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Theme Changer

 Topic: Ayaan Hirsi Ali

 (Read 4468 times)
  • 1« Previous thread | Next thread »
  • Ayaan Hirsi Ali
     OP - April 27, 2015, 12:27 AM

    What is the opinion of people in here on Ayaan Hirsi Ali in general, and specifically on her recent attempts to reform Islam?

    I agree with her on most issues; Islam in it's purist form is a untenable ideology in the modern world, there is a strong urgency for a reformation (whatever form this will take) and most believing Muslims are silently agreeing with the fanatics, willingly or unwillingly, because of fear of reprisals or cognitive dissonance.

    However, she loses me when she ignores, whitewashes, belittles or mentions as a footnote the West's negative involvement in the Muslim world for nearly a century now. As of late, invading Iraq on the false pretense of Saddam having nuclear weapons only exacerbated the situation, and put Muslims in the hands of the extremists. Supporting Israel, which illegally continues to build settlements in future Palestinian land, while speaking of human rights just reeks of hypocrisy in my opinion. As for being defended by the Christian right, neo-cons and other war hawks, I'm starting to think of her as a political puppet grooming the public for another war in the ME, rather than a sincere advocate for positive change.

    Speaking of change, I don't think the average Muslim will accept her five points of reforming Islam. Why? She is not a Islamic authority like Yusuf Qaradawi (someone most Muslims sadly follow) or a Tariq Ramadhan who is working from within the community. Besides, bluntly calling for Muslims to totally disregard the Medinian verses and other such statements is way too crass. You need to get around their psychological hard wiring by calling for contextualization, a stronger emphasis on Itjihad etc etc. I know, a snaky salesman style but I see no other pragmatic way to go about this. You could also entirely undermine religion altogether (a method I think will work better), but of course it is easier for us living in the West to reject religion as we are in a better socio-economic position. After all, how can people find time to philosophize when they have to worry about putting food on the table?

    All things being equal though, I think the solution is somewhere to be found in:

    - The West not mingling in Muslim affairs abroad (so far working out)
    - Insisting on secularism at home and promoting it abroad (still work to be done)
    - Improving the socio-economic status of people in the MENA region (easier said than done)
    - Undermining religion altogether, by dissidents ramping up their activism online and focusing on the MENA region

    Her whole venture just smells of political pandering, book sales and self-promotion in my opinion. I usually take my time before judging people but I'm calling bullshit on this one pretty quickly.

    What do you think?
  • Ayaan Hirsi Ali
     Reply #1 - April 27, 2015, 12:13 PM

    Ayaan Hirsi Ali is no friend to reformers. She's very firmly placed herself outside the fold of islam and often speaks about it in ways that come across purely as attacks. Ultimately I think islamic reform has to come from the inside, not the outside, though I do think the very existence of ex-muslims, especially in countries where ex-muslims are protected by law and those laws are enforced, will also go a ways to normalising apostasy which will have it's own effects, one I hope it an increased tolerance for those who leave the faith and open criticism, which is itself a form of reform, and an important one.

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Ayaan Hirsi Ali
     Reply #2 - April 27, 2015, 12:24 PM

    ............. Ultimately I think islamic reform has to come from the inside, not the outside, ..............


    first let us identify those  reforms first QSD., what reforms does Islam needs? what reforms do Muslims need?   what reforms can any one do those Islamic scriptures?

     Do these reforms have to come from Western born Muslims or Muslims from the so-called Islamic  countries ??

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Ayaan Hirsi Ali
     Reply #3 - April 27, 2015, 01:47 PM

    Ayaan Hirsi Ali is no friend to reformers. She's very firmly placed herself outside the fold of islam and often speaks about it in ways that come across purely as attacks. Ultimately I think islamic reform has to come from the inside, not the outside, though I do think the very existence of ex-muslims, especially in countries where ex-muslims are protected by law and those laws are enforced, will also go a ways to normalising apostasy which will have it's own effects, one I hope it an increased tolerance for those who leave the faith and open criticism, which is itself a form of reform, and an important one.


    She changed her views and published a book that covers her new views and the Arab Spring. Not that I support her at all.
  • Ayaan Hirsi Ali
     Reply #4 - May 01, 2015, 02:07 AM

    She changed her views................. Not that I support her at all.

