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 Topic: Cameron pushes BBC tot to call IS Islamic State

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  • Cameron pushes BBC tot to call IS Islamic State
     OP - June 30, 2015, 07:37 AM
    Him and 120 other MPs have called to stop the use of the term as it apparently "legitimises" the organisation as being Islamic when it's apparently "not". Grrr, Islamic State is Islamic as it draws from Islamic texts.

    http://www.theguardian.com/media/2015/jun/29/bbc-to-review-use-of-islamic-state-after-mps-protest-against-term
  • Cameron pushes BBC tot to call IS Islamic State
     Reply #1 - June 30, 2015, 07:39 AM
    We usually call groups by their name, however I see his point while also disagreeing with it. I don't think calling them something else will stop the supporters flocking to them. Apparently Cameron does.
    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Cameron pushes BBC tot to call IS Islamic State
     Reply #2 - June 30, 2015, 08:00 AM
    He's an idiot!
  • Cameron pushes BBC tot to call IS Islamic State
     Reply #3 - June 30, 2015, 09:53 AM
    Googles 'BBC tot'.

  • Cameron pushes BBC tot to call IS Islamic State
     Reply #4 - June 30, 2015, 10:19 AM
    One of Bin Ladens regrets was how his organization came to be called Al-Qaida

    Quote
    In this letter, Bin Laden regrets that his organization?s original name, ?Qa?ida al-Jihad?, has come to be known as simply ?al-Qa?ida.? The abridgement, he writes, ?reduces the feeling of Muslims that we belong to them, and allows the enemies to claim deceptively that they are not at war with Islam and Muslims.? Rather, the United States could claim that it was at war only with the al-Qaida organization, which it depicted as ?an outside entity from the teachings of Islam.? Bin Laden complains that Obama has ?repeatedly? made this argument. Therefore, he concluded, if al-Qaida adopted a new name, which included a reference to Islam, ?it would be difficult for him to say? that he wasn?t at war with Islam.


    http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2012/05/osama_bin_laden_s_papers_he_wished_obama_would_continue_bush_s_war_on_terror_.html

  • Cameron pushes BBC tot to call IS Islamic State
     Reply #5 - June 30, 2015, 10:20 AM
    For some reason '' '' become ? ? whenever I post here
  • Cameron pushes BBC tot to call IS Islamic State
     Reply #6 - June 30, 2015, 10:41 AM
    Admit it, you're drunk.
  • Cameron pushes BBC tot to call IS Islamic State
     Reply #7 - June 30, 2015, 02:14 PM
    Quote from: David on June 30, 2015, 09:53 AM
    Googles 'BBC tot'.


    I'm sorry, but I'm not going to post the results of any google search for BBC on here. I know the internet too well. Grin
    Quote from: yeezevee on February 11, 2016, 02:05 PM
    how fuck works without shit??


    Let's Play Chess!

    harakaat, friend, RIP
  • Cameron pushes BBC tot to call IS Islamic State
     Reply #8 - June 30, 2015, 02:39 PM
    PC friendly nonsense. Its like dropping German and Workers lest if offend Germans and workers from National Socialist German Workers' Party
  • Cameron pushes BBC tot to call IS Islamic State
     Reply #9 - June 30, 2015, 04:28 PM
     I dont think its because of PC friendliness. Just about ten days ago he said
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-33195611

    The idea of not calling the Islamic State the Islamic State makes sense, even though its draws its values from Islamic traditions. As I quoted above, the name of al-Qaida was one of things Bin Ladens regreted.

    Quote
    In this letter, Bin Laden regrets that his organization?s original name, ''Qa'ida al-Jihad'', has come to be known as simply ''al-Qa'ida.'' The abridgement, he writes, ''reduces the feeling of Muslims that we belong to them, and allows the enemies to claim deceptively that they are not at war with Islam and Muslims.'' Rather, the United States could claim that it was at war only with the al-Qaida organization, which it depicted as ''an outside entity from the teachings of Islam.'' Bin Laden complains that Obama has ''repeatedly'' made this argument. Therefore, he concluded, if al-Qaida adopted a new name, which included a reference to Islam, ''it would be difficult for him to say'' that he wasn't at war with Islam.

    http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2012/05/osama_bin_laden_s_papers_he_wished_obama_would_continue_bush_s_war_on_terror_.html

    They should just call it ISIL, not the Caliphate not the Islamic State, just ISIL. There's no need to sell the brand name the Islamic State, they already are doing that themselves.
  • Cameron pushes BBC tot to call IS Islamic State
     Reply #10 - June 30, 2015, 04:54 PM
    Quote from: Skywalker on June 30, 2015, 04:28 PM
    I dont think its because of PC friendliness. Just about ten days ago he said
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-33195611

    .....The idea of not calling the Islamic State the Islamic State makes sense, even though its draws its values from Islamic traditions. ....................

      let me add a word or two to that

    ".....The idea of not calling the Islamic State the Islamic State makes sense, even though its draws its values  from SOME EARLY  Islamic traditions ..."

    well help David Cameron with some words on those Idiots in Iraq ..  

