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 Topic: Invisible atheists - the spread of disbelief in the Arab world

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  • Invisible atheists - the spread of disbelief in the Arab world
     OP - April 24, 2015, 07:08 PM
    Ahmed Benchemsi - Invisible atheists: the spread of disbelief in the Arab world

    http://www.newrepublic.com/article/121559/rise-arab-atheists
    Which side are you on?
  • Invisible atheists - the spread of disbelief in the Arab world
     Reply #1 - April 24, 2015, 07:54 PM
    Quote
    [“My guess is, every Egyptian family contains an atheist, or at least someone with critical ideas about Islam/quote]

    I wonder if that is true of all families?

    When you are a Bear of Very Little Brain, and you Think of Things, you find sometimes that a Thing which seemed very Thingish inside you is quite different when it gets out into the open and has other people looking at it.


    A.A. Milne,

    "We cannot slaughter each other out of the human impasse"
  • Invisible atheists - the spread of disbelief in the Arab world
     Reply #2 - April 24, 2015, 08:05 PM
    Quote
    Likewise, while Islam requires its followers to pray five times a day at fixed times, including twice during working hours, believers typically skip the prayers while they’re at work and perform them once back home. In Saudi Arabia, one of the most zealous Arab countries when it comes to religious protocol, shops have to close for about 15 minutes at each prayer call to allow the customers to perform their religious duty. But you can often see small crowds of people gathered on the sidewalk and waiting idly—some taking a cigarette break—until the shops reopen.

    In today’s Arab world, it’s not religiosity that is mandatory; it’s the appearance of it. Nonreligious attitudes and beliefs are tolerated as long as they’re not conspicuous. As a system, social hypocrisy provides breathing room to secular lifestyles, while preserving the façade of religion. Atheism, per se, is not the problem. Claiming it out loud is. So those who publicize their atheism in the Arab world are fighting less for freedom of conscience than for freedom of speech.H

    When you are a Bear of Very Little Brain, and you Think of Things, you find sometimes that a Thing which seemed very Thingish inside you is quite different when it gets out into the open and has other people looking at it.


    A.A. Milne,

    "We cannot slaughter each other out of the human impasse"
  • Invisible atheists - the spread of disbelief in the Arab world
     Reply #3 - April 25, 2015, 12:53 PM
    I logged back in to share this article with you guys, just to see that it has already been shared.

    A lot of it resonates with me, how about you?
    The future is full of thrilling possibilities.
  • Invisible atheists - the spread of disbelief in the Arab world
     Reply #4 - April 26, 2015, 06:32 AM
    It's a great piece, covers a lot of pertinent info about people leaving Islam in the West and in Muslim-majority countries. I am very happy to see it published in the The New Republic; something I don't think would've happened just 5 years ago. We've all come a long way Afro
    "Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused."
  • Invisible atheists - the spread of disbelief in the Arab world
     Reply #5 - April 26, 2015, 08:29 AM
    And the other category - Muslims who are not actually Muslims, like Orthodox Armenian, who go on haj and grow make and drink wine!

    If your great great x generations back grandparents were forced into conversion, are you actually a Muslim?
    When you are a Bear of Very Little Brain, and you Think of Things, you find sometimes that a Thing which seemed very Thingish inside you is quite different when it gets out into the open and has other people looking at it.


    A.A. Milne,

    "We cannot slaughter each other out of the human impasse"
  • Invisible atheists - the spread of disbelief in the Arab world
     Reply #6 - April 26, 2015, 08:49 AM
    Doubt is spreading throughout the Muslim world.
    No free mixing of the sexes is permitted on these forums or via PM or the various chat groups that are operating.

    Women must write modestly and all men must lower their case.

    http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?425649-Have-some-Hayaa-%28modesty-shame%29-people!
  • Invisible atheists - the spread of disbelief in the Arab world
     Reply #7 - April 27, 2015, 05:58 PM
    Interesting article, thanks for sharing.
  • Invisible atheists - the spread of disbelief in the Arab world
     Reply #8 - August 25, 2016, 06:51 PM
    Ahmed Jedou - Arab atheists scramble for their lives

    http://raseef22.com/en/life/2016/08/17/arab-atheists-scrambling-lives/
    Which side are you on?
  • Invisible atheists - the spread of disbelief in the Arab world
     Reply #9 - August 30, 2016, 10:20 PM
    Who can fart silently while prostrating?
    The unreligion, only one calorie
  • Invisible atheists - the spread of disbelief in the Arab world
     Reply #10 - August 30, 2016, 10:49 PM
    I consider it a talent of mine.
  • Invisible atheists - the spread of disbelief in the Arab world
     Reply #11 - September 02, 2016, 02:59 PM
    I once found anti-Islam pamphlets and artwork in the public washroom/toilets.  One might expect there are no cameras in these rooms so the operators are stealthy.  I did witness one woman being almost attacked by a hijabi nutcase after exiting a stall where some literature had been left.  She claimed she did not want it so she just left it there.  The same feeling I have about free tampons left in those places.  If I do not need it, I don't take it.  Apparently this literature was packed up in plastic and with a coin.  I think most people might take the package and retrieve the prize even if they were not interested. 

