Skip navigation
Sidebar -

Advanced search options →

Welcome

Welcome to CEMB forum.
Please login or register. Did you miss your activation email?

Donations

Help keep the Forum going!
Click on Kitty to donate:

Kitty is lost

Recent Posts


Qur'anic studies today
by zeca
Today at 02:45 PM

اضواء على الطريق ....... ...
by akay
Today at 12:50 PM

Do humans have needed kno...
Today at 04:17 AM

What's happened to the fo...
by zeca
Yesterday at 06:39 PM

New Britain
Yesterday at 05:41 PM

Do humans have needed kno...
Yesterday at 05:47 AM

Iran launches drones
April 13, 2024, 09:56 PM

عيد مبارك للجميع! ^_^
by akay
April 12, 2024, 04:01 PM

Eid-Al-Fitr
by akay
April 12, 2024, 12:06 PM

Lights on the way
by akay
February 01, 2024, 12:10 PM

Mock Them and Move on., ...
January 30, 2024, 10:44 AM

Pro Israel or Pro Palesti...
January 29, 2024, 01:53 PM

Theme Changer

 Topic: Yes I AM a Muslim!!

 (Read 15596 times)
  • 12 3 ... 6 Next page « Previous thread | Next thread »
  • Yes I AM a Muslim!!
     OP - June 10, 2015, 10:19 AM

    I just posted this on Facebook - you're welcome to comment on Facebook if you want Smiley

    https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=1658774761024013&id=100006745147497

    ************************

    Yes I AM a Muslim!!

    I believe; "There is no god but God and Muhammad is his messenger!"

    I was born a Muslim and spent half a century (I'm 56) as a devout Muslim. I went through a serious crisis of faith a few years ago, but have rediscovered my faith recently and still identify with Islam. It is the spiritual tradition I grew up in and know well. I love and feel comfortable amongst Muslims and in prayer, du'a, fasting and many other Islamic practices.

    Having said that my views did change during my crisis of faith. Nevertheless I decided that rather than excommunicate myself because my views differed to many of the traditional beliefs, I would continue to label myself Muslim as I believe God gave me the ability to think and decide for myself and it is up to him to judge what is in my heart.

    I also decided to be very open and up front about my views and anyone reading my Facebook Page can see that. I believe in God but at the same time I am Agnostic. Belief and knowledge are two different things. I believe - and hope - that there is a God, but I don't know for certain there is one. In fact I believe that 'certainty' about such metaphysical matters does not exist. It is impossible to either prove nor disprove the existence of God with 100% certainty.

    I also believe Muhammad was inspired by God to utter the words of the Qur'an. But I believe this inspiration came through the mind and person of Muhammad and that it was he who interpreted this inspiration according to his time, culture and personality. He composed the words and phrased the sentences. As a result I believe that while the Qur'an contains a great deal of wisdom, it is inextricably tied to it's context and environment and most important of all; it is fallible NOT infallible! This means that while the Qur'an will always be a source of inspiration for me - it must be subject to human reason and not the other way round. It has been 1400 years since Muhammad received the Qur'an and the world has changed. Circumstances have changed. Relationships between men and women have changed. Man himself has changed. I believe strongly that we must look at the Qur'an with a fresh set of eyes - one that recognises it's "human" origin and one that applies our own 'human' reason in light of our present context and circumstances.

    I strongly support ex-Muslims who wish to leave Islam if they want to and I am keen to break the taboo that prevents them from doing so. I support everyones right to believe or not believe in what they want without fear of threats, abuse, or sanctions. I support human rights, equality, pluralism & secular democracy, (I recognise it is flawed - but everything human is flawed - including the Qur'an!)

    When I told an Ex-Muslim friend of mine my position and that I was going to be open and public about it he supported me 100% but said you know you will get attacked by BOTH sides. He was right.

    I am writing this because I have had a great many comments, messages and emails from Muslims telling me "You are not a Muslim" and ironically from some ex-Muslims and liberals telling me"You are not a Muslim".

