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Theme Changer

 Topic: Is Faith Necessary?

 (Read 3342 times)
  • 12 Next page « Previous thread | Next thread »
  • Is Faith Necessary?
     OP - May 02, 2015, 03:25 PM
    Very interesting discussion:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xomaqSOxZiU

  • Is Faith Necessary?
     Reply #1 - May 02, 2015, 03:53 PM
    Scott Atran (the Anthropologist) puts forward a compelling argument why faith is necessary to bind and motivate human beings.
  • Is Faith Necessary?
     Reply #2 - May 02, 2015, 03:53 PM
    The Humanist (Pavan Dhaliwal) was at a loss.
  • Is Faith Necessary?
     Reply #3 - May 02, 2015, 03:54 PM
    And the Philosopher (Simon Blackburn) wasn't convincing.
  • Is Faith Necessary?
     Reply #4 - May 02, 2015, 04:42 PM
    I think Scott means "hope", not "faith", as he hopes for the betterment of the human species and not "faith" in a religious sense of claim certainty for objective claims which have zero evidence.
  • Is Faith Necessary?
     Reply #5 - May 02, 2015, 05:17 PM
    Quote from: Hassan on May 02, 2015, 03:53 PM
    The Humanist (Pavan Dhaliwal) was at a loss.


    No... nope.... She was NOT at loss., 

    Anthropo ..   whatever poo.................... if he believes in some  faith  then he is talking to people of 19, and 20th century not to 21st century folks.

    In 21st century high school kids will question everything and every faith .,   Mr. Scott  should NOT use that word "Faith" as in " religious faith" in that discussion., it  is a wrong word to use w.r.t that debate.   "HOPE" is a better word..
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • Is Faith Necessary?
     Reply #6 - May 02, 2015, 05:41 PM
    Did you watch the discussion?

    Scott Atran is himself a liberal atheist. He's simply stating the case as he sees it that faith/transcendental beliefs have always in the past - and continues to this day, bind, motivate & drive people to achieve and progress and we have yet to find any alternative to faith.

    btw he regards those who believe in things like Human Rights (i.e. the "self-evident" truth that "all people are equal") - to be following a faith too!!

  • Is Faith Necessary?
     Reply #7 - May 02, 2015, 05:53 PM
    Quote
    Scott Atran is himself a liberal atheist. He's simply stating the case as he sees it that faith/transcendental beliefs has always in the past - and continues to this day, bind, motivate & drive people to achieve and progress and we have yet to find any alternative to faith.


    Pretty much my opinion about faith.

    Too bad the motivation isn't always good and the result is questionable.

    I'm conflicted with this, I've been trying to make smaller religion like Sikhism to be more popular so that people would have more options to choose instead of just... Christianity, Islam both are very sexist religion.

    People need religion, it doesn't matter what religion it is.
  • Is Faith Necessary?
     Reply #8 - May 03, 2015, 02:13 AM
    Quote from: Helaine on May 02, 2015, 05:53 PM
    People need religion, it doesn't matter what religion it is.


    People need an altered brain state, it doesn't matter what drug they use.
    Quote from: yeezevee on February 11, 2016, 02:05 PM
    how fuck works without shit??


    Let's Play Chess!

    harakaat, friend, RIP
  • Is Faith Necessary?
     Reply #9 - May 03, 2015, 03:37 AM
    Quote from: Helaine on May 02, 2015, 05:53 PM
    People need religion, it doesn't matter what religion it is.

    So how do you account for all the people who don't need religion?
    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Is Faith Necessary?
     Reply #10 - May 03, 2015, 04:03 AM

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U3pAxAHT0jg

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=28&v=g9iADQSMYvU
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • Is Faith Necessary?
     Reply #11 - May 03, 2015, 08:33 AM
    Quote from: yeezevee on May 03, 2015, 04:03 AM
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U3pAxAHT0jg


    Wow that video was moving, Yeezy!! Brought a tear to my eye. Bless that little girl - what a sweet angel she is!!

    And yes - that video just shows the power of faith and how it can keep you going through the darkest times.

    The problem with all this of course is you have to believe it lol
  • Is Faith Necessary?
     Reply #12 - May 03, 2015, 08:34 AM
    The interviewer is an Egyptian - so I'm guessing that SAT channel is run by Egyptian Copts. Well good for them!!  Afro
  • Is Faith Necessary?
     Reply #13 - May 03, 2015, 11:53 AM
    Quote from: Hassan on May 02, 2015, 05:41 PM
    Did you watch the discussion?

    No  Hassan I haven't watched all of it and I have a  FAITH  in you that  you watched it and   you correctly describing it in few words
    Quote
    Scott Atran is himself a liberal atheist. He's simply stating the case as he sees it that faith/transcendental beliefs have always in the past - and continues to this day, bind, motivate & drive people to achieve and progress and we have yet to find any alternative to faith.

     may be he is a liberal atheists ., but when it comes to faith I prefer people with Humanistic atheism not   liberal  atheism . But I do understand your point.

    Quote
    btw he regards those who believe in things like Human Rights (i.e. the "self-evident" truth that "all people are equal") - to be following a faith too!!