    ISIS.....ISIL...... IS...SIC.....'Daesh'... whatever

    Some   Islamic  Shit from Idiots and Loafers  

    such   as https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moro_Islamic_Liberation_Front   "Moro Islamic Liberation Front"... Milfs....

     
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • Cameron pushes BBC tot to call IS Islamic State
     Reply #11 - June 30, 2015, 10:40 PM
    Quote from: Skywalker on June 30, 2015, 04:28 PM
    I dont think its because of PC friendliness. Just about ten days ago he said
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-33195611

    The idea of not calling the Islamic State the Islamic State makes sense, even though its draws its values from Islamic traditions. As I quoted above, the name of al-Qaida was one of things Bin Ladens regreted.
    http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2012/05/osama_bin_laden_s_papers_he_wished_obama_would_continue_bush_s_war_on_terror_.html

    They should just call it ISIL, not the Caliphate not the Islamic State, just ISIL. There's no need to sell the brand name the Islamic State, they already are doing that themselves.


    The same can be applied to Hamas, Hezbollah, etc. IS has a government, it controls territory, it does not matter if other nations recognize it as one or not. No more than the North Korea refusing to recognize South Korea and vice-verse or China and Taiwan. No one is concerned about offending China nor if recognizing Taiwan undermines China.

    ISIL is still a state.... Islamic State in Iraq and the Levant. Nothing more than PC friendly nonsense in the end. Heck look at his own words in the article, he is still calling it Is, he just adds the territory it control to the name. Its a PR move, nothing more.

    "I personally think that using the term Isil or ‘so-called’ would be better than what [the BBC] currently do,” Cameron said. “I don’t think we’ll move them all the way to Daesh, so I think saying Isil is probably better than Islamic State because it is neither, in my view, Islamic or a state.”

    People call Hamas a political party while it is still a terrorist organization. Does this not provide legitimacy according to Cameron. Its double-talk in order to appease people that show know better.
  • Cameron pushes BBC tot to call IS Islamic State
     Reply #12 - June 30, 2015, 10:53 PM
    If he was being pc friendly, why did he say this, just a few days ago:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-33195611
  • Cameron pushes BBC tot to call IS Islamic State
     Reply #13 - June 30, 2015, 10:56 PM
    Its double talk all politicians use. If ISIL or whatever has support from Muslim communities then it does have religious appeal to some. Let not pretend it some quasi-plural religious group nor that it even represents Muslims as a whole.
  • Cameron pushes BBC tot to call IS Islamic State
     Reply #14 - June 30, 2015, 11:19 PM
    Think about it. "Do not call it IS, call it ISIL instead or so-called." His point is completely incoherent.
  • Cameron pushes BBC tot to call IS Islamic State
     Reply #15 - July 01, 2015, 12:35 AM
    Quote
    ?I personally think that using the term Isil or ?so-called? would be better than what [the BBC] currently do,? Cameron said. ?I don?t think we?ll move them all the way to Daesh, so I think saying Isil is probably better than Islamic State because it is neither, in my view, Islamic or a state.?

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-33195611

    He's complaining about the use oft the words 'Islamic State' rather than IS, even though IS is short for Islamic State. If fewer in the media had used those words, IS or ISIL might have become something similar to what happened to Al Qaida
    If you look at what Bin Laden said when complaining about abridgement of his organizations name

    Quote
    In this letter, Bin Laden regrets that his organizations original name, ''Qa'ida al-Jihad'', has come to be known as simply ''al-Qa'ida.'' The abridgement, he writes, ''reduces the feeling of Muslims that we belong to them, and allows the enemies to claim deceptively that they are not at war with Islam and Muslims.'' Rather, the United States could claim that it was at war only with the al-Qaida organization, which it depicted as ''an outside entity from the teachings of Islam.''Bin Laden complains that Obama has ''repeatedly'' made this argument. Therefore, he concluded, if al-Qaida adopted a new name, which included a reference to Islam, ''it would be difficult for him to say'' that he wasn't at war with Islam.

    http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2012/05/osama_bin_laden_s_papers_he_wished_obama_would_continue_bush_s_war_on_terror_.html

    Its not only Cameron who is not calling them Islamic State, several western countries are. Last year I read a debate between ISIL and AQ jihadis,and in that debate, AQ jihadis were arguing that Syria is for JN and Iraq for ISIL. To which ISIL jihadis responded that the Islamic state does not recognize Sykes-Picot(which made those countries separate). AQ jihadis pointed out the irony in their name 'Islamic State in Iraq and Syria', as it seems to recognize those borders. A few weeks later ISIS or ISIL became Islamic State and declared a Caliphate.

