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Theme Changer

 Topic: Islamic Medicine

 (Read 8870 times)
  • 12 Next page « Previous thread | Next thread »
  • Islamic Medicine
     OP - February 25, 2015, 06:58 PM

    Hi everyone,

    I'm doing research on a project regarding Islamic medicine. I was wondering if anyone had any ideas of how Islam/Islamic physicians hindered the development of Islam. I've emailed a few professors (mainly Muslim) and they've all said that Islam and its physicians didn't really hinder medicine - besides the ban on dissection.

    Any ideas would be much appreciated.

    Thank you.
  • Islamic Medicine
     Reply #1 - February 25, 2015, 07:01 PM

    Welcome. First question: what period of Islamic history are you looking at, and where?
  • Islamic Medicine
     Reply #2 - February 25, 2015, 07:12 PM

    Thanks and oops, probably should have mentioned that! During the 7th - 13th century (Islamic Golden Age) and Persia, Al-Andalus and Egypt.
  • Islamic Medicine
     Reply #3 - February 25, 2015, 07:50 PM

    1) Muslim scholars were against dissecting dead bodies for the purpose of research because it was considered disrespectful to the dead.

    2) There is something called 'Unani' medicine, which originates from Greece, but eventually became conflated with the so-called "Prophetic medicine" and is practiced to this in some remote parts of the word by Muslims.

    That being said; I don't think it is fair to say that Muslims hindered the progress of Medicine. You may be able to find some points like the 2 above but despite that the Persian and Arab physicians played a key role in the development of medicine during the Middle ages. They weren't all Muslims (such as al-Razi) but most were.
  • Islamic Medicine
     Reply #4 - February 26, 2015, 08:07 PM

    Alright, thanks for the info Smiley Are there any physicians who, in your opinion, are given more credit than they deserve?
  • Islamic Medicine
     Reply #5 - March 01, 2015, 08:38 PM

    Anyone?
  • Islamic Medicine
     Reply #6 - March 01, 2015, 09:04 PM

    I personally can't think of anyone from that time period. I've gotten the impression that Islam is more of a thorn in the side of science and medicine today than it was before.

    Like captndisguise said, there were many who were actually significant and influential. I haven't heard of anyone exaggerating the importance of a historical Muslim physician/chemist/mathematician, etc. but there are funny cases like Muslims claiming non-Muslim Arab scientists such as al-Razi (who was in fact very critical of Islam) were Muslim scientists.
  • Islamic Medicine
     Reply #7 - March 02, 2015, 02:24 AM

    Was the "medicine" described in the ahadith ever taken seriously? I.e. camel urine, branding, indian incense, black seeds, honey, cupping etc. Black seeds cue every disease expect death yet we still waste billions on cancer research  finmad
  • Islamic Medicine
     Reply #8 - March 02, 2015, 03:00 AM

    You might want to look into Rambam if you're interested in medicine in the Muslim world as practiced by non-Muslims; he was a physician who worked in Palestine until the Crusaders came by, and then he moved to Egypt and became the personal physician of the Muslim ruler there, despite Rambam's being Jewish. He also did something important that helps us learn about his life: he wrote a lot. A LOT. He loved writing. If I remember correctly, I think Guide for the Perplexed (Moreh Nevuchim) had some medical information, although that wasn't what it was about for the most part.

    Here's a list of his medical works on wikipedia (should give you a good base to start from in looking for them):
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maimonides#Medical_works

    Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil, for I have a sonic screwdriver, a tricorder, and a Type 2 phaser.
  • Islamic Medicine
     Reply #9 - March 03, 2015, 08:17 PM

    Thanks, everyone! You've been really helpful and given me some more ideas on what to write. I really appreciate it!  Afro
  • Islamic Medicine
     Reply #10 - March 03, 2015, 09:26 PM

    Good luck!
  • Islamic Medicine
     Reply #11 - March 04, 2015, 03:23 AM

    Was the "medicine" described in the ahadith ever taken seriously? I.e. camel urine, branding, indian incense, black seeds, honey, cupping etc. Black seeds cue every disease expect death yet we still waste billions on cancer research  finmad


    Surely not.  Cheesy

    how fuck works without shit??