    Another time I saw an anti islamic cartoon affixed to the washroom/toilet mirror which I did not really care about.  Because it does not bother me. 

    My feelings about people leaving literature and drawings in the public washrooms/toilets: 
    1). It could be unsanitary.  I have seen religious tracts left in the backs of toilet bowls in the stalls.  I would never pick them up unwrapped but the plastic baggie idea seems good since whatever can be removed and I expect people would wash their hands later. 

    2).  Leaving whatever in public restrooms, in transit wherever just makes more work for people who are employed as cleaners because often these items are thrown on the floor. 

    3).  The person who leaves the stall or transit seat and not interested does not pick it might get attacked by the nutcase coming there after them or actually by some person who really needs to read this literature. 

    4).  I got given some religious tract by a random woman on transit that actually helped me once and I was not angry about it.   

    5).  Some people consider leaving these types of items (pamphlets or posters) as vandalism, littering, insulting islam or other religions. 

    6).  I would encourage people to do this.  Better some good reading material left around to inform or annoy but much more interesting than the "I was Here" scratched into the paint. 
    The unreligion, only one calorie
  • Invisible atheists - the spread of disbelief in the Arab world
     Reply #12 - September 02, 2016, 11:15 PM
    Leaving anti-islamic cartoon in restrooms? Seriously why? Why not just open an anti-dawah booth? There are many that publicly mocks Christianity, so why not Islam?

    Must be sad to be so afraid of saying something that you just have to leave your articles in bathroom stalls. So much censorship in so-called "free country"...

    I agree with Bee that they're just creating more trash where it doesn't belong... who goes to bathrooms to pick up reading materials? nobody...
  • Invisible atheists - the spread of disbelief in the Arab world
     Reply #13 - September 03, 2016, 02:08 PM
    There was one man who would dress up in long robe with a long beard and prayer cap.  He would give out anti islamic literature and make fun of islam all day long.  He got arrested and charged with hate crime.  Happened in Toronto.  Mostly he was just annoying. Also some man got charged with giving out anti islamic literature during the gay pride parade.  He made up a name to register with them officially.  I heard one woman was arrested for reading out the quran in english, the bad parts about killing christians and jews.  She was arrested for hate crime.   Lots happens in Toronto.  An interesting city to visit.  Yonge and dundas square.  There is usually a few tables set up with various religious freaks there with literature. 

    Back to bathroom literature.  The pamphlets were put into little plastic baggies and hung on the door hooks in the stalls.  Women usually hand their handbag or coat on the hook.  All clean and some I saw had a prize in the baggie along with the pamphlet for whoever took it.  That might be a good idea.  However putting a pamphlet in the back of the toilet is just disgusting and I would never take that to even look at. 

    The problem is that most of the anti islamic pamphlets I have seen are very annoying and some are racist.  Some are pushing Christianity as an alternative to Islam.  Honestly there are the worst nonsense ever.  None are "hey I left Islam because of these problems and you can too".  Might be an idea for some people to make up a few downloadable ones and for a few to do some stealth leaving of pamphlets around where muslims frequent.  However people should be careful enough not to get caught with more than one or two because then they could say they found it and were going to look at it later. 
    The unreligion, only one calorie
  • Invisible atheists - the spread of disbelief in the Arab world
     Reply #14 - September 03, 2016, 02:16 PM
    On the subject of germs :-

    Quote
    Study: Public Toilet Is Cleaner Than The Average Cell Phone

    http://www.cleanlink.com/news/article/Study-Public-Toilet-Is-Cleaner-Than-The-Average-Cell-Phone--15844

    The takeaway is that 'hands' carry more germs and they would build up on surfaces like door handles/latches,   The hooks themselves would not be as affected. 

