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Theme Changer

 Topic: British Values

 (Read 8404 times)
  • 12 Next page « Previous thread | Next thread »
  • British Values
     OP - May 19, 2015, 05:30 PM
    There is currently a search on, with Home Office and Education Department backing for Islamic groups to present some form of acceptable Islam to be taught in schools and prevent radicalisation.

    Would Isma'ili or Ahmadiyya fit the bill?
    When you are a Bear of Very Little Brain, and you Think of Things, you find sometimes that a Thing which seemed very Thingish inside you is quite different when it gets out into the open and has other people looking at it.


    A.A. Milne,

    "We cannot slaughter each other out of the human impasse"
  • British Values
     Reply #1 - May 19, 2015, 06:05 PM
    No. Encouraging sectarianism is not the answer. Encouraging critical thought is the answer. Encourage philosophy, critical studies and history of thought/religion. Education is the best way to tackle extremism and promote community cohesion.

    Vote Jedi for Educaiton Minister.
    No free mixing of the sexes is permitted on these forums or via PM or the various chat groups that are operating.

    Women must write modestly and all men must lower their case.

    http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?425649-Have-some-Hayaa-%28modesty-shame%29-people!
  • British Values
     Reply #2 - May 19, 2015, 08:12 PM
    Quote from: moi on May 19, 2015, 05:30 PM
    There is currently a search on, with Home Office and Education Department backing for Islamic groups to present some form of acceptable Islam to be taught in schools and prevent radicalisation.

    Would Isma'ili or Ahmadiyya fit the bill?


    Neither would be acceptable to most Muslims.
  • British Values
     Reply #3 - May 19, 2015, 08:13 PM
    Quote from: Jedi on May 19, 2015, 06:05 PM
    No. Encouraging sectarianism is not the answer. Encouraging critical thought is the answer. Encourage philosophy, critical studies and history of thought/religion. Education is the best way to tackle extremism and promote community cohesion.

    Vote Jedi for Educaiton Minister.


    Jedi Islam is the answer.
  • British Values
     Reply #4 - May 19, 2015, 08:16 PM
    When I try listing the best of British values, I simply come up with what I regard as universal human values.

    However I do think the dry witty British sense of humour should be complusory.
  • British Values
     Reply #5 - May 19, 2015, 08:24 PM
    Promote universal values. I agree sir  Afro Afro
    No free mixing of the sexes is permitted on these forums or via PM or the various chat groups that are operating.

    Women must write modestly and all men must lower their case.

    http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?425649-Have-some-Hayaa-%28modesty-shame%29-people!
  • British Values
     Reply #6 - May 19, 2015, 09:07 PM
    Have I misunderstood Ismaili?  I thought all Muslims respected them.
    When you are a Bear of Very Little Brain, and you Think of Things, you find sometimes that a Thing which seemed very Thingish inside you is quite different when it gets out into the open and has other people looking at it.


    A.A. Milne,

    "We cannot slaughter each other out of the human impasse"
  • British Values
     Reply #7 - May 19, 2015, 09:17 PM
     Cheesy  Rule of thumb. If it's a sect of Islam, there are plenty of other muslims who hate them.
  • British Values
     Reply #8 - May 19, 2015, 09:32 PM
    Quote from: moi on May 19, 2015, 09:07 PM
    Have I misunderstood Ismaili?  I thought all Muslims respected them.


    Yes I'm afraid you have misunderstood the way Ismailis are regarded by the majority.

    Ismailis are a splinter sect of the Shia and are universally regarded as heretics by others.
  • British Values
     Reply #9 - May 20, 2015, 03:20 AM
    Quote from: moi on May 19, 2015, 05:30 PM
    There is currently a search on, with Home Office and Education Department backing for Islamic groups to present some form of acceptable Islam to be taught in schools and prevent radicalisation.

    I imagine the reaction being "Look! The government is trying to tell us how to practise our religion! They hate islam! They hate muslims!"

    Most muslims I've known, while being perfectly nice people for the most part, have a lot of values that are at odds with most Brits. Their values are (in my experience) far more in line with US bible belt values.
    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • British Values
     Reply #10 - May 20, 2015, 04:13 PM
    Quote from: Hassan on May 19, 2015, 08:16 PM
    However I do think the dry witty British sense of humour should be complusory.


    I think it should be!
    He's no friend to the friendless
    And he's the mother of grief
    There's only sorrow for tomorrow
    Surely life is too brief
  • British Values
     Reply #11 - May 20, 2015, 04:31 PM
    Quote
    Jay Fullmer, 38, yesterday became the first American to get to grips with the concept of irony. "It was weird" Fullmer said. "I was in London and like, talking to this guy and it was raining and he pulled a face and said, "great weather eh?" and I thought "wait a minute, no way is it great weather".