    Ayaan Hirsi Ali is no friend to reformers. .................

    What is the opinion of people in here on Ayaan Hirsi Ali in general,................. As for being defended by the Christian right, neo-cons and other war hawks, I'm starting to think of her as a political puppet grooming the public for another war in the ME, rather than a sincere advocate for positive change.

    ................................
    What do you think?


    forget Ayaan Hirsi Ali enter Mona Walter....Somali

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=84&v=d4Q8bImiPCM

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f0GV03ZfOUA

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NnRFCcjglFw

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Ayaan Hirsi Ali
     Reply #5 - May 01, 2015, 06:25 PM

    From what I've seen of Hirsi Ali , she seems well-intentioned, but a lot of the time seems just to be repeating the talking points of the right-wing, anti-immigration crowd.

    For instance, I saw an interview in which she blamed the European welfare state for Islamic radicalism, and mentioned Mohammed Bouyeri, the assassin of Theo Van Gogh. She said that being on welfare allowed Bouyeri the leisure time to plan the murder.

    Well, not that I'm an expert on killing people, but I can't imagine that killing a small-time film director is like killing the president of the US. Bouyeri probably could have planned it out even while holidng down a full-time job.
  • Ayaan Hirsi Ali
     Reply #6 - May 01, 2015, 06:47 PM

    re: Mona Walter. I think I might have a new crush.

    That said, her presentation of history in the third video is a little one-sided, making it sound as if for over 1 400 years we've just had Muslims killing Christians for no reason. I think it's been going more in both directions, actually.

    Plus, she relies on quotes from the Koran to make her point that Islam is evil, which ignores the fact that extra-scriptural forces can have a negative impact on religions as well.
  • Ayaan Hirsi Ali
     Reply #7 - May 01, 2015, 07:28 PM

    From what I've seen of Hirsi Ali , she seems well-intentioned, but a lot of the time seems just to be repeating the talking points of the right-wing, anti-immigration crowd.

    For instance, I saw an interview in which she blamed the European welfare state for Islamic radicalism, and mentioned Mohammed Bouyeri, the assassin of Theo Van Gogh. She said that being on welfare allowed Bouyeri the leisure time to plan the murder.

    Well, not that I'm an expert on killing people, but I can't imagine that killing a small-time film director is like killing the president of the US. Bouyeri probably could have planned it out even while holidng down a full-time job.

    ^word.


    Dogs never bite me - just humans. ~ M. Monroe

    Religions seem to cause more grief than good.

    Exmuslim Chat
  • Ayaan Hirsi Ali
     Reply #8 - May 01, 2015, 07:40 PM

    I lost respect for Ayyan Hirsi Ali quite a while ago when she threw her lot in with the Neocons.

    As for what she is saying about reform. I suspect she has just read:

    "Toward an Islamic Reformation: Civil Liberties, Human Rights, and International Law."

    By Abdullahi Ahmed An-Na'im

    as these views are more eloquently stated there.
  • Ayaan Hirsi Ali
     Reply #9 - May 01, 2015, 07:47 PM

    A critic of Islam should avoid giving tips for reform, in my opinion.Any argument given by an exmuslim critic of Islam will more likely undermine it.Why is it that so few think in more than one step....

  • Re: Ayaan Hirsi Ali
     Reply #10 - May 01, 2015, 07:54 PM

    re: Mona Walter. I think I might have a new crush.

    That said, her presentation of history in the third video is a little one-sided, making it sound as if for over 1 400 years we've just had Muslims killing Christians for no reason. I think it's been going more in both directions, actually.

    Plus, she relies on quotes from the Koran to make her point that Islam is evil, which ignores the fact that extra-scriptural forces can have a negative impact on religions as well.

