Legalized Anti-Semitism

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OP - February 28, 2015, 03:28 PM

I can't even...what the fuck?

German Court Rules Synagogue Firebombing an ‘Act of Protest’

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After three men firebombed a German synagogue, a judge let them off with just arson charges because they intended to ‘bring attention to the Gaza conflict.’ That ruling is as wrong as it is dangerous.

Imagine the following scenario.

A group of skinheads torch a black church somewhere in the Deep South. Upon being apprehended by the police, they cite the injustices that Zimbabwean dictator Robert Mugabe has visited upon the white farmers of his country as justification for their arson. Mugabe is black, he rules on behalf of “the black race,” and therefore black people everywhere must be made to feel responsible for his crimes.

Anyone making such a ridiculous argument would rightly be labeled a racist. But change the victims from black people to Jews, and the perpetrators from pale neo-Nazis to dark-skinned Muslims, and a great many people will claim that what is obviously a crime motivated by blatant bigotry is in fact a politically-inspired protest.

Included in these enlightened ranks we can now add a German jurist from the city of Wuppertal. Last week, the judge convicted two German-Palestinian men of attempted serious arson against a synagogue in the city, along with a juvenile accomplice. But in his ruling, the wise man of the law declared that the crime was motivated not by anti-Semitism, but instead by a desire to “bring attention to the Gaza conflict.”

The torching occurred on July 29, in the midst of Israel’s Operation Protective Edge, a 50-day armed conflict waged in response to Hamas rocket attacks. A few days before the firebombing, “Free Palestine” had been scrawled on the synagogue walls.

This was not the first time, of course, that people had tried to burn down the synagogue in Wuppertal. It was destroyed during the Kristallnacht pogrom of 1938. According to the logic of the judge, the Jews of yesteryear must have had it coming, too. Perhaps if so many of them had not tried to stab Germany in the back during the First World War, the brown shirts would not have felt the need to ransack their shops and raze their houses of worship to the ground.

Never mind the question of why Jews in Germany should have to suffer for the supposed sins of a government half a world away. In a liberal democracy, there are many ways one can “bring attention” to pressing issues elsewhere in the world. One can write newspaper articles. One can petition elected officials. One can hold public demonstrations. One cannot, however, commit acts of violence.

When one does commit an act of violence, it is incumbent upon responsible members of society to call it out for what it is.

The torching of a synagogue is anti-Semitism, plain and simple. To call it anything else is moral cowardice.

More than that, to deny that it is anti-Semitism is to capitulate to the anti-Semites and be complicit in their anti-Semitism, just as to deny that the racist motives of a black man’s lynching would make one complicit in racism. Had the perpetrators wanted to make their point about Israel untainted by anti-Semitism, they could have easily done so by torching the Israeli embassy. It would have still been unlawful and unreasonable, but not necessarily anti-Semitic. But attacking a Jewish house of worship crosses the line from political protest to unambiguous bigotry.

This distinction should be obvious. Yet across the European continent, it is a commonly held opinion that when Muslims commit hate crimes against Jews, they are merely expressing legitimate frustrations regarding the Israeli-Arab conflict.

Take, for instance, BBC presenter Tim Willcox’s interview last month, in the aftermath of the slaughter at Charlie Hebdo and the Hyper Cacher Kosher supermarket, with a shell-shocked Jewish Parisian daughter of Holocaust survivors. Asking the woman what it was like to live as a Jew in a country where four Jews had just been murdered simply because they were Jews and where the number of Jews immigrating to Israel had doubled in the past year, the woman replied that, “the situation is going back to the days of the 1930s in Europe.” To this, Willcox slyly suggested that the Jews deserved what they were getting because of Israel’s policies towards the Palestinians. “Many critics, though, of Israel’s policy would suggest that the Palestinians suffer hugely at Jewish hands as well” he said.

