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Theme Changer

 Topic: Split from Ex Quranist

 (Read 15774 times)
  • Previous page 1 2 34 5 Next page « Previous thread | Next thread »
  • Split from Ex Quranist
     Reply #60 - May 23, 2015, 08:38 PM
    And yes I do remember you over there Yeezy lol
  • Split from Ex Quranist
     Reply #61 - May 23, 2015, 08:47 PM
    Quote from: happymurtad on May 23, 2015, 08:34 PM
    I suggested that before?

    Quote from: happymurtad on October 14, 2013, 01:23 PM
    We seriously need to make an automated response system for guys like Ahmed... "Thank you for contacting CEMB. We've detected that you've been influenced by regurgitated Islamic arguments. Please listen to our menu carefully, as these ridiculous points have all been refuted before. If you believe that hell and infinite mercy are compatible, press one. If you think an omniscient and all powerful god can us give free will, press two. If you doubt evolution by natural selection, press three. To argue why incest is bad but fucking a nine year old isn't, press four."

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Split from Ex Quranist
     Reply #62 - May 23, 2015, 08:49 PM
     Cheesy Wow. Former me thinks like current me. Great minds...
  • Split from Ex Quranist
     Reply #63 - May 23, 2015, 08:50 PM
    Quote from: Quod Sum Eris on October 16, 2013, 12:37 AM
    I wanna lick your brain. God your skin looks like chocolate...

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Split from Ex Quranist
     Reply #64 - May 23, 2015, 11:29 PM
    Eww
  • Split from Ex Quranist
     Reply #65 - May 23, 2015, 11:37 PM
    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Split from Ex Quranist
     Reply #66 - May 24, 2015, 01:32 AM
    "We seriously need to make an automated response system for guys like Ahmed... "Thank you for contacting CEMB. We've detected that you've been influenced by regurgitated Islamic arguments. Please listen to our menu carefully, as these ridiculous points have all been refuted before. If you believe that hell and infinite mercy are compatible, press one. If you think an omniscient and all powerful god can us give free will, press two. If you doubt evolution by natural selection, press three. To argue why incest is bad but fucking a nine year old isn't, press four."

    Yes please! I've been going through the previous threads and found this one particularly helpful:

    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=27715.0

    It would be great if there were some sort of database that includes all the materials and resources mentioned in the threads. Since I need to snap back to having a life, I can't read everything listed but I am definitely planning on reading one book recommended by Zaotar:

    http://www.amazon.com/Emergence-Islam-Traditions-Contemporary-Perspective/dp/0800698592/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1431708894&sr=8-1&keywords=emergence+of+islam

    I wish this stuff was available in Arabic! I spent a couple of years living in the Middle East and I know that there are so many young men and women who have serious doubts but don't have access to the literature.
  • Split from Ex Quranist
     Reply #67 - May 24, 2015, 04:30 AM
    "about why nine year old in desert climates are mature enough to marry 50 year old ", that part that i don't even understand from orthodox Muslims, why they even defend the undefendable,

     They prefer to provide a barbaric picture of their prophet than to cast doubt on the authenticity of Sira and Hadith,  i think they have fuck up their priorities :(
  • Split from Ex Quranist
     Reply #68 - May 24, 2015, 07:53 AM
    Quote from: Hassan on May 23, 2015, 08:30 PM
    Maybe we need some guidlinesguidelines and make it a sticky?


    Not a bad idea at all.

    Muslims should definitely have some sort of idea what they're getting into when they stumble upon this place, if for no other reason than promoting more productive dialogue.
    Quote from: yeezevee on February 11, 2016, 02:05 PM
    how fuck works without shit??


    Let's Play Chess!

    harakaat, friend, RIP
  • Split from Ex Quranist
     Reply #69 - May 24, 2015, 08:36 AM
    Quote from: curiousarabgirl on May 24, 2015, 01:32 AM
    It would be great if there were some sort of database that includes all the materials and resources mentioned in the threads. Since I need to snap back to having a life, I can't read everything listed but I am definitely planning on reading one book recommended by Zaotar:

    http://www.amazon.com/Emergence-Islam-Traditions-Contemporary-Perspective/dp/0800698592/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1431708894&sr=8-1&keywords=emergence+of+islam

    I wish this stuff was available in Arabic! I spent a couple of years living in the Middle East and I know that there are so many young men and women who have serious doubts but don't have access to the literature.

    If anyone can track down links for any Arabic articles on current scholarship then it might be useful to have a separate sticky for this. Even if there's not very much in Arabic it's hard to believe that there's nothing at all.

