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 Topic: Atheism is not a solution for every mankind (?)

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  • Atheism is not a solution for every mankind (?)
     OP - November 12, 2014, 01:49 PM
    Greetings my dearest CEMB members, i want to rant a little bit here since i had this tense debate with a so called hardcore/new atheist (he claimed himself as an anti-theist atheist ex-christian).

    so the debate begun when he generalize the whole Islam and Muslim community as a bunch of savages-7th century-people that wants to bring our civilization back to the ancient age. and i of course i strongly disagree with him. Shortly, i told him about the diversity of theology within Islam itself and how most Muslim doesnt really care about their religion either (based on my observation encountered with tons of muslims), even there are devout Muslims, doesnt mean they tend to become ISIS, Al-Qaeda or any form of radical Islam.

    but eventually he insisted that Islam is an absolute danger that has to get rid off from this world once and for all, and that includes the radical muslims which he claimed make up to 50% of the total adherents (50% of 1.6 Billion). Crazy right? or its just me?

    is this kind of view are common among atheist community? do atheists (especially ex-muslims) really believe that Islam or religion in general is an absolute danger for modern civilization? personally i dont think so. because i've met too many devout religious people that hardly i can count from every religion (hindu, islam, buddhism, christianity, ethnic religion, etc). these people believes in non-sense (for me) but it does encourage them to become a better person. it prevents them to kill themselves due to stress life they have. it can make them smile while facing a hardship in their life.

    i dont think becoming an atheist means we immune from bigotry. just like becoming a religious one doesnt automatically makes them a close-minded savage barbaric person.
  • Atheism is not a solution for every mankind (?)
     Reply #1 - November 12, 2014, 01:55 PM
    OMG! i post this thread in the wrong place!! im very sorry about this, can admin or moderator move the thread to The Lounge please??

    once again im sorry  Cry Cry Cry Cry Cry Cry
    forgive my stupidity Cry Cry Cry Cry Cry Cry
  • Atheism is not a solution for every mankind (?)
     Reply #2 - November 12, 2014, 02:17 PM
    His views respresent his views.

    Being ana atheist means you do not believe in God. That is all. You can be atheist and sexist, racist, paedophile, murderer or slave owner. Any those things. Being an atheist mean that you have the potential to say and do stupid things minus the theological justification.
    No free mixing of the sexes is permitted on these forums or via PM or the various chat groups that are operating.

    Women must write modestly and all men must lower their case.

    http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?425649-Have-some-Hayaa-%28modesty-shame%29-people!
  • Atheism is not a solution for every mankind (?)
     Reply #3 - November 12, 2014, 02:20 PM
    So what if he is an atheist?
     Does being an atheist define me? NO
    Yes, I believe Islam in itself is a danger to society, but that does not mean that every Muslim on earth can be categorized as a barbaric person. Every muslim person I meet has their own version of Islam, although there are general rules that most of them follow and agree on.

    But I also believe that you do not need religion to become a better person or feel better about yourself, it is just delusional.  
  • Atheism is not a solution for every mankind (?)
     Reply #4 - November 12, 2014, 02:59 PM
    Quote from: Indostic on November 12, 2014, 01:55 PM
    OMG! i post this thread in the wrong place!! im very sorry about this, can admin or moderator move the thread to The Lounge please??

    once again im sorry  Cry Cry Cry Cry Cry Cry
    forgive my stupidity Cry Cry Cry Cry Cry Cry


    Done. No worries Smiley
    He's no friend to the friendless
    And he's the mother of grief
    There's only sorrow for tomorrow
    Surely life is too brief
  • Atheism is not a solution for every mankind (?)
     Reply #5 - November 12, 2014, 03:08 PM
    Quote from: Jedi on November 12, 2014, 02:17 PM
    His views respresent his views.

    Being ana atheist means you do not believe in God. That is all. You can be atheist and sexist, racist, paedophile, murderer or slave owner. Any those things. Being an atheist mean that you have the potential to say and do stupid things minus the theological justification.


    Quote from: INcePtion on November 12, 2014, 02:20 PM
    So what if he is an atheist?
     Does being an atheist define me? NO
    Yes, I believe Islam in itself is a danger to society, but that does not mean that every Muslim on earth can be categorized as a barbaric person. Every muslim person I meet has their own version of Islam, although there are general rules that most of them follow and agree on.

    But I also believe that you do not need religion to become a better person or feel better about yourself, it is just delusional.  


    why i put "atheism is not a solution for every mankind" on the tittle is simply because i think not everyone can bare the truth that there is no divine being to rely on. for these people, believing in God is somehow the only way to strengthened them to live this "cruel" life. what would you do if you meet these people? are we gonna say "you're being poisoned by religion and clearly you need a rehab for that" ?

    sure i believe mankind should reduce the involvement of religion in public area such as government, education, etc. but to eradicate it completely? any thoughts?
  • Atheism is not a solution for every mankind (?)
     Reply #6 - November 12, 2014, 03:18 PM
    Quote from: Indostic on November 12, 2014, 03:08 PM
    why i put "atheism is not a solution for every mankind" on the tittle is simply because i think not everyone can bare the truth that there is no divine being to rely on. for these people, believing in God is somehow the only way to strengthened them to live this "cruel" life. what would you do if you meet these people? are we gonna say "you're being poisoned by religion and clearly you need a rehab for that" ?