Not only does this faulty logic—if one can even call it that—excuse anti-Semitism. It patronizes Muslims. By holding them to a double standard, excusing away violent hate crimes as just immoderate forms of political expression, we treat them as children. We render them helpless to express their grievances like the rest of humanity via civilized means, capable only of “acting out” in the form of suicide bombing and other violent methods.

To call this mode of thinking a form of moral confusion would be too gentle. Just like explaining away the firebombing of a house of worship, it is sinister excuse making for murderous bigotry.

`But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
`Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.'
`How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
`You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
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Reply #1 - February 28, 2015, 04:38 PM

WTF Germany.... Again! Poland better watch out
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Reply #2 - February 28, 2015, 05:50 PM

These double standards piss me off. If Israel is the reason that Jews in Europe are allowed to be attacked, then we have loads of reasons to attack random muslims in the street. However, that is considered a hate crime and rightly so. Why is Europe having such a hard time to make this clear and stand up for our values?
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Reply #3 - March 01, 2015, 02:51 PM

I do not know what to say to such sheer stupidity....
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Reply #4 - March 07, 2015, 10:24 PM

<------ That's the best I could manage.

`But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
`Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.'
`How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
`You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
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Reply #5 - March 07, 2015, 11:38 PM

This is interesting considering that Muslims, especially in wake of the Charlie hedbo cartoons, have been claiming that it is hypocritical to claim free speech whenever their prophet is insulted, yet lawsuits are brought against people for being anti-Semitic. They claim the Jews get a free pass when it comes to criticism. I think this case shows how "overly sensitive" Europe is to Jewish sensibilities and interests over Muslims.

"I moreover believe that any religion that has anything in it that shocks the mind of a child, cannot be a true system."
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Reply #6 - March 07, 2015, 11:44 PM

Here everyone's favorite scrapped marvel character, Dawahman, explains this free speech double standard:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ztG6oU_HD-o

"I moreover believe that any religion that has anything in it that shocks the mind of a child, cannot be a true system."
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Reply #7 - March 08, 2015, 12:22 AM

Quote from: justperusing on March 07, 2015, 11:38 PM
They claim the Jews get a free pass when it comes to criticism. I think this case shows how "overly sensitive" Europe is to Jewish sensibilities and interests over Muslims.

Absolute bollocks. Islam is often spoken badly about but speaking about dogma is very different from speaking about people. Most criticism of jewishness is anti-judaism not anti-jewish. People don't criticize the theology as so many people criticize the quran/hadiths, they criticize jewish people.

Here's the latest in a long line of examples. Click the link, learn the difference.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2964984/Fight-Jewish-scum-Shocking-anti-Semitism-streets-BRITAIN-Jewish-journalist-spat-abused-stalked-happens-Copenhagen.html

`But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
`Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.'
`How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
`You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
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Reply #8 - March 08, 2015, 07:39 AM

Jews are an ethnic group, Muslims are not. You can criticize Judaism, Islam, etc, but you will be prosecuted if you pick on people: jews, kurds, etc.

There are historical reasons of why Europe is very sensitive regarding Jewish people.

Muslim apologists like to play this victim card, by conflating 2 different things: ethnicity and faith, with only one of them being a choice, therefore open for scrutiny and criticism.
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Reply #9 - March 08, 2015, 12:06 PM

Quote from: nbhb on March 08, 2015, 07:39 AM
...................

There are historical reasons of why Europe is very sensitive regarding Jewish people.........

Could you elaborate that a bit nbhb ., iN what respect Europe is very sensitive regarding Jewish people??
As far as OP is concerned., such court cases and such decisions of courts in democratic countries makes me to give more support to the existence Israel.

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Reply #10 - March 08, 2015, 04:47 PM

Quote from: nbhb on March 08, 2015, 07:39 AM
Jews are an ethnic group, Muslims are not. You can criticize Judaism, Islam, etc, but you will be prosecuted if you pick on people: jews, kurds, etc.

There are historical reasons of why Europe is very sensitive regarding Jewish people.

