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Theme Changer

 Topic: ❀ Islam

 (Read 3271 times)
  • 1« Previous thread | Next thread »
  • ❀ Islam
     OP - December 10, 2014, 09:12 PM

    So since I told my mother I don't believe in Allah and whatever she's been telling me stories and trying to convince me Allah exists. (I regret telling her how I felt now, because she just makes me feel worse and confused) She told me if I could provide her points she would believe that there is no Allah. I've hardly ever studied Islam so much to point out flaws or errors. The only reason I stopped believing was because I couldn't find the connection as a kid and didn't understand why dating and being homosexual was haram etc, but I can't tell her that or else she'll get the wrong impression. Do you guys have any points that Islam is false?

    Her points where,

    ❀ Khana Qaba is in the center of the world.  (Allah made his house in the center of the world!)
    ❀ Muhammed splitting the moon.
    ❀ Muhammed predicting airplanes were going to be created in the future.
    ❀ Muhammed predicting gay marriages.
    ❀ Allah controls the time of day. (Controls the moon and sun, who else controls it?)
    ❀ Science can't save people from dying. (If you're 60, science can't make you 61.)
    ❀ Science has proved things that are already in the quran. (Sky is made of seven layers, etc)
    ❀ Past holy books all connect to each other. (Bible mentions another prophet, blah blah and so on)
    ❀ Muhammed stated he was the last prophet to come and after several years no one has claimed to be a prophet.
    ❀ I forgot what person said this in Islam, but according to my mother, they said that in every house in the world will have a 'Satan' and that 'Satan' will be called 'Antenna' (Yes, the thing you use to watch Television) She said every language in the world, the word Antenna is the same/similar.


    I forgot what else she said, she told me so many stories (that did actually get me kind of thinking) but they sound so dumb.
    I told her it's not a phase and she says when I get older I'll understand and that she's educated enough not to believe fake things.

    Bad news is:
    You cannot make people like, love, understand, validate,
    accept, or be nice to you. You can't control them either.
    Good news is:
    It doesn't matter.
  • ❀ Islam
     Reply #1 - December 10, 2014, 09:23 PM

    ❀ Khana Qaba is in the center of the world.  (Allah made his house in the center of the world!) No it is not.
    ❀ Muhammed splitting the moon. This is a miracle claim, we do not have any eye witness accounts of such an act
    ❀ Muhammed predicting airplanes were going to be created in the future. We need a source for this
    ❀ Muhammed predicting gay marriages. We need a source for this
    ❀ Allah controls the time of day. (Controls the moon and sun, who else controls it?)  No evidence for this
    ❀ Science can't save people from dying. (If you're 60, science can't make you 61.) Science has saved many people from dying, and prolonged their lives, there is no evidence that Allah has saved anyone
    ❀ Science has proved things that are already in the quran. (Sky is made of seven layers, etc) Are there 7 layers? Quran says there are seven heavens, not layers
    ❀ Past holy books all connect to each other. (Bible mentions another prophet, blah blah and so on) That is because they copied each other
    ❀ Muhammed stated he was the last prophet to come and after several years no one has claimed to be a prophet.  Many people have claimed to be prophets, there is the Baathi prophet for example, and many Iranian Zoroastrians claimed prophethood after Muhammad, even in Muhammad's own lifetime many other people claimed to be prophets
    ❀ I forgot what person said this in Islam, but according to my mother, they said that in every house in the world will have a 'Satan' and that 'Satan' will be called 'Antenna' (Yes, the thing you use to watch Television) She said every language in the world, the word Antenna is the same/similar. Antenna is Satan? Not everyone has a tv in their home anyway

  • ❀ Islam
     Reply #2 - December 10, 2014, 09:25 PM

    Most of those points have been thoroughly refuted on this forum. The rest really don't warrant a response.

    It is impossible to give absolute proof that any God does not exist. That is no reason to believe in any sort of God. If you can't prove the Hindu gods do not exist, will she believe in them too?