    Walter cooperates and shares platform with extremists. Last time I watched a video with her, she was speaking on a panel with Ingrid Carlqvist and Lars Hedegaard as hosts, two individuals who promote racial supremacy.Also, she'll face problems using Ibn Ishaq,Zamakshari and others as sources.
  • Ayaan Hirsi Ali
     Reply #11 - May 01, 2015, 08:29 PM

    forget Ayaan Hirsi Ali enter Mona Walter....Somali

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=84&v=d4Q8bImiPCM



    Gosh, Somali women are pretty - lovely eyes like a gazelle lol  Afro

    Sad though that she just went from one version of nonsense to another. Had she acquired a bit more knowledge she would have realised Christianity is a load of bollox too  grin12
  • Ayaan Hirsi Ali
     Reply #12 - January 09, 2016, 01:30 AM

    Ayaan Hirsi Ali on the Challenge of Radical Islam Conversations with Bill Kristol  Jan 3, 2016

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kdfQEJ53aXA

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Ayaan Hirsi Ali
     Reply #13 - January 09, 2016, 05:31 AM

    Gosh, Somali women are pretty - lovely eyes like a gazelle lol  Afro

    Sad though that she just went from one version of nonsense to another. Had she acquired a bit more knowledge she would have realised Christianity is a load of bollox too  grin12

    The Christian one is less pretty because she has the holier-than-thou look that comes so naturally to the chosen. Ayaan looks naughtier.
  • Ayaan Hirsi Ali
     Reply #14 - August 14, 2016, 01:50 PM

    Ayaan Hirsi Ali  hits out and Asian women on Islam

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iDLUelj02-E

    that is Published on Apr 9, 2016  

    You fools that support Islam ..or for that matter to any faith.. you can give all the support to faith and faith heads  PROVIDED IF YOU COME  OUT OPENLY SAY IN PUBLIC THAT QURAN IS NOT WORD OF ALLAH /GOD..

    and you should of that on the steps of a Mosque  in front of Muslim crowd .. then yes I believe you guys.. otherwise you are just plain old apologists of Islam.

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Ayaan Hirsi Ali
     Reply #15 - August 14, 2016, 02:54 PM

    Ali would have an attack at Christian and Jewish theology if she was given the chance.  She says the problem with ALL MONOTHEIST religion is ...........   So that includes Christians and Jews.  It just depends on her audience what she says. 

    The unreligion, only one calorie
  • Ayaan Hirsi Ali
     Reply #16 - August 18, 2016, 11:44 AM

    Ali would have an attack at Christian and Jewish theology if she was given the chance.  She says the problem with ALL MONOTHEIST religion is ...........   So that includes Christians and Jews.  It just depends on her audience what she says.  

    well I have to agree with her., All faiths, all religions,   all cults are filled with  superstitious nonsense and bullshit in them .   the paganism/polytheistic  gods/goddesses dilutes the shit  out of  so-called  Monotheistic   rules and rule books  consequently they will have less control on   society  religious, family,  political,  economical,  ritual rules as they are flexible and  the follower will  allow  to question the rules

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Ayaan Hirsi Ali
     Reply #17 - October 12, 2016, 09:19 PM

    Ayaan Hirsi Ali's Lies Exposed Part 4 parts

    Quote


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JgkB-qvk-O4


    So i am completely  screwed up with time and priorities .,   postponewatching those tunes,  watch all that later but let me read more of her critics

    Quote
    Alfred Malam1 year ago

    Men this way too much for me. The First phrase she said I know she is fool of shit she is been used or coached to say this, Am talking about the first question the 60 minute guy asked her. Her answer is "The American Dream" She was in the Netherlands what does the American dream has to do with someone in the Netherlands? Is like just say this the Americans will be impressed.

    After seen this woman all these years and this video here, I strongly believe their is someone that we members of the public do not see that is helping her make all these moves.

    Now people tell me how can you flew from Kenya and landed in Germany (not your dentation you suppose to be going to Toronto ),you did not ask for  political asylum in Germany where you landed instead you took a train to the Netherlands asked for asylum their and within 5 weeks you are granted political asylum.5 weeks is a shot period  to complete an investigation on political asylum case and make a decision on that case.

    There is someone behind the scene that is pooling the strings for her and at he same time using her effectively  to say very negative things about Muslims.
    She made a very negative movie about Islam. Come to think it, all these was base on lies, she was not  forced in to marrying someone, there is no honor killings in Somalia, her so call husband did not abuse her and yet she made a movie base on the above things I just mentioned and put the blame on Islam.
    As I stated earlier there is an unseen forces behind her that is controlling her to do this.

    Granted Asylum in 5 weeks, became MP, get interview right away with 60 Minutes, Time magazine name her as one of the people that influence our lives besides the president.