Muslim apologists like to play this victim card, by conflating 2 different things: ethnicity and faith, with only one of them being a choice, therefore open for scrutiny and criticism.

Jew is religious identification as per the Bible. It is not an ethnic group as Jews have divided along ethnic lines within this identification. No more than Christian is not an ethnic group as it has divides along ethnic divisons itself. The whole ethnic identification is a generalization. The ethnic identification marker follow Judaism and it's traditions. By your argument Muslims are an ethnic group too so your other points have no merit.
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Reply #11 - March 08, 2015, 07:45 PM

So if a Jew converts to Christianity is not a Jew? What is he?

There are atheists Jews, agnostic Jews, Christian Jews. Khazars could have been now another ethnic group related to Judaism, but it didn't worked out. Of course it's an unique situation that Jewish people are now the only ethnic group related to Judaism, so you can have it both ways, Jews as followers of Judaism and Jews as the descendents of Israeli tribes from Judea. Yes, it's easy to conflate this 2 things.

As we speaking about laws, as far as the law regarding Holocaust denial is made in my country (and all Europe I think), it is dealing with racism, there is nothing about Judaism. There have been many ethnic groups killed in Holocaust, not only Jews.

This all thing about specific laws made for Jews only feed Muslim apologists who like to play the victim card.
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Reply #12 - March 08, 2015, 07:57 PM

Jews from Ethiopia, Yemen, India, Uzbekistan, Morocco, Poland. - they may have the same religion, well more or less, but in what conceivable way do they share an ethnicity?

Which side are you on?
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Reply #13 - March 08, 2015, 08:04 PM

Quote from: yeezevee on March 08, 2015, 12:06 PM
Could you elaborate that a bit nbhb ., iN what respect Europe is very sensitive regarding Jewish people??
As far as OP is concerned., such court cases and such decisions of courts in democratic countries makes me to give more support to the existence Israel.

Yes you're right, maybe could have been proper to use the term "Europe should be" or "Europe must be".
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Reply #14 - March 08, 2015, 08:17 PM

Quote from: zeca on March 08, 2015, 07:57 PM
Jews from Ethiopia, Yemen, India, Uzbekistan, Morocco, Poland. - they may have the same religion, well more or less, but in what conceivable way do they share an ethnicity?

They are Jews, they are perceived to be descendants from Israeli tribes. Yes with Jews it's an unique situation and yes religion has held them together. On the other hand if you convert a Jew from Israel to Christianity what is he?
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Reply #15 - March 08, 2015, 08:43 PM

To be fair to nbhb, jews are considered an ethnic group/race the world over, rightly or wrongly.

`But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
`Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.'
`How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
`You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
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Reply #16 - March 08, 2015, 08:52 PM

Yeah but they are of many races though, you could say similar about Islam. My jewish side of the family have snow white blonde hair and blue/green eyes.
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Reply #17 - March 08, 2015, 09:23 PM

Quote from: nbhb on March 08, 2015, 07:45 PM
So if a Jew converts to Christianity is not a Jew? What is he?

A Christian. If the convert drops the religious traditions of Judaism, the food laws, sabbath, etc, the convert no longer has an identification of being a Jew. One could be considered a cultural Jew but this is again a construct since the convert no longer practices strictly Jewish traditions if any. The cultural identification is dictated by a religious view or former in this case, which just is more evidence for it being a religious view not ethnic grouping. Besides in the OT it is crystal clear Jew is the identification of the post-Babylonian exiles which claim to maintain the true religion. This was done in order to show that they, not the Samaritans, are the true believers. The term by it's definition already excludes a similar belief system of the Samaritans. The Khazars are converts which were ethnic Turks of Central Asia. They have no ties with the Hebrews or Israelites. They only have a connect with Judaism post-Babylon by conversion, hence it's a religious identification.

