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Theme Changer

 Topic: Pigs/Pork

 (Read 3620 times)
  • 1« Previous thread | Next thread »
  • Pigs/Pork
     OP - January 14, 2015, 04:58 PM

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/11345369/Oxford-University-Press-bans-use-of-pig-sausage-or-pork-related-words-to-avoid-offending-Muslims.html

    The Oxford University Press have banned/advised against anything that refers to Pigs/Pork.

    Since leaving Islam have you started to eat pork, or is it still something you'd prefer not to eat Smiley 
  • Pigs/Pork
     Reply #1 - January 14, 2015, 05:01 PM

    The latter. I still feel kind of nauseous when I think about eating pork.
    On the other hand, I rarely eat meat anyways & when I do, it's always chicken.

    My mind runs, I can never catch it even if I get a head start.
  • Pigs/Pork
     Reply #2 - January 14, 2015, 05:05 PM

    Let me just have a read up on why they are considered dirty, I've never looked into it before.

  • Pigs/Pork
     Reply #3 - January 14, 2015, 05:06 PM



    How stupid!!

    Even as a Muslim I never had a problem with that. My kids used to love the "Three Little Pigs" before bed-time.

    This sort of thing really pisses me off, because most Muslims don't give a shit about that.

    I remember at Islamia School when something like this was suggested (not by a Muslim I might add) we all said: "That's ridiculous - God created pigs. We don't eat them - and that's it. It's not haram to look at them or write kids stories about them etc..."

  • Pigs/Pork
     Reply #4 - January 14, 2015, 05:10 PM

    Well, it took me a while to be able to eat pork. The day I ate bacon for the first time was the day I finally admit to myself that I'm an atheist.
    And my first hot dog was amazing as well.  Cheesy
    I have slowly learned how to love pork, but in the beginning it was really weird and nauseating.

    Specially Danish flæskesteg  parrot

    You are the Universe, Expressing itself as a Human for a little while- Eckhart Tolle
  • Pigs/Pork
     Reply #5 - January 14, 2015, 05:11 PM

    And banning it is extremely ridiculous.  Huh? Even when I was religious I used to find piglets cute.

    You are the Universe, Expressing itself as a Human for a little while- Eckhart Tolle
  • Pigs/Pork
     Reply #6 - January 14, 2015, 05:18 PM

    How stupid!!

    Even as a Muslim I never had a problem with that. My kids used to love the "Three Little Pigs" before bed-time.

    This sort of thing really pisses me off, because most Muslims don't give a shit about that.

    I remember at Islamia School when something like this was suggested (not by a Muslim I might add) we all said: "That's ridiculous - God created pigs. We don't eat them - and that's it. It's not haram to look at them or write kids stories about them etc..."




    Yeah, you have got to be fucking kidding me! Has this got to do with Saudi/Gulf funding at Oxford University? I sorry if this sounds crass but stand up for British life for goodness sake, Bacon sarnies are so British!
  • Pigs/Pork
     Reply #7 - January 14, 2015, 05:19 PM

    Yes piglets are about as cute as you can get.  

    Just read up on them it doesn't look good I admit that.  But Pork is very tasty.  Although, I'd never eat a sausage or any other processed meat.  

    Probably a white liberal policy from Oxford Uni, these types of things only divide.  There are now so many social rules and barriers to communications these days I'm shock people still manage to talk to each other.  
  • Pigs/Pork
     Reply #8 - January 14, 2015, 08:57 PM

    Just reading a year of living Danishly!  Brilliant book!  It seems vast majority of thirteen year old get confirmed in Church.  Why?  Tradition!  Brilliant celebration, acknowlegement of becoming an adult - there is even a nonfirmation ceremony if you are fussy!

    Nine year olds love going to large animal dissections!


    When you are a Bear of Very Little Brain, and you Think of Things, you find sometimes that a Thing which seemed very Thingish inside you is quite different when it gets out into the open and has other people looking at it.


