Freethinkers of Medieval Islam and Surah 4:89

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- ZombieJesus
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Freethinkers of Medieval Islam and Surah 4:89
OP - November 22, 2014, 12:20 PM

Hello, I recently learned of a book called Freethinkers of Medieval Islam, and it sounds quite interesting to me, but it's out of print. Sadly, I cannot find an ebook, anywhere, either. Does anyone know where this book can be found in some sort of ebook format?

Also, I was discussing what Islam says on apostates recently with a couple Muslims. One person, who was a Sunni Muslim, after a lot of dialogue, eventually admitted that apostates should face execution, and that it was their fault for joining the religion in the first place. Another person, a Shia Muslim, told me that he disregards the Hadith, and says that death for apostates can't be found in the Quran. I asked him about Surah 4:89, but he claimed that given the context it doesn't call for the death of apostates, just "hypocrites who betrayed Muhammad." After looking at the surrounding verses, I'm not so sure anymore, so I'm here to ask former Muslims whether or not the Quran supports the execution of apostates.
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Freethinkers of Medieval Islam and Surah 4:89
Reply #1 - November 22, 2014, 12:43 PM

In the Quran, there's nothing explicitly saying that you should kill all apostates. Some will argue you were only supposed to kill the ones that posed a threat and that this is outdated now (of course this is silly) because it was only really necessary in the beginning of Islam when it was still getting established and protecting the community was a priority. I've also heard some argue that disbelief was fine as long as they kept the disbelief to themselves and submitted to Islamic law.

The problem with apostasy in the Quran is the same problem we have with pretty much everything in the Quran, where it is so vague, but does promote hatred and suspense of others, does a great job of dehumanizing anyone who isn't the Muslim man, and demands punishments and violence. This combination makes the Quran complicit in every execution of an apostate that it inspired.

We have the same problem with beating wives in the Quran. It says you can hit her. Good Muslims nowadays hasten to add, "Lightly, though," but the Quran does not say lightly, and, therefore, there's been a ton of men since the start of Islam who have beaten the hell out of their wives who got to point to this verse and receive its protection.

Long story short, if the Quran mentions punishing someone for something and is not clear on the details, almost anything that happens after it by someone trying to operate within the confines of that book's teachings has been inspired by it. And God would have known how humans would have reacted to those passages, so he must have intentionally kept them so dangerously vague, otherwise he would have afforded apostates and women and homosexuals and all these other people that only recently have modern Muslims tried to swear are respected in Islam more protection and more dignity.
- TheDashingRabbit
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Freethinkers of Medieval Islam and Surah 4:89
Reply #2 - November 22, 2014, 02:18 PM

If the Quran was meant as a rule book by allah he did an extremely shitty job of writing it.

Maybe he should have hired a lawyer to make sure the sentences were ironclad and there was no room for loopholes.

In my opinion a life without curiosity is not a life worth living
- Tonyt
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Freethinkers of Medieval Islam and Surah 4:89
Reply #3 - November 22, 2014, 02:24 PM

Hire a lawyer, rofl. Good one.
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