    Edit: for example I guess this article by Emran El-Badawi must be about the current scholarship but then I don't actually know any Arabic so I've no idea what it's saying.

    http://www.academia.edu/10132859/البحث_عن_سياق_القرآن_التاريخي_نبذة_عن_الدراسات_القرآنية_الحديثة_Al-Machreq_Online_5.1_2014_
    Which side are you on?
  • Split from Ex Quranist
     Reply #70 - May 24, 2015, 09:02 AM
    Quote from: asbie on May 24, 2015, 07:53 AM
    Not a bad idea at all.

    Muslims should definitely have some sort of idea what they're getting into when they stumble upon this place, if for no other reason than promoting more productive dialogue.


    Perhaps a warning on what to expect lol but guidelines are for trolls and troublemakers, not for muslims, it will put them off posting.  Besides a lot of them may be coming here with doubts about their faith, doubts they aren't even aware of and may be looking for alternative views.
  • Split from Ex Quranist
     Reply #71 - May 24, 2015, 09:06 AM
    That article looks interesting Zeca. The title is: The search for the historical quranic context. An overview of modern Quranic studies.

    It is by doctor Badawi who wrote the book about sects sceptics and disbelief in Islam which is quoted at times  by the author of the book I translated "My Ordeal with the Quran… " particularly in the chapter on heretics and apostates in Islam.

    He looks like someone worth reading.

    I'm on my mobile for another week but will definitely (inshallah lol) read it when I get back home in a few days.

    Thanks
  • Split from Ex Quranist
     Reply #72 - May 24, 2015, 09:18 AM
    Actually its a different Doctor Badawi. But it still looks very interesting.

    Btw curiousarabgirl the book I mentioned above is available in pdf free online. It is called: a history of disbelief/atheism in Islam.

    http://www.ladeenyon.net/page.php?id=244
  • Split from Ex Quranist
     Reply #73 - May 24, 2015, 01:11 PM
    Quote from: zeca on May 24, 2015, 08:36 AM
    If anyone can track down links for any Arabic articles on current scholarship then it might be useful to have a separate sticky for this. Even if there's not very much in Arabic it's hard to believe that there's nothing at all.

    Edit: for example I guess this article by Emran Al-Badawi must be about the current scholarship but then I don't actually know any Arabic so I've no idea what it's saying.

    http://www.academia.edu/10132859/البحث_عن_سياق_القرآن_التاريخي_نبذة_عن_الدراسات_القرآنية_الحديثة_Al-Machreq_Online_5.1_2014_


    it is an excellent paper Zeca,  specially because it is written in a "sacred Language", it has a perverse effect on the reader,  although the author is very cautious about using the correct words,
    Actually i feel sorry for him, how to do a serious analysis of Quran without  implying a human product !!!
  • Split from Ex Quranist
     Reply #74 - May 24, 2015, 01:18 PM
    Quote from: yeezevee on May 23, 2015, 07:22 PM
    where bogart  where did you counter?  you mean this one and this one??  ... Well bogart.,  I am not sure you tried to explain Zahrul's doubts  in way that he will learn/teach/ interact and respond to your posts.  It appears that you are just chiding/heckling him..


    It did not appear to me he was interested in learning. I did not see any doubts, I saw strawman arguments he setup just so he could knock them down. Most of his points were presuppositions such as no biological immortality, coming from nothing and what "atheists" think. He didn't even ask us what we thought, he assumed what we thought which was probably based another presupposition rather than any dialogue.
  • Split from Ex Quranist
     Reply #75 - May 24, 2015, 03:05 PM
    You guys were really missing me !!
    Well, in that response I can say if hitler has the ability to punish me , I too have the ability to punish him . That means I can equally be merciful to hitler , then resultant mercy turns out to be zero. And hitler no longer remains merciful.
    This cannot be applied in the case of GOD , say GOD can be merciful to me but I cannot be merciful to GOD even in the least as I donot possess any ability to punish GOD. And GOD remains most merciful .
    It seems happymurtad have taken the peel and left the main banana. Yes indeed the punishment is delayed but if the sinner repents during this delay, he/she will find GOD most merciful and will experience comforts of Paradise instead of stuff you wrote down there.
    @ Hassan : I donot find your proverb of stepping stone fitting into my case. Turning into a quranist took my faith upto maximum degree from where I can hardly slide back.
    @ Yeezevee : your answer is on the website www.quran-islam.org . Choose Quran > New information > End of the world . Thanks for supporting me, please donot request anyone to go soft .I will remain unchanged even if every person on earth goes against me. Where they will have fun if not here on earth, I too have fun here.
    Well, Quod Sum Eris looks more funny ! I invite you mr. intelligent to destroy my faith. Do not take much time for that because some work is approaching towards me and I can be unavailable here for some months.
    Needless comments from Jedi and Bogart, totally illogical .
  • Split from Ex Quranist
     Reply #76 - May 24, 2015, 03:15 PM
    Quote from: Zahirul on May 24, 2015, 03:05 PM