    A.A. Milne,

    "We cannot slaughter each other out of the human impasse"
  • Pigs/Pork
     Reply #9 - January 14, 2015, 08:59 PM

    Haha, yeah Denmark in a nutshell.  Cheesy

    You are the Universe, Expressing itself as a Human for a little while- Eckhart Tolle
  • Pigs/Pork
     Reply #10 - January 15, 2015, 12:58 AM

    Yeah, you have got to be fucking kidding me! Has this got to do with Saudi/Gulf funding at Oxford University? I sorry if this sounds crass but stand up for British life for goodness sake, Bacon sarnies are so British!


    I search a few other sources, from what Guardian reported, it seems like it's more to do with worrying about exporting these text books to the Muslim-majority countries than anything else. And there are also a lot more taboo subjects, not simply pigs and pork. Also one of the authors affected said in the Guardian article that it is likely due more to those governments than any individual Muslim, which I think is a reasonable guess.

    So I think it is more of a profit driven business decision, but of course it could effectively curtail freedom of expression, but this isn't anything new, and it is not really bowing to the pressure of Muslim or Muslim governments either. It is bowing to the money/profit. It is quite shameful, but I don't think it has much to do with political correctness in this case.
  • Pigs/Pork
     Reply #11 - January 15, 2015, 03:56 AM

    My life is in three countries - Japan, Nicaragua and Britain.

    For all the faults of the first two, Britain is somehow uniquely repellent.

    All that enlightenment for this farrago. Can't stand it.
  • Pigs/Pork
     Reply #12 - January 15, 2015, 04:11 AM

    Its not so much that Britain is uniquely repellant, its more that the British are seemingly uniquely unable to learn from their own history. 

    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Pigs/Pork
     Reply #13 - January 15, 2015, 04:23 AM

    Japan is still less able to learn from its history, but Britain is more puritannical and self-righteous somehow.
  • Pigs/Pork
     Reply #14 - January 15, 2015, 04:28 AM

    In what way?

    "Befriend them not, Oh murtads, and give them neither parrot nor bunny."  - happymurtad's advice on trolls.
  • Pigs/Pork
     Reply #15 - January 15, 2015, 04:49 AM

    Queasy apologetic moral imperialism.

    P'raps.
  • Pigs/Pork
     Reply #16 - January 24, 2015, 09:30 PM

    Bacon is, IMO, proof positive that at least two major religions are quite wrong.
  • Pigs/Pork
     Reply #17 - January 25, 2015, 04:14 AM

    I purposely read my children The Three Little Pigs. Then my daughter had me read it to her every night For A Year. I am still in recovery.
    I think my local Subway stopped carrying bacon, and I have no idea why. There are no Muslims around here, and there is not a synagogue for a long, long drive. Must be a corporate decision. As a vegetarian, it doesn't really affect me.
    Pork does not agree with my kid's tummies. So I don't have them eat it straight, but blended, like in hot dogs, so that they can get used to it.

    Don't let Hitler have the street.
  • Pigs/Pork
     Reply #18 - January 25, 2015, 08:51 AM

    My life is in three countries - Japan, Nicaragua and Britain.

    For all the faults of the first two, Britain is somehow uniquely repellent.

    All that enlightenment for this farrago. Can't stand it.



    Would you care to expand upon this statement? At face value it seems uniquely bigoted, especially on a forum that seems to exist for the purpose of reducing bigotry.
  • Pigs/Pork
     Reply #19 - January 25, 2015, 08:53 AM

    Let me just have a read up on why they are considered dirty, I've never looked into it before.




