Abdolkarim Soroush: Qur'an Word of Muhammad

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Abdolkarim Soroush: Qur'an Word of Muhammad
OP - April 20, 2015, 02:42 PM

"Muhammad is the creator of the Koran. That is what well-known Iranian reformer Abdolkarim Soroush says in his book The Expansion of the Prophetic Experience...

http://www.drsoroush.com/English/Interviews/E-INT-The%20Word%20of%20Mohammad.html

"Abdolkarim Soroush is a leading Muslim reformist thinker who advocates the reunification of religiosity and secular reasoning in Iran (and, by implication, in the Islamic world). He insists that reason is not Western or Eastern in its nature and that religiousbelievers cannot accurately understand God’s message, or live a dignified socio-political life, while remaining ignorant of reason and its corollaries such as universal human rights and democratic citizenship. This book is an immensely important contribution to contemporary philosophy of religion in Iran in particular and in the Muslim world in general. The translator has done an excellent job in converting the technical text from Persian into English."

http://www.brill.com/expansion-prophetic-experience
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Abdolkarim Soroush: Qur'an Word of Muhammad
Reply #1 - April 20, 2015, 02:44 PM

"According to the traditional account, the Prophet was only an instrument; he merely conveyed a message passed to him by Jibril. In my view, however, the Prophet played a pivotal role in the production of the Koran." Soroush

http://www.drsoroush.com/English/Interviews/E-INT-The%20Word%20of%20Mohammad.html
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Abdolkarim Soroush: Qur'an Word of Muhammad
Reply #2 - April 20, 2015, 02:46 PM

It may seem obvious to us - but getting Muslims to take this on board is another matter.

Having said that, you'd be surprised how many Muslims I've met recently who cite the views of Soroush.
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Abdolkarim Soroush: Qur'an Word of Muhammad
Reply #3 - April 20, 2015, 05:08 PM

Actually scholarship on the issue is going totally oppossed to this, the more we learn about the Quran, the less it seems to have anything to do with Mo in all but a few likely interpolated verses. Of course, an average believing Muslim could never admit this anymore than an average believing Catholic could ever admit that the gospel of John was clearly written by someone who had never met Jesus or anyone who had known him, so this view (Abdolkarim Soroush's) is for for most Muslims a marked step towards religious liberalism.

إطلب العلم ولو في الصين

Es sitzt keine Krone so fest und so hoch,
Der mutige Springer erreicht sie doch.

I don't give a fuck about your war, or your President.
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Abdolkarim Soroush: Qur'an Word of Muhammad
Reply #4 - April 20, 2015, 05:13 PM

Quote from: countjulian on April 20, 2015, 05:08 PM
....................... that the gospel of John was clearly written by someone who had never met Jesus or anyone who had known him,..........................

and without doubt the same goes to Quran .. The writer of Quran never met "Muhammad" alleged Prophet of Islam.. But it is possible that writers of hadith may have met or may have talked to people who met "MUHAMMADS" .. how many of them were there??.. I don't know..

Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything
I renounced my faith to become a kafir,
the beloved betrayed me and turned in to a Muslim
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Abdolkarim Soroush: Qur'an Word of Muhammad
Reply #5 - April 20, 2015, 06:21 PM

Quote from: countjulian on April 20, 2015, 05:08 PM
Of course, an average believing Muslim could never admit this anymore than an average believing Catholic could ever admit that the gospel of John was clearly written by someone who had never met Jesus or anyone who had known him, so this view (Abdolkarim Soroush's) is for for most Muslims a marked step towards religious liberalism.

Precisely!
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Abdolkarim Soroush: Qur'an Word of Muhammad
Reply #6 - April 20, 2015, 07:45 PM

Whether you look at the Qur’an as the product of Muhammad’s own mind as dictated during the span of his lifetime or the product of multiple authors over the infancy of the Arab caliphate, removing it from the sphere of divine speech opens it up to all sorts of scrutiny. Was the message of the Qur’an ultimately a good one for humanity? I suppose it depends on who you ask.
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Abdolkarim Soroush: Qur'an Word of Muhammad
Reply #7 - April 21, 2015, 05:58 PM

Quote from: countjulian on April 20, 2015, 05:08 PM
Actually scholarship on the issue is going totally oppossed to this, the more we learn about the Quran, the less it seems to have anything to do with Mo in all but a few likely interpolated verses.

If this is the case, then how come there's this quote by Patricia Crone, saying that most or all of the Koran was most probably uttered by mo? I don't know much about Koranic scholarship today, but I assume that since Crone is known for being on the revisionist side, such a statement by her would mean that most scholars in the field also hold that view.
Quote
Everything else about Mohammed is more uncertain, but we can still say a fair amount with reasonable assurance. Most importantly, we can be reasonably sure that the Qur'an is a collection of utterances that he made in the belief that they had been revealed to him by God. The book may not preserve all the messages he claimed to have received, and he is not responsible for the arrangement in which we have them. They were collected after his death – how long after is controversial. But that he uttered all or most of them is difficult to doubt.
https://www.opendemocracy.net/faith-europe_islam/mohammed_3866.jsp

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Abdolkarim Soroush: Qur'an Word of Muhammad
Reply #8 - April 21, 2015, 08:14 PM

^That article was written back in 2008^.

If you asked her that again now, I can fairly surely tell you she would be a lot more sanguine about Muhammad vis-a-vis the Quran. The cutting edge of scholarship right now would be represented by Shoemaker's book The Death of a Prophet. Pricey, but I hear you can find the PDF online for free. Highly recommended.

http://www.upenn.edu/pennpress/book/14933.html

إطلب العلم ولو في الصين

Es sitzt keine Krone so fest und so hoch,
Der mutige Springer erreicht sie doch.

I don't give a fuck about your war, or your President.
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Abdolkarim Soroush: Qur'an Word of Muhammad
Reply #9 - April 21, 2015, 11:56 PM

Academia in many subjects can be in a state of flux as new information and conclusions open up the field. The Quran is just one such topic. For centuries research already assumed an authentic stance which is not longer warranted.
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Abdolkarim Soroush: Qur'an Word of Muhammad
Reply #10 - April 22, 2015, 02:16 PM

Quote from: happymurtad on April 20, 2015, 07:45 PM
Whether you look at the Qur’an as the ~~product of Muhammad’s own mind~~ as dictated during the span of ~~his lifetime~~ .....................

No..no...no..nooooo.. "THERE WAS NO MUHAMMAD.... no "his life time""

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Family_tree_of_Muhammad

See all those Ancestors of alleged " Muhammad"... there was NO Muhammad..

There was no name "Muhammad" in Pre- Islamic Arabia.. Muhammad is simply a word with a meaning "Praise Worthy".. that is all what it means .. I could use that word word "Muhmmad" as an adjective for any good man, good woman. good person.... or for a good pet doing good deed

I like this tube ..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LU8DDYz68kM

I see .. "Muhammad" in that tube.. I see "Godliness" in that tube .. I see Praise worthy living thing in that tube.. happened to be a buffalo instead of a person..

The list of rascals Rascals you see below created "their own Muhammad" way after alleged death of a good man ....may be a simple preacher

Created that "Islamic Muhammad".. they created their own Islamic Muhammads..

I can see many Muhammads in day to day life.. I see many many "Muhammad" in these tubes..

Quote
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yQyW6hg4_6k

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nqlgFpdaI5Y

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=23NZ1OW5DTY

Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything
I renounced my faith to become a kafir,
the beloved betrayed me and turned in to a Muslim
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