    My Christian dad was talking to me in the same way when I said that I am agnostic. People thoroughly steeped in religion have false perceptions about what atheism/agnosticism is.

    "I moreover believe that any religion that has anything in it that shocks the mind of a child, cannot be a true system."
    -Thomas Paine
  • ❀ Islam
     Reply #3 - December 10, 2014, 09:31 PM

    So since I told my mother I don't believe in Allah and whatever she's been telling me stories and trying to convince me Allah exists. (I regret telling her how I felt now, because she just makes me feel worse and confused) She told me if I could provide her points she would believe that there is no Allah. I've hardly ever studied Islam so much to point out flaws or errors. The only reason I stopped believing was because I couldn't find the connection as a kid and didn't understand why dating and being homosexual was haram etc, but I can't tell her that or else she'll get the wrong impression. Do you guys have any points that Islam is false?

    Her points where,

    ❀ Khana Qaba is in the center of the world.  (Allah made his house in the center of the world!)
    ❀ Muhammed splitting the moon.
    ❀ Muhammed predicting airplanes were going to be created in the future.
    ❀ Muhammed predicting gay marriages.
    ❀ Allah controls the time of day. (Controls the moon and sun, who else controls it?)
    ❀ Science can't save people from dying. (If you're 60, science can't make you 61.)
    ❀ Science has proved things that are already in the quran. (Sky is made of seven layers, etc)
    ❀ Past holy books all connect to each other. (Bible mentions another prophet, blah blah and so on)
    ❀ Muhammed stated he was the last prophet to come and after several years no one has claimed to be a prophet.
    ❀ I forgot what person said this in Islam, but according to my mother, they said that in every house in the world will have a 'Satan' and that 'Satan' will be called 'Antenna' (Yes, the thing you use to watch Television) She said every language in the world, the word Antenna is the same/similar.


    I forgot what else she said, she told me so many stories (that did actually get me kind of thinking) but they sound so dumb.
    I told her it's not a phase and she says when I get older I'll understand and that she's educated enough not to believe fake things.


    ❀ Khana Qaba is in the center of the world.  (Allah made his house in the center of the world!

    On what basis? Latitude+Longitude , GPS co-ordinates (Britain made Lat and Long, GPS (USA).

    Centre of the World planet wise is the core of the Earth.

    ❀ Muhammed splitting the moon.

    Evidence from people that have landed on the moon/studied it for it having been split? Physics explainations for this, crashing asteroids and gravitational pulls during the making of the Moon.

    ❀ Muhammed predicting airplanes were going to be created in the future.

    Which verses or hadiths used for this?

    ❀ Muhammed predicting gay marriages.

    Which verses or hadiths used for this too!?

    ❀ Allah controls the time of day. (Controls the moon and sun, who else controls it?)

    Laws of physics, different day lengths on other planets, the Earth being in the goldilocks zone for life therefore we evolved here and feel the time here. Evidence of evolution of humans and also of life formation from basic organic matter building blocks.

    ❀ Science can't save people from dying. (If you're 60, science can't make you 61.)

    Can to a degree, cancer treatments, advice for living better so do not age so quickly, but we are subject to the laws of physics and entropy.

    ❀ Science has proved things that are already in the quran. (Sky is made of seven layers, etc)

    Verses used?



    These are the atmospheric layers - I count only 6, 7 if outer space is included. The sky is however subject to the layers with both a night and a day sky due to refraction in the 6 layers etc.

    Also TheRationalisers work contacting scientists that have been quote-mined in support of this view where they categorically deny any miraculous stuff to do with qu'ranic predictions.

    https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLC0D4187BE2661850

    ❀ Past holy books all connect to each other. (Bible mentions another prophet, blah blah and so on)

    Easy to make a prediction of another 'prophet' - just depends who becomes accepted and the political climate surrounding it - wanting to create an empire based around something - right time in the right place

    ❀ Muhammed stated he was the last prophet to come and after several years no one has claimed to be a prophet.

    Joseph Smith, Ba'hai'ullah, Hubbard.