    All religions have a tendency to feature some dietary injunction or prohibition, whether it is the now lapsed Catholic injunction to eat fish on Fridays, or the adoration by Hindus of the cow as a consecrated and invulnerable animal (the government of India even offered to import and protect all the cattle facing slaughter as a result of the bovine encephalitic, or "mad cow," plague that swept Europe in the 1990s), or the refusal by some other Eastern cults to consume any animal flesh, or to injure any other creature be it rat or flea. But the oldest and most tenacious of all fetishes is the hatred and even fear of the pig. It emerged in primitive Judaea, and was for centuries one of the ways—the other being circumcision—by which Jews could be distinguished.

    Even though sura 5.60 of the Koran condemns particularly Jews but also other unbelievers as having been turned into pigs and monkeys—a very intense theme in recent Salafist Muslim preaching— and the Koran describes the flesh of swine as unclean or even "abominable," Muslims appear to see nothing ironic in the adoption of this uniquely Jewish taboo. Real horror of the porcine is manifest all over the Islamic world. One good instance would be the continued prohibition of George Orwell's Animal Farm, one of the most charming and useful fables of modern times, of the reading of which Muslim schoolchildren are deprived. I have perused some of the solemn prohibition orders written by Arab education ministries, which are so stupid that they fail to notice the evil and dictatorial role played by the pigs in the story itself.

    Orwell actually did dislike pigs, as a consequence of his failure as a small farmer, and this revulsion is shared by many adults who have had to work with these difficult animals in agricultural conditions. Crammed together in sties, pigs tend to act swinishly, as it were, and to have noisy and nasty fights. It is not unknown for them to eat their own young and even their own excrement, while their tendency to random and loose gallantry is often painful to the more fastidious eye. But it has often been noticed that pigs left to their own devices, and granted sufficient space, will keep themselves very clean, arrange little bowers, bring up families, and engage in social interaction with other pigs. The creatures also display many signs of intelligence, and it has been calculated that the crucial ratio—between brain weight and body weight—is almost as high with them as it is in dolphins. There is great adaptability between the pig and its environment, as witness wild boars and "feral pigs" as opposed to the placid porkers and frisky piglets of our more immediate experience. But the cloven hoof, or trotter, became a sign of diabolism to the fearful, and I daresay that it is easy to surmise which came first—the devil or the pig. It would be merely boring and idiotic to wonder how the designer of all things conceived such a versatile creature and then commanded his higher-mammal creation to avoid it altogether or risk his eternal displeasure. But many otherwise intelligent mammals affect the belief that heaven hates ham..

    I hope that you have guessed by now what we know in any case— that this fine beast is one of our fairly close cousins. It shares a great deal of our DNA, and there have lately been welcome transplants of skin, heart valves, and kidneys from pigs to humans. If—which I heartily trust does not happen—a new Dr Moreau could corrupt recent advances in cloning and create a hybrid, a "pig-man" is widely feared as the most probable outcome. Meanwhile, almost everything about the pig is useful, from its nutritious and delicious meat to its tanned hide for leather and its bristles for brushes. In Upton Sinclair's graphic novel of the Chicago slaughterhouse, The Jungle, it is agonizing to read about the way that pigs are borne aloft on hooks, screaming as their throats are cut. Even the strongest nerves of the most hardened workers are shaken by the experience. There is something about that shriek . ..

    To press this a little further, one may note that children if left unmolested by rabbis and imams are very drawn to pigs, especially to baby ones, and that fire-fighters in general do not like to eat roast pork or crackling. The barbaric vernacular word for roasted human in New Guinea and elsewhere was "long pig": I have never had the relevant degustatative experience myself, but it seems that we do, if eaten, taste very much like pigs.

    This helps to make nonsense of the usual "secular" explanations of the original Jewish prohibition. It is argued that the ban was initially rational, since pig meat in hot climates can become rank and develop the worms of trichinosis. This objection—which perhaps does apply in the case of non-kosher shellfish—is absurd when applied to the actual conditions. First, trichinosis is found in all climates, and in fact occurs more in cold than in hot ones. Second, ancient Jewish settlements in the land of Canaan can easily be distinguished by archaeologists by the absence of pig bones in their rubbish tips, as opposed to the presence of such bones in the middens of other communities. The non-Jews did not sicken and die from eating pork, in other words. (Quite apart from anything else, if they had died for this reason there would have been no need for the god of Moses to urge their slaughter by non-pig-eaters.)