    Let's Play Chess!

    harakaat, friend, RIP
  • Islamic Medicine
     Reply #12 - March 04, 2015, 07:48 AM

    Honey and cupping do work for some things. Honey is an antiseptic and can be used as a "vaccine" versus hay fever as has an pollen in it. You eat the honey, get acquainted with the pollen, best if local honey, and then develop to the point where immune system doesn't react much to it. Cupping is good for emptying deep spots and boils too.
  • Islamic Medicine
     Reply #13 - March 04, 2015, 10:24 AM

    Use of honey and cupping dates back to the Egyptians
  • Islamic Medicine
     Reply #14 - March 04, 2015, 10:39 AM

    Yup! Clever lot they were! Ancient Egypt is fascinating!
  • Islamic Medicine
     Reply #15 - March 04, 2015, 12:11 PM

    Was the "medicine" described in the ahadith ever taken seriously? I.e. camel urine, branding, indian incense, black seeds, honey, cupping etc. Black seeds cue every disease expect death yet we still waste billions on cancer research  finmad


    *sips glass of camel milk with urine whilst eating black seed sandwich draped in honey and getting cupping done on back*

    Ahhh. Never felt better

    One only acquires wisdom when one sets the heart and mind open to new ideas.

    Chat: http://client01.chat.mibbit.com/#ex-muslims
  • Islamic Medicine
     Reply #16 - March 04, 2015, 08:58 PM

    LOL
  • Islamic Medicine
     Reply #17 - March 09, 2015, 06:34 PM

    Nigella seeds - I've done some research and from what I read, it says that there is "healing" for all diseases, not a cure, so to some extent, they were right. I've also come across few studies where Nigella seeds have supposedly treated some cancers. It, apparently, has the potential to cure some cancers but researchers haven't been given the go ahead to start testing on humans (haven't been able to find out why yet).

    Camel urine - This one was really weird until I found out that one treatment for menopause involved mare's (female horse) urine. But then again, extracting chemicals from urine and drinking it are two totally different things.
  • Islamic Medicine
     Reply #18 - March 09, 2015, 07:15 PM

    Herbal medicine isn't a crock of shit, homeopathy is bar the long "doctors" appt and placebo effect.
  • Islamic Medicine
     Reply #19 - March 09, 2015, 10:20 PM

    Homoeopathy is just water!
  • Islamic Medicine
     Reply #20 - March 09, 2015, 10:40 PM

    Herbal medicine isn't a crock of shit, homeopathy is bar the long "doctors" appt and placebo effect.

    Depends what you mean by herbal. There are effective herbal remedies that have been shown to work (painkiller made from willow tree bark, certain antitoxins and what have you in other herbal remedies) but the main difference in standard medicine and "alternative medicine" is that one has been shown to work, the other hasn't.

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Islamic Medicine
     Reply #21 - March 11, 2015, 04:01 AM

    Depends what you mean by herbal. There are effective herbal remedies that have been shown to work (painkiller made from willow tree bark, certain antitoxins and what have you in other herbal remedies) but the main difference in standard medicine and "alternative medicine" is that one has been shown to work, the other hasn't.


    Tim Minchin, Storm:
    [Storm speaking, Tim is quoting her:] Pharmaceutical companies are the enemy
    They promote drug dependency
    At the cost of the natural remedies
    That are all our bodies need
    They are immoral and driven by greed.
    Why take drugs
    When herbs can solve it?
    Why use chemicals
    When homeopathic solvents
    Can resolve it?
    It's time we all return-to-live
    With natural medical alternatives.”

