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Theme Changer

 Topic: 1492 and Islam

 (Read 1798 times)
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  • 1492 and Islam
     OP - April 18, 2015, 03:47 PM

    What effects did the discovery of the Americas have on Islam? 

    Two whole continents with peoples who had never heard of Allah, and chocolate, must have had effects on theology!

    Arguably it helped make Islamic slave traders wealthier, but what happened to the beliefs?

    When you are a Bear of Very Little Brain, and you Think of Things, you find sometimes that a Thing which seemed very Thingish inside you is quite different when it gets out into the open and has other people looking at it.


    A.A. Milne,

    "We cannot slaughter each other out of the human impasse"
  • 1492 and Islam
     Reply #1 - April 18, 2015, 03:58 PM

    Why would it effect islam?

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • 1492 and Islam
     Reply #2 - April 18, 2015, 04:10 PM

    Quod Sum Eris: the effect on mediaeval Christian thought was immense. To the Christians: Asia, Africa and Europe were considered the three parts of the world, arranged around Judaea (Sinai to Jerusalem). The Bible had also taught them the genealogies of every people of the world, again in a triad: Shem, Ham and Japhet.

    Christianity, especially the highly trinitarian Catholic Christianity, had to explain why there was a fourth part of the world. At first they theorised that this was a further India. Later they came up with notions that these were lost tribes of Jews. (They did, at least, correctly note that the New World humans did not develop there independently.)

    Islam had taken on a lot of this Biblical worldview. So I guess the question here is, what effect did "the fourth part of the world" have on Muslim thought? I don't know either . . .
  • 1492 and Islam
     Reply #3 - April 18, 2015, 05:23 PM

    As any fule (and Mo Ansar) know, Muslims discovered the Americas five whole centuries before 1492.
  • 1492 and Islam
     Reply #4 - April 18, 2015, 10:47 PM

    The existence of America, as proposed by Biruni in the eleventh century.
  • 1492 and Islam
     Reply #5 - April 18, 2015, 11:02 PM

    It doesn't really answer the question and I've no idea how accurate this is but according to Bernard Lewis
    Quote
    In the lands of Islam remarkably little was known about America. At first the voyages of discovery aroused some interest; the only surviving copy of Columbus's own map of America is a Turkish translation and adaptation, still preserved in the Topkapi Palace Museum, in Istanbul. A sixteenth-century Turkish geographer's account of the discovery of the New World, titled The History of Western India, was one of the first books printed in Turkey. But thereafter interest seems to have waned, and not much is said about America in Turkish, Arabic, or other Muslim languages until a relatively late date. A Moroccan ambassador who was in Spain at the time wrote what must surely be the first Arabic account of the American Revolution. The Sultan of Morocco signed a treaty of peace and friendship with the United States in 1787, and thereafter the new republic had a number of dealings, some friendly, some hostile, most commercial, with other Muslim states. These seem to have had little impact on either side. The American Revolution and the American republic to which it gave birth long remained unnoticed and unknown. Even the small but growing American presence in Muslim lands in the nineteenth century -- merchants, consuls, missionaries, and teachers -- aroused little or no curiosity, and is almost unmentioned in the Muslim literature and newspapers of the time.

    The discovery of America was in a sense an unintended consequence of a military, economic and religious conflict, with Portugal and Spain on the one side and Muslims on the other, that had lasted through most of the fifteenth century. 1492 was also the year when the Spanish expelled the Jews and conquered Muslim Granada. At the time all this would presumably have seemed far more important than the discoveries. Barnaby Rogerson covers this in The Last Crusaders. Review here.


  • 1492 and Islam
     Reply #6 - April 19, 2015, 08:10 AM

    Quote
    Take up the White Man's burden -
    And reap his old reward,
    The blame of those ye better,
    The hate of those ye guard -
    The cry of hosts ye humour
    (Ah slowly !) towards the light:-
    "Why brought ye us from bondage,
    "Our loved Egyptian night ?"


    http://www.kiplingsociety.co.uk/poems_burden.htm
    So this is describing the reality?


    When you are a Bear of Very Little Brain, and you Think of Things, you find sometimes that a Thing which seemed very Thingish inside you is quite different when it gets out into the open and has other people looking at it.


    A.A. Milne,

    "We cannot slaughter each other out of the human impasse"
  • 1492 and Islam
     Reply #7 - April 19, 2015, 08:23 AM

    Quote
    Persia fell under a type of Islam - Shia - that is so different as almost to constitute a different religion. In the early 16th century, in pursuit of religious uniformity, the Ottomans not only fought their own wars of religion against the Persians, but also started persecuting their own Shia, now called Alevis. The Alevis practise an Islam that is almost unrecognisable, in that women are equal and drink is drunk.


    From review above


    When you are a Bear of Very Little Brain, and you Think of Things, you find sometimes that a Thing which seemed very Thingish inside you is quite different when it gets out into the open and has other people looking at it.


    A.A. Milne,

    "We cannot slaughter each other out of the human impasse"
  • 1492 and Islam
     Reply #8 - April 19, 2015, 10:58 AM

    I can't actually find any information about early arab trade ever being established in the Americas, well except the slave trade, would have thought that they'd have scrambled to get there.
  • 1492 and Islam
     Reply #9 - April 19, 2015, 05:12 PM

    Is there a technological issue?  Arab traders were fine for coastal work but oceans were beyond their capability

    When you are a Bear of Very Little Brain, and you Think of Things, you find sometimes that a Thing which seemed very Thingish inside you is quite different when it gets out into the open and has other people looking at it.


    A.A. Milne,

    "We cannot slaughter each other out of the human impasse"
  • 1492 and Islam
     Reply #10 - April 19, 2015, 06:21 PM

    Yes, that's why i said there is no evidence..
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