    Fullmer then realised that the other man's 'mistake' was in fact deliberate.

    Fullmer, who is 39 next month and married with two children, aged 8 and 3, plans to use irony himself in future. "I'm like using it all the time." he said. "Last weekend I was grilling steaks and I burned them to sh*t and I said "hey, great weather!".

    When you are a Bear of Very Little Brain, and you Think of Things, you find sometimes that a Thing which seemed very Thingish inside you is quite different when it gets out into the open and has other people looking at it.


    A.A. Milne,

    "We cannot slaughter each other out of the human impasse"
  • British Values
     Reply #12 - May 20, 2015, 08:36 PM
    Looks about right.
    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • British Values
     Reply #13 - May 20, 2015, 09:20 PM
    When you try and ban the burka but you don't succeed,
    When you post viral images of Churchill and the Queen,
    When you feel so British that you use CAPS LOCK to scream,
    You're Britain First....

    And you're not so big on ‘multi-faith’,
    When you say things like it’s a bloody disgrace,
    When none of your facts are evidence-based,
    You're Britain First....

    https://soundcloud.com/britain-furst/fix-uk
    Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil, for I have a sonic screwdriver, a tricorder, and a Type 2 phaser.
  • British Values
     Reply #14 - May 20, 2015, 10:00 PM
     Cheesy  Cheesy

    "Send the bastards back"

    "Britain for the British"

    "Let's send them home. The brown ones and them Poles. Or they'll try to kiss you"

    So awesome Cheesy
  • British Values
     Reply #15 - May 21, 2015, 01:28 AM
    Quote from: Quod Sum Eris on May 20, 2015, 03:20 AM
    I imagine the reaction being "Look! The government is trying to tell us how to practise our religion! They hate islam! They hate muslims!"

    Most muslims I've known, while being perfectly nice people for the most part, have a lot of values that are at odds with most Brits. Their values are (in my experience) far more in line with US bible belt values.


    That is pretty damn pitiful. Bible Belt values are all about ¨Us vs. Them¨ and stagnation. You cannot even count on hospitality.
    Don't let Hitler have the street.
  • British Values
     Reply #16 - May 21, 2015, 09:34 AM
    Sad isn't it.
    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • British Values
     Reply #17 - May 21, 2015, 10:27 AM
    Quote from: galfromusa on May 20, 2015, 09:20 PM
    When you try and ban the burka but you don't succeed,
    When you post viral images of Churchill and the Queen,
    When you feel so British that you use CAPS LOCK to scream,
    You're Britain First....

    And you're not so big on ‘multi-faith’,
    When you say things like it’s a bloody disgrace,
    When none of your facts are evidence-based,
    You're Britain First....

    https://soundcloud.com/britain-furst/fix-uk

     Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy
  • British Values
     Reply #18 - May 22, 2015, 09:50 AM
    Then what about the parents who raise them kids... and Islamic sschools.
    Dogs never bite me - just humans. ~ M. Monroe

    Religions seem to cause more grief than good.

    Exmuslim Chat
  • British Values
     Reply #19 - May 22, 2015, 04:01 PM
    Quote from: galfromusa on May 20, 2015, 09:20 PM
    When you try and ban the burka but you don't succeed,
    When you post viral images of Churchill and the Queen,
    When you feel so British that you use CAPS LOCK to scream,
    You're Britain First....

    And you're not so big on ‘multi-faith’,
    When you say things like it’s a bloody disgrace,
    When none of your facts are evidence-based,
    You're Britain First....

    https://soundcloud.com/britain-furst/fix-uk


    Absolutely awesome.   Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy
    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • British Values
     Reply #20 - May 22, 2015, 04:11 PM
    I have to say though, I really do detest the whole 'British Values' thing, especially since my kids are being made to attend to it, since it's part of the Government's drive to instil Nationalism into the youth.

    What exactly is it that I as a Brit should value, that is distinctly British?  and I mean never before seen in history, in other parts of the world? 

    I honestly can think of nothing.  First to emancipate women or slaves? no.  First to award basic human rights? no.  First to award suffrage to men/women? no.