    Notwithstanding that,  I wouldn't pick up any flyer in a toilet either. Smiley
  • Invisible atheists - the spread of disbelief in the Arab world
     Reply #15 - September 03, 2016, 02:56 PM
    So what you're saying is that I should pee on my hands after using my cellphone. Got it.
  • Invisible atheists - the spread of disbelief in the Arab world
     Reply #16 - September 03, 2016, 03:17 PM
    So if there were some anti islam pamphlets that were not terrible, where and how would anyone leave them around?  Give them to friends and family.  I found this "how to leave Islam and not get killed by your family" pamphlet in the transit, what do you think about it?  I just glanced at it but what would anyone who wrote this have in mind?  If your friend or family member goes into a murderous rage and rips it all up and shouts and jumps up and down.  "I will find out who wrote this and KEEL them".  Then you know NOT who to trust with your apostasy. 
    The unreligion, only one calorie
  • Invisible atheists - the spread of disbelief in the Arab world
     Reply #17 - September 03, 2016, 03:27 PM
    Quote from: Absurdist on September 03, 2016, 02:56 PM
    So what you're saying is that I should pee on my hands after using my cellphone. Got it.


    Probably, if you don't mind the odor  Cheesy Cheesy
  • Invisible atheists - the spread of disbelief in the Arab world
     Reply #18 - September 10, 2016, 02:20 AM
    Quote from: Bee
    If your friend or family member goes into a murderous rage and rips it all up and shouts and jumps up and down.  "I will find out who wrote this and KEEL them".  Then you know NOT who to trust with your apostasy.

      Cheesy

    In all seriousness though, I think the idea of leaving that sort literature in a public restroom is an interesting idea. After all, a bathroom stall is one of those rare places where a person can feel completely and totally alone, even when there are others in the restroom. And the fact that they're there means they will have to spend at least a few minutes there, even if they disagree with the graffiti on the walls or, in this case, the anti-Islamic pamphlet. And even if they disagree, even if it makes them angry, they might read something that makes them uncomfortable--plants a seed in their mind that might someday grow into something more.

    Or they'll just ignore it, flush, and go about their day. But at least there's a chance.
  • Invisible atheists - the spread of disbelief in the Arab world
     Reply #19 - September 10, 2016, 10:21 AM
    Quote
    The problem is that most of the anti islamic pamphlets I have seen are very annoying and some are racist.  Some are pushing Christianity as an alternative to Islam.


    That's what happens when racists dominate the argument... urgh........

    Although reading your description it doesn't seem to be "hate crime" at all... How is reading Quran in English a hate crime.........?
  • Invisible atheists - the spread of disbelief in the Arab world
     Reply #20 - September 10, 2016, 12:13 PM
    Merely readingin public  from the quran certain verses can definitely be considered hate literature even when someone knows a person is reading from the quran.  For people who have actually read the quran it is quite obvious. If someone did not know a person was reading from the quran they would likely be outraged anyway. 

    I saw one of theose pamphlets that was almost entirely verses from the quran that are about violence towards nonbelievers either about what the deity wants done to them or what the believers should do to them.  Then some pamphlets were also about some of the details of the profit's life that are not too savoury.  Others were details about the harser punishments of sharia law.  These would be educational for muslims as well as nonmulsims because not too many people even muslims have read the quran translated into a language that they understand well.   The problem is that in the back of these pamphlets are websites and organizations that are very racist.  I am against promoting hate towards muslims.  I hate islam and i yate the quran but i do not muslims.  I see them as victims more often.  So I do not like these websites and organizations. 

    Would it be good for this website to produce it's own pamphlet offering support and information for exmuslims or people who need help? What exactly woukd it have to say to be helpful? 

    Yes.  It is ideal to leave and pick up pamphlets (wrapped in plastic and attached to the door) or a toilet stall because leaving or taking the pamphlets can be done in almost absolute privacy. 
    The unreligion, only one calorie
  • Invisible atheists - the spread of disbelief in the Arab world
     Reply #21 - September 11, 2016, 12:19 AM
    Quote
    Merely readingin public  from the quran certain verses can definitely be considered hate literature even when someone knows a person is reading from the quran.


    Well if reading a book loudly in public is considered a hate speech, maybe it's not the person, it's the book....

    Quote
    The problem is that in the back of these pamphlets are websites and organizations that are very racist.


    They just ruin it for everyone. Every time.

    Maybe take all these pamphlets yourself and put it in the trash? I cringed hard whenever I read jihad-watch or similar websites. Urghhhhhhhhhhhhhh
  • Invisible atheists - the spread of disbelief in the Arab world
     Reply #22 - September 11, 2016, 11:33 AM
    Quote from: Helaine on September 11, 2016, 12:19 AM
    Well if reading a book loudly in public is considered a hate speech, maybe it's not the person, it's the book....

    They just ruin it for everyone. Every time.

    Who ruined the quran?  I see these guys with their dawah tables and they never read the quran to those who they are trying to convert.  They give out their glossy pamphlets.  Once this muslim was trying to tell this other man that blacks should convert because the muslims were the ines who let the slaves go free.  I asked him then why slavery was only abolished in Saudi in 1970's.   Later the man thanked me because he found out they were lying to get converts. 

