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 Topic: Newly ex Muslim and freaking out

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  • Newly ex Muslim and freaking out
     OP - May 19, 2015, 07:55 PM
    Hi everyone,

    I'm an Arab American former (as of like two weeks!!) Sunni Muslim. I've been headed in this direction all my life and have gradually been accumulating doubts since I was a teen (I'm in my late twenties). I can read the Quran in its original Arabic and even though I never found it particularly interesting or insightful, it was definitely soothing at times of stress. Fear held me back from delving into Islam critically and I always thought that I would eventually find a way to become a practicing Muslim. I thought Sufism could be my loophole.

    But I somehow stumbled onto a super unflattering story of one of the most prominent Sahabah. It all went downhill from there as I started researching and realized that there is a whole world of critical Islamic scholarship out there that casts doubt on Sahih Bukhari, the Sirah, and the Quran itself. I was shocked to say the least, which is kind of embarrassing because I feel I should have known about this before. Modern Islamic scholarship is not receiving the attention it deserves, probably because of fear of our crazy peoples. I'm currently going through the Findings of Critical Scholarship thread and it's AWESOME. Thank you guys SO MUCH. It's exactly what I was looking for! It's absolutely terrifying/exhilarating/fascinating to read the posts and I look forward to learning as much as I can.

    I know that for anyone reading this, I might come off as excited about my new perspective and new identity (Gosh that's hard to even type out) but I am very afraid and feel alone and lost. I cannot confide in absolutely anyone as I belong to a super conservative Arab community. I badly want to share with my friends what I discovered but I can't because my family would eventually find out. I am not religious and that's socially acceptable but the biggest practical problem I am facing now is the prospect of marrying a Muslim. I am currently in a relationship with someone who also an Arab Muslim and he has no idea about what I'm going through. My question to all of you is: Do you think it's an absolutely stupid idea to marry someone who is Muslim now that you are no longer one? My gut tells me this is a disaster waiting to happen.

    My other question involves fate. Now that many of you are former Muslims, how do you handle moving forward in life without that anchor of fate, without knowing that everything that has happened or will happen to you is because of some grand plan? That belief sustained me throughout my life and as I'm rapidly losing it, I feel like I'm in unchartered waters- hence the freaking out.
  • Newly ex Muslim and freaking out
     Reply #1 - May 19, 2015, 08:25 PM
    American?! Girl, you've got to stay. Hello from New England.  dance

    For your first question, I'd definitely say no to marrying a Muslim, unless he's an exceptional one who is definitely liberal and you're both on the same page (and obviously love each other). I remember there was a thread where we discussed this quite a bit, I'll try to find it in a minute. It's probably less hard to convince a loving partner of any background to pretend to be a convert when you two have to hang out at family functions and do a nikah in addition to a civil marriage and all that if marrying a non-Muslim is out of the question for your family.

    As for your new outlook and how to come to terms with it, it does take time. It's normal to get a little depressed or anxious and go through an existential crisis of sorts, but everyone will come out of it, and everyone will come out of it differently. There is no one-size-fits-all answer to what makes the universe beautiful or life meaningful and worthwhile. It's something you'll find for yourself along the way, and you'll slowly come to accept this new way of living, and maybe even like it more (I do, anyway). Just be patient about the process, and take your time to figure everything out and find what works for you.

    Anyway, welcome!  parrot
  • Newly ex Muslim and freaking out
     Reply #2 - May 19, 2015, 08:26 PM
    Here's the old thread: http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=26756.0
  • Newly ex Muslim and freaking out
     Reply #3 - May 19, 2015, 08:40 PM
    Hi and welcome Smiley

    There's many of us around, most who don't speak about it because they think they are anomalies.

    Just don't think you are alone, which is what many people think they are when they were at the stage you are.
  • Newly ex Muslim and freaking out
     Reply #4 - May 19, 2015, 08:48 PM
    Hi guys! Thank you for your replies!

    Lua, I am reading the thread you linked and it's pretty depressing. He is not very liberal and thinks that gays should pretend to be straight. Furthermore, if he found out that I am an ex-Muslim he would end things immediately. Which now that I think about it doesn't sound like a bad idea.

