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Theme Changer

 Topic: The sex, the booze, the porc.

 (Read 2633 times)
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  • The sex, the booze, the porc.
     OP - March 10, 2015, 03:06 PM

    I was wondering did you guys found it easy to get over the inhibition caused by your islamic up-bringing when it comes to those three. Like i still feel really incredibly guilty about eating non-halal meat, Porc? never even touched it and worst of all sex >.<
    It's just that the feelings of guilt and shame is haunting me and it's overwhelming especially when it comes to sex
    I was just curious did you go through the same? how did you guys cope with "islamic guilt" if you ever faced it?

    I left islam recently maybe it'll get easier with time i don't know :(
  • The sex, the booze, the porc.
     Reply #1 - March 10, 2015, 03:33 PM



    I left islam recently maybe it'll get easier with time i don't know :

    Hello Deserter.... I would NOT call you as Deserter but enlightened..  well informed.... awarer....... advanced,  liberal, open-minded, broad-minded, educated, knowledgeable based Rational human ..ec..etc.,  So welcome to CEMB

    And Why did you leave Islam and what good reason you have to leave Islam dear Deserter??

    Quote
    I was wondering did you guys found it easy to get over the inhibition caused by your islamic up-bringing when it comes to those three. Like i still feel really incredibly guilty about eating non-halal meat, Porc? never even touched it and worst of all sex >.<
    It's just that the feelings of guilt and shame is haunting me and it's overwhelming especially when it comes to sex
    I was just curious did you go through the same? how did you guys cope with "islamic guilt" if you ever faced it?


    The sex, the booze, the porc.... PORK...KKK...   love..hate.. force.. feelings.. rowdyism....

    Hmmm good questons.. good points.. I am often seeing Thorium in the forum.. Indeed Thorium  is the future ..

    well let us think.,      Life.. death.. guilty feelings.,   Golden Rule..   let us think about them deserter

    with best wishes
    yeezevee

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • The sex, the booze, the porc.
     Reply #2 - March 10, 2015, 04:24 PM

    Hi Deserter Smiley

    I see you have already met yeezevee. You will get used to him.

    Yeezevee, please don' scare the newcomers. Stay classy cool2

    You are are new here, Deserter. Welcome Smiley Please feel invited to make an introduction in the Introductions board.

    I left islam recently maybe it'll get easier with time i don't know :(


    Ruffle through the old threads here. Anecdotal evidence overwhelmingly shows it does get better.

    Some threads I quickly found for you to peruse at your discretion until advices arrive from other Ex-Musilms (I was never a Muslim - ended up here by accident):
    Offical CEMB post: The Day I First Tasted Bacon
    Is Islam out of your system?
    Do ex-muslims eat pork eventually?
    My first pork
    Have you tried pork yet?
    Have you eaten pork / had alcohol since you became an ex-muslim?

    Danish Never-Moose adopted by the kind people on the CEMB-forum
    Ex-Muslim chat (Unaffliated with CEMB). Safari users: Use "#ex-muslims" as the channel name. CEMB chat thread.
  • The sex, the booze, the porc.
     Reply #3 - March 10, 2015, 04:34 PM

    Just because you left islam doesn't mean you have to go full blown kafir, having zina and drinking booze and all. Do whatever makes you comfortable.

    "we stand firm calling to allah all the time,
    we let them know - bang! bang! - coz it's dawah time!"
  • The sex, the booze, the porc.
     Reply #4 - March 10, 2015, 06:10 PM

    There's nothing wrong with sex if it's two consensual adults. Pork is one of the most varied and traditional foods all over the world. Alcohol is fine in moderation. But keep in mind, there's no rule that says ex-muslims have to do any of this.

    Do your own thing and take it one day at a time. Allow yourself to explore your own wants and personality. Don't force yourself to indulge in any of the above. Try it if you want to. If you don't, don't.

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • The sex, the booze, the porc.
     Reply #5 - March 10, 2015, 06:25 PM

    Certain things might take time and need for you to deal with your own issues (for example, why feel sex is shameful etc). You've been brought up in a certain way, no person changes over night. I was born a non-Muslim but hadn't eaten pork since the age of 14. It took me almost a year and a half before I could make myself to eat pork, it took me even some time to even accept non-halal food.