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There are atheists Jews, agnostic Jews, Christian Jews. Khazars could have been now another ethnic group related to Judaism, but it didn't worked out. Of course it's an unique situation that Jewish people are now the only ethnic group related to Judaism, so you can have it both ways, Jews as followers of Judaism and Jews as the descendents of Israeli tribes from Judea. Yes, it's easy to conflate this 2 things.

A Jew is defined by a religious view as per above. Atheist Jews are just former Jews that changed religious views. Again the ties are to former religious views not an ethnic grouping. It conflates nothing since Jew as an ethnic identification is a PC construct. No more than ethnic Christian. See the double-standard at play here? Do you accept the identification of ethnic Muslim?

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As we speaking about laws, as far as the law regarding Holocaust denial is made in my country (and all Europe I think), it is dealing with racism, there is nothing about Judaism. There have been many ethnic groups killed in Holocaust, not only Jews.

The Holocaust was based on racial purity. However since race is a construct it's views have no merit in reality. It has merit in history as an example of people embracing false ideas.

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This all thing about specific laws made for Jews only feed Muslim apologists who like to play the victim card.

Likewise people can merely point out the the specific laws between Muslim and non-Muslim in current and past nations. Such apologist arguments merely point out favoritism, rightly so, and respond with hypocrisy.
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Reply #18 - March 08, 2015, 09:25 PM

Quote from: Quod Sum Eris on March 08, 2015, 08:43 PM
To be fair to nbhb, jews are considered an ethnic group/race the world over, rightly or wrongly.

So? No amount of people agreeing makes an idea true.
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Reply #19 - March 08, 2015, 09:43 PM

Quote from: nbhb on March 08, 2015, 08:17 PM
They are Jews, they are perceived to be descendants from Israeli tribes. Yes with Jews it's an unique situation and yes religion has held them together. On the other hand if you convert a Jew from Israel to Christianity what is he?

Nope, again a Jew is only comprised of 2 of the 12 Tribes of Israeli as per the Bible. Judah after it absorbed Simon and the Leviates. The Priesthood which created this term do not include the 10 Northern Tribes which they considered as "Lost" Otherwise anyone that is a descendant from this region is a Jew. There is no defining genetic markers that differentiate between an Hebrew Semite and a native Canaanite Semite. Yet no one does blood tests to find out of if people are genetic Jews or religious Jews. All standard follow the religious view and not one standard is applied in practice by linage. A descendant would be called an Israelite not a Jew. Likewise a proton-Israelite would be a Hebrew not either of the former.

Again using the standards you have provided any former Muslim or person raised in a Muslim environment is an ethnic Muslim. Thus your argument has no merit as it embrace a double standard.
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Reply #20 - March 08, 2015, 10:02 PM

There is also the cultural aspect to consider. There is still a cultural Jewish identity people embrace.
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Reply #21 - March 08, 2015, 10:13 PM

Likewise there is a Islamic culture people still embrace. Thus to claim Jew is an ethnic identification while Muslim is not is to put forward a double-standard. However both aspects are still defined by a religious view which has cultural implications. It is based on a religious core put into practice and the unifying identity, not Russia, Slavic, Semitic, etc.
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Reply #22 - March 08, 2015, 11:07 PM

Man, you made me laugh. Atheists Jews are not Jews? If a Jew from Israel is converting to Christianity, from ethnicity point of view what is he?

You are making generalisations here, when I and others have said that Jews are a particular unique case to Muslims and Christians as Jews are both a religious and an ethnic group . The Jew term is widely used as both a religious and an ethnic/race term. Antisemitism is widely seen as racism and is related to Jewish people. Also you are generalising the cultural aspect of an ethnicity.

There is no double standard in Holocaust denial laws. Muslims apologists are using this laws just as an excuse.
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Reply #23 - March 08, 2015, 11:18 PM

He's an Israelite jewish apostate convert to christianity lol.. they are wrong to label themselves ethnic jews imo but they already have so it's too late..
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Reply #24 - March 09, 2015, 05:07 AM

Quote from: nbhb on March 08, 2015, 11:07 PM
Man, you made me laugh. Atheists Jews are not Jews? If a Jew from Israel is converting to Christianity, from ethnicity point of view what is he?