    Well I AM a Muslim. This is what I believe. Deal with it Smiley

    Peace & love to you all xx
  • Yes I AM a Muslim!!
     Reply #1 - June 10, 2015, 11:29 AM

    Great post Hassan, I'm dealing with it. Wink
  • Yes I AM a Muslim!!
     Reply #2 - June 10, 2015, 11:35 AM

    Hehe... grin12
  • Yes I AM a Muslim!!
     Reply #3 - June 10, 2015, 11:53 AM

    وذا النون إذ ذهب مغاضبا فظن أن لن نقدر عليه فنادى في الظلمات أن لا إله إلا أنت سبحانك إني كنت من الظالمين   فاستجبنا له ونجيناه من الغم وكذلك ننجي المؤمنين
     grin12
  • Yes I AM a Muslim!!
     Reply #4 - June 10, 2015, 12:32 PM

    I also believe Muhammad was inspired by God to utter the words of the Qur'an. But I believe this inspiration came through the mind and person of Muhammad and that it was he who interpreted this inspiration according to his time, culture and personality. He composed the words and phrased the sentences.

    Is this a rhetorical device, or are you not buying the stuff on the origins of the Koran that Zaotar et al are posting on Ye Learned Threades?
  • Yes I AM a Muslim!!
     Reply #5 - June 10, 2015, 01:21 PM

    Hassan I accept you and 'deal with it' wholeheartedly. Love the post. Inspiring stuff Afro

    Tired of the bull-shit. I write my own doctrines.
  • Yes I AM a Muslim!!
     Reply #6 - June 10, 2015, 01:50 PM

    Important thing is feeling free to choose your own identity Afro   

  • Yes I AM a Muslim!!
     Reply #7 - June 10, 2015, 01:53 PM

    Is this a rhetorical device, or are you not buying the stuff on the origins of the Koran that Zaotar et al are posting on Ye Learned Threades?


    Hassan, i respect every thing you said, why adding the second shahada, isn't " la ilah ila lah" not enough  Cry why this Shirk !!
  • Yes I AM a Muslim!!
     Reply #8 - June 10, 2015, 02:04 PM

    Nice post, Hassan. Don't let anyone bother you. Smiley
  • Yes I AM a Muslim!!
     Reply #9 - June 10, 2015, 02:22 PM

    Can you really take the blue pill after tasting the red one?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zE7PKRjrid4
  • Yes I AM a Muslim!!
     Reply #10 - June 10, 2015, 02:37 PM

    Hassan, I might not agree with you (to be honest I don't know what to believe, or if I even believe anything), but you offer a unique perspective and I always appreciate your insight. Keep doing your thing. Voices like yours need to be heard.
  • Yes I AM a Muslim!!
     Reply #11 - June 10, 2015, 03:06 PM

    Good for you Hassan. And a wonderful Muslim you are!  far away hug

    how fuck works without shit??


    Let's Play Chess!

    harakaat, friend, RIP
  • Yes I AM a Muslim!!
     Reply #12 - June 10, 2015, 05:21 PM

    وذا النون إذ ذهب مغاضبا فظن أن لن نقدر عليه فنادى في الظلمات أن لا إله إلا أنت سبحانك إني كنت من الظالمين   فاستجبنا له ونجيناه من الغم وكذلك ننجي المؤمنين
     grin12


    lol
  • Yes I AM a Muslim!!
     Reply #13 - June 10, 2015, 05:24 PM

    Is this a rhetorical device, or are you not buying the stuff on the origins of the Koran that Zaotar et al are posting on Ye Learned Threades?


    I agree with Zaotar. I strongly suspect the Qur'an is the work of several authors over a long period of time.

    However I am not going to go into an academic explanation each time I talk about matters of faith. For "Muhammad" - read "the Human authors." Smiley
  • Yes I AM a Muslim!!
     Reply #14 - June 10, 2015, 05:29 PM

    Hassan, i respect every thing you said, why adding the second shahada, isn't " la ilah ila lah" not enough  Cry why this Shirk !!


