Jordan's Official Fatwa Department Confirms Death Penalty for Apostates

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Jordan's Official Fatwa Department Confirms Death Penalty for Apostates
OP - March 01, 2015, 05:27 PM

From some guy on reddit:

Quote
So the official Fatwa in my beloved country is to kill me.. lovely.

Personally, I blame America, Iran and Israel as I'm 100% sure religion has nothing to do with it.. as usual.

Religion has nothing to do with anything really, except the good things, all the good things come from religion.

Link to the official Fatwa in Arabic.

PullusPardus - known anti-Muslim Arab reddit troll but nonetheless I often find his comments hilarious - wrote this "translation":

Quote
وذلك في قوله عليه الصلاة والسلام: (مَنْ بَدَّلَ دِينَهُ فَاقْتُلُوهُ) رواه البخاري.

"If you're having kafir problems I won't feel bad for you scum, Allah got 99 naming problems and a kafir ain't one, praise me"

EDIT: The fatwa is from 2010

Morocco's Ulema Council did the same in 2013. However the death for apostasy is not written into the legislation in either country. AFAIR for Morocco it is maximum 2 years of prison time and a lot of heat?

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Jordan's Official Fatwa Department Confirms Death Penalty for Apostates
Reply #1 - March 01, 2015, 06:04 PM

This is why I made this thread, though not many voted.
http://www.councilofexmuslims.com/index.php?topic=28313.0;viewResults
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Jordan's Official Fatwa Department Confirms Death Penalty for Apostates
Reply #2 - March 01, 2015, 09:44 PM

I know some openly atheist/non-religious Jordanians, Egyptians and Moroccans. Like many of the more (comparatively) liberal Arab countries such laws are in reality very rarely enforced.

The problem is more about freedom of expression.

So long as you don't make too much of a song and dance about being an atheist - no-one will trouble you. But if you want to publicly express your views through whatever media - that's when you run into problems.

Even this is not done because the regimes themselves are religious or actually care about Shari'ah themselves (none of the leaders of countries like, Jordan, Egypt, Morocco etc... actually want Shari'ah with all its bells & whistles, enforced), but it is done to appease the sentiments of the religious sections of their populations. (i.e. so the regimes can't be accused of being "un-Islamic" - wa 'aoothubillah!!)
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Jordan's Official Fatwa Department Confirms Death Penalty for Apostates
Reply #3 - March 01, 2015, 10:18 PM

Someone posted this nugget on the reddit discussion:

Quote
We all know the run of the mill Muslim scholar employed by a state is going to copy and paste fatwas. They aren't going to do any ijtihad or deviate from the jumhur opinion on apostasy. So, who cares if some random mufti in Jordan wrote a fatwa? Come on, the fatwa on this website is the most unimaginative fatwa I've ever read.

First...Dar al-Iftaa (or any other religious authority) has no authority over criminal law or punishments. So, you don't have to fear the death penalty. Insult of Islam is punished under Jordanian law, however, and is punishable by a jail term of 1-3 years. Is that really such a surprise? Jordanian law states:

المادة 273 من ثبتت جرأته على إطالة اللسان علناً على أرباب الشرائع من الأنبياء يحبس من سنة الى ثلاث سنوات

المادة 278 يعاقب بالحبس مدة لا تزيد على ثلاثة أشهر او بغرامة لا تزيد على عشرين ديناراً كل من 1- نشر شيئاً مطبوعاً او مخطوطاً او صورة او رسماً او رمزاً من شأنه أن يؤدي الى إهانة الشعور الديني لأشخاص آخرين او الى إهانة معتقدهم الديني ، او 2- تفوه في مكان عام وعلى مسمع من شخص آخر بكلمة او بصوت من شأنه ان يؤدي الى إهانة الشعور او المعتقد الديني لذلك الشخص الآخر

Second...Dar al-Iftaa DOES have authority over family law in Jordan. Meaning, if you come out as an apostate, an Islamic judge can separate you from your Muslim spouse, and void your inheritance from family (because of the rule that a "kafir" does not inherit from a Muslim under Sunni fiqh, which is based on a hadith).

ACTUALLY, this is the much more perverse thing that happens to apostates in Jordan. NONE OF THEM GO TO JAIL, MUCH LESS ARE KILLED. So please don't bring attention to the wrong issues. The REAL CRIME is that a fucking mufti can automatically dissolve your marriage, and any financial ties between you and your family. Also, if you HAVE INHERITED ANY PROPERTY IN THE PAST FROM A MUSLIM, THEY CAN SEIZE YOUR PROPERTY. Meaning, if you live in a house that used to be your parents', you can become homeless.

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Jordan's Official Fatwa Department Confirms Death Penalty for Apostates
Reply #4 - March 01, 2015, 10:42 PM

He's right. Such things do become an issue when it relates to a husband or wife and/or children.
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Jordan's Official Fatwa Department Confirms Death Penalty for Apostates
Reply #5 - March 01, 2015, 10:44 PM

Apart from family law - the issue of apostasy only becomes an issue if someone makes something public and then is accused of defaming Islam.