    [Tim speaking:] And try as hard as I like,
    A small crack appears
    In my diplomacy-dike.
    “By definition”, I begin
    “Alternative Medicine”, I continue
    “Has either not been proved to work,
    Or been proved not to work.
    You know what they call “alternative medicine”
    That's been proved to work?
    Medicine.”

    [Storm speaking again:] “So you don't believe
    In ANY Natural remedies?”

    “[Tim speaking:] On the contrary actually:
    Before we came to tea,
    I took a natural remedy
    Derived from the bark of a willow tree
    A painkiller that's virtually side-effect free
    It's got a weird name,
    Darling, what was it again?
    Masprin?
    Basprin?
    Asprin!
    Which I paid about a buck for
    Down at my local drugstore.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LkJEp2TbFHA

    Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil, for I have a sonic screwdriver, a tricorder, and a Type 2 phaser.
  • Islamic Medicine
     Reply #22 - March 11, 2015, 08:33 AM

    Quote
    Stott has tracked down a ninth century Abbasid empire scholar called al-Jahiz, an acute observer supplying an intellectual bridge between Renaissance thinkers and the great Aristotle – probably the first philosopher to observe nature closely for unvarnished facts during his obsessive years around the lagoon on the Greek island of Lesbos. It is an intriguing connection, and Darwin would have been delighted by it in his generous way.

    Jahiz was an ecologist rather than an evolutionist. He marvelled at how many different organisms were so perfectly adapted, at links between predator and prey, and how different environments suited different creatures. I confess that I had never heard of his book, Living Beings, but that is my deficiency. To Jahiz, every species was an illustration of Allah's design, making a perfect jigsaw puzzle where every piece had a unique and allocated place. No hint of evolution there.


    http://www.theguardian.com/books/2012/jun/01/darwins-ghosts-rebecca-stott-review

    I get the impression there were thinkers - often with Jewish, Christian or Asian (not muslim) backgrounds, but Islam put blinkers on everything and stopped ideas being explored.

    When you are a Bear of Very Little Brain, and you Think of Things, you find sometimes that a Thing which seemed very Thingish inside you is quite different when it gets out into the open and has other people looking at it.


    A.A. Milne,

    "We cannot slaughter each other out of the human impasse"
  • Islamic Medicine
     Reply #23 - March 11, 2015, 08:39 AM

    Things should be done as noted in the conclusion of the above article

    Quote
    Yet Darwin always strikes his readers as a "bottom up" thinker, not quite Baconian in a devotion to facts before generating theory, but nonetheless somebody who took nothing for granted until he had tested it through experiment or by collecting facts. The proof of this facet of his character lies not in evolution, but in all the other, original contributions he made to science: the origin of coral reefs, the mechanisms of fertilisation in plants, the importance of worms in soil generation, facial expression in animals – the list goes on. Every time, he approached his object of study anew.

    It seems to me that, although Erasmus Darwin lay on his family tree, Charles was not receiving a subliminal message from a dead hypothesiser. As so often before and after, he was starting afresh, open to past influences, but fuelled by his Beagle voyage.


    Islam is a fascinating example of how "theory" effects what is asked and what is seen.

    When you are a Bear of Very Little Brain, and you Think of Things, you find sometimes that a Thing which seemed very Thingish inside you is quite different when it gets out into the open and has other people looking at it.


    A.A. Milne,

    "We cannot slaughter each other out of the human impasse"
  • Islamic Medicine
     Reply #24 - March 11, 2015, 08:51 AM

    Depends what you mean by herbal. There are effective herbal remedies that have been shown to work (painkiller made from willow tree bark, certain antitoxins and what have you in other herbal remedies) but the main difference in standard medicine and "alternative medicine" is that one has been shown to work, the other hasn't.