  • Newly ex Muslim and freaking out
     Reply #5 - May 19, 2015, 08:54 PM
    Oh, yikes. That's definitely not great. You don't want that hanging over your head.

    If you're up for more reading (I think in this thread most of the blabbing was done by me, but on the plus side, I don't think there's anything else I could possibly say about the dangers of going forward with these relationships), here's a thread about a woman who was in a relationship with a not-so-liberal Muslim and trying to decide if it was worth pursuing: http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=27721.0

    At any rate, you've come to the right place. These guys give some nice advice, and many of us will know what you're going through. far away hug

  • Newly ex Muslim and freaking out
     Reply #6 - May 19, 2015, 09:07 PM
    Please tell me who the Arabic scholar your husband found is! The one who discredits hadith, is it Sayyed al-Qimni? That dude is awesome, I think he's a closet atheist.

    I don't think I will actually go through with marrying that guy because I can't imagine spending the rest of my life pretending to my own husband that I am Muslim- it's bad enough that I have to pretend to everyone else. I need someone to pretend with me!

    I'm trying to convince myself to end it but the fact that I live in an area with a paucity of interesting Arab guys is holding me back (my community is pretty segregated so I don't know many Desis). I will get there though! Thank you for the link!
  • Newly ex Muslim and freaking out
     Reply #7 - May 19, 2015, 09:52 PM
    The husband watched a bunch, but he wasn't the biggest one for him. Come to think of it, I've probably straight up called him a Quranist on here before, but I think the more appropriate thing to say would be that he's more of a reformer, but Adnan Ibrahim was huge for my husband to stop taking the hadith so seriously. I haven't seen a ton of his videos, but I liked most of the ones I did see at the time.

    Yeah, I don't blame you. I was never the strongest believer in a classical sense and by the time I was getting married I pretty much had one foot out the door already, but I thought I could do it. I thought I could just hold my tongue and go through the motions and it wouldn't be that bad. It was way worse than I thought and I was over it and wanting a divorce in like three months. Grin

    Quote
    it's bad enough that I have to pretend to everyone else. I need someone to pretend with me!


    Exactly! You deserve a real partner in crime.  yes
  • Newly ex Muslim and freaking out
     Reply #8 - May 19, 2015, 10:09 PM
    Welcome to the forum!

     اهلا وسهلا بك يا بنت عربية فضولية Smiley

    It's great that you're interested in the more scholarly side of critical studies of the Islamic tradition! Please feel free to jump in and ask questions. I would also be happy to suggest you some books and articles Smiley


    Also I have been in a relationship with a pious Muslim as well, even when they say they are liberal the Islamic strictures on out-marriage and apostasy are really deeply ingrained into people's minds who come from Islamic cultures, so beware. If he will not accept your beliefs, I think I am not alone here in saying that he might not make a good life partner. Just take your time and don't rush into anything.

    Once again, welcome  parrot
    إطلب العلم ولو في الصين

    Es sitzt keine Krone so fest und so hoch,
    Der mutige Springer erreicht sie doch.

    I don't give a fuck about your war, or your President.
  • Newly ex Muslim and freaking out
     Reply #9 - May 19, 2015, 10:19 PM
    Thanks Lua and countjulian!

    Shukran kteer, I've been devouring the content on that thread and have been looking up the scholars y'all referenced. I would appreciate any suggestions!
  • Newly ex Muslim and freaking out
     Reply #10 - May 19, 2015, 10:24 PM
     لا شكر على واجب يا أختي Smiley

    I would suggest, to start off with, Fred Donner Muhammad and the Believers, and Tom Holland In the Shadow of the Sword: The Birth of Islam. Tom Holland also has a great documentary you should watch from Britain's Channel 4, online for free:

    Islam: The Untold Story
    https://vimeo.com/79051482

    There's also a lot of articles in the sticky thread on scholarly articles I posted. I need to update it badly lol. I should start a thread on introductions to this stuff, it would be good.
    إطلب العلم ولو في الصين

    Es sitzt keine Krone so fest und so hoch,
    Der mutige Springer erreicht sie doch.