    BTW weird that pork is so stigmatized. I didn't really have any issues with drinking or having sex, most apostates and even non practicing "Muslims" can both drink and date. But pork was really hard to deal with...

    "The healthiest people I know are those who are the first to label themselves fucked up." - three
  • The sex, the booze, the porc.
     Reply #6 - March 10, 2015, 06:29 PM

    Yeah the pork thing is weird. Pig is one of the most appetizing and useful animals there are.

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • The sex, the booze, the porc.
     Reply #7 - March 10, 2015, 06:31 PM

    All religions have a tendency to feature some dietary injunction or prohibition, whether it is the now lapsed Catholic injunction to eat fish on Fridays, or the adoration by Hindus of the cow as a consecrated and invulnerable animal (the government of India even offered to import and protect all the cattle facing slaughter as a result of the bovine encephalitic, or "mad cow," plague that swept Europe in the 1990s), or the refusal by some other Eastern cults to consume any animal flesh, or to injure any other creature be it rat or flea. But the oldest and most tenacious of all fetishes is the hatred and even fear of the pig. It emerged in primitive Judaea, and was for centuries one of the ways—the other being circumcision—by which Jews could be distinguished.

    Even though sura 5.60 of the Koran condemns particularly Jews but also other unbelievers as having been turned into pigs and monkeys—a very intense theme in recent Salafist Muslim preaching— and the Koran describes the flesh of swine as unclean or even "abominable," Muslims appear to see nothing ironic in the adoption of this uniquely Jewish taboo. Real horror of the porcine is manifest all over the Islamic world. One good instance would be the continued prohibition of George Orwell's Animal Farm, one of the most charming and useful fables of modern times, of the reading of which Muslim schoolchildren are deprived. I have perused some of the solemn prohibition orders written by Arab education ministries, which are so stupid that they fail to notice the evil and dictatorial role played by the pigs in the story itself.

    Orwell actually did dislike pigs, as a consequence of his failure as a small farmer, and this revulsion is shared by many adults who have had to work with these difficult animals in agricultural conditions. Crammed together in sties, pigs tend to act swinishly, as it were, and to have noisy and nasty fights. It is not unknown for them to eat their own young and even their own excrement, while their tendency to random and loose gallantry is often painful to the more fastidious eye. But it has often been noticed that pigs left to their own devices, and granted sufficient space, will keep themselves very clean, arrange little bowers, bring up families, and engage in social interaction with other pigs. The creatures also display many signs of intelligence, and it has been calculated that the crucial ratio—between brain weight and body weight—is almost as high with them as it is in dolphins. There is great adaptability between the pig and its environment, as witness wild boars and "feral pigs" as opposed to the placid porkers and frisky piglets of our more immediate experience. But the cloven hoof, or trotter, became a sign of diabolism to the fearful, and I daresay that it is easy to surmise which came first—the devil or the pig. It would be merely boring and idiotic to wonder how the designer of all things conceived such a versatile creature and then commanded his higher-mammal creation to avoid it altogether or risk his eternal displeasure. But many otherwise intelligent mammals affect the belief that heaven hates ham..

    I hope that you have guessed by now what we know in any case— that this fine beast is one of our fairly close cousins. It shares a great deal of our DNA, and there have lately been welcome transplants of skin, heart valves, and kidneys from pigs to humans. If—which I heartily trust does not happen—a new Dr Moreau could corrupt recent advances in cloning and create a hybrid, a "pig-man" is widely feared as the most probable outcome. Meanwhile, almost everything about the pig is useful, from its nutritious and delicious meat to its tanned hide for leather and its bristles for brushes. In Upton Sinclair's graphic novel of the Chicago slaughterhouse, The Jungle, it is agonizing to read about the way that pigs are borne aloft on hooks, screaming as their throats are cut. Even the strongest nerves of the most hardened workers are shaken by the experience. There is something about that shriek . ..