    I don't have a problem believing that there was a real Muhammad and that he was inspired (and if there were other authors who added and edited his words as I suspect was the case, that they were inspired too). But inspired in a very human way. In the way humans down the ages have been inspired by whatever powers there be. I am at the end of the day Agnostic in all metaphysical matters.
  • Yes I AM a Muslim!!
     Reply #15 - June 10, 2015, 05:31 PM

    Can you really take the blue pill after tasting the red one?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zE7PKRjrid4


    Meh... the red one is not all it's cracked up to be lol  grin12
  • Yes I AM a Muslim!!
     Reply #16 - June 10, 2015, 05:32 PM

    Thank you to the others I didn't mention -  far away hug
  • Yes I AM a Muslim!!
     Reply #17 - June 10, 2015, 06:37 PM

    lol

    It was my initial reaction. Fitting, if (only partially) tongue in cheek. Wink  far away hug
  • Yes I AM a Muslim!!
     Reply #18 - June 10, 2015, 06:42 PM

     far away hug
  • Yes I AM a Muslim!!
     Reply #19 - June 10, 2015, 07:12 PM

    Meh... the red one is not all it's cracked up to be lol  grin12


    Cheesy

    I think you are very brave. And your voice is so much needed among the contemporary ummah. They can accept or reject your voice - but they can't ignore it. Its relevance is obvious.

    Danish Never-Moose adopted by the kind people on the CEMB-forum
    Ex-Muslim chat (Unaffliated with CEMB). Safari users: Use "#ex-muslims" as the channel name. CEMB chat thread.
  • Yes I AM a Muslim!!
     Reply #20 - June 10, 2015, 07:18 PM

    Quote
    Hell is an absurd & wicked fiction. You're not a bad person for rejecting something that's cruel, irrational, unjust & lacks evidence. You have nothing to fear. Nothing to feel ashamed about. Enjoy your life. Do the best you can. Make yourself & others happy.


    If you say that about hell, is that also not true of its converse and its leader?

    When you are a Bear of Very Little Brain, and you Think of Things, you find sometimes that a Thing which seemed very Thingish inside you is quite different when it gets out into the open and has other people looking at it.


    A.A. Milne,

    "We cannot slaughter each other out of the human impasse"
  • Yes I AM a Muslim!!
     Reply #21 - June 10, 2015, 07:22 PM

    You know, just the thought of there being muslims with actual doubts, or someone saying that Muhammad and quran are not infallible, was unthinkable only a few years back. So glad that we have come a long way since then.

    Muslims need to understand that the only way they can get their own societies and themselves out of the mess they are in, is by adopting a mellowed approach to their religion. Use it for spiritual enlightenment, but don't mix it with sociopolitical issues, that's like asking for trouble.

    Hassan, you are a good man. That's all what matters. What you decide to label yourself, is completely up to you. And change will have to come from within, which is why voices like yours and Maajid Nawaz' are so important.
  • Yes I AM a Muslim!!
     Reply #22 - June 10, 2015, 07:35 PM

    If you say that about hell, is that also not true of its converse and its leader?


    I will be doing a Khutbah about Hell in which I will explain my view - but basically I definitely do think its a fiction. Muhammad amalgamated various ideas that were around at the time.

    Remember I consider the Qur'an to be man-made, so it contains the thoughts of men of their time and limitations.

    Does that mean it cannot have been inspired in some way - I think not. But then I think Pink Floyd were inspired when they recorded "Shine on you Crazy Diamond." - I have a very different view of inspiration to the regular religious one.
  • Yes I AM a Muslim!!
     Reply #23 - June 10, 2015, 07:40 PM

    The song you allude to was chosen by my uncle for his funeral :-)

    Maybe we need a new term? Existentialist Muslim, new Muslim, true Muslim, surreal Muslim , ?

    When you are a Bear of Very Little Brain, and you Think of Things, you find sometimes that a Thing which seemed very Thingish inside you is quite different when it gets out into the open and has other people looking at it.


    A.A. Milne,

    "We cannot slaughter each other out of the human impasse"
  • Yes I AM a Muslim!!
     Reply #24 - June 10, 2015, 07:50 PM

    I will be doing a Khutbah about Hell in which I will explain my view - but basically I definitely do think its a fiction. Muhammad amalgamated various ideas that were around at the time.

    Remember I consider the Qur'an to be man-made, so it contains the thoughts of men of their time and limitations.

    Does that mean it cannot have been inspired in some way - I think not. But then I think Pink Floyd were inspired when they recorded "Shine on you Crazy Diamond." - I have a very different view of inspiration to the regular religious one.