    That's kind of what I mean.
  • Islamic Medicine
     Reply #25 - March 11, 2015, 10:46 AM

    Nigella seeds - I've done some research and from what I read, it says that there is "healing" for all diseases, not a cure, so to some extent, they were right. I've also come across few studies where Nigella seeds have supposedly treated some cancers. It, apparently, has the potential to cure some cancers but researchers haven't been given the go ahead to start testing on humans (haven't been able to find out why yet).

    Camel urine - This one was really weird until I found out that one treatment for menopause involved mare's (female horse) urine. But then again, extracting chemicals from urine and drinking it are two totally different things.


    Not buying it. If it had any significant effects it would be a staple on shelves or being exploited by the "whole foods" industry. Please supply me with some peer reviews journals stating it's benefits against cancer and other major diseases. As for camel urine, it was prescribed to middle aged men for general sickness. It may well have some very specific benefit some some specific condition, but it was prescribed as for general healing. It has no significant effect that on general health that I'm aware of.
  • Islamic Medicine
     Reply #26 - March 11, 2015, 11:41 AM

    Not buying it. If it had any significant effects it would be a staple on shelves or being exploited by the "whole foods" industry. Please supply me with some peer reviews journals stating it's benefits against cancer and other major diseases. As for camel urine, it was prescribed to middle aged men for general sickness. It may well have some very specific benefit some some specific condition, but it was prescribed as for general healing. It has no significant effect that on general health that I'm aware of.

    No..no.. Nigella seeds does have a chemical called   Thymoquinone that shows lot of promise as medical product questioner..   just search for that chemical you will find 100s of peer reviewed pubs on it..   Plant products acting as medications is different from finding facts and finding the  science behind their actions...

    But going back to the thread.. this Islamic medicine, Islamic science, Islamic prophet, and Islamic scriptures were all there before the birth of that alleged Prophet Muhammad. And  that herbal medications of  Nigella seeds was also known before Islam. So I will not give an inch of space to fools from Islam who thump their chests and make noise  on Islamic medicine, Islamic science, Islamic prophet, and Islamic scriptures........


    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • Islamic Medicine
     Reply #27 - March 11, 2015, 11:57 AM

    Here, here yeez!
  • Islamic Medicine
     Reply #28 - March 11, 2015, 03:13 PM

    Surely not.  Cheesy

     

    There's an article on Pub med claiming " that cupping has potential effect in the treatment of herpes zoster and other specific conditions. 

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3289625/

    In my opinion a life without curiosity is not a life worth living
  • Islamic Medicine
     Reply #29 - March 11, 2015, 03:44 PM

     
    There's an article on Pub med claiming " that cupping has potential effect in the treatment of herpes zoster and other specific conditions.  

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3289625/

     that is a good paper TDR. thank you.,   let me put a pdf file of that. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3289625/pdf/pone.0031793.pdf   ..  Indeed cupping like acupuncture has curing potential. In fact for certain  skin cancers and skin diseases I would rate cupping technique as an adjunctive therapy along with  the counter top skin medications.

    But..but as usual I will not give credit to any religion including Islam.. hadith nonsense for such medical technique. let me bust  the balls of these Islamic SINTISTS  on the History of  Cupping

    Quote
     http://www.acos.org/articles/chinese-medicine-cupping/

    The therapy of cupping has been used in China for thousands of years. At first it was applied using cattle horns or cross sections of bamboo. To create negative pressure inside the horn or bamboo these ancient ‘cups’ where boiled in water or fire was ignited to expel the air and suck the cups onto the skin. These cups were used mostly to draw out pus and blood in the treatment of boils. Cupping was originally used as an auxiliary method in traditional Chinese surgery. Later it was found to be useful in treating other diseases and developed into a special therapeutic method.

    The earliest record of cupping is in the Bo Shu (an ancient book written on silk), which was discovered in a tomb of the Han Dynasty. Several other ancient texts mention Chinese medicine cupping. Several centuries later another famous medical classic, Su Sen Liang Fang, recorded an effective cure for chronic cough and the successful treatment of poisonous snake bites using cupping therapy.