    To press this a little further, one may note that children if left unmolested by rabbis and imams are very drawn to pigs, especially to baby ones, and that fire-fighters in general do not like to eat roast pork or crackling. The barbaric vernacular word for roasted human in New Guinea and elsewhere was "long pig": I have never had the relevant degustatative experience myself, but it seems that we do, if eaten, taste very much like pigs.

    This helps to make nonsense of the usual "secular" explanations of the original Jewish prohibition. It is argued that the ban was initially rational, since pig meat in hot climates can become rank and develop the worms of trichinosis. This objection—which perhaps does apply in the case of non-kosher shellfish—is absurd when applied to the actual conditions. First, trichinosis is found in all climates, and in fact occurs more in cold than in hot ones. Second, ancient Jewish settlements in the land of Canaan can easily be distinguished by archaeologists by the absence of pig bones in their rubbish tips, as opposed to the presence of such bones in the middens of other communities. The non-Jews did not sicken and die from eating pork, in other words. (Quite apart from anything else, if they had died for this reason there would have been no need for the god of Moses to urge their slaughter by non-pig-eaters.)

    There must therefore be another answer to the conundrum. I claim my own solution as original, though without the help of Sir James Frazer and the great Ibn Warraq I might not have hit upon it. According to many ancient authorities, the attitude of early Semites to swine was one of reverence as much as disgust. The eating of pig flesh was considered as something special, even privileged and ritualistic. (This mad confusion between the sacred and the profane is found in all faiths at all times.) The simultaneous attraction and repulsion derived from an anthropomorphic root: the look of the pig, and the taste of the pig, and the dying yells of the pig, and the evident intelligence of the pig, were too uncomfortably reminiscent of the human.

    Porcophobia—and porcophilia—thus probably originate in a night-time of human sacrifice and even cannibalism at which the "holy" texts often do more than hint. Nothing optional—from homosexuality to adultery—is ever made punishable unless those who do the prohibiting (and exact the fierce punishments) have a repressed desire to participate. As Shakespeare put it in King Lear, the policeman who lashes the whore has a hot need to use her for the very offense for which he plies the lash.

    Porcophilia can also be used for oppressive and repressive purposes. In medieval Spain, where Jews and Muslims were compelled on pain of death and torture to convert to Christianity, the religious authorities quite rightly suspected that many of the conversions were not sincere. Indeed, the Inquisition arose partly from the holy dread that secret infidels were attending Mass—where of course, and even more disgustingly, they were pretending to eat human flesh and drink human blood, in the person of Christ himself. Among the customs that arose in consequence was the offering, at most events formal and informal, of a plate of charcuterie. Those who have been fortunate enough to visit Spain, or any good Spanish restaurant, will be familiar with the gesture of hospitality: literally dozens of pieces of differently cured, differently sliced pig. But the grim origin of this lies in a constant effort to sniff out heresy, and to be unsmilingly watchful for giveaway expressions of distaste. In the hands of eager Christian fanatics, even the toothsome Jamon Iberico could be pressed into service as a form of torture.

    Today, ancient stupidity is upon us again. Muslim zealots in Europe are demanding that the Three Little Pigs, and Miss Piggy, Winnie-the-Pooh's Piglet, and other traditional pets and characters be removed from the innocent gaze of their children. The mirthless cretins of jihad have probably not read enough to know of the Empress of Blandings, and of the Earl of Emsworth's infinitely renewable delight in the splendid pages of the incomparable author Mr Whiffle, The Care of the Pig, but there will be trouble when they get that far. An old statue of a wild boar, in an arboretum in Middle England, has already been threatened with mindless Islamic vandalism.

    In microcosm, this apparently trivial fetish shows how religion and faith and superstition distort our whole picture of the world. The pig is so close to us, and has been so handy to us in so many respects, that a strong case is now made by humanists that it should not be factory-farmed, confined, separated from its young, and forced to live in its own ordure. All other considerations to one side, the resulting pink and spongy meat is somewhat rebarbative. But this is a decision that we can make in the plain light of reason and compassion, as extended to fellow creatures and relatives, and not as a result of incantations from Iron Age campfires where much worse offenses were celebrated in the name of god. "Pig's head on a stick," says the nervous but stout-hearted Ralph in the face of the buzzing, suppurating idol (first killed and then worshipped) that has been set up by cruel, frightened schoolboys in Lord of the Flies. "Pig's head on a stick." And he was more right than he could have known, and much wiser than his elders as well as his delinquent juniors.