    If their life is so cruel that the only way they can bear living is to believe in something that isn't there then clearly they have bigger problems than a theological debate. But continuing to delude themselves is not going to help them get a better life.

    Quote from: Indostic on November 12, 2014, 03:08 PM
    sure i believe mankind should reduce the involvement of religion in public area such as government, education, etc. but to eradicate it completely? any thoughts?


    Most atheists that I know support freedom of expression, including religion. I don't think I know of anyone that wants some kind of forced government suppression of religion, if that is what you mean by "eradication".
  • Atheism is not a solution for every mankind (?)
     Reply #7 - November 12, 2014, 03:24 PM
    But whether or not religion has a positive effect on some people is an interesting question.

    I.e. are there any people that would commit horrible crimes against other people, but are prevented from doing so because of a fear of hell? Maybe there are a few people like that. It is hard to get any evidence of it though. It does seem that societies with less religion are less violent on the whole however.
  • Atheism is not a solution for every mankind (?)
     Reply #8 - November 12, 2014, 03:56 PM
    Quote from: Tonyt on November 12, 2014, 03:18 PM
    If their life is so cruel that the only way they can bear living is to believe in something that isn't there then clearly they have bigger problems than a theological debate. But continuing to delude themselves is not going to help them get a better life.

    Most atheists that I know support freedom of expression, including religion. I don't think I know of anyone that wants some kind of forced government suppression of religion, if that is what you mean by "eradication".


    Quote from: Tonyt on November 12, 2014, 03:24 PM
    But whether or not religion has a positive effect on some people is an interesting question.

    I.e. are there any people that would commit horrible crimes against other people, but are prevented from doing so because of a fear of hell? Maybe there are a few people like that. It is hard to get any evidence of it though. It does seem that societies with less religion are less violent on the whole however.


    to be frank, i stumbled upon this kind of prevent suicide supports group. most of them are my age (20's), i hardly can see if they have a terrible life, but they TRIED or at least had an intention to commit suicide but fortunately, they didnt.

    when i talk to them and ask why would they do such horrible things, their answers are vary, some cant deal with bullying, some with parental issues (parent's fight, divorce, abandonement, etc), loneliness, etc. but what i found interesting is, all of them feels that they are not alone to deal with the hardships, they still have God to rely on and they believe, that God will help them, strengthened them, and guide them to become a better person. These people exist! they know im an atheist and they admit they cant prove that god exist, but the thoughts that god loves them is enough to prevent them to commit suicide.

    imagine if these people are atheist....
  • Atheism is not a solution for every mankind (?)
     Reply #9 - November 12, 2014, 04:07 PM
    Well then yes, I would avoid talking about religion with those folks. If that belief is going to ease their suffering then it is a good thing. But it is not addressing the root cause of their suffering.

    With people that are already in middle age or older, and have a strong belief in God, I try not to blow their bubble. They've already lived most of their life with that belief, so why rock their world view?

    But with younger folks that have their life ahead of them, sometimes it is good for them to see things from other perspectives. Sometimes it is the strict religious beliefs that are preventing them from breaking free and really living their lives to the fullest. If you believe in a perfect afterlife then why strive to make this life better for yourself? That religious safety blanket may be preventing them from leaving an abusive relationship, getting out and meeting new friends, working hard to get a better education, etc. etc.

    But if someone is at the point of suicide, it is probably better to tread carefully...
  • Atheism is not a solution for every mankind (?)
     Reply #10 - November 12, 2014, 04:20 PM
    There's no need to eradicate religion. Let people believe in their fairy tales, if that makes them feel better.
  • Atheism is not a solution for every mankind (?)
     Reply #11 - November 12, 2014, 05:10 PM
    Quote from: Indostic on November 12, 2014, 03:56 PM
    but the thoughts that god loves them is enough to prevent them to commit suicide.

    imagine if these people are atheist....


    And there are people out there who do not believe in God who do not commit suicide. So what?

    I dare say that everyone is on the bipolar spectrum and has a 'tipping point', yet everyone does not require a belief in a loving God to rpevent them from taking their own life.

    What is the point that is supposed to be made? People have to learn to accept the consequences of their actions, their situation and learn to love themselves. With that comes the acceptance that it's a long, painful road. If making some fairytale up helps you then that's your choice but I'm not going to advocate such a course of action because it may cause more harm than good.

    Keep in mind that religion causes more psychological/intellectual harm than good.
    No free mixing of the sexes is permitted on these forums or via PM or the various chat groups that are operating.

    Women must write modestly and all men must lower their case.

    http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?425649-Have-some-Hayaa-%28modesty-shame%29-people!
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