    There must therefore be another answer to the conundrum. I claim my own solution as original, though without the help of Sir James Frazer and the great Ibn Warraq I might not have hit upon it. According to many ancient authorities, the attitude of early Semites to swine was one of reverence as much as disgust. The eating of pig flesh was considered as something special, even privileged and ritualistic. (This mad confusion between the sacred and the profane is found in all faiths at all times.) The simultaneous attraction and repulsion derived from an anthropomorphic root: the look of the pig, and the taste of the pig, and the dying yells of the pig, and the evident intelligence of the pig, were too uncomfortably reminiscent of the human.

    Porcophobia—and porcophilia—thus probably originate in a night-time of human sacrifice and even cannibalism at which the "holy" texts often do more than hint. Nothing optional—from homosexuality to adultery—is ever made punishable unless those who do the prohibiting (and exact the fierce punishments) have a repressed desire to participate. As Shakespeare put it in King Lear, the policeman who lashes the whore has a hot need to use her for the very offense for which he plies the lash.

    Porcophilia can also be used for oppressive and repressive purposes. In medieval Spain, where Jews and Muslims were compelled on pain of death and torture to convert to Christianity, the religious authorities quite rightly suspected that many of the conversions were not sincere. Indeed, the Inquisition arose partly from the holy dread that secret infidels were attending Mass—where of course, and even more disgustingly, they were pretending to eat human flesh and drink human blood, in the person of Christ himself. Among the customs that arose in consequence was the offering, at most events formal and informal, of a plate of charcuterie. Those who have been fortunate enough to visit Spain, or any good Spanish restaurant, will be familiar with the gesture of hospitality: literally dozens of pieces of differently cured, differently sliced pig. But the grim origin of this lies in a constant effort to sniff out heresy, and to be unsmilingly watchful for giveaway expressions of distaste. In the hands of eager Christian fanatics, even the toothsome Jamon Iberico could be pressed into service as a form of torture.

    Today, ancient stupidity is upon us again. Muslim zealots in Europe are demanding that the Three Little Pigs, and Miss Piggy, Winnie-the-Pooh's Piglet, and other traditional pets and characters be removed from the innocent gaze of their children. The mirthless cretins of jihad have probably not read enough to know of the Empress of Blandings, and of the Earl of Emsworth's infinitely renewable delight in the splendid pages of the incomparable author Mr Whiffle, The Care of the Pig, but there will be trouble when they get that far. An old statue of a wild boar, in an arboretum in Middle England, has already been threatened with mindless Islamic vandalism.

    In microcosm, this apparently trivial fetish shows how religion and faith and superstition distort our whole picture of the world. The pig is so close to us, and has been so handy to us in so many respects, that a strong case is now made by humanists that it should not be factory-farmed, confined, separated from its young, and forced to live in its own ordure. All other considerations to one side, the resulting pink and spongy meat is somewhat rebarbative. But this is a decision that we can make in the plain light of reason and compassion, as extended to fellow creatures and relatives, and not as a result of incantations from Iron Age campfires where much worse offenses were celebrated in the name of god. "Pig's head on a stick," says the nervous but stout-hearted Ralph in the face of the buzzing, suppurating idol (first killed and then worshipped) that has been set up by cruel, frightened schoolboys in Lord of the Flies. "Pig's head on a stick." And he was more right than he could have known, and much wiser than his elders as well as his delinquent juniors.


    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Pigs/Pork
     Reply #20 - January 25, 2015, 08:54 AM

    Its not so much that Britain is uniquely repellant, its more that the British are seemingly uniquely unable to learn from their own history.  