    ISIL relies on Islamic symbols, undermining their message of being the Islamic State or the Caliphate is probably not unreasonable,even though its tricks with words. Maybe those Western countries who don't use 'Islamic State' are being PC. I think they are being more than PC, I think that they read communications between jihadis and the Bin Laden letters before they decided that this is a way to undermine the message of ISIL.
  • Cameron pushes BBC tot to call IS Islamic State
     Reply #16 - July 01, 2015, 03:51 AM
    I think the West's views would do little to undermine IS regardless if we call it anything. Still calling it an abbreviation is useless since the name is still there. Muslim nations and leaders need to be the the ones taking these steps, not the West. History is all too clear that those that blame the West for problems will not care what it calls any group. They are already convince the West is a problem. Those that sympathize with IS are already convince since the form of Islam they know is capability with the form IS embraces. A name is meaningless when there are videos of IS executing people for anyone with the internet and pc can see for themselves. If people can not figure out IS is comprised of psychopaths, opportunists, gullible and indoctrinated as new name does nothing.  I still believe it is a PC move to appease normal Muslims that are hypersensitive to have Islam associated with IS. It is nothing more than a No True Scotsman fallacy in order to avoid the uncomfortable fact that IS is comprised of Muslims following a form of Islam. People do with this any group of co-religionists that hold different views. I do not see Obama nor Cameron making statements that various Christian groups in Africa slaughter people are not Christian nor following the bible. It's PR, nothing more.

    Either call a spade a spade or just call them psychopathic terrorists and stop beating around the bush. The later is what I think they are regardless of whatever text they use to justify their crimes.
  • Cameron pushes BBC tot to call IS Islamic State
     Reply #17 - July 01, 2015, 10:59 AM
    Quote
    I still believe it is a PC move to appease normal Muslims that are hypersensitive to have Islam associated with IS. It is nothing more than a No True Scotsman fallacy in order to avoid the uncomfortable fact that IS is comprised of Muslims following a form of Islam. People do with this any group of co-religionists that hold different views. .

    I do think that maybe partly true,but not the entire reason.

    Quote
    I think the West's views would do little to undermine IS regardless if we call it anything. Still calling it an abbreviation is useless since the name is still there. Muslim nations and leaders need to be the the ones taking these steps, not the West. History is all too clear that those that blame the West for problems will not care what it calls any group. They are already convince the West is a problem. Those that sympathize with IS are already convince since the form of Islam they know is capability with the form IS embraces. A name is meaningless when there are videos of IS executing people for anyone with the internet and pc can see for themselves. If people can not figure out IS is comprised of psychopaths, opportunists, gullible and indoctrinated as new name does nothing.

    If this is true, why did Bin Laden care and why did IS change names?
  • Cameron pushes BBC tot to call IS Islamic State
     Reply #18 - July 03, 2015, 09:05 AM
    Since there is an ideology taught within Muslim communities that leads to the development of IS and anti-western mindsets. bin Laden knew of it and tried to exploit it. Cameron is misplacing his effect since it will not effect people already holding this mindset. It will only appeal to those that are unconformable with the groups like IS within Islam. The ideology itself and those that teach it must be removed from the community itself.
  • Cameron pushes BBC tot to call IS Islamic State
     Reply #19 - July 03, 2015, 01:13 PM
    Even if you don't want to call it Islam, or even one of many Islams, you would still have to call it religion. I don't see why Cameron thinks it matters what name this religion has. It's not as if Islam is true, whereas 'Daeshism' is false.
    Why bend over backwards to praise one, and condemn the other? Just because the levels of violence differ? I think that is an arbitrary distinction. In all important regards, they are equal. Including the most important of all. They are both equally nonsense.

  • Cameron pushes BBC tot to call IS Islamic State
     Reply #20 - July 05, 2015, 04:23 AM
    Quote from: Skywalker on June 30, 2015, 10:19 AM
    One of Bin Ladens regrets was how his organization came to be called Al-Qaida

    http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2012/05/osama_bin_laden_s_papers_he_wished_obama_would_continue_bush_s_war_on_terror_.html



    I do wonder just how much it mattered though. Al-qaida had a phenomenal amount of support, both in terms of fighters, financiers, respect and grass roots support. What Bin Laden wanted with the 9/11 attacks was a holy war, for the "West" to declare war on the religion of islam itself. This backfired when world leaders around the globe visited mosques and said this is a war against terrorists, not muslims/islam. This promoted a frantic damage control to assure muslims that, no, it is a war against the religion itself. It also did nothing as far as people being able to hear the messages and justifications.

    I see much the same with the islamic state. Whether or not the BBC refers to them as islamic state has no bearing on their theologically and politically entwined messages spreading.
    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Cameron pushes BBC tot to call IS Islamic State
     Reply #21 - July 20, 2015, 10:39 PM
     Jihadis themselves think it matters that their name is associated with Islam to their message. Im not sure it matters alot that BBC calls them Islamic State or not.
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