     I am of the opinion  folks who have unquestionable faith in any of these "Isms" including humanism, atheism and all other zillion religions is NOT a good thing..  well what all I was saying is this
    Quote
    Mr. Scott  should NOT use that word "Faith" as in " religious faith" in that discussion.,

    But dr. Scott Atran being anthropologist he was doing the discussion w.r.t anthropology of tribal cultures and   effect of faith   on these tribal cultures.  I am sure he knows "FAITH AT ITS CORE IS NONSENSE AND HAS NO VALUE WITH REFERENCE TO ORIGINS"  It is true faith in something with non-destructive values does wonders to innocent children  as you said from that Kid's interview of Coptic Christian guy ..  but you know well faith is equally destructive .. watch that 2nd tube in that post watch it  along with these tubes.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=28&v=g9iADQSMYvU

    And read that statement at 2:18 mts in that video..  "JIHAD MEANS OFFENSIVE WAR"  .. that is the faith the non-Muslims have on Islam. And millions of brainless Muslims including 1000s of Islamic preachers also reinforce that statement as if it is  Islam and nothing but Islam.
    Quote
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSwpAX1xvrc

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LACyLTsH4ac

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8dPb1bF-s4M  


    However good faith may be.. brain washing children with faith is deadly, dangerous and moreover at a fundamental level faith,  the unquestionable faith  is false and nonsense.  
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • Is Faith Necessary?
     Reply #14 - May 03, 2015, 02:44 PM
    Quote from: Quod Sum Eris on May 03, 2015, 03:37 AM
    So how do you account for all the people who don't need religion?


    I guess a better term is "People need faith/hope".

    Religion instantly give you philosophy / way of life / charity / community of like-minded people so it's very easy to fall trap to this. You don't need to come up with anything on your own, since religion is centuries old they are proven to have worked fine. Not to mention that special status of being blessed by God... uuuurgh.
  • Is Faith Necessary?
     Reply #15 - May 03, 2015, 02:51 PM
    Hmm this is fun discussion
    Quote
    Quote from: Helaine on May 02, 2015, 05:53 PM
    Pretty much my opinion about faith.
    .....................
    People need religion, it doesn't matter what religion it is.

     
    Quote from: Quod Sum Eris on May 03, 2015, 03:37 AM
    So how do you account for all the people who don't need religion?


    Quote from: Helaine on May 03, 2015, 02:44 PM
    I guess a better term is "People need faith/hope".

    ................

      

    I think QSD was drunk like skunk when he was asking that question .

    Helaine forgive that guy   See that.. See how people change your views in this forum.,  Well there are some zebras by birth who just don't care and laugh at faiths...  

    But Helaine  Now it is your turn to change "Hassan"  Cheesy

    Frankly speaking I only say  faith is bad  to those faiths and to those people who do not allow to question their faith...  I have no problem WITH ANY FAITH AND ANY  FAITH HEAD   as long as they follow  and  use this simple rule in their lives..
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • Is Faith Necessary?
     Reply #16 - May 03, 2015, 03:20 PM
    Nope. Sober.
    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Is Faith Necessary?
     Reply #17 - May 03, 2015, 05:00 PM
    Quote from: yeezevee on May 03, 2015, 11:53 AM
    No  Hassan I haven't watched all of it and I have a  FAITH  in you that  you watched it and   you correctly describing it in few words


    Well a few words can't do it justice - but in answer to the objection that "faith" only brings violence, division and conflict - his argument in the video is that contrary to this popular view - that isn't entirely true - at least it is not the whole story - despite what we may think when looking at today's headlines!

    For the vast majority of people - throughout history and still today - faith has not inspired them to acts of violence, but acts that have been beneficial for the survival and evolution of the human race. He would argue that most people of faith do not take things literally and are not fundamentalists and fanatics. And that in fact "faith" has been a source of many good things and been behind many enlightened movements.

    He would say that while it is also a source for the bad things such as war and division - the job it does of serving to motivate, bind and give meaning to man - and indeed driving mankind's amazingly fast evolution and progress in comparison to other creatures who lacked that ability to be bound, live and die for some transcendental ideal - outweighs its harmful effects.

    He is not opposed to finding new ways to achieve this - but is simply stating the fact that as yet mankind has not found anything to match the power of religion.
  • Is Faith Necessary?
     Reply #18 - May 03, 2015, 05:20 PM
    The only problem of course is that 'faith' doesn't work if you don't have it lol and it is not something you can just put on like socks. You either believe and have faith - or you don't.

    Personally I would like to believe in God, I would like to believe that there is some greater meaning and purpose to a world that seem quite absurd and pointless - but I simply can't "will" myself to believe. I can't be like Dorothy in the Wizard of Oz and click my heels 3 times and say "I do believe, I do believe, I do believe!"

    The fact is I nether believe God exists nor believe he doesn't. I just don't know. At times I very much doubt it. At other times I just hope and wonder.
  • Is Faith Necessary?
     Reply #19 - May 03, 2015, 08:30 PM
    Spirituality is important. Dalai Lama in 'Beyond Religion'.
    No free mixing of the sexes is permitted on these forums or via PM or the various chat groups that are operating.