    This cannot be applied in the case of GOD

    Turning into a quranist took my faith upto maximum degree from where I can hardly slide back.

    I will remain unchanged even if every person on earth goes against me. Where they will have fun if not here on earth

    Needless comments from Jedi and Bogart, totally illogical .



    So I was right then about my impression?

    Quote from: Quod Sum Eris on May 23, 2015, 08:05 PM
    Did anyone seriously think he was actually here to engage with ex-muslims in a calm, rational, civilized manner and actually consider the points raised?

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Split from Ex Quranist
     Reply #77 - May 24, 2015, 03:21 PM
    You invited him, Quod. Let's see it.  grin12
  • Split from Ex Quranist
     Reply #78 - May 24, 2015, 03:22 PM
    If he wants to start a thread in the one on one, I shall respond.
    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Split from Ex Quranist
     Reply #79 - May 24, 2015, 05:15 PM
    Quote from: Zahirul on May 24, 2015, 03:05 PM
    if hitler has the ability to punish me , I too have the ability to punish him . That means I can equally be merciful to hitler , then resultant mercy turns out to be zero. And hitler no longer remains merciful.
    This cannot be applied in the case of GOD , say GOD can be merciful to me but I cannot be merciful to GOD even in the least as I donot possess any ability to punish GOD. And GOD remains most merciful .


    Sorry but that's just vacuous sophisty.

    A person's mercy - or lack thereof - isn't dependent on his victims ability or lack of ability to punish him back.

    Quite simply God cannot be all merciful if he tortures his flawed creation for eternity. Particularly for not believing in something God himself intentionally made open to reasonable doubt.
  • Split from Ex Quranist
     Reply #80 - May 24, 2015, 05:21 PM
    Quote from: Quod Sum Eris on May 24, 2015, 03:15 PM
    So I was right then about my impression?



    You don't seem to get it Quod. You are never going to get a believing Muslim who does not say sililarsimilar things to what you quote.

    That doesn't mean one can't engage in a debate.
  • Split from Ex Quranist
     Reply #81 - May 24, 2015, 05:38 PM
    I've met a few muslims who are very thoughtful people who can indeed engage in a calm, rational, civilized manner and actually consider the points raised. But that's actually not the point I was making. What I'm saying is that he doesn't seem to want to do any of those things. Already has his truth. Whether or not that's the majority of muslims has no impact on my observation of this individual.
    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Split from Ex Quranist
     Reply #82 - May 24, 2015, 06:02 PM
    Quote from: Quod Sum Eris on May 24, 2015, 05:38 PM
    Already has his truth

     

    Of course he already has the truth.

    Quote from: Quod Sum Eris on May 24, 2015, 05:38 PM
    Whether or not that's the majority of muslims has no impact on my observation of this individual.


    You're observation is right, Quod.
  • Split from Ex Quranist
     Reply #83 - May 24, 2015, 06:48 PM
    You call this pointless?

    Quote
    Modern day translation: You better believe in me because I'm nice, kind and forgive people but if you don't beleive in me I'll burn you in hell for all eternity over and over again.


    You are punished simply for NOT BELIEVING! And if you do believe you are punished for NOT WORSHIPPING! This God is not emrciful but a cry-baby who wants your attention.

    No free mixing of the sexes is permitted on these forums or via PM or the various chat groups that are operating.

    Women must write modestly and all men must lower their case.

    http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?425649-Have-some-Hayaa-%28modesty-shame%29-people!
  • Split from Ex Quranist
     Reply #84 - May 24, 2015, 07:16 PM
    Honestly zahir I am sorry for the responses here. I also think Islam is not the true religion, but I wouldn't disrespect you or mock your beliefs. Being that I used to be a pious Catholic, I can understand the attraction and the sense you find in your faith. For my part, please know that all atheists/agnostics are not super dogmatic and dismissive of people's faith. If you would like to have a debate on the historical claims of the Islamic religion (Muhammad as prophet, Abraham building the Ka'abah, the nature of the early Arabic Caliphate, etc.) that is a debate I would love to have with you in the one-on-one forum. All the best Wink
    إطلب العلم ولو في الصين

    Es sitzt keine Krone so fest und so hoch,
    Der mutige Springer erreicht sie doch.

