Feminism or Islam - liberation of women :D

1« Previous thread | Next thread »
- Cornflower
- Ex-Muslim
- offline
Feminism or Islam - liberation of women :D
OP - November 08, 2014, 03:49 PM

Ok so I got this invitation from god knows who to a Muslim Debate Initiative event, and I was reminded by something that happened not long before I left Islam. One of iEras Swedish "foot soldiers" (actually employed by them as a "researcher) was concerned about my increasingly (unIslamic) feminist views,so he sent me "a really good" article based on a debate Fatimah Barakatullah had about whether or not women need feminism (I won't even go into the shit that woman tried to pull, suffice to say is that I didn't know whether or not to mockingly laugh at it or cry due the sheer stupidity of her arguments). Of course in order to "set me straight" and not get "too much feminist" and lose sight of allah's path. Anyway

Quote
Does Islam posit a viable way of life and solutions for women? Do women need feminism to formulate, understand, and support their position in society? Does a hybrid solution between Islam and feminism really make sense?

What's the definition of "solution for women" ? .

"The healthiest people I know are those who are the first to label themselves fucked up." - three
- xtremestr
- Devil's Advocate
- Ex-Muslim
- offline
Feminism or Islam - liberation of women :D
Reply #1 - November 08, 2014, 04:14 PM

Heh, my sister's a (somewhat) hardcore feminist and I remember how much my mother flipped her shit when she told her she was considering not having children. Also,

Quote
Do women need feminism to formulate, understand, and support their position in society?

Is it just me, or is the question worded in remarkably cringe-worthy way?

أشهد أن لا إله
- billy
- Pub Regular
- Tripitaka ~ Closet Juice
- offline
Feminism or Islam - liberation of women :D
Reply #2 - November 08, 2014, 04:27 PM

Barakatullah and iERA are pretty much the vanguard of hardcore Wahabism in Europe, in terms of their evangelism. They ideologically hate secularism, liberalism and feminism, because its precepts are contrary to the Islam they promote and make dawah for.

This is the Islam of Saudi Arabia, the morality and ethics of Salafism, being asserted in modern secular Europe. Of course it seems strange. Every step forward European civilisation has made since the dark ages, and since the darkness of the 20th Century totalitarianism - secularism, liberalism, human rights, equality for women, gay rights, freedom of conscience, freedom to leave religion, freedom to 'blaspheme' against religion - all of this is opposed by iERA and Barakatullah, who believe that we live in a society of darkness, and Islam is the light, the Islam of women wearing facial veils and Wahabism bringing civilisation to barbarians. That is the basic premise of what they teach, and why they make dawah.

"we can smell traitors and country haters"

Quote from: arX on May 01, 2011, 03:33 AM
God is Love.
Love is Blind. Stevie Wonder is blind. Therefore, Stevie Wonder is God.
- Cornflower
- Ex-Muslim
- offline
Feminism or Islam - liberation of women :D
Reply #3 - November 08, 2014, 06:00 PM

Why don't they go to the Land of Sand then if it's so awesome. Or if it's infested my fahsha and fasad, they can go and evangelize there. Oh wait, only secular democracy gives you the freedom to do that (which is of course evil and must be eliminated) *double facepalm".

Also, my marriage was arranged and I was pressured into it, but before it I was vehemently opposed to getting married. I turned down every single proposal and suggestion from my "wali" and even said straight out that I'm not interested and that my goal in life is far away from marriage and having children. It was not met with understanding I might say

And yes, not only is the question cringe worthy, but it's completely wrong. You don't even understand what feminism entail if you word a question like that.

"The healthiest people I know are those who are the first to label themselves fucked up." - three
- osmanthus
- Cave dwelling
- Pub Regular
- Fingerer of piglets
- offline
Feminism or Islam - liberation of women :D
Reply #4 - November 08, 2014, 07:53 PM

Quote from: Cornflower on November 08, 2014, 03:49 PM
What's the definition of "solution for women" ? .

It's sorta like "the Final Solution", but without the gas. You just get exterminated from public life.

Devious, treacherous, murderous, neanderthal, sub-human of the West.
- serpentofeden
- Pub Regular
- offline
Feminism or Islam - liberation of women :D
Reply #5 - November 27, 2014, 01:32 AM

http://www.eventbrite.co.uk/e/debate-islam-or-feminism-which-one-can-truly-liberate-women-tickets-8800678065?aff=estw

this friday in central London !
- Amoku
- Ex-Muslim
- offline
Feminism or Islam - liberation of women :D
Reply #6 - December 04, 2014, 07:31 PM

I went.

Wow wow wow.

Zara's arguments: Strawman, strawman, anecdote, misinformation, strawman, lie, irrelevant stat, straw-feminist, anecdote, Islam, Allah
- serpentofeden
- Pub Regular
- offline
Feminism or Islam - liberation of women :D
Reply #7 - December 04, 2014, 11:10 PM

Julie Bindel did badly from what I heard. She just made the broad statement that "all religions are bad for women" when she really could have gone on the offensive and give numerous examples of islamic scriptures which specifically subjugate women. You don't even need to be an islamic scholar to do this, spending 10-20 mins of research on the net is all Bindel had to do. You could for example mention wife beating is islamic scriptures, how women can't go out alone without mehram, how head covering us compulsary etc in demonstrating islam is antithetical to the concept of female liberation.

MDI, Andalusi and Faris have been very sly in holding this debate against a very weak opponent to make it look like there sides argument is better.
- Amoku
- Ex-Muslim
- offline
Feminism or Islam - liberation of women :D
Reply #8 - December 04, 2014, 11:29 PM

I agree. She could have done better. She was a bit passive and digressed into her own personal experiences a bit too much. As is the case with a lot of these debates, the whole thing is skewed. The issue with Blindel attacking scripture is that Zara was basically saying "this is our place, deal with it". She's a good debater, even if her points are naff.
1« Previous thread | Next thread »