    I don't give a fuck about your war, or your President.
  • Newly ex Muslim and freaking out
     Reply #11 - May 19, 2015, 10:27 PM
    Quote from: curiousarabgirl on May 19, 2015, 10:19 PM
    Thanks Lua and countjulian!

    Shukran kteer, I've been devouring the content on that thread and have been looking up the scholars y'all referenced. I would appreciate any suggestions!


    I found a y'all, and it made my day. Hello to the American girl! Welcome! parrot
    Don't let Hitler have the street.
  • Newly ex Muslim and freaking out
     Reply #12 - May 19, 2015, 10:36 PM
    Haha, thanks Smiley I'm so glad I found this site, I was going nuts trying to find some legitimate scholarship and people who share my experience. The only ex-Muslim I know is a total sleazeball and discussing Islamic scholarship with him is not the best idea.

    @countjulian I was kinda under the impression that Tom Holland and Patricia Crone are not super credible?
  • Newly ex Muslim and freaking out
     Reply #13 - May 19, 2015, 10:41 PM
    Not at all. Muslim apologists would like to you believe that though. Tom Holland's a claccist who came to Islam secondarily from his studies of Late Antique Byzantium and Persia, he has no ax to grind. His book is basically just a summary of scholarship in the field, he is certainly no anti-Muslim partisan. In that documentary he goes to Jordan and prays with badu in the dessert. Patricia Crone is one of the greatest living historians, period, and any attempts to besmirch her name are based on partisan and religious animus, not on her scholarly works, which are incredible. Even her much maligned Hagarism is still looked at as groundbreaking and remarkable, even if all of its conclusions are not widely accepted.
    إطلب العلم ولو في الصين

    Es sitzt keine Krone so fest und so hoch,
    Der mutige Springer erreicht sie doch.

    I don't give a fuck about your war, or your President.
  • Newly ex Muslim and freaking out
     Reply #14 - May 19, 2015, 10:50 PM
    Great, thanks for explaining that! I will definitely look into her work.
  • Newly ex Muslim and freaking out
     Reply #15 - May 19, 2015, 11:11 PM
    Quote from: curiousarabgirl on May 19, 2015, 08:48 PM
    Hi guys! Thank you for your replies!

    Furthermore, if he found out that I am an ex-Muslim he would end things immediately. Which now that I think about it doesn't sound like a bad idea.



    Yeah, you probably want to end that without marrying him--think about how much worse it will be if you end it after marrying him: worst case scenario, he might feel a personal sense of responsibility for "dealing with" your apostasy, best case scenario, he'll get a divorce, which if you're living together or have children then (I'm assuming neither of those things is true now, if you were actively pretty religious), means you may or may not be able to keep your house and/or children. Ending it now is much, much easier.
    Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil, for I have a sonic screwdriver, a tricorder, and a Type 2 phaser.
  • Newly ex Muslim and freaking out
     Reply #16 - May 19, 2015, 11:24 PM
    Alhamdullillah I'm not married to him! I don't think I can ever quit that word or Inshallah lol. Yeah, I don't think a marriage built on a lie is entirely a good idea.
  • Newly ex Muslim and freaking out
     Reply #17 - May 19, 2015, 11:52 PM
    Welcome aboard to CEMB, your one stop shop for Islamic scholarship, philosophy, music, porn star pics, and the enigma known as yeezevee.

    Enjoy our limited time offer welcome parrot  parrot

    Hope you stick around. Us Americans need to stick together.
    "I moreover believe that any religion that has anything in it that shocks the mind of a child, cannot be a true system."
    -Thomas Paine
  • Newly ex Muslim and freaking out
     Reply #18 - May 20, 2015, 12:01 AM
    Quote from: curiousarabgirl on May 19, 2015, 11:24 PM
    Alhamdullillah I'm not married to him! I don't think I can ever quit that word or Inshallah lol.


    That's now you feel now, but don't be surprised if your opinion swings around wildly for a little while, you'll eventually reach an equilibrium, probably somewhere that isn't exactly where you are right now and also not exactly whatever the furthest in the direction of anti-theism you'll go is. Smiley That's normal.