A Christian Israelite, not a Christian Jew. People can use whatever made up terms they like but the terms have no basis in biology or anthropology.

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You are making generalisations here, when I and others have said that Jews are a particular unique case to Muslims and Christians as Jews are both a religious and an ethnic group . The Jew term is widely used as both a religious and an ethnic/race term. Antisemitism is widely seen as racism and is related to Jewish people. Also you are generalising the cultural aspect of an ethnicity.

Anti-Semite is also a made up term. Go look at the history of the term. It was created to look "scientific", key word is look. Yet the term itself use a language grouping identification, Semite, not a race or ethnic group thus is a misnomer. The term was created during an era in which people still thought race was biological rather than a social construct/ This further highlights the nature of the term has no basis in reality. The term itself was used by Zionists and anti-Jewish groups as an appeal to emotions.

Go look at the definition of ethnic group. The only one converts and natural Jews from the Levant share is religion hence ethno-religious classification. This is exactly what I have been saying the whole time, the religious views bind the people, nothing else. People misidentify Hebrew and Israelite with Jew because they do not understand the origin of the term. It origins are strictly applied to the tribe of Judah and Levites. Levites are further separated from Judah by being the religious caste. The religious view provides the ethnic basis not the other way around. A common religion binds a dissimilar group together. Just like Islam and Christianity. If a former religious Jew is considered an ethnic Jew, a former Muslim or Christian can be considered a member of an ethnic group via ethno-religious identification. Thus an ethnic Muslim or Christian. To allow one to use this identification while denying another group is hypocrisy. By embracing this hypocrisy you hold a double standard by definition. Also if people are free to identify themselves by the bare minimal of standards classification loses it's meaning. However people can call themselves what they want, it does not make it true. Hence classification still exists but is only applied in academy by any standards not tainted by bias or fallacious reasoning. I am using academic standards not touchy feely appeals to emotion or guilt by association.

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There is no double standard in Holocaust denial laws. Muslims apologists are using this laws just as an excuse.

Nice try to change what you said in an ad hoc manner to what I was replying to. Sadly this is a forum in which one can quote previous comments. You retrofitted this rely as if it was part of the previous comments. It is not nor is my opening comments about this. You changed the source of criticism mid discussion thus has no baring in your arguments. The double standard is clearly detailed above and in previous comments.

Quote

Muslim apologists like to play this victim card, by conflating 2 different things: ethnicity and faith, with only one of them being a choice, therefore open for scrutiny and criticism.

I addressed the Holocaust separate from the "ethnic" identification argument. Denial of the Holocaust is about a historical event. To highlight that this law is solely about Jew is fallacious since the majority of it's victims were not Jews. However the cause as I pointed out was due to two major factors. The race construct and anti-Jew views which dominated Christianity for centuries. Jew were a useful target as they could be lumped into both views by fallacious reasoning. This does not mark the identification true no more than if I were to say Christian is a race.
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Reply #25 - March 09, 2015, 09:03 AM

Quote from: suki on March 08, 2015, 11:18 PM
He's an Israelite jewish apostate convert to christianity lol.. they are wrong to label themselves ethnic jews imo but they already have so it's too late..

Yeah, to late for that. Hey Suki if you have Jewish ancestry you can yourself apply for Israeli citizenship.
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Reply #26 - March 09, 2015, 09:40 AM

Quote from: bogart on March 09, 2015, 05:07 AM
A Christian Israelite, not a Christian Jew. People can use whatever made up terms they like but the terms have no basis in biology or anthropology.

