Skip navigation
Sidebar -

Advanced search options →

Welcome

Welcome to CEMB forum.
Please login or register. Did you miss your activation email?

Donations

Help keep the Forum going!
Click on Kitty to donate:

Kitty is lost

Recent Posts


Qur'anic studies today
Today at 06:50 AM

Do humans have needed kno...
April 20, 2024, 12:02 PM

Lights on the way
by akay
April 19, 2024, 04:40 PM

اضواء على الطريق ....... ...
by akay
April 19, 2024, 12:50 PM

Do humans have needed kno...
April 19, 2024, 04:17 AM

What's happened to the fo...
by zeca
April 18, 2024, 06:39 PM

New Britain
April 18, 2024, 05:41 PM

Iran launches drones
April 13, 2024, 09:56 PM

عيد مبارك للجميع! ^_^
by akay
April 12, 2024, 04:01 PM

Eid-Al-Fitr
by akay
April 12, 2024, 12:06 PM

Mock Them and Move on., ...
January 30, 2024, 10:44 AM

Pro Israel or Pro Palesti...
January 29, 2024, 01:53 PM

Theme Changer

 Topic: Games People Play and Islam

 (Read 3737 times)
  • 1« Previous thread | Next thread »
  • Games People Play and Islam
     OP - December 19, 2014, 07:14 AM

    I wonder if Islam is a formalised institutionalised way of not communicating and arresting development.

    http://www.ericberne.com/eric_berne_biography/

    Quote
    Using references to P. Federn, E. Kann, and H. Silberer, in the first article Berne indicated how he arrived at the concept of ego states and where he got the idea of separating “adult” from “child.” In the next article he developed the tripartite scheme used today (Parent, Adult, and Child), introduced the three-circle method of diagramming it, showed how to sketch contaminations, labeled the theory, “structural analysis” and termed it “a new psychotherapeutic approach.” The third article, titled “Transactional Analysis: A New and Effective Method of Group Therapy,” was written a few months later and presented by invitation at the 1957 Western Regional Meeting of the American Group Psychotherapy Association of Los Angeles. With the publication of this paper in the 1958 issue of the American Journal of Psychotherapy, Transactional Analysis, the name of Berne’s new method of diagnosis and treatment, became a permanent part of the psychotherapeutic literature. In addition to restating his concepts of P-A-C, structural analysis, and ego states, the 1957 paper added the important new features of games and scripts.   Berne went on to publish Games People Play in 1964 where he introduced games and Transactional Analysis.


    Quote
    Berne ultimately defined the three ego states as: Parent, Adult, and Child. It should be carefully noted that the descriptions of these ego states do NOT necessarily correspond to their common definitions as used the English language.

    Before describing each of the three ego states, it is important to note that these are fundamentally different than Freud’s Ego, Id, and Superego. Berne describes this best when he writes in Transactional Analysis in Psychotherapy:

    “It will be demonstrated that Parent, Adult, and Child are not concepts, like Superego, Ego, and Id, or the Jungian constructs, but phenomenological realities.“5 Stated another way, Freud’s ego states are unobservable, theoretical states; but Berne’s three ego states can be confirmed with observable behaviors.

    The following are detailed descriptions of the three ego states:

    Parent – The parent represents a massive collection of recordings in the brain of external events experienced or perceived in approximately the first five years of life. Since the majority of the external events experienced by a child are actions of the parent, the ego state was appropriately called Parent. Note that events perceived by the child from individuals that are NOT parents (but who are often in parent-like roles) are also recorded in the Parent. When Transactional Analysts refer to the Parent ego state (as opposed to a biological or stepparent), it is capitalized. The same goes for the other two states (Adult and Child).

    Examples of recordings in the Parent include:

    “Never talk to strangers”

    “Always chew with your mouth closed”

    “Look both ways before you cross the street”

    It is worth noting that, while recording these events, the young child has no way to filter the data; the events are recorded without question and without analysis. One can consider that these events are imposed on the child.

    There are other data experienced by the child that are not recorded in the Parent. This is recorded in the Adult, which will be described shortly.

    Child – In contrast to the Parent, the Child represents the recordings in the brain of internal events associated with external events the child perceives. Stated another way, stored in the Child are the emotions or feelings which accompanied external events. Like the Parent, recordings in the Child occur from childbirth all the way up to the age of approximately 5 years old.

    Examples of recordings in the Child include:

    “When I saw the monster’s face, I felt really scared”

    “The clown at the birthday party was really funny!

    Adult – The Adult is the last ego state. Close to one year of age, a child begins to exhibit gross motor activity. The child learns that he or she can control a cup from which to drink, that he or she can grab a toy. In social settings, the child can play peek-a-boo.