    I don't give a fuck about your war, or your President.
  • Split from Ex Quranist
     Reply #85 - May 24, 2015, 07:41 PM
    My reply was in response to attitude, not him being a believer.
    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Split from Ex Quranist
     Reply #86 - May 24, 2015, 07:56 PM
    Not just you Quod, I think a lot of people here can be kind of harsh with Muslims when they come. Just trying to sympathize friend, I also understand how and why these types of arguments would get under the skin of atheist/agnostic folk, and why they would react this wat, so not trying to condemn so much as to sympathize.  far away hug
    إطلب العلم ولو في الصين

    Es sitzt keine Krone so fest und so hoch,
    Der mutige Springer erreicht sie doch.

    I don't give a fuck about your war, or your President.
  • Split from Ex Quranist
     Reply #87 - May 24, 2015, 08:10 PM
    ^ I have actually seen really nice receptions and pretty civil debates with Muslims on here, but in my observation, the overall reception depends on how they enter. I think more posters are more likely to sit down and try to engage in dialogue with someone if they seem even remotely receptive to it, and not just here to preach or do drive-by dawah. If they seem like they're actually reading and absorbing what people take the time to write to them, and not just blasting us with paragraphs about how they're right and blessed and we're wrong and hell-bound. I would expect to have a similarly sour reception if I went to a religious forum and, without introduction, started just posting about how wrong and illogical everything they believe in is.

    I have asked Zahriul more than once to make an intro thread in order to be taken more seriously, and still wish he would if he actually intends to stick around and try to have a discussion.
  • Split from Ex Quranist
     Reply #88 - May 24, 2015, 10:26 PM
    Opps double post
  • Split from Ex Quranist
     Reply #89 - May 24, 2015, 10:32 PM
    Quote from: Zahirul on May 24, 2015, 03:05 PM
    You guys were really missing me !!
    Well, in that response I can say if hitler has the ability to punish me , I too have the ability to punish him . That means I can equally be merciful to hitler , then resultant mercy turns out to be zero. And hitler no longer remains merciful.
    This cannot be applied in the case of GOD , say GOD can be merciful to me but I cannot be merciful to GOD even in the least as I donot possess any ability to punish GOD. And GOD remains most merciful .
    It seems happymurtad have taken the peel and left the main banana. Yes indeed the punishment is delayed but if the sinner repents during this delay, he/she will find GOD most merciful and will experience comforts of Paradise instead of stuff you wrote down there.
    @ Hassan : I donot find your proverb of stepping stone fitting into my case. Turning into a quranist took my faith upto maximum degree from where I can hardly slide back.
    @ Yeezevee : your answer is on the website www.quran-islam.org . Choose Quran > New information > End of the world . Thanks for supporting me, please donot request anyone to go soft .I will remain unchanged even if every person on earth goes against me. Where they will have fun if not here on earth, I too have fun here.
    Well, Quod Sum Eris looks more funny ! I invite you mr. intelligent to destroy my faith. Do not take much time for that because some work is approaching towards me and I can be unavailable here for some months.
    Needless comments from Jedi and Bogart, totally illogical .



    Our comments were not needless, we just showed your incoherent thought patterns either do to a communication issue as English may not be your first language or an educational issue if it is your first language. You use the word illogical but do not know what it really means otherwise your comments would not be filled with logic fallacies.

    Quote
    Well, in that response I can say if hitler has the ability to punish me , I too have the ability to punish him . That means I can equally be merciful to hitler , then resultant mercy turns out to be zero. And hitler no longer remains merciful.


    Incoherent. If there is zero mercy then one can not be merciful. Hitler's mercy is not dependent on your mercy nor vice-versa.

    Quote
    This cannot be applied in the case of GOD , say GOD can be merciful to me but I cannot be merciful to GOD even in the least as I donot possess any ability to punish GOD. And GOD remains most merciful .


    Special pleading. You have no ability to punish Hitler and never had. Thus your objection can apply to Hitler as it does for god. Also not being able to punish god does not mean one can not be merciful by using a hypothetical scenario in which we do have the ability. Both these points create a non-sequitur argument and an incoherent one thus makes no point. Lastly our inability to punish god does not make god most merciful by default, this is an argument from ignorance.
     


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