    Also don't worry about the fear of a life without fate, it is really scary at first, and you might get depressed and nihilistic but soon, you'll find something that you will make your purpose. No one else has a master plan for your life, but that doesn't mean you can't have one of your own! You can come up with a purpose for living, something that gives your life meaning and something you want to do with your life. And the great thing about writing your own master plan for your life is that you can change it.  dance You don't have to feel like your life is being driven by a force you can't see but hope is, in the end, benevolent, and just assume that you have to make the best of whatever situation you find yourself in; and if you find you don't like the situation you're in, you can change it.

    And I'm also an American (my username is gal from usa, not galfro musa, don't listen to yeezevee). I'm usually online in the afternoon and evening, usually until about midnight AZ time, which is pacific right now (this dumb state doesn't observe daylight savings time). Feel free to message me, and I will be happy to grace you with my massive insight (sarcasm: I actually know that most of the "great ideas" my bipolar gives me are either wrong or stupid).
    Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil, for I have a sonic screwdriver, a tricorder, and a Type 2 phaser.
  • Newly ex Muslim and freaking out
     Reply #19 - May 20, 2015, 12:42 AM
    Quote from: curiousarabgirl on May 19, 2015, 07:55 PM
    Do you think it's an absolutely stupid idea to marry someone who is Muslim now that you are no longer one? My gut tells me this is a disaster waiting to happen.

    My other question involves fate. Now that many of you are former Muslims, how do you handle moving forward in life without that anchor of fate, without knowing that everything that has happened or will happen to you is because of some grand plan? That belief sustained me throughout my life and as I'm rapidly losing it, I feel like I'm in unchartered waters- hence the freaking out.


    For your first question I would basically give the same advice I did on the thread lua linked you, but it seems you've already come to a conclusion.

    As for your second question, it brought a biblical quote to mind. "When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child. But when I became a man, I put away childish things."

    You should view this as part of the process of growing up. When we're children we easily believe all sorts of things. Childhood is a magical time when a man really does come down the chimney and leave presents under the tree, people in capes really do fly, monsters live in the closet, under the bed and hide in the dark, and our parents are superheroes. When we grow up we realise that these things are false and our parents are flawed, imperfect human beings, just like us.

    Coming to the realisation there is no grand plan is the same realisation as the above. It's a part of growing up. Our destinies are in our own hands and it's up to us to forge the lives we want. There's no fate but what we ourselves create, and it's down to us to make the world a better place. This is a responsibility no one will or can take for you. Welcome to adulthood.
    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Newly ex Muslim and freaking out
     Reply #20 - May 20, 2015, 05:17 AM
    Ahlan wa sahlan, you are amongst friends who share your experience. Believe me you are not alone.

    I am on my mobile phone so have to keep my reply brief :

    "Do you think it's an absolutely stupid idea to marry someone who is Muslim now that you are no longer one?"

    Short answer: Yes. Of course it may not be that simple if you are in love and there are ex muslims who are in such a relationship. But the sacrifices and problems you will face are huge and not to be taken lightly.

    "My other question involves fate. Now that many of you are former Muslims, how do you handle moving forward in life without that anchor of fate, without knowing that everything that has happened or will happen to you is because of some grand plan? That belief sustained me throughout my life and as I'm rapidly losing it, I feel like I'm in unchartered waters- hence the freaking out."

    I would love to go into more detail but typing on my phone is a pain so you might find my own story helpful:

     https://abooali.wordpress.com
  • Newly ex Muslim and freaking out
     Reply #21 - May 20, 2015, 05:57 AM
    Hi,

    And a very warm welcome to our forum  parrot

    You might want to get in contact with the Ex-Muslims in North America. They also have local chapters there:
    http://www.exmna.org/local-chapters/

    I think it can be helpful against the feeling of being alone, when you talk to somebody who has the same problems.

    @countjulian: thanks for the video, I'll try to watch it when I find time. Which book of Patricia Crone can you recommend?


