though. Especially after I tried half of the sin I said above (secretly, in my SO's country). Thinking it now, I was probably jealous that I wasn't part of the club haha..ha..

    But...yeah, I realise now that I'm just scared of being judged by other muslims, especially my family.

    My parents won't be happy that he wasn't born a muslim, but at least they won't feel as disappointed if he converts to Islam.. So, conversion is not totally out of the question.

    Thinking of how disappointed my family would be when they know I'm the one who want to de-convert, it almost feels like life of misery, secrets and lies ain't so bad...
    I've unintentionally disappointed them many times before and boy do I feel GUILTY. And now I'm thinking to disappoint them by choice?
    I'm the youngest among my siblings and the only one not married. Also, I'm quite used to being my parent's pride and joy...

    Whose feelings am I protecting? Whose life am I living? I'm torn   Cry

    I do like to think that someday I'd come to a full resolution like your friend in England...
  • another ex-muslim (in the closet)
     Reply #5 - July 08, 2015, 07:45 PM

    Hi nbhb!

    2 parrots!!  Now I can breed them to make more baby parrots!
    Thank you~

    It is difficult to marry him in his country. While there's no need to perform nikah, a lot of paperwork needs to be done. From my online research, I think I have to submit a particular document from the immigration of my country saying that I'm allowed to get married there (which I don't think is possible because I'm a muslim. The non-muslim in my country sure have it easy..)

    Plus, I still care about my family to suddenly run away to be with him.
    But I see your point.. as of now, I don't whether I should be selfish to my parents, or to my children and family.. my mind is still in a mess.  Undecided
  • another ex-muslim (in the closet)
     Reply #6 - July 08, 2015, 07:51 PM

    Thank you Naerys!

    shu-cream is actually synonim to cream puff (in my SO's language). I'm bad at coming up with names... I like cream puffs.

    Thank you for understanding. What you said is definitely on the lines of what I was thinking!
    I love him but I still love my family.
    I'm just so obsessed of getting approval and avoiding disappointment.
    Which is why I learn to lie.. although I always get burned out.

    My boyfriend does support me. He's always readily understanding.
    It was hard for him, but he offered to convert just for me.
    I came up with the idea of running away, but he's really worried if I'd get lonely cutting ties with my family.

    I'm still not sure how this will go, but I think I'm going to keep updated here. Talking to you guys clears my mind a little, considering I can't discuss this with anyone.
    far away hug
  • another ex-muslim (in the closet)
     Reply #7 - July 09, 2015, 03:16 AM

    My friend's deconversion was sudden as well. Also she's not moving to England, her job is in a different country but is planning on settling in England afterwards. Fear of judgement is someone most people experience. It's a very human fear. Ultimately you have to decide if you're going to live your life for yourself or for others.

    Hey Quod Sun Eris
    Yayy parrot!! Thanks!

    I'm happy you replied! I've lurked here and I see your post here and there. I think you're hillarious!  Grin


    Also good looking. If you ever need to find me, just google sexy beast. yes

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • another ex-muslim (in the closet)
     Reply #8 - July 09, 2015, 09:28 AM

    Hi nbhb!

    2 parrots!!  Now I can breed them to make more baby parrots!
    Thank you~

    It is difficult to marry him in his country. While there's no need to perform nikah, a lot of paperwork needs to be done. From my online research, I think I have to submit a particular document from the immigration of my country saying that I'm allowed to get married there (which I don't think is possible because I'm a muslim. The non-muslim in my country sure have it easy..)

    Plus, I still care about my family to suddenly run away to be with him.
    But I see your point.. as of now, I don't whether I should be selfish to my parents, or to my children and family.. my mind is still in a mess.  Undecided


    Okay, then take the plan b).

    If you ever have to decide whom to be selfish between you parents and yourself and your future children, the answer is only one: yourself and you future children. Trust me, you will understand this later.
  • another ex-muslim (in the closet)
     Reply #9 - August 21, 2015, 08:53 AM

    I'm sorry for keeping quiet.

    What you guys told me have been going around my head on and on and on and on... all the while stalking this forum and other sites and blogs...