    Quote
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cupping_therapy
     
    There is reason to believe the practice dates from as early as 3000 B.C.; the earliest record of cupping is in the Ebers Papyrus, one of the oldest medical textbooks in the world, describes in 1550 B.C. Egyptians used cupping. Archaeologists have found evidence in China of cupping dating back to 1000 B.C. In ancient Greece, Hippocrates (c. 400 B.C.) used cupping for internal disease and structural problems. This method in multiple forms spread into medicine throughout Asian and European civilizations.


    Quote
    http://morganmassage.com/2012/01/16/history-of-cupping/

    The true origin of cupping still remains uncertain to this day.  Some consider the Chinese to be responsible for cupping, however, the earliest pictorial records date back to the ancient Egyptians around 1500 B.C.  Translations of hieroglyphics in the Ebers Papyrus, the oldest  medical text book, detail the use of cupping for treating fever, pain, vertigo, menstrual imbalances, weakened appetite and helping to accelerate the healing crisis. From the Egyptians, cupping was introduced to the ancient Greeks, where Hippocrates, the Father of Modern Medicine and cupping advocate, viewed cupping as a remedy for almost every type of disease.  In fact, other Greek physicians used the strong suction of cupping to restore spinal alignment by reducing dislocated vertebrae from protruding inward.

    The earliest recorded use of cupping came from the famous alchemist and herbalist, Ge Hong (281-341 A.D.), who popularized the saying “Acupuncture and cupping, more than half of the ills cured.”

    The Chinese expanded the utilization of cupping to include its use in surgery to divert blood flow from the surgery site.  In the 1950’s, after much extensive research, a collaborative effort between the former Soviet Union and China confirmed the clinical efficacy of cupping therapy. Since then, cupping has become a mainstay of government-sponsored hospitals of Traditional Chinese medicine.


    Quote
    http://www.greekmedicine.net/therapies/Hijama_or_Cupping.html

    Cupping, called Hijama by the Muslims, is the application of suction cups to the skin to draw out stagnant, congested blood and Vital Force, as well as other stagnant or morbid humors.  Usually, the cups are made of glass, but they can also be made of bamboo, bone, horn or metal.

    Cupping therapy is an incredibly ancient and universal practice that spans both East and West.  In the primitive shamanistic practices of all the world's indigenous peoples, there were certain shamans who specialized in the sucking out of illness and infirmity from the body.  

         In the East, the Chinese have been practicing the art of cupping for at least three thousand years.  Along with Tui Na massage, acupuncture and moxibustion, cupping forms part of the traditional bodywork or physiotherapy system of TCM, or Traditional Chinese Medicine.  Cupping is applied to the acupuncture points to relieve the stagnation of Qi and blood, both locally and in the organ(s) activated by the point.
     
         In the West, cupping therapy had its birth in Egypt.  The Ebers Papyrus, written around 1550 B.C.E., states that bleeding by wet cupping removes foreign matter from the body.  In cupping, the ancient Egyptians saw the remedy for just about every disorder.  

         The ancient Egyptians passed the art of cupping on to the ancient Greeks.  Both Hippocrates and Galen were staunch advocates and users of cupping therapy.  Galen once condemned Erasistratus, a noted physician in Alexandria, for not using cupping.  Herodotus, a famous Greek historian and physician, wrote, in 413 B.C.:


    So no more fooling people with silly hadith and no more  nonsense words like.......   Islamic medicine .. Islamic biology..Islamic geology.. Islamic chemistry.. Islamic Math ..Islamic astronomy..etc..etc..

    It is true there were wonderful Intelligent rational folks that happened to born  to Muslim parents  or born Muslim societies that  contributed to medieval  science and technology .. but..but THAT IS NOTHING TO DO WITH ISLAM..

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • 12 Next page « Previous thread | Next thread »