    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • The sex, the booze, the porc.
     Reply #8 - March 12, 2015, 02:11 PM

    Thanks guys Smiley especially nikolaj those links were pretty useful
  • The sex, the booze, the porc.
     Reply #9 - March 15, 2015, 07:41 PM

    I had no guilt issues at all with the booze and the pork. The only thing I still have a problem with, is making sure nobody finds out about my drinking. Whether it is somebody seeing me or noticing the smell of it when I come home or whatever.

    I haven't had sex yet so I don't know how that will be. However, I'm pretty sure that if I'm ashamed or feel weird about it, it would be more because of my inexperience and my insecurities than anything else. 

    The future is full of thrilling possibilities.
  • The sex, the booze, the porc.
     Reply #10 - March 17, 2015, 10:15 PM

    I had no guilt with either, although find pork weird- I don`t like the taste of it.

    But the first time I got drunk my friends remind I was so drunk I spent the night telling a tree he`s a ****** kaffir and is bound for hell forever  Cheesy

    "the question is" said Humpty Dumpty, "which is to be the master- that`s all."
    Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking- Glass.
  • The sex, the booze, the porc.
     Reply #11 - March 17, 2015, 10:41 PM

    I still avoid to eat pork. I don't know why. I can eat it if I have almost no choice, but not if I can find any other meat.

    Eating non-helal food and drinking was never a problem for me.

    I also have a similar problem:
    http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=28156.0
  • The sex, the booze, the porc.
     Reply #12 - March 18, 2015, 02:51 AM

    Why Ex-Muslims Pig Out

    http://www.psmag.com/books-and-culture/mmm-bacon-the-ritual-function-of-a-dietary-transgression

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • The sex, the booze, the porc.
     Reply #13 - March 31, 2015, 07:05 AM

    Hi, Deserter.

    I've never been a religious person, but even though I'm not coming from ex-Muslim experience, maybe something I have to say might still be helpful.

    What's already been said about taking your time and not forcing yourself to do anything you aren't ready for - I absolutely agree with that. 

    I'm not religious, but I'm not much of a drinker.  I easily get tipsy on a very little bit of alcohol, and I'm not that fond of being tipsy.  Once in a while it's kind of fun.  But it's not my favourite thing.  If you want to drink, take it easy, don't drive after drinking, be reasonably sensible, don't drink with total idiots.  It'll be alright.

    Pork - deeeelicious!   grin12 piggy grin12 

    Sex - a very personal thing, and it can be emotionally complicated, and can have unwanted consequences if it's not handled wisely.  It's a pretty good idea not to just jump into it if you're inexperienced and before you know what you really want from a sexual/love relationship. 

    Sex is such an intimate human relationship, with all the complications that can come with that.  And different people want different things from it, need different levels of closeness and fidelity.  Two people who don't match up in that respect can wind up in a painful and ugly mess.  It's best to approach sex knowing yourself well, knowing what you want out of the relationship, and being honest with yourself and your partner.   

    Honesty and *clear communication* are key to not making a mess of your sex life.

    If you're a virgin, if you're inexperienced even with just dating the opposite sex, then I think it's an extra good idea to take it slow.  If you're already in a relationship or having casual sex and it's good, you're taking precautions, everything's honest, and you're happy except for the "Islamic guilt", time should eventually erode those guilt feelings.

    However, there's also such a thing as "rational guilt" connected to sex, when one hasn't been honest with oneself or one's partner, has ignored facts and taken risks one isn't prepared to deal with responsibly, etc.  Sex can be a great source of happiness and an expression of supreme joy in being alive, but it can also be the source of a real fucking mess if you jump into it blindly.
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