Anti-Semite is also a made up term. Go look at the history of the term. It was created to look "scientific", key word is look. Yet the term itself use a language grouping identification, Semite, not a race or ethnic group thus is a misnomer. The term was created during an era in which people still thought race was biological rather than a social construct/ This further highlights the nature of the term has no basis in reality. The term itself was used by Zionists and anti-Jewish groups as an appeal to emotions.

Go look at the definition of ethnic group. The only one converts and natural Jews from the Levant share is religion hence ethno-religious classification. This is exactly what I have been saying the whole time, the religious views bind the people, nothing else. People misidentify Hebrew and Israelite with Jew because they do not understand the origin of the term. It origins are strictly applied to the tribe of Judah and Levites. Levites are further separated from Judah by being the religious caste. The religious view provides the ethnic basis not the other way around. A common religion binds a dissimilar group together. Just like Islam and Christianity. If a former religious Jew is considered an ethnic Jew, a former Muslim or Christian can be considered a member of an ethnic group via ethno-religious identification. Thus an ethnic Muslim or Christian. To allow one to use this identification while denying another group is hypocrisy. By embracing this hypocrisy you hold a double standard by definition. Also if people are free to identify themselves by the bare minimal of standards classification loses it's meaning. However people can call themselves what they want, it does not make it true. Hence classification still exists but is only applied in academy by any standards not tainted by bias or fallacious reasoning. I am using academic standards not touchy feely appeals to emotion or guilt by association.

Nice try to change what you said in an ad hoc manner to what I was replying to. Sadly this is a forum in which one can quote previous comments. You retrofitted this rely as if it was part of the previous comments. It is not nor is my opening comments about this. You changed the source of criticism mid discussion thus has no baring in your arguments. The double standard is clearly detailed above and in previous comments.

I addressed the Holocaust separate from the "ethnic" identification argument. Denial of the Holocaust is about a historical event. To highlight that this law is solely about Jew is fallacious since the majority of it's victims were not Jews. However the cause as I pointed out was due to two major factors. The race construct and anti-Jew views which dominated Christianity for centuries. Jew were a useful target as they could be lumped into both views by fallacious reasoning. This does not mark the identification true no more than if I were to say Christian is a race.

In fact you are using made up terms like Christian Israelite and Atheist Israelite, etc... Just by using google, you won't find something like the terms you made up here..

Also, you can apply to The Law of return of Israel just by having Jewish ancestry without being adherent to Judaism. Israel is repatriating and have done so in the past, people just because they are perceived to be from the 10 lost tribes.

You made up your mind to prove that Jews are not an ethnic group, just because you think that Europeans are using double standards when it comes to Jews and Muslims. I can't help you with that.
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Reply #27 - March 09, 2015, 10:04 AM

Quote from: nbhb on March 09, 2015, 09:03 AM
Yeah, to late for that. Hey Suki if you have Jewish ancestry you can yourself apply for Israeli citizenship.

Yep : ) i'll go claim my land along with galfromusa.
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Reply #28 - March 09, 2015, 02:24 PM

Quote from: nbhb on March 09, 2015, 09:40 AM
Also, you can apply to The Law of return of Israel just by having Jewish ancestry without being adherent to Judaism.

Or anyone who feels like it, of whatever ethnic background, can convert to Judaism and can also go and live in Israel.

Which side are you on?
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Reply #29 - March 09, 2015, 02:44 PM

Quote
Quote from: nbhb on March 09, 2015, 09:03 AM
Yeah, to late for that. Hey Suki if you have Jewish ancestry you can yourself apply for Israeli citizenship.

Quote from: suki on March 09, 2015, 10:04 AM
Yep : ) i'll go claim my land along with galfromusa.

It is OK to claim Israeli citizenship., but all those who move to Israel should be shipped to Madina.. Last time I read Quran I remember reading that Madina was Jewish Land.. So I say suki and galfromusa and all other CEMBERS with Jewish background should go to international court to claim Madina as their ancestral home..

Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything
I renounced my faith to become a kafir,
the beloved betrayed me and turned in to a Muslim
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