  • Newly ex Muslim and freaking out
     Reply #22 - May 20, 2015, 07:53 AM
    Welcome and have some traditional critters:  parrot bunny
  • Newly ex Muslim and freaking out
     Reply #23 - May 20, 2015, 08:04 AM
    Welcome.

    Quote from: curiousarabgirl on May 19, 2015, 07:55 PM
    I cannot confide in absolutely anyone as I belong to a super conservative Arab community.

    Most people here can relate to this. This is why we have this community.

    Quote
    My other question involves fate. Now that many of you are former Muslims, how do you handle moving forward in life without that anchor of fate, without knowing that everything that has happened or will happen to you is because of some grand plan?

    I feel free. It's a struggle and I went through a lot of depression, but I came to realize that not being a pawn in some grand plan makes me free in the truest and deepest sense of the word.
  • Newly ex Muslim and freaking out
     Reply #24 - May 20, 2015, 09:37 AM
    Quote from: ElToro on May 20, 2015, 05:57 AM
    Hi,

    And a very warm welcome to our forum  parrot

    You might want to get in contact with the Ex-Muslims in North America. They also have local chapters there:
    http://www.exmna.org/local-chapters/

    I think it can be helpful against the feeling of being alone, when you talk to somebody who has the same problems.

    @countjulian: thanks for the video, I'll try to watch it when I find time. Which book of Patricia Crone can you recommend?






    Keine Problem mein Freund  Smiley Any of her books on Islam are great, probably her two faves of mine are Meccan Trade and the Rise of Islam and God's Caliph.
    إطلب العلم ولو في الصين

    Es sitzt keine Krone so fest und so hoch,
    Der mutige Springer erreicht sie doch.

    I don't give a fuck about your war, or your President.
  • Newly ex Muslim and freaking out
     Reply #25 - May 20, 2015, 10:48 AM
    Welcome to the forum curiousarabgirl, have a rabbit!  bunny
    Quote from: yeezevee on February 11, 2016, 09:05 AM
    how fuck works without shit??


    Let's Play Chess!

    harakaat, friend, RIP
  • Newly ex Muslim and freaking out
     Reply #26 - May 20, 2015, 11:10 AM
    Welcome to the forum Smiley
    He's no friend to the friendless
    And he's the mother of grief
    There's only sorrow for tomorrow
    Surely life is too brief
  • Newly ex Muslim and freaking out
     Reply #27 - May 20, 2015, 12:34 PM
    Wow, thanks everyone for the warm welcome and replies Smiley I will check out the North America chapter in my city.

    Thank you for linking your story Hassan, it mirrored some of what I went through. I received a good Islamic education but could never bring myself to actually practice, but I always thought would change if I forced myself to go through the motions and found some reformist approach that appealed to me. Haki fadi! Those reformists are fooling themselves at best and at worst are being hypocritical. I don't like a cafeteria style approach to Islam.

    @Qoud Sum Eris: Dude you pissed me off! But then I realized that it's because you are right. It does feel like I've finally grown up. For the first time in my life I feel empowered, which despite everything else, is amazing.

    I feel free. It's a struggle and I went through a lot of depression, but I came to realize that not being a pawn in some grand plan makes me free in the truest and deepest sense of the word.
    Quote from: Abood on May 20, 2015, 08:04 AM

    ^^^Yes! Thank you far away hug
    Welcome.
    Most people here can relate to this. This is why we have this community.
    I feel free. It's a struggle and I went through a lot of depression, but I came to realize that not being a pawn in some grand plan makes me free in the truest and deepest sense of the word.

  • Newly ex Muslim and freaking out
     Reply #28 - May 20, 2015, 02:16 PM
    Oh, slightly off topic, but I forgot to ask. An unflattering story about which Sahabah? Was it Umar?  Grin
  • Newly ex Muslim and freaking out
     Reply #29 - May 20, 2015, 03:12 PM
    Lol, no. Khalid. I was horrified to read the story of him killing a Muslim to rape his wife. But now that I've learned that all the Sirah is inaccurate, maybe that story isn't true either. It doesn't matter though because I'm glad where it led me.
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