    Maybe take all these pamphlets yourself and put it in the trash? I cringed hard whenever I read jihad-watch or similar websites. Urghhhhhhhhhhhhhh


    Some of the content of these pamphlets is not so bad but i just do not like the authorship and websites they give.  It might be useful to copy some of the content or at least discus what would be useful information to put in a pamphlet.  So please do a search for anti islam pamphlets and see which ines have content that is anti islam and not anti muslim. 
    The unreligion, only one calorie
  • Invisible atheists - the spread of disbelief in the Arab world
     Reply #23 - September 14, 2016, 01:23 AM
    https://freeatheism.files.wordpress.com/2013/03/hi-im-an-atheist-tri3.pdf
    I like this pro atheism pamphlet.
    The unreligion, only one calorie
  • Invisible atheists - the spread of disbelief in the Arab world
     Reply #24 - September 14, 2016, 02:10 PM
    i just went to an event yesterday it was about the history of doubt in muslim world it was amazing many scholors from history and current times from arab world were persecuted and now a days its spreading alot all over the muslim world syed ul qamni from eqypt is the best critic of islam i see today
  • Invisible atheists - the spread of disbelief in the Arab world
     Reply #25 - September 14, 2016, 02:32 PM
    Quote from: Aftab on September 14, 2016, 02:10 PM
    ......... syed ul qamni from eqypt is the best critic of islam i see today

    Aftab,  please give bit more information on .... syed ul qamni from eqypt ., I never heard of him

    many people are missing in this list.. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_critics_of_Islam

    on that syed ul qamni from eqypt., let me add tubes another Egyptian whois shouting at the world on Islam for a long time..

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g872fwpSqm4

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zkJGD4bMw8o

    that is Hamed Abdel Samad  Born in Egypt moved in to Germany and  now hiding from Islamic heroes of Europe .....
    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim     
  • Invisible atheists - the spread of disbelief in the Arab world
     Reply #26 - September 16, 2016, 11:03 AM
    "During a 2014 appearance on HBO’s “Real Time with Bill Maher,” American author Sam Harris, a pillar of the New Atheism movement, fell into the same essentialist trap when he referred to “Muslims who are nominal Muslims who don’t take the faith seriously.” One can only marvel at the oxymoronic complexity of that sentence. If these people don’t take Islam seriously, why then call them Muslims, “nominal” or not?"

    My Bosnian friend's memorable statements: "I can't wait for Ramadan to finish this weekend because I'm going to get SO DRUNK!... If Bosnia had Shariah law I'd never go back... I wouldn't wear a veil". And yet "I was excited to date him because he was Muslim and was Arab... Islam's purely peaceful... Islam doesn't allow slavery!" Etc. Perfect example of what Sam Harris was referring to.

    The article reminds me of my childhood friend Ahmed: "There's not one single gay Muslim in the whole world. Not one". Really? In this whole world, not even a single one? Are you sure? "Ok, maybe 20".
  • Invisible atheists - the spread of disbelief in the Arab world
     Reply #27 - September 16, 2016, 08:10 PM
    It always seems to come down to who is defining who as a muslims or non-muslim.  What people feel they need to define themselves as is more important for whatever reasons.  Some might identify themselves as atheists privately and as muslims for safety reasons.  Some might call themselves cultural muslims and prefer to just attend religious events with family.  Some might be theists but reject many other beliefs or rituals. 

     Enough with the garbage about everyone is born a muslim because their parents were or that no one can ever leave.  The more people reject that "either or" concept that the less power the fanatics who are killing or ostracizing exmuslims can get away with. 

    But the disbelief in the arab world is being spread how?  In the mosques, the schools and universities, the internet?  It was almost always there. 

    The world does not need this polarization:  the believer house vs the nonbeliever house.  All the stages of genocide built in.   But the invisible atheist is also going to be a victim along with everyone else.  This planet is going no where. 

    The problem is that the believers are slightly more organized than the nonbeliever "muslims" and the believers have the power or believe they do.  Is this a question?  Can I give proof? 
    The unreligion, only one calorie
  • Invisible atheists - the spread of disbelief in the Arab world
     Reply #28 - September 18, 2016, 09:05 PM
    Quote from: Bee on September 14, 2016, 01:23 AM
    https://freeatheism.files.wordpress.com/2013/03/hi-im-an-atheist-tri3.pdf
    I like this pro atheism pamphlet.


    I will try an experiment.  I will print some of these pamphlets and put them around and see it people take them and what is their reaction. 
    The unreligion, only one calorie
  • Invisible atheists - the spread of disbelief in the Arab world
     Reply #29 - October 17, 2016, 10:25 AM
    Saudi students in the US speaking out: http://psuvanguard.com/in-the-shadow-of-the-kingdom/
    Which side are you on?
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