    ❀ I forgot what person said this in Islam, but according to my mother, they said that in every house in the world will have a 'Satan' and that 'Satan' will be called 'Antenna' (Yes, the thing you use to watch Television) She said every language in the world, the word Antenna is the same/similar.

    Just down to the popularity of English as a universal language due to colonial history. If was not the Brits it could have been the Spanish and you would be using a different word for the same thing.
  • ❀ Islam
     Reply #4 - December 10, 2014, 11:07 PM

    It's funny how Mohammed splitting the moon is considered an argument FOR Islam.  Somehow *all* of the other people on Earth seemed to miss the moon being split c. 630 AD.  They just didn't notice.

    It's interesting to me how there is a "flip point" for belief in miraculous things -- to the traditional believer, the unbelievable nature of the alleged fact is taken as proof that its source is divine (it cannot be explained!  So it's divine!).  Rather than the unbelievable nature being taken as proof that the 'fact' in question is, quite literally, unbelievable.  Meaning it is FALSE. 

    All of the arguments marshaled by the traditional believer in favor of divine authenticity -- wild miracles, impossible for an illiterate person to come up with this, Mohammed's divine numerology of 40 years to revelation, 10 years to hijra, 10 years from hijra to death -- instead of proof of divine origin, to a critical mind they stand as proof that this is just fiction.

    I suppose it is understandable that these things were and are believed by the faithful, but what never fails to amaze me is how many Western scholars have believed them as well.  Yeah, they throw out the miracles, but then they inexplicably keep the rest.  As if the miracles were the only part of the history that was being written for theological reasons ....
  • ❀ Islam
     Reply #5 - December 10, 2014, 11:10 PM

    She told me if I could provide her points she would believe that there is no Allah.


    That's not true. There is absolutely nothing you could say that would make her believe there is no Allah.

    I'm not saying your mother is lying. It's just that she herself doesn't realise that she cannot judge with an unbiased mind.

    My advice don't get into discussions. They only cause arguments and pain. Believe me I know. Been there and done that.

    Agree to differ.

    If she can't do that (which is most likely), then just smile and agree with her and say you were mistaken and avoid the subject and get on with your life.
  • ❀ Islam
     Reply #6 - December 11, 2014, 01:32 AM

    Logically, since the Earth is spherical you could either argue that everything is the centre of the world or that NOTHING is the centre of the world. Similarly physicists willa rgue that the Earth is not at the centre of the world but then again, depending upon your perspective, wherever you are will be the centre of the everything or choose any point in the universe and call it the centre.

    Think about it. If th Kaba is at the centre of the world that waht ever is directly opposite it is also at the centre of the world and therefore deserves equal merit.

    No free mixing of the sexes is permitted on these forums or via PM or the various chat groups that are operating.

    Women must write modestly and all men must lower their case.

    http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?425649-Have-some-Hayaa-%28modesty-shame%29-people!
  • ❀ Islam
     Reply #7 - December 11, 2014, 01:55 AM

    Logically, since the Earth is spherical you could either argue that everything is the centre of the world or that NOTHING is the centre of the world. Similarly physicists willa rgue that the Earth is not at the centre of the world but then again, depending upon your perspective, wherever you are will be the centre of the everything or choose any point in the universe and call it the centre.

    Think about it. If th Kaba is at the centre of the world that waht ever is directly opposite it is also at the centre of the world and therefore deserves equal merit.


    Like that big fake Big Ben wannabe building!
  • ❀ Islam
     Reply #8 - December 11, 2014, 01:57 AM

    Muhammed predicting gay marriages.


    what a thing to predict 1400 years ago.


    "we can smell traitors and country haters"


    God is Love.
    Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.

  • ❀ Islam
     Reply #9 - December 11, 2014, 01:58 AM

    She says that she is educated enough not to believe fake things yet believes in the Quran miracle nonsense....