What you do/believe in private is generally not a problem.
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Jordan's Official Fatwa Department Confirms Death Penalty for Apostates
Reply #6 - March 01, 2015, 10:49 PM

The thing I find interesting about the original Fatwa - which is given as a question & answer - is the question itself.

The questioner appears to be a believing Muslim who takes the opinion that apostasy is not a capital offence in Islam and cites verses of the Qur'an which gives no explicit punishment for apostasy and so appear to be at odds with the hadith - and so he is saying we should follow quran not hadith.

The Mufti after giving his fatwa - then tells the questioner off saying don't try to be devious and cause a conflict between quran and hadith - they all agree perfectly because they come from the same source.
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Reply #7 - March 01, 2015, 10:57 PM

Here's an old Fatwa from al-Azhar from 1978 - again it only came to the attention of al-Azhar due to the family circumstances of the case. Note what the ruling is for the kiddies of the marriage!!

In the name of Allah Most Gracious Most Merciful

Al-Azhar

Fatwa Committee

A question from Mr. Ahmed Darwish who presented the question through Mr. (blanked out) of German nationality:

A Muslim man of Egyptian nationality married a Christian woman of German nationality. The two spouses agreed that the aforementioned Muslim man would enter the Christian religion and join the Christian creed.

1. What is the ruling of Islam regarding this person’s situation?
2. Are his children considered Muslims or Christians and what is their ruling?

The Answer:

All praises are due to Allah, lord of all the worlds. And peace and blessings be upon the greatest of all messengers, our master Muhammad and upon his family and companions all together. As for what follows:

We inform that he has apostatised after having been in a state of Islam, so he should be asked to repent. If he does not repent, he should be killed according to the sharia.

As for his children, so long as they are small they are Muslims. After they have attained maturity, if they remain in Islam then they are Muslims. If they leave it, then they should be asked to repent. If they do not repent, they should be killed. And Allah knows best.

President of the Fatwa Committee of Al-Azhar

Seal of the Committee

September 23, 1978
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Jordan's Official Fatwa Department Confirms Death Penalty for Apostates
Reply #8 - March 01, 2015, 11:12 PM

Quote from: Hassan on March 01, 2015, 10:57 PM
Here's an old Fatwa from al-Azhar from 1978 - again it only came to the attention of al-Azhar due to the family circumstances of the case. Note what the ruling is for the kiddies of the marriage!!

(Clicky for piccy!)

In the name of Allah Most Gracious Most Merciful

Al-Azhar

Fatwa Committee

A question from Mr. Ahmed Darwish who presented the question through Mr. (blanked out) of German nationality:

A Muslim man of Egyptian nationality married a Christian woman of German nationality. The two spouses agreed that the aforementioned Muslim man would enter the Christian religion and join the Christian creed.

1.   What is the ruling of Islam regarding this person’s situation?
2.   Are his children considered Muslims or Christians and what is their ruling?

The Answer:

All praises are due to Allah, lord of all the worlds. And peace and blessings be upon the greatest of all messengers, our master Muhammad and  upon his family and companions all together. As for what follows:

We inform that he has apostatised after having been in a state of Islam, so he should be asked to repent. If he does not repent, he should be killed according to the sharia.

As for his children, so long as they are small they are Muslims. After they have attained maturity, if they remain in Islam then they are Muslims. If they leave it, then they should be asked to repent. If they do not repent, they should be killed. And Allah knows best.

President of the Fatwa Committee of Al-Azhar

Seal of the Committee

September 23, 1978

That is horrible!! What is wrong with these people!??

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Jordan's Official Fatwa Department Confirms Death Penalty for Apostates
Reply #9 - March 01, 2015, 11:22 PM

Islam? :S

However point this example out and you will very fast learn that 1) you're an Islamophobe and 2) Islam has nothing to do with Islam and 3) 2:256 and that abrogation is something invented by people like you to smear the beautiful religion of Islam.

Al-Azhar has also flip-flopped quite a bit on FGM. A few decades back it used to be obligatory. Now it is completely forbidden.

And Islam is true, one and eternal.

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Jordan's Official Fatwa Department Confirms Death Penalty for Apostates
Reply #10 - March 01, 2015, 11:31 PM

Quote from: Nikolaj on March 01, 2015, 11:22 PM
Islam? :S

However point this example out and you will very fast learn that 1) you're an Islamophobe and 2) Islam has nothing to do with Islam and 3) 2:256 and that abrogation is something invented by people like you to smear the beautiful religion of Islam.

Al-Azhar has also flip-flopped quite a bit on FGM. A few decades back it used to be obligatory. Now it is completely forbidden.

And Islam is true, one and eternal.

Allah hu snackbar!
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