    My friend's deconversion was sudden as well. Also she's not moving to England, her job is in a different country but is planning on settling in England afterwards. Fear of judgement is someone most people experience. It's a very human fear. Ultimately you have to decide if you're going to live your life for yourself or for others.

    Also good looking. If you ever need to find me, just google sexy beast. yes


    I would really like to know more of the story of your friend in detail, if you or she is willing to share..

    and Quod, you Sexy Beast, I've even found a movie (2000) with your title!  Cheesy

    Okay, then take the plan b).

    If you ever have to decide whom to be selfish between you parents and yourself and your future children, the answer is only one: yourself and you future children. Trust me, you will understand this later.


    Thanks nbhb.
    I've made up my mind and I plan to run away.

    But either by lying, or coming out beforehand..I'm still not sure.
    Should I marry him here (Islamically) then run away, or should I run away and then marrying him there after naturalizing.. I really don't know.

    Making my own decisions is so much harder than just obeying and being spoon-fed.
    I need a stronger resolution to make the final decision.

    By the way, am I allowed to make PM here? or should I ask for permission publicly first?
  • another ex-muslim (in the closet)
     Reply #10 - August 21, 2015, 10:48 AM

    You can do it!  parrot

    Claiming control of your life and your future happiness can be difficult, painful, even dangerous. But you can do it!

     far away hug

    I'd love to say more but it's almost 4 am in my neck of the woods. I'd better go to bed.

    Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil, for I have a sonic screwdriver, a tricorder, and a Type 2 phaser.
  • another ex-muslim (in the closet)
     Reply #11 - August 21, 2015, 04:01 PM

    So I finally read your story. I can understand you're very confused. Although my story is not quite the same as yours it does still have some similarities. My now husband is an atheist as well and does not believe in marriage but he agreed to pretend to be Muslim (he's Arab like me so it does make things easier) and compromised and married me so we could live together without living in fear of my parents finding out (we managed to live together for almost two years with my parents living two hours away  Cheesy)
    Now we can live our non-Islamic life together without worrying about my family finding out and it wasn't so bad to have a wedding, our families were happy, we enjoyed dancing with family and friends and we had a nice experience. So perhaps a few white lies would ensure everyone would be able to get along with each other and you wouldn't have to cut your ties with your family but simply just move to his country? Smiley no matter what you decide, I wish you the best of luck Smiley

    You are the Universe, Expressing itself as a Human for a little while- Eckhart Tolle
  • another ex-muslim (in the closet)
     Reply #12 - August 21, 2015, 04:29 PM

    Welcome again and have another rabbit shu-cream!  bunny

    how fuck works without shit??


    Let's Play Chess!

    harakaat, friend, RIP
  • another ex-muslim (in the closet)
     Reply #13 - August 21, 2015, 05:26 PM

    Hi Shu-Cream. I see others have already given some good advice.

    Welcome. I'll give you a bunny  bunny
  • another ex-muslim (in the closet)
     Reply #14 - August 21, 2015, 06:08 PM

    Hi Shu-Cream.

    I'm a Danish Dane in Denmark and every time a non-(Northern)-European or non-USAian signs up I fall even more in love with this place 001_wub

    My eldest little brother's wife (my sister-in-law) is ethnically half Malay and has a very dark complexion (despite her mom being a pale German (how they all ended up in rural Denmark is beyond me but her mom's tales of a bombed out Germany probably is a hint)) but as her Malaysian family are technically Catholics they aren't "real" Malays.

    The family there live in/around Kuala Lumpur so they are mostly ignorant about what happens in other parts of Malaysia though.

    But I again forget my manners! Smiley Welcome. Glad to have you here parrot

    Danish Never-Moose adopted by the kind people on the CEMB-forum
    Ex-Muslim chat (Unaffliated with CEMB). Safari users: Use "#ex-muslims" as the channel name. CEMB chat thread.
  • another ex-muslim (in the closet)
     Reply #15 - August 24, 2015, 03:57 PM

    Welcome. Wink
  • another ex-muslim (in the closet)
     Reply #16 - August 26, 2015, 02:50 PM

    You can do it!  parrot

    Claiming control of your life and your future happiness can be difficult, painful, even dangerous. But you can do it!

     far away hug

    I'd love to say more but it's almost 4 am in my neck of the woods. I'd better go to bed.