    Her political party found out that all the thinks she was saying are all lies yet they are willing to look the other way. All they say is " its not important"  woo, woo, woo come-on people.

    I think lying is has become an addiction for her, she cannot stop lying. Someone please take her to a rehab if there is one for lying.

    You know the phony thing? They still put  this lady on TV  and they expect the public to still believe she is credible.Just recently CBC Canada flew her all they from the U S for an interview  to rant on Muslims.

    I said to myself CBC are you kidding me? Are you still associating yourself with an addicted layer.In my opening there is an unseen forces behind her that is controlling her and this started all the way back in Kenya. She is a tool for them.

    For you young girls when they found out that  you have that self hate, you hate your kind, you hate your culture, you hate your root, these people will  use you effectively to spread the self hate and this is exactly what is happing with our sister here but she don't even realized that yet.


    Quote
    Tha Joka3 months ago

    wanna become rich and famous? convert to Islam and after a few years leave Islam and write a book bashing Islam, you're gonna become a NY TIMES best seller in no time.


    Quote
    Paki Fighter4 months ago

    You are truly misguided. You are saying that you do believe a liar, and youve got no problem with that ? Amazing..... maybe if you knew a little bit about Islam.....


    Quote
    ARIAN MUHAMAD10 months ago

    I didn't believe people when they said this women is a fraud. so i decided to find out for myself. I watched several of her videos and its very very clear that this women has no idea what islam is and her bigot arguments are far from reality. after watching her in a interview with Tariq Ramadan i realized what a uneducated liar and a oppurtunitist she is. But she is well funded don't assume just because she is a fraud she isn't making it.

    she has made a lot of money and is well funded by organizations who are in business to dehumanize muslims and portray islam as a whole. i don't think people should hate her or curse her or anything like that. she comes from a poor african country and she is desperate i feel bad for her and i pray that she finds peace.


    Quote
    Snow Crow11 months ago

    She was never a muslim....she comes from Christian family........but made the whole story up, just like all the other fake e-Muslims....


    Quote
    Walid Shabaab1 year ago

    Listen here idiot, the bitch is a liar end of story. It's how people like you defend this crooked bitch just bc she is against muslim. Lol even the Dutch government threw her lying ass out. And you defending this bitch just shows your deep seeded ignorance  her dad gave her everything and she sold him out for the fame and money with lies about him and her entire family.  why don't you get that ..jeez


    Quote
    Othman Ahmad9 months ago

    +Muhammad Moosa - Her lies have been exposed. Ayaan Hirsi Ali real name Ayaan Hirsi Magaan is a liar who left Somalia when she was 7 year old and never went back to somalia since.Her family never threaten her life she was in contact with her family even in Netherland she also met her ex husband in Netherland. She knows nothing about Somali culture. She is lying about Islam & Somali culture to gain financially by writing books & films with full of lies & fiction stories for FAME AND MONEY. That's their hero idol, at the expense of Muslims....!!


    Quote
    Senny_sen5 months ago

    Imbecile Islam prohibits female circumcision, it against Islam. It's a culture practice, it was done by uneducated individuals for cultural reasons. Once a liar always a liar. A leopard will never change his spots, There is nothing factual about Ayan Hirsi who lied about her Mother, so do you think she got any sense of decency.

    Quote

    Farooq Al-Jabarti1 year ago


    we disowned her, and she knows she cant step a foot in Somalia, or even Kenya.


    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Ayaan Hirsi Ali
     Reply #18 - May 24, 2017, 01:54 PM


    Ayaan Hirsi Ali Speech About Women's Rights Part 1    at University of Wisconsin - Distinguished Lecture series  

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hdcn9OCmEFc

    This 2nd is a question answer session  .. good one to watch and hear 

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_1eqeofMY1c

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Ayaan Hirsi Ali
     Reply #19 - May 24, 2017, 04:05 PM

    She's mistaken. She sees Islam only through the Middle Eastern and African perspective. Islam can't be reformed but we can reform muslim societies. For example, muslims in Bosnia, Albania, Turkey, Azarbaijan, Uzbekistan, Kazakhstan, Malaysia... are liberal muslim societies. Religion and state should be separated in the middle east and african coutries. People in secular muslims coutries don't take for seriously Islamic teachings . Libanon and Tunisia seem like secular countries too.
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