    This is the beginning of the Adult in the small child. Adult data grows out of the child’s ability to see what is different than what he or she observed (Parent) or felt (Child). In other words, the Adult allows the young person to evaluate and validate Child and Parental data. Berne describes the Adult as being “principally concerned with transforming stimuli into pieces of information, and processing and filing that information on the basis of previous experience”6 Stated another way, Harris describes the Adult as “a data-processing computer, which grinds out decisions after computing the information from three sources: the Parent, the Child, and the data which the adult has gathered and is gathering”7

    One of the key functions of the Adult is to validate data in the parent. An example is:

    “Wow. It really is true that pot handles should always be turned into the stove” said Sally as she saw her brother burn himself when he grabbed a pot handle sticking out from the stove.

    In this example, Sally’s Adult reached the conclusion that data in her Parent was valid. Her Parent had been taught “always turn pot handles into the stove, otherwise you could get burned.” And with her analysis of her brother’s experience, her Adult concluded that this was indeed correct.

    In an attempt to explain Transactional Analysis to a more mainstream audience, Dr. Thomas Harris developed the following summary. Although this is a very good tool for beginners to learn, keep in mind that this a wildly simplified approach, and can have the effect of “dumbing down” Transactional Analysis. The summary is as follows:

    Parent – taught concept
    Child – felt concept
    Adult – learned concept

    A more comprehensive understanding of Berne’s ego states can be obtained by consulting Games People Play or Transactional Analysis in Psychotherapy, both by Dr. Berne. Information on both of these books can be found in the Bibliography page.

    Analyzing Transactions

    When two people communicate, one person initiates a transaction with the transactional stimulus (see the above Transactions Defined section for a definition of the transaction stimulus). The person at whom the stimulus is directed will respond with the transactional response. Simple Transactional Analysis involves identifying which ego state directed the stimulus and which ego state in the other person executed the response.

    According to Dr. Berne, the simplest transactions are between Adults ego states. For example, a surgeon will survey the patient, and based upon the data before him/her, his/her Adult decides that the scalpel is the next instrument required. The surgeon’s Adult holds out his/her hand, providing the transactional stimulus to the nurse. The nurse’s Adult looks at the hand, and based upon previous experiences, concludes that the scalpel is needed. The nurse then places the scalpel in the surgeon’s hand.

    But not all transactions proceed in this manner. Some transactions involve ego states other than the Adult.

    Parent Adult Child diagram used in Transactional Analysis
    Structural Diagram
    This leads us to Parent – Child transactions, which are almost as simple as Adult-Adult transactions. Quoting Dr. Berne in Games People Play:  “The fevered child asks for a glass of water, and the nurturing mother brings it.”8  In this, the Child of a small child directs an inquiry to the Parent of his/her mother. The Parent of the mother acknowledges this stimuli, and then gives the water to the child. In this example, the small child’s request is the stimuli, and the parent providing the water is the response.  This is nearly as simple as an Adult-Adult transaction.

    One of the tools used by a Transactional Analysis practitioner is a structural diagram, as represented on the left.  A structural diagram represents the complete personality of any individual. It includes the Parent, Adult, and Child ego states, all separate and distinct from each other.  The diagram was developed by Eric Berne before Games People Play when he was developing his theories of Transactional Analysis.

    Parent Child Transaction seen in Transactional Analysis
    Child interacting with a Parent
    Transactional Analysts will then construct a diagram showing the ego states involved in a particular transaction. The transaction to the right shows a Parent – Child transaction, with the Child ego state providing the transactional stimulus, and the Adult responding with the transactional response.

    This transaction matches the Parent – Child example listed above, with the fevered child asking his/her mother for a glass of water.

    So far, the two transactions described can be considered complementary transactions. In a complementary transaction, the response must go back from the receiving ego state to the sending ego state. For example, a person may initiate a transaction directed towards one ego state of the respondent. The respondent’s ego state detects the stimuli, and then that particular ego state (meaning the ego state to which the stimuli was directed) produces a response. According to Dr. Berne, these transactions are healthy and represent normal human interactions. As Berne says in Games People Play “communication will proceed as long as transactions are complementary.”9



    Crossed Transaction

    However, not all transactions between humans are healthy or normal. In those cases, the transaction is classified as a crossed transaction. In a crossed transaction, an ego state different than the ego state which received the stimuli is the one that responds. The diagram to the right shows a typical crossed transaction. An example is as follows:

    Agent’s Adult: “Do you know where my cuff links are?” (note that this stimuli is directed at the Respondents Adult).

    Respondent’s Child: “You always blame me for everything!”10

    This is one the classic crossed transactions that occurs in marriage. Instead of the Respondent’s Adult responding with “I think they’re on the desk”, it is the Respondent’s Child that responds back.

    It is important to note that when analyzing transactions, one must look beyond what is being said. According to Dr. Berne, one must look at how the words are being delivered (accents on particular words, changes in tone, volume, etc.) as the non-verbal signs accompanying those words (body language, facial expressions, etc.). Transactional Analysts will pay attention to all of these cues when analyzing a transaction and identifying which ego states are involved.