    Thank you so much  far away hug

    Please take care of your health.
  • another ex-muslim (in the closet)
     Reply #17 - August 26, 2015, 03:06 PM

    So I finally read your story. I can understand you're very confused. Although my story is not quite the same as yours it does still have some similarities. My now husband is an atheist as well and does not believe in marriage but he agreed to pretend to be Muslim (he's Arab like me so it does make things easier) and compromised and married me so we could live together without living in fear of my parents finding out (we managed to live together for almost two years with my parents living two hours away  Cheesy)
    Now we can live our non-Islamic life together without worrying about my family finding out and it wasn't so bad to have a wedding, our families were happy, we enjoyed dancing with family and friends and we had a nice experience. So perhaps a few white lies would ensure everyone would be able to get along with each other and you wouldn't have to cut your ties with your family but simply just move to his country? Smiley no matter what you decide, I wish you the best of luck Smiley


    Thank you so much for going through my ramblings.

    You're so lucky to have an understanding husband. Having a partner of the same race really does makes it easier.

    I actually introduced my non-muslim, non-malaysian boyfriend to my older brother and sister (not to my strict father yet). This is when he visited Malaysia a few weeks ago. They're kind of open-minded then, but now they keep asking if he's started practicing Islam or not.

    My boyfriend would have to learn the basics from zero.. in which I don't think I have the will to teach him, especially when I know he's not really interested.
    A simple white lie would take whopping crazy effort. Not worth it I think...

    So I'm planning to be selfish and go there to be with him (8 hours of flight away from my family here )
    Can't wait to be criticized and ostracized by the people I know!  dance

    And thank you for your story and support, Ishtar! This community never cease to amaze me.
  • another ex-muslim (in the closet)
     Reply #18 - August 26, 2015, 03:11 PM

    Welcome again and have another rabbit shu-cream!  bunny


    Thank you asbie.
    Dance little bunny, dance!

    Hi Shu-Cream. I see others have already given some good advice.

    Welcome. I'll give you a bunny  bunny


    So many awesome people here. Thank you, inception!
    Dance for all eternity! mwahaha~
  • another ex-muslim (in the closet)
     Reply #19 - August 26, 2015, 03:35 PM

    Hi Shu-Cream.

    I'm a Danish Dane in Denmark and every time a non-(Northern)-European or non-USAian signs up I fall even more in love with this place 001_wub

    My eldest little brother's wife (my sister-in-law) is ethnically half Malay and has a very dark complexion (despite her mom being a pale German (how they all ended up in rural Denmark is beyond me but her mom's tales of a bombed out Germany probably is a hint)) but as her Malaysian family are technically Catholics they aren't "real" Malays.

    The family there live in/around Kuala Lumpur so they are mostly ignorant about what happens in other parts of Malaysia though.

    But I again forget my manners! Smiley Welcome. Glad to have you here parrot


    Thank you nikolaj!

    I fell in love with this place when I read posts from nice people like you 001_wub

    How is Denmark? Have you been to Malaysia?

    Being catholic, you sister-in-law must've had it easier marrying your brother, I assume.
    I can't wish to be born a non-muslim now...
    Why oh why Malaysia? Why can't a Malay be other than Islam..? finmad
  • another ex-muslim (in the closet)
     Reply #20 - August 26, 2015, 03:36 PM

    Welcome. Wink


    thnkyu
  • another ex-muslim (in the closet)
     Reply #21 - August 26, 2015, 03:42 PM

    Welcome
  • another ex-muslim (in the closet)
     Reply #22 - August 29, 2015, 10:04 PM

    Welcome  parrot

    I hope you'll find a solution.
  • another ex-muslim (in the closet)
     Reply #23 - August 30, 2015, 12:38 AM

     bunny Welcome shu-cream  bunny
    And good luck!
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