    As has been stated already, it is best not to get into these discussions. If you are interested, these claims have been debunked numerous times here on the forum and elsewhere.
  • ❀ Islam
     Reply #10 - December 11, 2014, 02:08 AM

    what a thing to predict 1400 years ago.




    Did he predict IVF at the same time?
  • ❀ Islam
     Reply #11 - December 11, 2014, 07:08 AM

    Quote
    Khana Qaba is in the center of the world.  (Allah made his house in the center of the world!)

    How is it possible for a spherical entity to have a center that's on it's surface as opposed to it's core. If it is true, then surely whatever is the exact opposite of Mecca is also the center of the world, no?

    Quote
    Muhammed splitting the moon.

    Where was every non-islamic source at the time to prove this actually happened?

    Quote
    Muhammed predicting airplanes were going to be created in the future.

    Source please.

    Quote
    Muhammed predicting gay marriages.

    As above.

    Quote
    Allah controls the time of day. (Controls the moon and sun, who else controls it?)

    Even though this is dubious to begin with, why does it have to be the Islamic god which does this? Why can't be the Christian god, or the Jewish one, or the Sikh one etc, or a Deistic god with no association to any religion. This is hardly proof that Islam is true.

    Quote
    ❀ Science can't save people from dying. (If you're 60, science can't make you 61.)

    No, but science is doing the best it can. I don't think reciting quran verses over the sick would have much of an effect either.

    Quote
    ❀ Science has proved things that are already in the quran. (Sky is made of seven layers, etc)

    I'd have to say it's disproved a lot more than it's proved.  Sun sets in a muddy spring, Stars are to be thrown at devils, moon is a source of light etc.

    Quote
    ❀ Past holy books all connect to each other. (Bible mentions another prophet, blah blah and so on)

    It's one of those patterns you can only really see if you're looking for it.

    Quote
    ❀ Muhammed stated he was the last prophet to come and after several years no one has claimed to be a prophet.

    Bahá'u'lláh, Guru Nanak, Joseph Smith, that Australian geezer who claimed to be Jesus...

    Quote
    ❀ I forgot what person said this in Islam, but according to my mother, they said that in every house in the world will have a 'Satan' and that 'Satan' will be called 'Antenna' (Yes, the thing you use to watch Television) She said every language in the world, the word Antenna is the same/similar.

    Considering that it's an entirely different language, it doesn't really matter how similar the words sound.
  • ❀ Islam
     Reply #12 - January 21, 2015, 04:34 PM

    ❀ Muhammed splitting the moon.


    What? I seriously don't understand this. The moon isn't splitted, so he hasn't done it.
    So what's that for an argument?
  • ❀ Islam
     Reply #13 - January 21, 2015, 05:37 PM

    ❀ Khana Qaba is in the center of the world.  (Allah made his house in the center of the world!)


    No, it's not. If you look at the timezones map the center of the world would be somewhere in Algeria. 



    And it always depends on where on earth you live. Chinese people see China as the center of the world.
    The world is round so you can't say to any city that it would be the center of the world.
  • ❀ Islam
     Reply #14 - January 21, 2015, 05:56 PM

    No, it's not. If you look at the timezones map the center of the world would be somewhere in Algeria. 

    (Clicky for piccy!)

    And it always depends on where on earth you live. Chinese people see China as the center of the world.
    The world is round so you can't say to any city that it would be the center of the world.

      well let me put this pic here ..you can move the pointer around on that equator




    the real center of the sphere is too hot.. only Allah and other religious heavens and heaven dwellers can live there

    Do not let silence become your legacy.. Question everything   
    I renounced my faith to become a kafir, 
    the beloved betrayed me and turned in to  a Muslim
     
  • ❀ Islam
     Reply #15 - January 28, 2015, 10:28 AM

    It is impossible to give absolute proof that any God does not exist. That is no reason to believe in any sort of God. If you can't prove the Hindu gods do not exist, will she believe in them too?


    That's the one that'll do it. If it can be done at all.

    Possibly aided by "Anything that can be believed without any actual evidence can be ignored for the same reason."
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