    When you are a Bear of Very Little Brain, and you Think of Things, you find sometimes that a Thing which seemed very Thingish inside you is quite different when it gets out into the open and has other people looking at it.


    A.A. Milne,

    "We cannot slaughter each other out of the human impasse"
  • Games People Play and Islam
     Reply #1 - December 19, 2014, 08:40 AM

    I skimmed through the text, care to elaborate on what you mean? Smiley

    "The healthiest people I know are those who are the first to label themselves fucked up." - three
  • Games People Play and Islam
     Reply #2 - December 19, 2014, 09:21 AM

    That we normally relate to each other as parent to child, child to child or adult to adult.

    We grow and develop and try out new relationships and how to get on with each other.

    But a huge set of rules get imposed on certain groups of people where they are not actually allowed to learn for example that pan handles are hot, they are continually told such things, like which foot to leave a toilet with.

    So instead of working out what makes sense, they continue to submit and actually be quite infantile and work on rules, and transmit those rules to others.

    They then get very cross with people who think things for themselves and they have the equivalent of adult temper tantrums, including killing people in schools - institutions that are explicitly designed to get people thinking for themselves.....

    When you are a Bear of Very Little Brain, and you Think of Things, you find sometimes that a Thing which seemed very Thingish inside you is quite different when it gets out into the open and has other people looking at it.


    A.A. Milne,

    "We cannot slaughter each other out of the human impasse"
  • Games People Play and Islam
     Reply #3 - December 19, 2014, 09:30 AM

    That Islam is actually a huge game with specific rules and arguments about those rules that people play throughout their lives.  Certain films made real....

    When you are a Bear of Very Little Brain, and you Think of Things, you find sometimes that a Thing which seemed very Thingish inside you is quite different when it gets out into the open and has other people looking at it.


    A.A. Milne,

    "We cannot slaughter each other out of the human impasse"
  • Games People Play and Islam
     Reply #4 - December 19, 2014, 09:35 AM

    Many years ago a manager I had used to say every so often "I don't want to play today".

    When you are a Bear of Very Little Brain, and you Think of Things, you find sometimes that a Thing which seemed very Thingish inside you is quite different when it gets out into the open and has other people looking at it.


    A.A. Milne,

    "We cannot slaughter each other out of the human impasse"
  • Games People Play and Islam
     Reply #5 - December 19, 2014, 09:56 AM

    To be fair, I don't think schools are to get people to think for themselves, schools are also all about inculcating certain beliefs and ideals, and a specific brand of thinking into students.  Schools were never even created with the intention of making people think for themselves, they were created in order to appropriately socialise people into their respective class positions in life.  Which is beside the point to what you are trying to say anyway.  Grin


    Inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit.
  • Games People Play and Islam
     Reply #6 - December 19, 2014, 01:38 PM

    Quote
    The name of this game is “Uproar“: “Father comes home from work and finds fault with daughter, who answers impudently; or daughter may make the first move by being impudent, whereupon father finds fault. Their voices rise, and the clash becomes more acute. The outcome depends on who has the initiative. There are three possibilities: a) father retires to his bedroom and slams the door; b) daughter retires to her bedroom and slams the door; c) both retire to their respective bedrooms and slam the doors. In any case, the end of a game of Uproar is marked by a slamming door. Uproar offers a distressing but effective solution to the sexual problems that arise between fathers and teen-age daughters in certain households. Often they can only live in the same house together if they are angry at each other, and the slamming doors emphasize for each the fact that they have separate bedrooms.”



    http://www.ericberne.com/kurt-vonnegut-review-of-games-people-play/





    to request that games be treated with the respect due, say, a time bomb in need of defusing. Possible endings for some include divorce, murder and suicide.

     I need advice on trying to spend the night with my BF...suggestions please Reply #10 - Today at 02:02 AM Thanks for your help everyone...in reply to Moi...in my culture a woman should not be sexually active until marriage...my parents would kill me if they knew I was having sex...not an exaggeration...


    From thread here.

    Imagine Islam - and other religions - not as cultures or belief systems but as games, with rules.  Don't use your left hand to eat, don't eat pork, pray five times a day....and you go to heaven.  A huge lifetime game of snakes and ladders.

    One in which others do kill you or chop off your hand or flog you for breaking the rules like girls attending schools or giving out polio vaccines.

    And just say, umm, I'm not playing today.....

    When you are a Bear of Very Little Brain, and you Think of Things, you find sometimes that a Thing which seemed very Thingish inside you is quite different when it gets out into the open and has other people looking at it.


    A.A. Milne,

    "We cannot slaughter each other out of the human impasse"
  • 1« Previous thread | Next thread »