    Not so much? Then you seem to agree that Britain is uniquely repellent, or at least just  repellent. As per my last post, perhaps you might care to expand upon this surprising opinion. And which nations ever truly learn from their own history?
  • Pigs/Pork
     Reply #21 - January 25, 2015, 09:40 AM

    "Most Muslims don't give a shit about that."

    Really? I wish it were true, for pigs (and to a lesser extent, dogs - especially black dogs for some reason - anyone know why that is?) It's certainly not the view of my family, not one of them - well apart from the non-muslim and 'agnostic muslim' members. My younger brother wouldn't let his kids go near my pot belly pigs when I kept them and I see there are no cute little piggies in the 'petting zoo' on his 'halal' farm. I'm 1000% certain that he wouldn't dream of 'contaminating' the goats, sheep etc 1)because of his dislike of this particular brand of God's creatures, and 2) because his Muslim customers would be up in arms. So I think quite a few do 'give a shit', unfortunately. It's their loss.

    Ha Ha.
  • Pigs/Pork
     Reply #22 - January 25, 2015, 09:48 AM

    Aren't black dogs a manifestation of evil, whereas non black dogs are simply unclean and angels won't enter a home with one?

    `But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
     `Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad.  You're mad.'
     `How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
     `You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
  • Pigs/Pork
     Reply #23 - January 25, 2015, 10:40 AM

    I tried pork and it made me feel queasy. Fried bacon on the other is absolutely delicious.

    Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. - Terry Pratchett
  • Pigs/Pork
     Reply #24 - January 25, 2015, 11:14 AM

    Would you care to expand upon this statement? At face value it seems uniquely bigoted, especially on a forum that seems to exist for the purpose of reducing bigotry.

    Lawks-a-mercy. I did expand on it, tersely.
  • Pigs/Pork
     Reply #25 - January 25, 2015, 11:16 AM

    Not so much? Then you seem to agree that Britain is uniquely repellent, or at least just  repellent. As per my last post, perhaps you might care to expand upon this surprising opinion. And which nations ever truly learn from their own history?

    You need to relax a bit.
  • Pigs/Pork
     Reply #26 - January 25, 2015, 12:02 PM

    Not so much? Then you seem to agree that Britain is uniquely repellent, or at least just  repellent. As per my last post, perhaps you might care to expand upon this surprising opinion. And which nations ever truly learn from their own history?


    It might be better to acclimatise yourself to the forum before "shooting" from the hip, shootist.

    Cheetah is one of our most perceptive and well-respected long-time members and you'd do well to read a few more of her posts to get the bigger picture of where she's coming form, before going on the attack.
  • Pigs/Pork
     Reply #27 - January 25, 2015, 02:19 PM

    Aren't black dogs a manifestation of evil, whereas non black dogs are simply unclean and angels won't enter a home with one?


    I know black dogs are specifically mentioned in hadith. Something about all dogs were to be killed, then just the black ones, or just the ones that did not guard. There is abrogation there somewhere, or as I like to call it, contradiction. The angels thing I heard a million times. Nice to see you, Quod!

    Don't let Hitler have the street.
  • Pigs/Pork
     Reply #28 - January 25, 2015, 07:35 PM

    It might be better to acclimatise yourself to the forum before "shooting" from the hip, shootist.

    Cheetah is one of our most perceptive and well-respected long-time members and you'd do well to read a few more of her posts to get the bigger picture of where she's coming form, before going on the attack.


    With respect, I hardly think that I 'went on the attack'. I asked for an expansion of the posts. If the poster/s have a unique sense of humour or irony then fine. Then perhaps they might explain to a newcomer as a gesture of welcome. Sort of explaining where they are coming from. I'd understand such an explanation as I tend to have an individual way with words myself. But if my words are not understood then I first have a duty to examine whether or not any misunderstanding is down to me. But thanks for the heads up. I shall read on with interest.
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