    British values?  no.  Humanistic values?  yes.  Why nationalise it?  You do that, and you risk alienating the very people you are hoping to befriend. 
    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • British Values
     Reply #21 - May 22, 2015, 04:15 PM
    That's the intention. Alienating immigrants then blaming them for not "integrating". As if integration is not a two-way street.
  • British Values
     Reply #22 - May 22, 2015, 04:20 PM
    Yup.  It's not really integration they are after though, it's assimilation.  Which is a shame, because other cultures have a lot we can value too. 





    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • British Values
     Reply #23 - May 22, 2015, 04:24 PM
    The ironic thing about the whole "integration" thing is that Westerners tend to be the worst at integrating. Even in conservative Muslim countries they form their own expat communities where they somehow manage to get authorities to turn a blind eye to their cultural practices like drinking and wearing revealing clothing.

    And I mean that's not necessarily a bad thing. Dubai has been liberalizing basically to attract expats. And now Kuwait is doing the same. There are rumours that Kuwait wants to build the first bar/night club. I dunno when/if that's going to happen, but there's definitely a huge push lately influenced by Dubai to develop the country and make it more appealing.

    Societies develop by integrating other cultures. As you said, other cultures have a lot we can value too.
  • British Values
     Reply #24 - May 22, 2015, 04:34 PM
    Quote from: BerberElla on May 22, 2015, 04:11 PM
    British values?  no.  Humanistic values?  yes.  Why nationalise it?


    Completely agree!!
  • British Values
     Reply #25 - May 23, 2015, 12:05 PM
    It's an interesting question. Considering the rise of segregated and divided communities and a growing us vs them mentality, do we need something to unite us as fellow citizens?
    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • British Values
     Reply #26 - May 23, 2015, 12:32 PM
    Walking along Church Street off Edgware Road on most days, but especially market days will show you that people from a wide variety of ethnic backgrounds, races and cultures are indeed united by their shared experience living and working together. This morning I saw a Moroccan store holder helping and greeting his English neighbours running a fish stall and on the otherside a veg stall. They make and laugh together. Local characters shuffle by and say hi and shake hand or touch fists. English traders joke with a familiar hijabi customer. Polish and Iraqi shopkeepers sharing tea and olives. A niqabi stoops to pick up something a elderly lady in a wheelchair dropped. And so on… I love Church Street. Someone should do a documentary about it. It is British values in action. Tolerance. Cooperation. Humour. Hard work ethic. Helping others. Inclusiveness. Generosity. Etc... Of course at the same time these are universal values, but here they are displayed by people in the uk who share a local connection.
  • British Values
     Reply #27 - May 23, 2015, 01:08 PM
    Quote from: moi on May 19, 2015, 05:30 PM
    There is currently a search on, with Home Office and Education Department backing for Islamic groups to present some form of acceptable Islam to be taught in schools and prevent radicalisation.

    Would Isma'ili or Ahmadiyya fit the bill?


    Two issues are being raised here. One is British values and the other is religious schools.

    I think everyone has a different understanding of what British values are. Our constitution does not define it, unlike the French constitution which bases its founding principles on secularism. Therefore, in order for British values to be defined and to end this debate about what our values are, the constitution would be a good starting point. Currently our constitution is not codified. As soon as our constitution is amended to identify our common values, then the sooner the general public will feel...united? Government and related institution will echo British values once it is enshrined in a document.

    I think our values are based on universal human rights. Whatever our common values are, it must be something that the majority can agree on and feel passionate about.

    I personally don't care about these concepts. I have always focused on my life to the point where I hardly notice what other people are doing. I don't like the idea of telling others how to live. As long as people are going about their daily lives, without harming anyone else, then I have no concerns.  I do appreciate that my personal view is not...realistic. When there are no common values shared amongst people, then there will be divisions and ultimately it will lead to clashes.

    As for schools...well there should be no school that advocates a certain ideology in the UK. It does not work in a society which is made up of different cultures. Schools should teach all sorts of ideologies/belief systems and equip students with the skills to critically evaluate them.

    EDIT:

    To be honest I think the reason the divisions are growing stronger is due to the economy and poverty. When people are disadvantaged, they start to find something that can give them comfort and security. For some Muslims they turn to Islam. For others...they may start forming groups.



  • British Values
     Reply #28 - May 23, 2015, 02:04 PM
    Quote from: Quod Sum Eris on May 23, 2015, 12:05 PM
    It's an interesting question. Considering the rise of segregated and divided communities and a growing us vs them mentality, do we need something to unite us as fellow citizens?


    Yes we need something. The problem is tribalism is alive and well in religions and the concept of the state.
  • British Values
     Reply #29 - May 23, 2015, 02:33 PM
    Some pictures to go with British values grin12

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