    Noel Gallagher of Oasis described it this way when discussing the song Champagne Supernova.

    Quote
    Some of the lyrics were written when I was out of it. There's the words: 'Someday you will find me/ Caught beneath a landslide/ In a Champagne Supernova in the sky'. That's probably as psychedelic as I'll ever get. It means different things when I'm in different moods. When I'm in a bad mood being caught beneath a landslide is like being suffocated. The song is a bit of an epic. It's about when you're young and you see people in groups and you think about what they did for you and they did nothing. As a kid, you always believed the Sex Pistols were going to conquer the world and kill everybody in the process. Bands like The Clash just petered out. Punk rock was supposed to be the revolution but what did it do? all. The Manchester thing was going to be the greatest movement on earth but it was fuck all. When we started we decided we weren't going to do anything for anybody, we just thought we'd leave a bunch of great songs. But some of the words are about nothing. One is about Bracket The Butler who used to be on Camberwick Green, or Chipley or Trumpton or something. He used to take about 20 minutes to go down the hall. And then I couldn't think of anything that rhymed with 'hall' apart from 'cannonball'. so I wrote 'Slowly walking down the hall/ Faster than a cannonball' and people were like, 'Wow, man'. There's also the line 'Where were you while we were getting high?' because that's what we always say to each other. But the number of people who've started clubs called Champagne Supernova is fucking unbelievable. And the album isn't even released yet.

    In a 2009 interview, Noel told the following anecdote:

    This writer, he was going on about the lyrics to "Champagne Supernova", and he actually said to me: ‘You know, the one thing that’s stopping it being a classic is the ridiculous lyrics.’ And I went: ‘What do you mean by that?’ And he said: ‘Well, Slowly walking down the hall, faster than a cannonball — what’s that mean?’ And I went: ‘I don’t know. But are you telling me, when you’ve got 60,000 people singing it, they don’t know what it means? It means something different to every one of them.’[2]


    Of course, Muhammad had that 60,000 beat by billions.  Smiley
  • Yes I AM a Muslim!!
     Reply #25 - June 10, 2015, 07:59 PM

     far away hug always Hassan.

    "Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused."
  • Yes I AM a Muslim!!
     Reply #26 - June 10, 2015, 08:00 PM

    So everyone is a true Muslim worshiping allat in their own way, with no last messengers or imams telling them the Way?

    When you are a Bear of Very Little Brain, and you Think of Things, you find sometimes that a Thing which seemed very Thingish inside you is quite different when it gets out into the open and has other people looking at it.


    A.A. Milne,

    "We cannot slaughter each other out of the human impasse"
  • Yes I AM a Muslim!!
     Reply #27 - June 10, 2015, 08:03 PM

    So everyone is a true Muslim worshiping allat in their own way, with no last messengers or imams telling them the Way?

    Obviously.

    And the last judgement is left to Allah. And Allah knows best parrot And Allah is the most merciful.

    Danish Never-Moose adopted by the kind people on the CEMB-forum
    Ex-Muslim chat (Unaffliated with CEMB). Safari users: Use "#ex-muslims" as the channel name. CEMB chat thread.
  • Yes I AM a Muslim!!
     Reply #28 - June 10, 2015, 08:06 PM



    http://youtu.be/K2xpbKBuTEw

    Beatles magical mystery tour

    When you are a Bear of Very Little Brain, and you Think of Things, you find sometimes that a Thing which seemed very Thingish inside you is quite different when it gets out into the open and has other people looking at it.


    A.A. Milne,

    "We cannot slaughter each other out of the human impasse"
  • Yes I AM a Muslim!!
     Reply #29 - June 10, 2015, 08:54 PM

    Noel Gallagher of Oasis described it this way when discussing the song Champagne Supernova.

    Of course, Muhammad had that 60,000 beat by billions.  Smiley


    Awesome quote from Noel Gallagher.

    Yes and inspiration can turn out shit too - I remember hearing Lou Reed's Metal Machine Music - and thinking WTF?? A double album of absolute shite. He said he was inspired to do this very different album, but no-one else was on the same wavelength as it was universally panned lol
  • 12 3 ... 6 Next page « Previous thread | Next thread »