    Women must write modestly and all men must lower their case.

    http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?425649-Have-some-Hayaa-%28modesty-shame%29-people!
  • Is Faith Necessary?
     Reply #20 - May 03, 2015, 10:37 PM
    Quote from: Jedi on May 03, 2015, 08:30 PM
    Spirituality is important.



    Why?

    NOTE: I don't disagree - I just want to hear your reasoning Smiley
  • Is Faith Necessary?
     Reply #21 - May 04, 2015, 12:29 AM
    You're saying all these provocative things Hassan, when there's a bit of a lull in the forums. But soon enough smart people will come back (don't look at me), and your ideas will be challenged! Mark my words!
    Quote from: yeezevee on February 11, 2016, 02:05 PM
    how fuck works without shit??


    Let's Play Chess!

    harakaat, friend, RIP
  • Is Faith Necessary?
     Reply #22 - May 04, 2015, 01:58 AM
    Quote from: Hassan
    He would say that while it is also a source for the bad things such as war and division - the job it does of serving to motivate, bind and give meaning to man - and indeed driving mankind's amazingly fast evolution and progress in comparison to other creatures who lacked that ability to be bound, live and die for some transcendental ideal - outweighs its harmful effects.


    Well he would first need to prove that other species do not have supernatural beliefs. I Am skeptical that other species exist based on fear alone, especially species with very strict hierarchial structures like ants. There has to be something that wires their brains so that they follow the system so obediently. And judging by the way my dog used to bark at the moon and thunder, certainly other species make supernatural assumptions about things they do not understand.

    And I would not agree that faith has driven man's amazing progress or given us "meaning". It was precisely when we abandoned religion that we realised our true potential and our progress, both scientifically and morally, really took off. Like the moment on the Truman Show when Truman finally realizes that he can escape the artificial boundaries that have been set for him and go wherever he wants and be whatever he wants to be.

    I haven't watched the video yet but I look forward to it. Afro
  • Is Faith Necessary?
     Reply #23 - May 04, 2015, 07:34 AM
    He is not only talking about organised religion, Tony and he says the reason our unremarkable species suddenly took off while others remained jumping from tree to tree is that our minds gained the ability to have faith in transcendental concepts that bound us and gave us the ability to work and unite with strangers outside our family group.

    I take your example of ants but they surely don't have the ability to think in abstract ideals and beliefs as we do.
  • Is Faith Necessary?
     Reply #24 - May 04, 2015, 07:37 AM
    Quote from: asbie on May 04, 2015, 12:29 AM
    You're saying all these provocative things Hassan


    Lol…  well don't worry I'm not about to turn all religious grin12

    Actually the main problem I see is that for such a thing to work one needs to believe. It seems to me that we may be starting to evolve beyond the need for faith.

    Hence all the upheaval.
  • Is Faith Necessary?
     Reply #25 - May 04, 2015, 10:30 AM
    Quote
    Quote from: Jedi on May 03, 2015, 08:30 PM
    Spirituality is important. Dalai Lama in 'Beyond Religion'.

     
    Quote from: Hassan on May 03, 2015, 10:37 PM

    Why?

    NOTE: I don't disagree - I just want to hear your reasoning Smiley


    what a silly question to ask... because the same question can be asked again and again all the way to the end of human race.....

    Why Spirituality is important?
    because of ..a...  

    then why ..a... is important??
    because of ..b...  so on and on..

    but if you guys ask the question. Why god is important?
    answer becomes simple...So Jedi what is Spirituality ?  how do we define it??

    do you want know how confusing the answers for that question are? Type in google god and read every link...
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • Is Faith Necessary?
     Reply #26 - May 04, 2015, 11:02 AM
    Yeezy - could I make a suggestion - please could you stick to responding to posts that are either directed to you or directed to the forum in general - and keep out of other people's conversations.

    You seem to think you are the forum watchdog.

    I wouldn't mind so much if you actually said anything useful, but I'm afraid I find most of your contributions are a waste of space at best.

    You also scare and frighten newbies with your inane ramblings.
  • Is Faith Necessary?
     Reply #27 - May 04, 2015, 11:08 AM
    Quote from: Hassan on May 04, 2015, 11:02 AM
    .......
    You seem to think you are the forum watchdog.
    .................

    I never thought like that but you seem to have a point there Hassan.. ...  may be I am worse than that "watch dog" ... but just a dog
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • Is Faith Necessary?
     Reply #28 - May 04, 2015, 11:22 AM
    Quote from: yeezevee on May 04, 2015, 11:08 AM
    I never thought like that but you seem to have a point there Hassan.. ...  may be I am worse than that "watch dog" ... but just a dog


    The link you posted is quite funny lol - the guy has done a pretty good job.

    But this is what I mean - I mean posting a link to something that is really irrelevant, as part of your reply to something else.

    Honestly, Yeezy - you're totally nuts  grin12

    (ps - though I did get the "Troll or Hero" reference lol)
  • Is Faith Necessary?
     Reply #29 - May 04, 2015, 11:55 AM
    Well islam is brainwash





    cemna.com
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